Stormcloaks, why?

[NENALATA]

The Aldmeri Dominion isn't that bad. Don't blame them because TMII is a crap Diplomat/Negotiator.

 

[Jader]

Took a while and a few dozen experimental play-throughs but I'm relinquishing my allegiance to the Empire.

Always liked and favored an underdog, but ignored it and joined the Legion.

For me,I tended to join the Empire based on how idiodic most Stormcloak Jarls tend to be,Skald being a prime example.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Aldmeri Dominion isn't that bad. Don't blame them because TMII is a crap Diplomat/Negotiator.

How is it Titus Mede II? He doesn't do treaties. It seems fairly pointless to blame a politically weak dynasty, when it is the Elder Council who created the White-Gold Concordat with the Thalmor.

Be like blaming a Bosmer, for what the Dunmer did to Argonians.

 

[NENALATA]

Nice try. Thalmor comment on several occasions it is the Emperor giving them license to operate in Skyrim.

The Elder Council is trying to assassinate him in order to stop this because TMII is bound to the WGC which he signed.

You've said it yourself (prior to turning on the Empire), that the WGC is his treaty and getting rid of him ensures putting an end to that piece of legislation.

Because once TMII decided to sign the WGC, everyone else had to choose between dealing with it or turning on the Empire, which no one wanted to do because that would have given the Thalmor victory by default.

 

[Jeremius]

Nice try. Thalmor comment on several occasions it is the Emperor giving them license to operate in Skyrim.

The Elder Council is trying to assassinate him in order to stop this because TMII is bound to the WGC which he signed.

You've said it yourself (prior to turning on the Empire), that the WGC is his treaty and getting rid of him ensures putting an end to that piece of legislation.

Because once TMII decided to sign the WGC, everyone else had to choose between dealing with it or turning on the Empire, which no one wanted to do because that would have given the Thalmor victory by default.

Anything involving Mede's assassination would likely be speculation. Could be that Mede wanted to spend more money on the War, which would hurt the Elder Council's collective coin purse.

 

[NENALATA]

Nice try. Thalmor comment on several occasions it is the Emperor giving them license to operate in Skyrim.

The Elder Council is trying to assassinate him in order to stop this because TMII is bound to the WGC which he signed.

You've said it yourself (prior to turning on the Empire), that the WGC is his treaty and getting rid of him ensures putting an end to that piece of legislation.

Because once TMII decided to sign the WGC, everyone else had to choose between dealing with it or turning on the Empire, which no one wanted to do because that would have given the Thalmor victory by default.

Anything involving Mede's assassination would likely be speculation. Could be that Mede wanted to spend more money on the War, which would hurt the Elder Council's collective coin purse.

While completing the various quests up to the finali, the sponsor is revealed to be a member of the Elder Council who is extremely happy to see you. He promises many changes are on the way and was desperate to find someone to assist his ambition for change.

The way he talks, the Emperor was a lame duck and was taking all of Tamriel down with him.

If you have any experience with the subject of TMII's assassination at all, the first thing you would've understood is that the money is no option as they pay ENORMOUS sums of Gold to get rid of TMII. It's about change for the better which the Elder Councilman admits to you towards the end.

 

[Jeremius]

Nice try. Thalmor comment on several occasions it is the Emperor giving them license to operate in Skyrim.

The Elder Council is trying to assassinate him in order to stop this because TMII is bound to the WGC which he signed.

You've said it yourself (prior to turning on the Empire), that the WGC is his treaty and getting rid of him ensures putting an end to that piece of legislation.

Because once TMII decided to sign the WGC, everyone else had to choose between dealing with it or turning on the Empire, which no one wanted to do because that would have given the Thalmor victory by default.

Anything involving Mede's assassination would likely be speculation. Could be that Mede wanted to spend more money on the War, which would hurt the Elder Council's collective coin purse.

While completing the various quests up to the finali, the sponsor is revealed to be a member of the Elder Council who is extremely happy to see you. He promises many changes are on the way and was desperate to find someone to assist his ambition for change.

The way he talks, the Emperor was a lame duck and was taking all of Tamriel down with him.

