Is it just me or is it difficult making a character to side with the Stormcloaks?

[Somohexual]

From a lore perspective the Stormcloaks hate/fear just about every race that isn't Nord while the Empire, as a whole, seems very racially tolerant. I intended on siding with the Stormcloaks before playing Skyrim because it seems to have been set up to look like the "good" faction but my first character was a Dark Elf. Needless to say, one visit to Windhelm quickly changed my mind.


There's no reason any of the non-Nord races would join the Stormcloaks...

Orcs? They have a good relationship with the Empire due to their valuable smithing abilities and military prowess. In fact, I think the only socially acceptable reason for leaving one's stronghold is if an Orc goes off to serve the Legion. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Khajiit? Not allowed into any cities in Skyrim and are instead forced to travel in trade caravans.

Argonians? Riften is the only city that "accepts" them, and given the city's reputation that isn't really saying much. In Windhelm they're treated even worse than the Dark Elves who are at least allowed inside the city.

Altmer? Tolerated by Nordic society (by force) but largely hated/distrusted by individual Nords.

Dunmer? They've been allowed to stay as refugees in Windhelm after fleeing from Morrowind but that's about the limit of Ulfric's hospitality/tolerance. The city has segregated living areas so the Dunmer are forced to live in a ghetto, which the Stormcloaks ignore and neglect, and the city's Nords aren't exactly friendly either. On the other hand, when the Imperials take Windhelm one of the new Jarl's first concerns is improving the quality of life for local Argonians and Dunmer. Winterhold doesn't seem too trusting of them either due to their association with the College.

Imperials? Publicly hated by the Stormcloaks, due to being the major race of the Empire, and thought to be corrupt/power hungry/cowards.

Redguards and Bosmer? The only two races that are tolerated, and only that, by the Stormcloaks and most of Skyrim. Faendal's "Riverwood's agreeable enough, I suppose. For a Nord village." and Amren's "Hmph. No, friend, that I'm not. But I get along with your kind well enough." (if the player is a Nord) are evidence of this. Even then, the Stormcloaks want to rid Skyrim of all non-Nords and don't view the Redguards or Bosmer as allies so this tolerance is only temporary.


I want to see the game from the Stormcloak's side, as I've already sided with the Empire, but I'm not very fond of playing a Nord and I can't get myself to join them with any other race. :/

 

[Serebro Moniker]

Ah, thank you. This is why I've only joined the Stormcloaks once, as a Nord.
It's just not feasible to join the Stormcloaks as a non-Nord. It looks like Bethesda were trying too hard here.
For instance, look at this possible conversation with Brunwulf Free-Winter.

'What about you? You one of those 'Skyrim for the Nords' types?'
'Yes. Outsiders like me have no place here.'

What?
What?!
Come on now Bethesda. Surely they can do better than that.

 

[Neriad13]

I once made a character for whom I had plans to join the Stormcloaks. It was going to be my one and only Stormcloak character. Then I came to Windhelm and had a chat with Ulfric. After all that, I just couldn't do it. To this day that remains the one major questline that I haven't yet done.

 

[Janus3003]

Have to admit that I would have liked to see more evidence of racial tensions in Skyrim. Not just words, but actions. Khajiit PCs should have to do a lot of crap before being allowed to (freely) enter the cities. Non-Nords shouldn't be allowed in the Stormcloaks, or at least they shouldn't be trusted with much. Playing an Imperial character, I should periodically find myself in trouble when a bunch of thugs try to beat me up at night.
I also would love it if your actions limited what guilds/factions you could join and even who you could marry (why would a nice guy like Farkas marry the Dark Brotherhood Listener!?).

 

[BigBad]

My starter character was a Nord who joined the Stormcloaks mainly because he followed Ralof instead of Hadvar, and the Empire had just tried to cut his head off. My main character, however, is an Orc who is Legion all the way and loves proving to Nords that no matter how big those swords and axes get, they're still not the best warriors around.

Two things have turned me off from ever going back to the Stormcloak side with future characters.
1. Overt and blatant racism. Everybody in Tamriel is kinda racist and always has been, but the Empire is definitely the more tolerant and egalitarian option. A single visit to Windhelm is extremely enlightening. I do find it amusing, though, that the Dunmer in Windhelm are segregated, but the resident Altmer are basically given free run of the city.
2. Ulfric is a jerk. Straight up. Dude's just plain not cool. Even if you agree one hundred percent with his jingoistic nationalism, he's still a jerk. At one point, he delivers what seems to be a very heartfelt and passionate speech about his motivations (the I Fight Because speech), until you realize that he's practicing. He delivered that speech to basically an empty throne room and an audience consisting of his seneschal, his chief advisor, and the Dragonborn. That's when you really start to get the idea that basically everything about Ulfric is politically calculated and his later dialogue after capturing Solitude more or less confirms it.

 

[Kalin of High Rock]

I have a hard time of it.

Elder Scrolls games have hardwired me to support the Empire, the fact that I'm never a nord plays into the decision as well. The Empire in The Elder Scrolls games has always gone a good way to avoid "the evil empire" tropes common in popular fantasy and science fiction. They're a civilizing body, respectful of their client cultures (to a point), that promotes equality to all citizens. Though, it occasionally steps on a few toes.

The Empire recognizes orcs, khajiit and argonians as equals and citizens, not as slaves and monsters.

The Thalmor dossiers shed a bit of suspicion on Ulfric Stormcloak. In addition to that, he seems a power-hungry demagogue, to me. I don't believe he has the interest of Skyrim and her people at heart, rather of Ulfric and his ego.

