What is going to happen to us console players when Online comes out?

[Dagmar]

seriously? lol thats ok m8, i am not going to copy paste all that, like i said believe what you want.. have you fellas ever considered the possibility that you might just be wrong about pc being this be all end all gaming beast you think it is?

There's nothing to consider. We're speaking from a position of knowledge while you're self-admittedly speaking from a position of complete ignorance.

It's an indisputable fact that anyone with decent knowledge for building a desktop PC or even custom ordering one can build or buy a custom ordered desktop for $1,400 that plays Oblivion and Skyrim flawlessly. You may as well try to argue that water isn't wet.

It's not as if you're going to pull a muscle using the cut and past feature of your computer. You just don't seem to want to know. It's your prerogative if you deliberately want to remain ignorant but the fact of the matter is that unless the $1,400 you paid was for a laptop instead of a desktop you got ripped off.

 

[Tyer032392]

seriously? lol thats ok m8, i am not going to copy paste all that, like i said believe what you want.. have you fellas ever considered the possibility that you might just be wrong about pc being this be all end all gaming beast you think it is? perhaps you just want it to be that so bad you're willing to believe it is no matter what, hey when i was a kid i used to hear genesis players argue over snes being better even when it was proven false before their very eyes.. trust me if you want to believe something bad enough you will, regardless of any facts that prove you wrong.. just something for u guys to think about.

Wrong or not, you are not being very cooperative. All we are trying to do, or at least me is trying to help you. It is not a matter of proving one person right or wrong, but getting to the bottom of what could possibly be giving you problems. And the DxDiag is just a tool that we use in the Computer Science/Engineering world to figure out problems. Furthermore, you are acting childish by thinking that all we are going to do is poke fun at you, or whatever you console players seem to think of us PC players. However, seeing how you prefer to be ignorant in terms of not even accepting out help, which is very foolish as some of us have far more experience with computers than your "mate" who works at Geeksquad. Just remember this, we do this as a hobby which means we are far more informed than those at Geeksquad who more or less just work and have very little understanding from the basics of what computers can do.

 

[ShangTsung]

Wrong or not, you are not being very cooperative. All we are trying to do, or at least me is trying to help you. It is not a matter of proving one person right or wrong, but getting to the bottom of what could possibly be giving you problems. And the DxDiag is just a tool that we use in the Computer Science/Engineering world to figure out problems. Furthermore, you are acting childish by thinking that all we are going to do is poke fun at you, or whatever you console players seem to think of us PC players.

i'm simply implying that you could be wrong when you badly wish to be right, it happens.. and the fact that i'm not going to copy paste an off topic book to skyrim forums has nothing to do with "not being cooperative" it simply means that someones opinion on the internet isn't that important to me.. as for "poking fun at me" i'm 32 yo m8, i haven't gotten upset over words on a computer screen since i was in high school.. sorry if i offended anyone, not sure what else to tell you.

 

[Tyer032392]

i'm simply implying that you could be wrong when you badly wish to be right, it happens.. and the fact that i'm not going to copy paste an off topic book to skyrim forums has nothing to do with "not being cooperative" it simply means that someones opinion on the internet isn't that important to me.. as for "poking fun at me" i'm 32 yo m8, i haven't gotten upset over words on a computer screen since i was in high school.. sorry if i offended anyone, not sure what else to tell you.

Believe me, I'm not offended. However, I must disagree with you in that the DxDiag is not a matter of opinion, it is fact.It is not going off topic neither, as it still deals with Skyrim, but that fact that the DxDiag will either prove what you are saying about your computer, or disprove. Oh well, I hope that you eventually figure out what is wrong, and as a suggestion, try taking your computer to office depot, they usually know far more about computers than GeekSquad does. I do have a few suggestions that I think may work, but am unsure.

1) Run an disk cleanup and disk defrag. It will relocate your files to make your computer run better.

2) Run an error checking. This usually takes forever to complete, but will search for any errors that are on your hard drive and either fix them, or alert you to them if it can't be fixed.

3) Just swallow your pride and post a DxDiag so we can actually see what is going on.

 

[Balerion Blackdread]

I hope you're not referring to the Geek Squad from Best Buy because those guys can be largely clueless about PCs.

Geek Squad "technicians" are completely clueless. There's no real technical experience required for the PC techs and the training is piss poor. If you're lucky enough to get someone who is technically proficient it's because they had training from elsewhere. Not only that, they've basically been trained to rip off PC customers by taking advantage of their ignorance. This has been common knowledge among those on PC boards and forums for years. 9 Confessions Of A Former Geek Squad Geek basically outlines how Geek Squad technicians are trained to be dishonest and milk an ignorant consumer for all they can. They've been caught time after time in undercover news investigations doing this:

He got ripped off.

