The Imperials kind of missed a trick

[Serebro Moniker]

Does it not bug anyone else that despite the fact that we've seen that the Dragonborn can walk into the Palace of Kings clad in full Imperial armour, walk up to Ulfric and chat with him, they haven't had him assassinated?

Possible scenarios here:
Tullius sends Dragonborn into Palace of the Kings, Dragonborn Ice Forms Ulfric that stabs him in the face several times

Imperials start a very costly war, furtherly weakening themselves against the Thalmor


They chose the second option.
Come on now.

 

[osheao]

the imperials started this entire muck-up. their stupidity knows no bounds.

 

[Serebro Moniker]

the imperials started this entire muck-up. their stupidity knows no bounds.

Let's keep this particular discussion to the one thread please.

 

[osheao]

i did.

 

[Serebro Moniker]

Fine then, if you insist...

the imperials started this entire muck-up. their stupidity knows no bounds.

The Imperials started nothing. Ulfric started the Civil War when he murdered Toryyg.

 

[osheao]

i agree that the imperials are fools, ie. "bug's me."

only imbeciles would sign the Concordat that lacks justice and places undue burden upon their own allies. why would i expect wise plans during the inevitable war to follow?

the war was started by the blasphemy of the "treaty."

ulfric honorably defeated torygg according to skyrim custom.

 

[Serebro Moniker]

i agree that the imperials are fools, ie. "bug's me."

only imbeciles would sign the Concordat that lacks justice and places undue burden upon their own allies. why would i expect wise plans during the inevitable war to follow?

the war was started by the blasphemy of the "treaty."

ulfric honorably defeated torygg according to skyrim custom.

the only reason the Empire signed the Concordat was that the only other option was the war continuing and the Empire likely being destroyed. It was their only option.

 

[osheao]

if the empire didn't have enough friends, allies and a good foreign policy, then, so be it.

you don't follow the path of immorality and cowardice because you'll lose your power, prestige and reputation.

 

[Serebro Moniker]

That didn't make very much sense

 

[bulbaquil]

Possible scenarios here:
Tullius sends Dragonborn into Palace of the Kings, Dragonborn Ice Forms Ulfric that stabs him in the face several times

Imperials start a very costly war, furtherly weakening themselves against the Thalmor


They chose the second option.
Come on now.

The war predated the Dragonborn. That said, security in the Palace of the Kings and Castle Dour is absurdly lax for what it should be. That being said, the DB would find himself surrounded by Windhelm/Solitude guards if he did.

Either that or Tullius, being a master strategist, knows perfectly well that Ulfric is flagged essential until the Battle for Windhelm and must prosecute the war "properly."

Similar holds true for the Stormcloak Dragonborn, just with the roles reversed.

 

[Serebro Moniker]

The war predated the Dragonborn.
Aye, but they didn't need to continue it.

That said, security in the Palace of the Kings and Castle Dour is absurdly lax for what it should be. That being said, the DB would find himself surrounded by Windhelm/Solitude guards if he did.
Guards are easy with the right Shouts.

Either that or Tullius, being a master strategist, knows perfectly well that Ulfric is flagged essential until the Battle for Windhelm and must prosecute the war "properly."
Very true.

Similar holds true for the Stormcloak Dragonborn, just with the roles reversed.
Nope. The Imperial war effort doesn't rest on Tullius' shoulders, the Stormcloak's does.

 

[osheao]

the empire signed the concordat due to the ebbing of their strength and power.

they chose to save their own hides, ie. halt/slow their ebbing, at the expense of their subjects/allies.

that choosing was cowardly and immoral.

their true moral option was to negotiate for fair terms and then fight for the behalf of their subjects/allies when the thalmor proved to be evil.

ie. you don't choose the path of immorality because if you don't you might be wiped out.

 

[Serebro Moniker]

the empire signed the concordat due to the ebbing of their strength and power.

they chose to save their own hides, ie. halt/slow their ebbing, at the expense of their subjects/allies.

that choosing was cowardly and immoral.

their true moral option was to negotiate for fair terms and then fight for the behalf of their subjects/allies when the thalmor proved to be evil.

ie. you don't choose the path of immorality because if you don't you might be wiped out.