If you have any experience with the subject of TMII's assassination at all, the first thing you would've understood is that the money is no option as they pay ENORMOUS sums of Gold to get rid of TMII. It's about change for the better which the Elder Councilman admits to you towards the end.

I have done the quest, and there was nothing that confirmed that the Elder Council wants a war, and nothing to prove anything else. Only minor hints that might not mean anything.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Nice try. Thalmor comment on several occasions it is the Emperor giving them license to operate in Skyrim.

The Elder Council is trying to assassinate him in order to stop this because TMII is bound to the WGC which he signed.

You've said it yourself (prior to turning on the Empire), that the WGC is his treaty and getting rid of him ensures putting an end to that piece of legislation.

Because once TMII decided to sign the WGC, everyone else had to choose between dealing with it or turning on the Empire, which no one wanted to do because that would have given the Thalmor victory by default.

What I mentioned about Titus Mede II and his assassination, was about policy change. It was also policy to prepare for war, so that could be the change.

Lore wise, the Elder Council handle treaties, legislation and law. I find it impossible to believe an politically weak Dynasty would somehow manage to force the White-Gold Concordat onto the Empire without Elder Council approval. Imperial politics don't work that way, the Emperor doesn't have supreme power.

The point is, we don't know. That is the major problem when defending the Empire, you're left with a giant question mark as to what is next for Imperials.

Titus II's assassination could cause a strong Emperor to rise, it could cause a weak Emperor to rise or it could cause another Stormcrown Interregnum. The Empire is fragile as it is, barely stable, Tamriel is on the brink of war. The Emperor's assassination could mark the fall of the Third Empire, lore wise the Elder Council are some of the most corrupt people in Tamriel.

 

[NENALATA]

NENALATA said: ↑

Jeremius said: ↑​

NENALATA said: ↑​

Nice try. Thalmor comment on several occasions it is the Emperor giving them license to operate in Skyrim.​

​

The Elder Council is trying to assassinate him in order to stop this because TMII is bound to the WGC which he signed.​

​

You've said it yourself (prior to turning on the Empire), that the WGC is his treaty and getting rid of him ensures putting an end to that piece of legislation.​

​

Because once TMII decided to sign the WGC, everyone else had to choose between dealing with it or turning on the Empire, which no one wanted to do because that would have given the Thalmor victory by default.​

Anything involving Mede's assassination would likely be speculation. Could be that Mede wanted to spend more money on the War, which would hurt the Elder Council's collective coin purse.​

While completing the various quests up to the finali, the sponsor is revealed to be a member of the Elder Council who is extremely happy to see you. He promises many changes are on the way and was desperate to find someone to assist his ambition for change.​

​

The way he talks, the Emperor was a lame duck and was taking all of Tamriel down with him.​

​

If you have any experience with the subject of TMII's assassination at all, the first thing you would've understood is that the money is no option as they pay ENORMOUS sums of Gold to get rid of TMII. It's about change for the better which the Elder Councilman admits to you towards the end.​

I have done the quest, and there was nothing that confirmed that the Elder Council wants a war, and nothing to prove anything else. Only minor hints that might not mean anything.

*yawn* I never said anything about a war. DrunkenMage mentioned that...

So the "minor hints"? You admit then, that they are hints. The proper term for this would be subtle hints.

Furthermore, I find your naivety very interesting, what with refusing to acknowledge the little things. Same as Ulfric really... walking thru that wide gate... everyone falling him... no thinking required... No responsibility for your actions, yet Ulfric is looking to find the ones to blame.

Always searching for the answer to a question that has already been answered.

 

[NENALATA]

NENALATA said: ↑

Nice try. Thalmor comment on several occasions it is the Emperor giving them license to operate in Skyrim.​

​

The Elder Council is trying to assassinate him in order to stop this because TMII is bound to the WGC which he signed.​

​

You've said it yourself (prior to turning on the Empire), that the WGC is his treaty and getting rid of him ensures putting an end to that piece of legislation.​

​

Because once TMII decided to sign the WGC, everyone else had to choose between dealing with it or turning on the Empire, which no one wanted to do because that would have given the Thalmor victory by default.​

What I mentioned about Titus Mede II and his assassination, was about policy change. It was also policy to prepare for war, so that could be the change.