 

[JClarke1953]

As far as the age of your computer? I saw you typed it was a couple of year's old?

I did a lot of PC work several year's ago for a store that sold only computer's, software and did R and R on them. The rule of thumb, at least here, is most computer's become "outdated" within 6-months. The hardware in them is constantly being upgraded and worked over. Remember how fast the multiple Core's came out after the dual-core CPU?

So, your 2-year old computer just might be too "old" as far as hardware is concerned, and to me, it sounds like you do need to build another, or at least, see what exactly might need to be replaced or upgraded. At least, it's what I did when I did gaming on mine.

And the "Geek Squad"? Lol! The "sales-personnel" know absolutely zip, and lie when they don't know. I went in to buy Flatscreen, and they were all over us to have them come and "calibrate" it. I called several manufacturers and they hooted and laughed about that, and told me the people at Best Buy are clueless. Then I called Best Buy corporate, and told them what lies their store's are telling.

 

[Gowsh]

I forget where I saw this but I believe I read something about there being an expressed interest to maintain the MMO and AND single player series. The MMO takes place a few hundred years in the past and is bound in chains by lore.

That's the most encouraging thing I've heard so far about the possible continuance of the 1-plqayer games.

While Beth. can set TES VI in any time period of Tamriel that they want, there's a significant precedent for moving ahead from the previous edition, even if it's only a couple of years.

 

[Dagmar]

As far as the age of your computer? I saw you typed it was a couple of year's old?

I did a lot of PC work several year's ago for a store that sold only computer's, software and did R and R on them. The rule of thumb, at least here, is most computer's become "outdated" within 6-months. The hardware in them is constantly being upgraded and worked over. Remember how fast the multiple Core's came out after the dual-core CPU?

Stores that try to push the concept that a computer becomes "outdated" in 6 months fall into the same Best Buy mentality of trying to take advantage of uninformed consumers.

Just because hardware manufacturers come out with better hardware in half year to year cycles doesn't mean that the hardware in a computer becomes obsolete in that time especially when some of the "new" and "improved" hardware is simply rebranded old hardware with 1 or 2 minor spec upgrades.

The fact that you used the increase in cores for CPU's as an example merely underscores the fact that hardware doesn't become obsolete that fast as quad cores have been around for years for desktops but most PC games continue to only require dual cores to play and many haven't been and aren't coded to take advantage of quad core technology.

If someone is charged $1,400 for a desktop PC custom built for gaming it should have high end hardware that can handle the demands of PC games for years. A desktop PC that can't should cost hundreds of dollars less than that.

 

[JClarke1953]

I merely stated the CPU as an example. Visual and sound hardware capabilities increased as well. They had no choice, as PC games were coming out with higher hardware requirement's to run them. I was building, then re-building PC's for at that time, serious PC gamer's because of that.

Each time a "piece" is improved, or a rising game comes out with higher visual, sound, memory and CPU requiremnet's, it all travel's, spreads. And we, the consumer, will pay for it.

 

[kyleekay]

While ShangTsung may not appreciate all of the information you guys are laying down here, I wanted to let you guys know I've found it super informative and I'm glad you've all contributed to the last few pages of this thread. Your expertise does not go unnoticed.

 

[Dagmar]

I merely stated the CPU as an example. Visual and sound hardware capabilities increased as well.

Capabilities going up doesn't equate to them being required to run applications well. System memory is a perfect example. The notion that a PC user other than a user equivalent to a professional running multiple applications from media and graphics suites would require even 8GB of RAM is absurd but PC retailers try to sell an 8-16GB configuration as if it's some kind of great benefit to general PC users or even gamers when it isn't. It's just selling them something they don't need. With RAM it's not that big a deal because it's so cheap nowadays but it can lull an ignorant consumer into thinking that they're getting something much better than what they're actually receiving.

..They had no choice, as PC games were coming out with higher hardware requirement's to run them.

This might have been true a decade or more ago but the pace of hardware capability development has long since outpaced the needs of PC applications including high end games. Driver development for components like video cards have also pushed the viable optimal lifespan of components forward.

By way of example an NVIDIA Geforce GTX 580 which could have been purchased 2 years ago for a rig that costs $1,400 can still run any game on the market today at high settings without issue. It certainly could easily run Oblivion flawlessy at the highest settings, with ENB and the most demanding graphics enhancement mods available for the game.

