Why did Tullius bring Thalmor Elenwen to the Greybeards truce meeting

[Anton Volkihar]

What was the point in him bringing her to the meeting? Even he cant stand her and just because I told her to leave the Imperals think I support Ufric when actually support the Imperals but the Thalmor had no place there.What was he trying to gain?

 

[Majir-Dar]

He had to bring her or she would have made a fuss. His hands were tied, I doubt he actually cared that you told her to leave, he just needed to keep appearances. Being an Imperial general is as political as it is technical. You need to know that if Elenwen wanted, she could have General Tullius demoted.

 

[Phantom]

And when it comes to matters of the Empire, the Thalmor do have every right to be there. They basically have the Empire under their control, because the Empire cannot afford another war. They're at the Thalmor's mercy, peace is better than being destroyed, even if that peace means that they are forced to follow the whims of the Thalmor.

 

[High King of Skyrim]

Yes, politics. Very boring, very spurious and cumbersome. The Empire are compelled to allow the Thalmor at the table. Whilst the Empire regains it's military might in preparation for another war with the Thalmor, an uneasy peace is required in the interim. Things like inviting Elenwen to the meeting are mere formalities that unfortunately, must be done to assure the Thalmor remain onside.
I wouldn't agree that the Thalmor are controlling the Empire but I would suggest that the Thalmor hold more cards and therefor, slightly more influence over how the Empire handles certain issues. Especially issues pertaining to the political knife-edge that is the civil war in Skyrim.

 

[shadowkitty]

Did he bring her? Or did she demand to be brought? lol

 

[Cylos]

Bringing her along keeps the relationship at its best possible level, as it seems that the Empire isn't trying to undercut the Thalmor.
-Not bring Elenwen and have a huge army have a temper tantrum and try to destroy mankind
or
-Bring her along and cope with her

 

[Raijin]

The Empire is on a tight end leash of their elven masters. They seem very obedient at best.

Elenwen trained Tullius to be a "good" boy.

"The Thalmor invite me here to remind everyone that they can tell the Empire what to do."

 

[High King of Skyrim]

Did he bring her? Or did she demand to be brought? lol

Good question, I'd think the latter but who knows?

 

[UnfaithfulServant]

What part in the game is this?

 

[DustyMayFire]

What part in the game is this?

If you haven't defeated Alduin yet and you're somewhat far in the Civil War quest line, the two sides meet at High Hrothgar to try to negotiate a stand still until Alduin is dealt with.

 

[shadowkitty]

What part in the game is this?

It's the peace treaty during the Main quest. But sometimes you can avoid doing it by completing the Civil war quest before you go any further with the main quest.

 

[Dagmar]

What was the point in him bringing her to the meeting? Even he cant stand her and just because I told her to leave the Imperals think I support Ufric when actually support the Imperals but the Thalmor had no place there.What was he trying to gain?

If you actually listen to what the NPC's are saying at the peace negotiations you would know that Elenwen is there to ensure that nothing agreed to at the meeting violates the terms of the White-Gold Concordat. The last time a faction within the Empire negotiated with Ulfric for something that is exactly what happened so it's not unreasonable for her to request that she be included in the delegation.

General Tullius may not like her presence either but it's probable that he knew that her presence would provoke Ulfric (as implied by Ulfric's dialogue). Oddly, her presence prompts Ulfic to demand her removal from the meeting which in turn constitutes an automatic concession on the Empire's side of negotiations notwithstanding that Ulfric gains no actual advantage for the Stormcloaks in creating a situation where he then must give something far more valuable to the Empire in return (an entire Hold).

I was rather baffled by such ineptitude on Ulfric's part the first time I did this part of the storyline as all he did was gain one Hold (the Reach) and Elenwen leaving the meeting in exchange for two Holds. The one Hold he gets is then completely isolated and cutoff from the rest of the Stormcloaks if he is forced to cede the Pale to the Imperials while he loses a seaport in the same act. It's truly a mind boggling failure in diplomacy on Uflric's part, and all to secure something that's meaningless as Tullius is going to report the results of the negotiation to Elenwen anyway.

