Unintended game mechanics (oh oh opinion thread)

[Rotceh]

So what do you guys and gals think of game mechanics that can be done in game to power level skills?

The game lets you do it, is not a glitch, they are just ways to level up skills much faster than what was intended by the developers. What is intended by developers is just my opinion of course, I have no clue what they really wanted to do but, it’s clear that some skills can be leveled up so easy , that you may think that something is just not right. Things like:

Crafting leather bracers to reach 100 smithing. Just because I make hundreds of leather bracers, does that make me proficient in creating a set of dragonarmor and working on ebony weapons? I think not. Standing on a fire trap and casting a healing spell on yourself to gain restoration skill. Hold shield block vs. a bandit archer and just letting him use you as a target. Casting a spell or using a skill vs. some unkillable npc. There are plenty more of situations like the once I’ve mentioned, to me these are just unintended game mechanics.

So should Bethesda fix this with a patch? Maybe add some kind of hidden cap for each spell or item crafted, after so much use you can’t gain skill for it anymore. That way you’re forced to use a higher level spell to increase your skill and make better armor to gain smithing. Or should it be left to the player and have them add self restrictions to the way they play the game? Or maybe is just fine the way it is.

What you think?

 

[Skullrattla]

They should totally change the entire system of levelling and levelled enemies.
The outcome of combat shouldn't just boil down to numbers.

Levelling up should primarily happen by accomplishing quests, including more challenging puzzles (perhaps randomly generated so you cannot look it up online), doing or saying certain things in NPC interactions, and finding special items, not by repetitively grinding any activity or just killing a lot. So that, once you've made a dagger or two or killed a skeever/draugr/whatever with one hit , you don't receive XP again from that same activity.

Quests should only come up according to your level, containing enemies and challenges appropriate to your level. Quests shouldn't come up in the middle of other quests.

For each level tier (eg 1-10, 11-20, etc) there could be several quests to choose from , and you could do them in any order perhaps, but not simultaneously . You should be able to cancel at least some quests and remove them from your journal by going back to the quest giver with a dialogue option like "It looks like I have to try this again later", which would reset the quest progress, and maybe respawn enemies.

It would be easy to have entire areas off limits to low level players, like The Throat of the World is. Areas could gradually become available as you level up, this could be done with magical gateways requiring different shouts to open, obtained at specific levels. Or physical gates guarded by characters who will not let you through because you don't have x,y,z or the power to beat them. There could be sneaky ways into some areas for the foolhardy, where death would be nearly certain.

They could have a much bigger world if it was actually split into different areas, so the game doesn't have to load the entire outdoor map in one go.

I'd much prefer a simpler system overall. The open world is great, but you shouldn't be able to in any way interfere with any items or characters that are involved in quests you have not yet done. There is no need to have more than one quest active at any time. Being able to take your time with some quests is great, but if in that time you cannot start another quest, I don't see this as limiting in a bad way, and it would cut down on a lot of scripting problems they seem unable to fix.

 

[Winkeytoofly]

It makes people use selfcontrol and not have to do the days and days of grinding that is required for some games like WoW where if you wanted a perfect smithing you would literally spend 24+ hours just getting mats together to get close.

So really this game as all others is just about how you want to play it, you want the game easy you can glitch it you want the game hard well you must exort self control and not use the exploits there are there for everyone to use.

I think these expoilts is what makes this game so popular, some ppl want to rock out full dragon armor asap others want to make the game as hard as they can and just use Iron armor. well the game allows you to do either one fairly easliy.

I play with the game on master and only allow myself to using Smithing as my craft no enchant etc did i make a billion iron dagger yes but i wanted to use all those dragon bones ive been collecting.

 

[Static]

It takes a fair bit of effort to power level in this game, and it certainly can't be done unless you choose to (attacking your horse, soul trapping dead bodies, smithing hundreds of iron daggers). If you can't prevent yourself from exploiting the system then that's your issue, not Bethesda's.

 

[MushroomGenius]

100% agree with Static on this one.

Even after a few hours of gameplay, the Smithing glitch becomes pretty apparent and highly exploitable. So, as Static said, it falls on the player to police themselves. If they want to take advantage, go ahead. If not, show some constraint.