Ulfric would have done the same.
There, I said it.

 

[osheao]

nope.

ulfric is a man of conviction that believes in skyrim and her people.

ulfric, obviously, would have fought the thalmor and risked death over immorality.

 

[Serebro Moniker]

nope.

ulfric is a man of conviction that believes in skyrim and her people.

ulfric, obviously, would have fought the thalmor and risked death over immorality.

Ulfric believes in, and fights for, Ulfric.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

the empire signed the concordat due to the ebbing of their strength and power.

they chose to save their own hides, ie. halt/slow their ebbing, at the expense of their subjects/allies.

that choosing was cowardly and immoral.

their true moral option was to negotiate for fair terms and then fight for the behalf of their subjects/allies when the thalmor proved to be evil.

ie. you don't choose the path of immorality because if you don't you might be wiped out.

Let me tell you something

The Thalmor were pretty much torturing, raping, killing, and performing experiments on any resident of Tamriel they came across, the Empire fought until finally they had their backs against the wall during the battle of the Imperial City, it was there that the Emperor signed the treaty because his citizens were undergoing excruciating horrors brought on by the war. Nobody liked the treaty, the Emperor hated it.

When Ulfric throws a tantrum and builds an army (named after himself, how vain) all he does is prologue the Thalmor occupation by weakening the Empire, the only force that could stand a chance against the Aldmeri Dominion. It says so in Thalmor dossiers at the embassy, they want the war to continue because it's good for them. Furthermore, Ulfric is a power hungry, corrupt politician. If you go to the peace council, all he does is kick and scream until he gets land while everyone else looks at him like a child throwing a tantrum in the super market.

Ulfric is also xenophobic, look at how Elves are treated in Windhelm. He doesn't care for them, he hates them, he promotes violence against them. Look at Riften, where Dark Elves are given a chance, there they are beneficial citizens who are treated equally. Let's not forget about the Markarth Incident where Ulfric ordered the executions of NORD men, women and children who he was supposed to be reclaiming the city for. He also tortured citizens to find out where the Forsworn were hiding.

Oh, and no, Torygg wasn't killed in fair combat. Talk to his wife, his wizard, everybody that was present. Hell, talk to him in Sovngarde and he'll tell you that Ulfric ripped him apart with a shout, it was not honorable in the slightest.

 

[osheao]

let's start with the easiest:

torygg was killed in honorable combat, whether, you like it or not. nord custom establishes that fact. torygg himself proves that fact. tears of the wife are worthless. the use of the thu'um was wise, yet, irrelevant and doesn't dishonor the rightful challenge.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

let's start with the easiest:

torygg was killed in honorable combat, whether, you like it or not. nord custom establishes that fact. torygg himself proves that fact. tears of the wife are worthless. the use of the thu'um was wise, yet, irrelevant and doesn't dishonor the rightful challenge.

What does that even mean? How does it not dishonor the fight? Ulfric pretty much brought a gun to a knife fight there, furthermore EVERYBODY in Solitude says Ulfric shouted Torygg apart, not just his wife, but the apathetic count wizard as well. Torygg even says this in Sovngarde, where he has no reason to manipulate or lie because he's DEAD.

 

[osheao]

xenophobic is a term used by the weak and sensitive, illogical and unintelligent. it's a term meant to dictate the rules of argument.

the word has been trivialized and misused to the point of worthlessness. much the same as the term, homophobic.

ulfric cares for his country. his people. he was betrayed by the imperials and cyrodiil. he was forced to adhere to idolatry and immorality.

he fought for the legitimate ideals of the past and altered his course in supreme wisdom.

evil will not dictate his life.

 

[osheao]

What does that even mean? How does it not dishonor the fight? Ulfric pretty much brought a gun to a knife fight there, furthermore EVERYBODY in Solitude says Ulfric shouted Torygg apart, not just his wife, but the apathetic count wizard as well. Torygg even says this in Sovngarde, where he has no reason to manipulate or lie because he's DEAD.

what are you talking about? this dishonor rationale with the use of the thu'um is ridiculous.
do we need to see the writ of honor for the high king challenge?

man vs. man, but, oh no, we can't be doing any of that thu'um stuff. that's too powerful for my puny personage.