 

[shadowkitty]

I always thought the whole treaty was an epic fail for both parties. Stormcloaks especially. It was tedious sitting there listening to it.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The White-Gold Concordat was violated when Ulfric demanded terms from the Empire during the Markarth Incident. She would be there to make sure the treaty is no violated again.

He had to bring her or she would have made a fuss. His hands were tied, I doubt he actually cared that you told him to leave, he just needed to make appearances. Being an Imperial general is as political as it is technical. You need to know that if Elenwen wanted, she could have General Tullius demoted.

She can't have him demoted. The Thalmor have no pull in matters regarding the Legions, the Imperial Legion has authority.

"Even if we had a prisoner by that name, the only way he'd be released is by order of the Imperial Legion." - Thalmor, Northwatch Guard.

Tullius isn't in Skyrim just as a Legion General, he was made the Military Governor of Skyrim during the unrest. Tullius represents the authority of the Emperor himself, politically and military.

Elisif: "Again? He can't simply cancel an appointment with the Jarl! He serves in my capital city!"
Falk: "I'm afraid he can. His authority comes from the emperor. Who you also serve, technically."

The Empire is on a tight end leash of their elven masters. They seem very obedient at best.

Elenwen trained Tullius to be a "good" boy.

"The Thalmor invite me here to remind everyone that they can tell the Empire what to do."

"I would refuse, but I don't want to jeopardize the peace between us."

Tullius is in Skyrim on behalf of the Emperor himself. What Tullius does reflects the Empire, he speaks for the Emperor. Tullius doesn't want to cause a political incident it seems.

"Most of the Legion is tied down on the border with the Aldmeri Dominion. The Emperor can't afford to risk weakening Cyrodiil's defenses. From the Imperial City, our war here is just a sideshow. An interlude before the main event against the Thalmor resumes."

Not really words of an Empire on a tight leash.

And when it comes to matters of the Empire, the Thalmor do have every right to be there. They basically have the Empire under their control, because the Empire cannot afford another war. They're at the Thalmor's mercy, peace is better than being destroyed, even if that peace means that they are forced to follow the whims of the Thalmor.

The Empire is preparing for another war. The Stormcloak rebellion is the Thalmor doing, the goal of the Thalmor is to weaken the Empire as much as they can so they can destroy them. The Empire is still a threat to the Aldmeri Dominion. One doesn't spend so much time sneaking about trying to destroy something they already control.

 

[Majir-Dar]

*Reads the response to his post with a migraine*

I... do... not... CARE.

*Rereads post*

You said what I was trying to say for the most part. When I said she could have him demoted I meant she could have him moved out of Skyrim at the very least. As for the Governor part of your response. I thought I already said that?

 

[DrunkenMage]

*Reads the response to his post with a migraine*

I... do... not... CARE.

*Rereads post*

You said what I was trying to say for the most part. When I said she could have him demoted I meant she could have him moved out of Skyrim at the very least. As for the Governor part of your response. I thought I already said that?

She can't have him moved out of Skyrim. The Emperor would recall him and he'd be replaced if he accepted certain terms, he says this when he calls the treaty unacceptable.

 

[Majir-Dar]

*Reads the response to his post with a migraine*

I... do... not... CARE.

*Rereads post*

You said what I was trying to say for the most part. When I said she could have him demoted I meant she could have him moved out of Skyrim at the very least. As for the Governor part of your response. I thought I already said that?

She can't have him moved out of Skyrim. The Emperor would recall him and he'd be replaced if he accepted certain terms, he says this when he calls the treaty unacceptable.

Ah, well then. I accept your argument and you have me bested. I thank you for broadening my knowledge of the Elder Scrolls world. Something that doesn't happen often.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The only way Elenwen could probably have him removed is if he granted Talos worship. That would cause a major political incident.

 

[High King of Skyrim]

DrunkenMage said: The Empire is preparing for another war. The Stormcloak rebellion is the Thalmor doing, the goal of the Thalmor is to weaken the Empire as much as they can so they can destroy them. The Empire is still a threat to the Aldmeri Dominion. One doesn't spend so much time sneaking about trying to destroy something they already control.