Lore wise, the Elder Council handle treaties, legislation and law. I find it impossible to believe an politically weak Dynasty would somehow manage to force the White-Gold Concordat onto the Empire without Elder Council approval. Imperial politics don't work that way, the Emperor doesn't have supreme power.

The point is, we don't know. That is the major problem when defending the Empire, you're left with a giant question mark as to what is next for Imperials.

Titus II's assassination could cause a strong Emperor to rise, it could cause a weak Emperor to rise or it could cause another Stormcrown Interregnum. The Empire is fragile as it is, barely stable, Tamriel is on the brink of war. The Emperor's assassination could mark the fall of the Third Empire, lore wise the Elder Council are some of the most corrupt people in Tamriel.

Oh for Christ's sake... you're changing your story Mr Mage.

Simple fact of the matter is you've always spoken against the Elder Council which is one reason why I knew something was... "amiss".

The Elder Council is a political body made up of representatives from the remaining Provinces and just like any political entity is subject to corruption, Stormcloak Jarls for example are also corrupt or outright incompetent in their own time.

At least the Elder Council is trying, they have been for years to get people in there and undo the damage done by TMII.

They cannot be blamed necessarily for what the Emperor did. That's on him and on some levels, he seems to accept this.

The Elder Council is trying and I agree with them that getting rid of TMII will bring positive change.

And anyone who knows anything about the Empire's politics and feedback from some of the Imperial Officers can safely infere the WGC must be abolished or all this Civil War business will just happen again.

They can't hide behind the WGC anymore, Gen Tullius realizes this and is on his way after Skyrim to speak to the Emperor on Skyrim's behalf. Would be alot easier if the Emperor wasn't around to have that conversation.

Esp seeing how the Elder Council was forced to either go along with TMII or start turning on the Empire. If one quit listening to Ulfric's b*tching long enough to hear the Elder Councilman out, you get the picture. Of course, you'd have to be able to actually listen first, and like most devout Religious folks that I've had the pleasure of meeting, all they are is condemning while praising God for not condemning them.

 

[DestroyerDevourMaster]

DrunkenMage you're making me question my loyalties here. I always did think that the threat of the Dominion could make the provinces see reason and form an alliance with one another but some of what Solitude's court mage and Legate Rikke have said in game about united we stand divided we fall always made me stick with the Legion, plus I haven't seen Ulfric as the kind of man to make friends with those who are different like the Redguards for example. Now I'm starting to think Ulfric really does have a good head on his shoulders after all. Stormcloaks, what do you guys have to say about the Imperial and Stormcloak supporters who claim that Ulfric only cares about Ulfric and doesn't give a damn about Talos?

 

[DrunkenMage]

Oh for Christ's sake... you're changing your story Mr Mage.

Simple fact of the matter is you've always spoken against the Elder Council which is one reason why I knew something was... "amiss".

I debated with Imperial bias, of course I change my story. Of course I have always spoken against the Elder Council, because I know what they're like.

The death of Titus Mede II, is surrounded by uncertainty and speculation. That is the problem.

The Elder Council is a political body made up of representatives from the remaining Provinces and just like any political entity is subject to corruption, Stormcloak Jarls for example are also corrupt or outright incompetent in their own time.

The Elder Council isn't three people. They're not representatives of the provinces, maybe once they were, but they're just the richest of the rich. They probably still buy their seats.

At least the Elder Council is trying, they have been for years to get people in there and undo the damage done by TMII.

The Elder Council never wanted a Colovian Dynasty, they wanted someone who was Nibenese and could be manipulated. Go read the novels, they're hardy a Roman Senate. Titus Mede II saved the Empire, he was given a weak Empire.

They cannot be blamed necessarily for what the Emperor did. That's on him and on some levels, he seems to accept this.

