Is it just me or is it difficult making a character to side with the Stormcloaks?

[osheao]

Don't tell me you honestly believe the Stormcloaks wouldn't have done the same had they captured Tullius and his boys.

the stormcloaks would have been committing the morally correct decision.

true righteousness and justice isn't dependent upon the rulings of men in their own time.

the imperials instantly forfeited all their power in skyrim with their treason.

 

[osheao]

Torygg had no choice! He could have either fought Ulfric or lose his throne.

torygg knew the nord customs, accepted and lost.

the nord ways are their own.

 

[Janus3003]

It only depends on for what reason they are being executed. Tullius commited treason towards skyrim and her people for trying to execute the High King.

...the same "High King" that they're fighting against? He was captured in battle and his paying the price for his crimes. It's not like he was just hanging about and they grabbed him in the middle of the night to kill him when there was no official conflict going on.
And for crying out loud, he's not the High King. Even if the Moot can't be held due to the war (which can be blamed on Ulfric), the throne still doesn't belong to Ulfric.

 

[Kalin of High Rock]

Shouldn't of Torygg known what he was up against? Need I remind you that Torygg ACCEPTED his challenge? Like i said before, both men utilized their weapons to the fullest, and Ulfric won.

Ulfric put the king (Who was little more than a boy, I remind you) into a situation where he could NOT refuse the insult of a challenge. He challenged him before his court, in his own city. If Torygg refused, he would have been seen as weak and cowardly and unfit to rule.

Ulfric put someone he knew he could defeat in a position where he had no choice but to face him by taking advantage of local customs. He's a calculating bully.

 

[Serebro Moniker]

the stormcloaks would have been committing the morally correct decision.

true righteousness and justice isn't dependent upon the rulings of men in their own time.

the imperials instantly forfeited all their power in skyrim with their treason.

No treason was committed.
And the point still stands that Ulfric is an oath-breaker. He took the oath to the join the Imperial legion, then committed the crime of high treason against the Empire by killing off Toryyg in unfair combat and starting a war.

 

[Valyn]

Ulfric put the king (Who was little more than a boy, I remind you) into a situation where he could NOT refuse the insult of a challenge. He challenged him before his court, in his own city. If Torygg refused, he would have been seen as weak and cowardly and unfit to rule.

Ulfric put someone he knew he could defeat in a position where he had no choice but to face him by taking advantage of local customs. He's a calculating bully.

This is why I think Bethesda screwed up. Ulfric isn't stupid, he knows he could of beat Torygg without even breaking a sweat without the Thu'um. But the makers just HAD to make it unfair so there could be a decent story-line. Bethesda just had to make the stormcloaks and ulfric racist so the sides could be even.

 

[Serebro Moniker]

Also, to everybody calling Ulfric an innocent man: are you all forgetting about the slaughter at Kynesgrove?

 

[Serebro Moniker]

This is why I think Bethesda screwed up. Ulfric isn't stupid, he knows he could of beat Torygg without even breaking a sweat without the Thu'um. But the makers just HAD to make it unfair so there could be a decent story-line. Bethesda just had to make the stormcloaks and ulfric racist so the sides could be even.

No, they made the Stormcloaks racist and Ulfric a bigoted, treacherous bastard to make the civil war a more interesting story. If the Empire were blatantly evil and the Stormcloaks were obviously heroes th whole thing would be boring.

 

[Valyn]

Also, to everybody calling Ulfric an innocent man: are you all forgetting about the slaughter at Kynesgrove?

Kynesgrove? Don't you mean Markarth? Ulfric was HIRED to do that.

 

[Janus3003]

This is why I think Bethesda screwed up. Ulfric isn't stupid, he knows he could of beat Torygg without even breaking a sweat without the Thu'um. But the makers just HAD to make it unfair so there could be a decent story-line. Bethesda just had to make the stormcloaks and ulfric racist so the sides could be even.

People tend to be morally complex as opposed to straight heroes/villains.
Welcome to life.

 

[Kalin of High Rock]

This is why I think Bethesda screwed up. Ulfric isn't stupid, he knows he could of beat Torygg without even breaking a sweat without the Thu'um. But the makers just HAD to make it unfair so there could be a decent story-line. Bethesda just had to make the stormcloaks and ulfric racist so the sides could be even.

Ulfric defeated Tyrgg with the Thu'um because it made for a "better song".

The man has a canny political mind, and he hopes to manipulate the people of Skyrim with tales of his own inflated (and somewhat manufactured) legend. Defeating the High-King with sword and shield just doesn't have the same artistic appeal as shouting him to bits with the power of The Voice, like some hero of legend.

 

[Valyn]

People tend to be morally complex as opposed to straight heroes/villains.
Welcome to life.

That has nothing to do with what i was talking about.

 

[Docta Corvina]

This is why I think Bethesda screwed up. Ulfric isn't stupid, he knows he could of beat Torygg without even breaking a sweat without the Thu'um. But the makers just HAD to make it unfair so there could be a decent story-line. Bethesda just had to make the stormcloaks and ulfric racist so the sides could be even.

Actually, I think Bethesda did it to show that Ulfric isn't god. And that he's more than susceptible to mortal desires for status and a conceivable personal legend.

Neither side is blemish free, that much we know. And at the end of the day, giving Ulfric very human flaws and negative characteristics is not merely a way of evening the score/playing field, morality wise. It's about showing the consequences that come with each and every character. Nothing in this game is clear cut, as much as any of us might think it all is.

 

[Serebro Moniker]

Kynesgrove? Don't you mean Markarth? Ulfric was HIRED to do that.

No, no I don't.
There was a slaughter at Kynesgrove orchestrated by Ulfric (at least I think it was Kynesgrove, but the location doesn't really matter) during the war before the game begins. It can be mentioned by Tullius during the meeting at High Hrothgar.

 

[Janus3003]

That has nothing to do with what i was talking about.

It most certainly does. Giving Ulfric character flaws makes him a much more human character. I doubt the original plan was to make him a flawless, shining White Knight.

 

[Valyn]

Nothing in this game is clear cut, as much as any of us might think it all is.

Well, than YOU are certainly unbiased in the Stormcloak vs Empire.

 

[Valyn]

It most certainly does. Giving Ulfric character flaws makes him a much more human character. I doubt the original plan was to make him a flawless, shining White Knight.

I'm not even going to respond to you anymore, because nothing you say makes sense.

 

[Docta Corvina]

Well, than YOU are certainly unbiased in the Stormcloak vs Empire.

I have never claimed that there are not issues on the Imperial side as well. It would be highly naive to say otherwise. However, for me personally, I find the Imperial cause worthy of my support, for a variety of reasons. Even with all of the inherent issues. For others, the cause of the opposing side weighs more. I can accept that.

 

[Valyn]

No, no I don't.

(at least I think it was Kynesgrove, but the location doesn't really matter) during the war before the game begins. It can be mentioned by Tullius during the meeting at High Hrothgar.

Contradict much? And TULLIUS is the one telling you, hes just talking smask 'bout ulfric.

 

[osheao]

Actually, I think Bethesda did it to show that Ulfric isn't god. And that he's more than susceptible to mortal desires for status and a conceivable personal legend.

Neither side is blemish free, that much we know. And at the end of the day, giving Ulfric very human flaws and negative characteristics is not merely a way of evening the score/playing field, morality wise. It's about showing the consequences that come with each and every character. Nothing in this game is clear cut, as much as any of us might think it all is.

of course, all humans have flaws.

when listening to ulfric speak uninterrupted within his castle i know the man believes he is doing what is right. he fights for skyrim and her people because he must.

his moral ground is solid.

the imperials have none.