Whilst I agree that the Thalmor benefit the most from the rebellion, it is hardly their doing in my opinion. It is rather the result of strict laws being imposed on the people of Skyrim by the Imperial authorities therein. The fact the Thalmor operate throughout Skyrim, under Imperial law, adopting questionable tactics and of coarse the manipulation of the whole situation by none other than Jarl Ulfric. Ulfric spreads his anti-Imperial rhetoric, thus sowing the seeds of discontent amongst his countrymen, however, as I've indicated on numerous occasions, the Empire makes it easy for him by their perceived indifference of the plight of Skyrim's citizens. The history between Skyrim and elves is turbulent at best and thus requires special care in my opinion and the Thalmor roaming unchecked throughout Skyrim, although legal, has taken it's toll on some of Skyrim's citizens. It would appear Skyrim grows impatient for the second Great War, perhaps the Empire should act soon, or risk Skyrim renouncing them, thus destroying any hope they have of victory over the Dominion. That is what I believe is at the heart of this rebellion.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Whilst I agree that the Thalmor benefit the most from the rebellion, it is hardly their doing in my opinion. It is rather the result of strict laws being imposed on the people of Skyrim by the Imperial authorities therein. The fact the Thalmor operate throughout Skyrim, under Imperial law, adopting questionable tactics and of coarse the manipulation of the whole situation by none other than Jarl Ulfric. Ulfric spreads his anti-Imperial rhetoric, thus sowing the seeds of discontent amongst his countrymen, however, as I've indicated on numerous occasions, the Empire makes it easy for him by their perceived indifference of the plight of Skyrim's citizens. The history between Skyrim and elves is turbulent at best and thus requires special care in my opinion and the Thalmor roaming unchecked throughout Skyrim, although legal, has taken it's toll on some of Skyrim's citizens. It would appear Skyrim grows impatient for the second Great War, perhaps the Empire should act soon, or risk Skyrim renouncing them, thus destroying any hope they have of victory over the Dominion. That is what I believe is at the heart of this rebellion.

The White-Gold Concordat was poorly enforced during the twenty six years it has been in place. It wasn't the result of strict laws being imposed since the Empire was doing a poor job enforcing the ban on Talos.

"We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down." - Alvor

Also reading 'Flight from the Thalmor'

It was in one of these cities - Markarth, to be exact - where I made the conscious decision to defy the ban on Talos worship. And my defiance came in the form of - what else? - a song. For what bard who has spent time writing and rehearsing an original work can possible refrain from performing it? So perform it I did. Not once, not twice, but seven times. Once a day, for an entire week.

Hadrik Oaken-Heart was able to violate the terms of the treaty for seven days, in Markarth which is the headquarters of the Thalmor Justiciars, the group that enforces the ban of talos. This shows just how weak enforcement of the treaty was.

The Thalmor can't violate the treaty in front of the Empire. They're not allowed to simply do what they want, they make use of informants and khajiit assassins. The head of the Justiciars in Markarth can't even have one citizen arrested without evidence. Legion soldiers will attack the Thalmor if the try kill you.

The Civil War is indeed the Thalmor doing and what they intended to happen, they're also keeping it going. The Thalmor were at Helgan trying to save Ulfric Stormcloak from execution, his death would have made for a swift Imperial victory harming their overall position within Skyrim.

Ulfric Stormcloak is an asset to the Thalmor, knowing or unknowing. Ulfric instigating the Civil War is exactly what the Thalmor wanted.

"You realize this is exactly what they wanted." - Tullius
"What who wanted?" - Galmar
"The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion." - Tullius

"We're supposedly at peace now, but I put in to be stationed here to keep an eye on the Thalmor, I have a feeling they're behind this unrest here in Skyrim." - Legate Fasendil

Skyrim isn't the only province that has a history with Elves. The humans of Cyrodiil were enslaved and tortured by Elves, Cyrodiil itself has also clashed with the Aldmeri Dominion in the past during the Second and Third Empire's