Of course they can, they control the throne. The Elder Council's power cannot be underestimated. I have no idea why you're defending the Elder Council, they are the most incompetent nobles, who merely care about keeping power. The Septims fought for control with the Elder Council, the Medes were given illusion of control.

The Elder Council is trying and I agree with them that getting rid of TMII will bring positive change.

Or it could bring destruction and ruin. That is the problem, the Elder Council have never done something in the best interests of the Empire.

And anyone who knows anything about the Empire's politics and feedback from some of the Imperial Officers can safely infere the WGC must be abolished or all this Civil War business will just happen again.

I do know about Imperial politics, that is what the problem is. The Emperor is assassinated without any known heir, we don't know if the entire Elder Council is behind it, or just one man. It could cause a good man to take the throne, it could cause a weak man like Thules the Gibbering who the Elder Council installed because he was Nibenese and could be manipulated.

They can't hide behind the WGC anymore, Gen Tullius realizes this and is on his way after Skyrim to speak to the Emperor on Skyrim's behalf. Would be alot easier if the Emperor wasn't around to have that conversation.

General Tullius will be in Skyrim for many years. Where is it said he's on his way to represent Skyrim?

Esp seeing how the Elder Council was forced to either go along with TMII or start turning on the Empire. If one quit listening to Ulfric's b*tching long enough to hear the Elder Councilman out, you get the picture. Of course, you'd have to be able to actually listen first, and like most devout Religious folks that I've had the pleasure of meeting, all they are is condemning while praising God for not condemning them.

How was the Elder Council forced? The Mede Dynasty was politically weak, and Imperial politics make it impossible for an Emperor to force anything, especially a treaty which is the Elder Council's domain.

 

[Jeremius]

*yawn* I never said anything about a war. DrunkenMage mentioned that...

So the "minor hints"? You admit then, that they are hints. The proper term for this would be subtle hints.

Furthermore, I find your naivety very interesting, what with refusing to acknowledge the little things. Same as Ulfric really... walking thru that wide gate... everyone falling him... no thinking required... No responsibility for your actions, yet Ulfric is looking to find the ones to blame.

Always searching for the answer to a question that has already been answered.

You said that the Elder Council wants to get rid of Mede because HE signed the WGC. There is nothing to prove that statement, as the guy who hires the assassin does not say anything about other members wanting to have Mede assassinated. The hints seem to be one man wanting to step beyond his station.

Point is, I find it hard for The Elder Council to want Mede Dead for the reasons you stated that the single member hires the DB for.

 

[Mookie]

Query though: Why does Ulfic have you do such silly things if you're a non-nord trying to join the Stormies and not a Nord? On both playthroughs where I did join Stormies as a non-nord (Imperial and a Breton) I was sent on some strange mission in to the ice fields to either kill ice-wraiths or frost trolls but I never experienced that on my 5 Nords. They just got sent to take care of someone. Just wondering.

It doesn't matter what race you are. Even as a Nord they send you to kill the Ice Wraith at least on my playthrough

Who's "Threki"? I remember the elf I put in jail and Maven's grandson(?) Sibbi. Was there someone else in the cells that I missed?

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Threki_the_Innocent

Hmm... I never experienced that on a Nord. Thanks for the info on Threki. I'll have to look when I get to Riften.

Its not silly, its Nordic tradition. At least he gives you provisions. Whereas the empire sends you alone, without any provisions, to take an entire fort by yourself. Which means they are basicaly sending people off to their deaths

 

[NENALATA]

​

 

[imaginepageant]

Nice try. Thalmor comment on several occasions it is the Emperor giving them license to operate in Skyrim.

The Elder Council is trying to assassinate him in order to stop this because TMII is bound to the WGC which he signed.

You've said it yourself (prior to turning on the Empire), that the WGC is his treaty and getting rid of him ensures putting an end to that piece of legislation.

You're obviously right, because whenever I assassinate the Emperor in the Dark Brotherhood questline, the Thalmor are kicked out of Skyrim, free worship of Talos is restored, the civil war ends, and peace is restored to the Empire.

Oh, wait...