The only problem I had with spamming daggers/bracers is that I would be doing it more so to get rid of materials/weight and make a bit of profit, I really didn't want my level to increase so quickly when my fighting skills weren't on par. Powerleveling the skill also kept me from purchasing training at every level also. I don't want to be a level 5 player walking around in Daedric Armor. I'd rather see an earned progression.

But if the point of this thread was to see what other ways to powerlevel your skills are, I'm not much help. Another thread mentioned the Oghma Infinium though.

Powerleveling gold, you could take advantage of that endless Oblivion book that that one skeleton always has.

 

[Kuurus]

I think there are 2 different issues. There is the ease with which some skills can be leveled thru some simple grinding while using skills exactly as intended, and then there are the wacky ways of raising skills not in the spirit of the game (ie crouchng behind a greybeard and backstabbing him over and over).

I think the first is really not an issue at all. It's a single player game and up to the player whether they want to grind away or just take the game and the increases as they come from normal activities. Besides which, Bethesda spending time and resources to make changes would be a waste. If someone REALLY wants to grind, they will always find the quickest way to do it.

The second is probably more of an issue where you would find people divided. Some would like Bethesda to fix these because they are considered exploits. Others will say, don't use it if you don't want to, but leave my game alone.

Personally I bypass these things as I like a feeling of real accomplishment when I complete something. I don't use the console to gain any advantages either. I have only used it sparingly to fix bugs and or glitches, like quest items that won't leave your inventory after the quest is completed. However, my view is that it's a single player game. If you want to use them, use them. If you don't want to use them, then don't. How anyone else wants to play it doesn't affect me in the least, so I don't feel there is a need for Bethesda to address them. I'd rather they spend their time and resources working on more content.

 

[Rotceh]

If you can't prevent yourself from exploiting the system then that's your issue, not Bethesda's.

Playing Devil's Advocate here...

So is not Bethesda's fault it can be exploited so easilly? Most blacksmiths carry a lot of iron ingots and leather strips to make daggers and its even easier to make leather bracers. Why would anyone not make them if they wish to level smithing? You would have to add restrictions to your game play. Thats really the questions that I'm trying to ask...not if is fun or not, but rather if its up to the player to make the game right or is it Bethesda that should get it right.

Just creating convo, I can go either way on this subject...my current vote is for Bethesda to fix, but I'm easily swayed

Remember to vote on top.
Thanks everyone for your comments.

 

[Kuurus]

I think if it was a multi-player game, the onus would be on Bethesda to "fix" it because it would create an unlevel playing field between those who exploited it and those who didn't.

Being a single player game, there is no need. Some guy in South Dakota who chooses to spend his time in a loop with a vendor for an hour to power level Speech doesn't affect me or you.

 

[MushroomGenius]

Agree with Kuurus also on this.

While how another player chooses to play the game has no effect on my gameplay, the guys that think they're all bad@$$ because of it bothers me. It probably shouldn't, but I wish people would have a bit more humility. That's just not how the internet works though, I know.

Anyway... I would still leave it up to the player to police.

If someone wants to exploit their way to the best gear at an early level, so be it. I just don't see the fun in it. To me Skyrim is something I want to savor and enjoy, not scarf down and crap out.

 

[Static]

Playing Devil's Advocate here...

So is not Bethesda's fault it can be exploited so easilly? Most blacksmiths carry a lot of iron ingots and leather strips to make daggers and its even easier to make leather bracers. Why would anyone not make them if they wish to level smithing? You would have to add restrictions to your game play. Thats really the questions that I'm trying to ask...not if is fun or not, but rather if its up to the player to make the game right or is it Bethesda that should get it right.

Just creating convo, I can go either way on this subject...my current vote is for Bethesda to fix, but I'm easily swayed

Remember to vote on top.
Thanks everyone for your comments.

This is just silly. Bethesda shouldn't have to restrict parts of the game just so people don't exploit them, this is an entirely single-player game: if you exploit it you gain nothing. If you don't want your smithing to level up fast then don't exploit the system, only smith what you need. If they took ingots and ore from traders then people would complain that they can't smith anything because of the ore regeneration time.