Performance junkies that some might categorize as "serious" PC Gamers are ill suited as a metric for what's required for a great gaming PC. You're talking about people who buy whatever's the latest gaming hardware component to squeeze out 5-15 more frames when they already have frame rates that exceed what the human eye can distinguish by over 3 times.

That's not a metric to use for how long a PC remains optimal for gaming. It's a metric to measure epeni size for guys with too much money to care or too little knowledge to realize they're getting a poor return on their investment by upgrading in 6 month cycles.

 

[ShangTsung]

Stores that try to push the concept that a computer becomes "outdated" in 6 months fall into the same Best Buy mentality of trying to take advantage of uninformed consumers.

Just because hardware manufacturers come out with better hardware in half year to year cycles doesn't mean that the hardware in a computer becomes obsolete in that time especially when some of the "new" and "improved" hardware is simply rebranded old hardware with 1 or 2 minor spec upgrades.

The fact that you used the increase in cores for CPU's as an example merely underscores the fact that hardware doesn't become obsolete that fast as quad cores have been around for years for desktops but most PC games continue to only require dual cores to play and many haven't been and aren't coded to take advantage of quad core technology.

If someone is charged $1,400 for a desktop PC custom built for gaming it should have high end hardware that can handle the demands of PC games for years. A desktop PC that can't should cost hundreds of dollars less than that.

i never said i couldn't play games like skyrim on pc, just that when i do it plays nowhere near as fluently as it does on a console, well 360 anyway, can't play it at all on ps3.. this is why i prefer gaming on an xbox. now granted if i turn all the graphic settings downs it runs decent, but why would i wanna do that when i can just play it on xbox instead where the graphic settings are automatically maxed?

 

[Dagmar]

i never said i couldn't play games like skyrim on pc, just that when i do it plays nowhere near as fluently as it does on a console, well 360 anyway, can't play it at all on ps3.. this is why i prefer gaming on an xbox. now granted if i turn all the graphic settings downs it runs decent, but why would i wanna do that when i can just play it on xbox instead where the graphic settings are automatically maxed?

You're just not getting it. If you paid $1,400 a few years ago for desktop pc with the request that it be made with an eye towards being good for pc gaming you shouldn't just be able to play Skyrim on that PC. You should be able to play Skyrim on that PC at Ultra settings in 1920x1080 high resolution with the Skyrim HD 2K Textures mod or similar high resolution texture mod, and a high resolution enhanced lighting and weather particle effects mod with no lag or stuttering with average frame rates of at least 60 fps (which would absolutely smoke the visuals and performance on any game console).

From what little you've described you've been getting about $700 worth of PC performance for the $1,400 you spent. That's a lousy return on your investment.

 

[ShangTsung]

You're just not getting it. If you paid $1,400 a few years ago for desktop pc with the request that it be made with an eye towards being good for pc gaming you shouldn't just be able to play Skyrim on that PC. You should be able to play Skyrim on that PC at Ultra settings in 1920x1080 high resolution with the Skyrim HD 2K Textures mod or similar high resolution texture mod, and a high resolution enhanced lighting and weather particle effects mod with no lag or stuttering with average frame rates of at least 60 fps (which would absolutely smoke the visuals and performance on any game console).

From what little you've described you've been getting about $700 worth of PC performance for the $1,400 you spent. That's a lousy return on your investment.

yea i kinda didn't ask it be built for gaming.. what i bought was the best video card i could find and had a friend install it.

 

[Reaper0021]

You're just not getting it. If you paid $1,400 a few years ago for desktop pc with the request that it be made with an eye towards being good for pc gaming you shouldn't just be able to play Skyrim on that PC. You should be able to play Skyrim on that PC at Ultra settings in 1920x1080 high resolution with the Skyrim HD 2K Textures mod or similar high resolution texture mod, and a high resolution enhanced lighting and weather particle effects mod with no lag or stuttering with average frame rates of at least 60 fps (which would absolutely smoke the visuals and performance on any game console).

From what little you've described you've been getting about $700 worth of PC performance for the $1,400 you spent. That's a lousy return on your investment.

I agree. As someone that works for a major PC company building/designing systems, for $1,400.00 your pc should wash your car for you, wipe your ass after you go to the bathroom and cook you breakfast. Even if that system is 2 years old, it should still perform top-notch in regards to gaming. My own Alienware system is 2 years old and will still run Skyrim at all the aforementioned requirements that Dagmar listed...and more. I can run any game currently on the market at top settings w/o even having to consult the min. required specs listed on the box to run said game(s). Example: Shogun 2 Total War. While being an RTS game, it is a monster at it's highest settings...and my older PC can ace it swimmingly at a constant 50fps all settings at max@ 1920x1080 resolution. Nobody is harping on you Shang. Quite the opposite. People are just wondering if you got shafted on your system.