 

[imaginepageant]

Throughout the game, unless you actually join up with them (and even if you do sometimes), Stormcloaks will agressively confront you where-ever you are and often attack you (on my many playthroughs the certainly have me). Now I would understand that if you were in the enemy army and/or even wearing one of their uniforms, but when you're just a layperson? Really?

What game are you playing?! This has never happened to me. Ever. Ever. I can, and do, stroll into any Stormcloak camp I want without issue. I listen to their conversations about why they joined the war. I listen to their suggestions that I go to Windhelm to join up, too. Sometimes I buy stuff from the quartermaster. Sometimes I steal all the potions I find in their tents. And no one so much as looks at me sideways. I've also run into several Stormcloak vs. Imperial skirmishes in the wild, sat back with some popcorn to watch, and then patted the victorious Stormcloaks on the back, and they merely gave me their spiel about sending any true sons and daughters of Skyrim to Windhelm. None have ever attacked me. Oh, and then there's all the time I spend in Windhelm, a city chock full of Stormcloaks—and in the Palace of the Kings, also chock full of Stormcloaks, including their leader! All this peaceful Stormcloak interaction, and I've never, ever been attacked by any of them. And I have never heard of random Stormcloak attacks on an unaligned player from anyone else.

 

[Mookie]

Throughout the game, unless you actually join up with them (and even if you do sometimes), Stormcloaks will agressively confront you where-ever you are and often attack you (on my many playthroughs the certainly have me). Now I would understand that if you were in the enemy army and/or even wearing one of their uniforms, but when you're just a layperson? Really?

What game are you playing?! This has never happened to me. Ever. Ever. I can, and do, stroll into any Stormcloak camp I want without issue. I listen to their conversations about why they joined the war. I listen to their suggestions that I go to Windhelm to join up, too. Sometimes I buy stuff from the quartermaster. Sometimes I steal all the potions I find in their tents. And no one so much as looks at me sideways. I've also run into several Stormcloak vs. Imperial skirmishes in the wild, sat back with some popcorn to watch, and then patted the victorious Stormcloaks on the back, and they merely gave me their spiel about sending any true sons and daughters of Skyrim to Windhelm. None have ever attacked me. Oh, and then there's all the time I spend in Windhelm, a city chock full of Stormcloaks—and in the Palace of the Kings, also chock full of Stormcloaks, including their leader! All this peaceful Stormcloak interaction, and I've never, ever been attacked by any of them. And I have never heard of random Stormcloak attacks on an unaligned player from anyone else.

True. I experienced Imperial soldiers attacking me if I dont "Move allong citizen". I have never experiencing a Stormcloak attacking me

 

[DrunkenMage]

What game are you playing?! This has never happened to me. Ever. Ever. I can, and do, stroll into any Stormcloak camp I want without issue. I listen to their conversations about why they joined the war. I listen to their suggestions that I go to Windhelm to join up, too. Sometimes I buy stuff from the quartermaster. Sometimes I steal all the potions I find in their tents. And no one so much as looks at me sideways. I've also run into several Stormcloak vs. Imperial skirmishes in the wild, sat back with some popcorn to watch, and then patted the victorious Stormcloaks on the back, and they merely gave me their spiel about sending any true sons and daughters of Skyrim to Windhelm. None have ever attacked me. Oh, and then there's all the time I spend in Windhelm, a city chock full of Stormcloaks—and in the Palace of the Kings, also chock full of Stormcloaks, including their leader! All this peaceful Stormcloak interaction, and I've never, ever been attacked by any of them. And I have never heard of random Stormcloak attacks on an unaligned player from anyone else.

It could be something related to Season Unending, I have found sometimes when I have completed the truce and it has slightly favored one side, you're no longer unaligned to them.

I've had Imperials call me Auxiliary and Stormcloaks warn me away like I was an enemy (Before I chose a side), so I would assume it is a bug caused by the quest.

 

[DrunkenMage]

"Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his Empire. And Torygg wasn't ready to let it fall apart." - Sybille Stentor


So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the Legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty. - Aspect of Tiber Septim

Even Tiber himself, was letting go of the Empire. Imperials are clinging to an Empire long past it's expiration date.