Saying it's Bethesda fault that you (non-specific) couldn't control yourself and thus exploited the game and made it boring is like blaming Michelin for impeding your day after you slash your own car tyres.

 

[skyrimaddict1323]

How you level and whether you use the exploits or not is 100% up to you. What someone else does in their wonderful world of skyrim, does not mean you have to do the same in yours. If you dont like the fact that the game mechanics allow you to power level, don't use the game mechanics to power level. If you don't want to use the exploits to make a sword that does OVER 9000 damage, dont use the exploits.

However, some people enjoy using these things.

So in my opinion, the fact that you can power level and use exploits makes the game that much more amazing, because the people that use them get that much more enjoyment out of the game. And what matters here is that every individual Dragonborn gets the maximum level of enjoyment from their game, right?

That being said, i don't use the exploits or power level, so my opinion is not biased. I simply love the fact that each individual player has so many options when it comes to maing the game their own.

 

[Satorus]

I dont think Bethesda should remove anything.

I will admit that on my first character I used the speech glitch in Riften and I poweleveled blacksmithing with iron daggers because once i found out about I was all excited. Now on my second character, I am doing everything "by the book" so to say and not utilizing any glitches. I think people tend to do this as well. On their first go its fun to have high level armor etc. but then boring after awhile, thus they tend to make their second go through Skyrim more challenging.

Nothing wrong with it either way. As Kuurus said, this is a single player game. It isnt hurting anyone.

 

[Epsilon]

yea i just try to police myself and play the game as honest as possible. Like the free house in whiterun glitch, the glitch close to winter hold where you can take time to loot hundred of copies of that one cojuration book and make a fortune out of it. But playing on ps3 like i am i doubt they will release and DLC that will fix any of these. I just try to play right and pretend these dont exsist

 

[DdraigGwyn]

As many others have pointed out, your behavior does not impinge on others. So, as long as you feel satisfied with the way you level up, then it is your business. Probably some will never use any glitch/exploit/cheat because they would not feel they had earned the reward. In the same way, using the PC to change settings is each person’s choice: clearly it is no longer the same game as the console players are in, but each person should be free to enjoy the game that fits their personality the best.
I ‘cheat’ by reading these forums and using the collective wisdom of other players, rather than trying figure out some of the solutions from scratch. Just as well: there is no way i would have come up the the needed sequence of actions in some quests. I justify it by treating all of you as NPCs that I meet in the game.

 

[Skullrattla]

I wouldn't have known about the exploits if I hadn’t been reading about Skyrim on the net. It may be 'cause I'm dumb or just because I havent played a TES game before. The smithing and alchemy stuff was totally uninteresting to me, and I only used a mod to give me a bunch of perks because I became frustrated at the difficulty spikes in the game, and because there is no way to rre-assign perks once you understand how it works, without using the console. I wasted a lot of perks at the beginning by spreading them around, and ended up with an unviable character, so my only option was to either cheat or start from scratch, and I didn’t fancy that so soon.

The levelling system just doesn't work smoothly and reliably unless perhaps you go "by the book" in a specific way. So many end up using exploits because the game can be extremely frustratingly difficult and people are generally reluctant to drop the difficulty. Hard and long quests often have rewards disappointingly small compared to the amount of effort it took to get them, (eg Staff of Magnus) and then some really easy quests give you a huge reward.

All that the difficulty slider does, apparently, is modify numbers to make you and enemies harder or easier to kill.

 

[tvJefe]

The biggest problem I have with the leveling system is that there are plenty of non-combat skills you can level that will increase enemy difficulty while not providing you the skills needed to defeat them.

So when leveling my thief - all the skill raises I got in sneak, pickpocketing, lockpicking and speech made it very difficult to kill enemies with my low bow skill. I ended up using the Faendal trick just to have a fighting chance.

 

[Perkless in Skyrim]

I like things the way they are. I've cheated the system and I've played by the book and I enjoy both. All Bethesda needs to do is to squash the bugs and I'll be a happy camper.

 

[dbukalski]

my problem isnt the easy leveling. Its the lack of challenge when you craft strong equipment. The game should allow us to crank up the difficulty to insane levels so that even strongest weapons wouldnt suffice