***Note***
Paid $1,375.00 for my system 2 years ago. Still, it will smoke any game currently on the market place. Easily.

 

[Dagmar]

yea i kinda didn't ask it be built for gaming.. what i bought was the best video card i could find and had a friend install it.

Installing a replacement video card without knowing the rest of your PC's limitations can be a bad thing. Among other things, if you get a more powerful video card and your power supply is inadequate the video card isn't going to perform up to spec. That was already pointed out by someone else in this thread. If you didn't ask for it to be built for gaming it's quite possible it has a power supply of 500W or less (some non gaming desktop PC's don't even have 400W).

The best video card available over two years ago would have have been something in the neighborhood of an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 or Radeon HD 6970 requiring a minimum of 600W and 550W respectively. That's going to vary depending what the rest of your hardware specs are. If you're power is insufficient your GPU may clock down to compensate for the lack of power meaning it won't perform as well. Worse, if you're GPU is clocking down there's a good chance your CPU is as well. Depending on your mobo it's even possible that your video card can shut down entirely with the PC switching to integrated graphics on the mobo if you have a hybrid configuration.

 

[ShangTsung]

Installing a replacement video card without knowing the rest of your PC's limitations can be a bad thing. Among other things, if you get a more powerful video card and your power supply is inadequate the video card isn't going to perform up to spec. That was already pointed out by someone else in this thread. If you didn't ask for it to be built for gaming it's quite possible it has a power supply of 500W or less (some non gaming desktop PC's don't even have 400W).

The best video card available over two years ago would have have been something in the neighborhood of an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 or Radeon HD 6970 requiring a minimum of 600W and 550W respectively. That's going to vary depending what the rest of your hardware specs are. If you're power is insufficient your GPU may clock down to compensate for the lack of power meaning it won't perform as well. Worse, if you're GPU is clocking down there's a good chance your CPU is as well. Depending on your mobo it's even possible that your video card can shut down entirely with the PC switching to integrated graphics on the mobo if you have a hybrid configuration.

yea... seriously i have no clue what you're talking about, i've never even heard the term "mobo" so naturally its like you're speaking in a foreign language right now.. lol as for the video card i had installed it wasn't quite 2 years ago, i had it installed say around a year ago, tbh i had no idea when getting a pc custom built that you had to ask it be built for gaming i just more less told them to make sure it ran fast as possible and was built to last.. one thing i don't understand is that all my emulators run perfectly, i can literally have a genesis game paused while playing a snes game while on the internet if i really wanted to.. they play just as if i was on the console itself.

 

[Tyer032392]

yea... seriously i have no clue what you're talking about, i've never even heard the term "mobo" so naturally its like you're speaking in a foreign language right now.. lol as for the video card i had installed it wasn't quite 2 years ago, i had it installed say around a year ago, tbh i had no idea when getting a pc custom built that you had to ask it be built for gaming i just more less told them to make sure it ran fast as possible and was built to last.. one thing i don't understand is that all my emulators run perfectly, i can literally have a genesis game paused while playing a snes game while on the internet if i really wanted to.. they play just as if i was on the console itself.

"Mobo" is slang for Motherboard. I have a good suggestion for you, open up your computer and check the Power Supply Unit to see how many whats of power it is supplying your computer. Seeing as you have stated that you just wanted it to "run fast and last", the maker of that computer did not put in a very good PSU and you are having inadequate power being pushed through your rig.

 

[Reaper0021]

"Mobo" is slang for Motherboard. I have a good suggestion for you, open up your computer and check the Power Supply Unit to see how many whats of power it is supplying your computer. Seeing as you have stated that you just wanted it to "run fast and last", the maker of that computer did not put in a very good PSU and you are having inadequate power being pushed through your rig.

All of this is moot. Shang has stated several times that PC gaming is not his thing. He is happy with console gaming, so based solely on that, think we can let him do what he wants as far as his PC goes.

 

[Tyer032392]

All of this is moot. Shang has stated several times that PC gaming is not his thing. He is happy with console gaming, so based solely on that, think we can let him do what he wants as far as his PC goes.

I suppose you have a point, but I really hate to see some unsuspecting person getting ripped off without even knowing it. In Shang's field of view, it would be like buying an X-Box 360 and learning that it cannot play 360 games, or that its hardware is just re-branded X-Box software.