 

[Docta Corvina]

That's when you really start to get the idea that basically everything about Ulfric is politically calculated and his later dialogue after capturing Solitude more or less confirms it.

Absolutely, I could not agree more. Not only the dialogue immediately after the battle for Solitude, but also that near the end of the battle for Windhelm, in which he says he prefers the Dragonborn to kill him because "it would make for a better song". It's all very telling.

As far as this thread overall, I feel quite similarly. It's the questline I just cannot bring myself to complete, given all that I've seen while traveling and considering the situation overall with the Thalmor - even as a totally war-neutral character. I do my research about the Stormcloak quests for debating and story-telling. But as far as actually doing them myself? I highly doubt that will ever happen.

 

[Janus3003]

but also that near the end of the battle for Windhelm, in which he says he prefers the Dragonborn to kill him because "it would make for a better song". It's all very telling.

The moment he said that, I let Tullius finish him off.
A friend of mine gave Ulfric his song. The song that he deserved, but not the song that he needed.

 

[Docta Corvina]

The moment he said that, I let Tullius finish him off.
A friend of mine gave Ulfric his song. The song that he deserved, but not the song that he needed.

Haha, that is excellent! Also, random, but it tickles me that your dA icon is Ganondorf. That has made my day. =P

I think with my first character, I finished him off with Ice Form, which was sufficiently humiliating for him. But I also hadn't heard him say the bit about preferring me to kill him. The next times around with different characters, I did hear that line, and I always quite happily let Tullius do it.

 

[osheao]

i have the easiest time joining the stormcloaks. the nords are in the middle of a war within their country. the imperials bowed down to the thalmor and agreed to the banning of talos, though, they had no power to do so. ulfric rightfully challenged and defeated the treacherous high king. the imperials attempted to assassinate ulfric in a cowardly and devious way. the imperials overstepped their bounds and are now paying for it.

the nord's are rightfully proud. they don't fear anyone.

they'd be fools to place their absolute trust in the other races.

skyrim is the land of the nords.

 

[Janus3003]

ulfric rightfully challenged and defeated the treacherous high king.

...wha?
From what I understand, Torygg probably would have gone along with Ulfric had Ulfric simply, you know, talked to him instead of shouting his face off.

the imperials attempted to assassinate ulfric in a cowardly and devious way. the imperials overstepped their bounds and are now paying for it.

...when? How? Capturing him in a skirmish and executing him when they're at war with each other? That's pretty fair game, really.

 

[bulbaquil]

Oh, not at all. If anything, I have a harder time joining the Imperials.

 

[Docta Corvina]

Oh, not at all. If anything, I have a harder time joining the Imperials.

Bulba, it's a wonder sometimes how you and I manage to get along so well. I'm glad we do though!

 

[Serebro Moniker]

Oh, not at all. If anything, I have a harder time joining the Imperials.

Lolwut.

 

[Dragon Kin]

My very first skyrim character was a nord, I joined the storm cloaks but only played to lvl 15 then scrapped it for a new character. I've played about 8 characters total now and only 1 has been a storm cloak. 3 have been imperial and 4 no side

 

[osheao]

torygg was a traitor and a fool. he was judas to skyrim.
he got challenged fairly... and got blasted. his youth and so-called favorable disposition towards ulfric matter not. the nord customs are their own.

maybe, someone with true knowledge of proper imperial conduct during war can chime in, but, as the rightful high kind of skyrim i'd bet against a captain of the guard having the right to formally execute ulfric.

and, besides, the imperials should have peacefully withdrawn from skyrim and granted the nords independence from the outset. instead, they committed treachery and treason against the nords, their culture and land. the imperials, therefore, forfeit all.

 

[Valyn]

I think, that if Bethesda had not of made the Stormcloaks so racist, more people would join them. See, because if you look past their racism(as so many of you empire-supporters DON'T) , the Stormcloaks cause is far better than the Empire. The Empire is like an overprotective Parent, and the Stormcloak is like a rebellious child trying to move away. The Empire is just mad that they lost the Great War, so they don't want to let Skyrim become independent.And when Bethesda first made the Stormcloaks vs Empire, they realized that the Stormcloaks are better, so they are like, "Oops, we have to put in a power-hungry and racist ruler to make it even." Don't support the Empire, its a lost cause. And after it falls, WHO do you think will come right in and slaughter off the survivors? The THALMOR! Ulfric is the only won who can stop them.

 

[Janus3003]

torygg was a traitor and a fool. he was judas to skyrim.

[citation needed]

maybe, someone with true knowledge of proper imperial conduct during war can chime in, but, as the rightful high kind of skyrim i'd bet against a captain of the guard having the right to formally execute ulfric.

The captain may not have authority, but you'll notice that the ranking officer was General Tullius himself. I think it's safe to say that he very much has the right to execute the leader of the opposing army.

 

[Valyn]

torygg was a traitor and a fool. he was judas to skyrim.
he got challenged fairly... and got blasted. his youth and so-called favorable disposition towards ulfric matter not. the nord customs are their own.

maybe, someone with true knowledge of proper imperial conduct during war can chime in, but, as the rightful high kind of skyrim i'd bet against a captain of the guard having the right to formally execute ulfric.

and, besides, the imperials should have peacefully withdrawn from skyrim and granted the nords independence from the outset. instead, they committed treachery and treason against the nords, their culture and land. the imperials, therefore, forfeit all.

Yes, the Imperials had NO right to execute any of those Stormcloaks. Cowards,

 

[Valyn]

The captain may not have authority, but you'll notice that the ranking officer was General Tullius himself. I think it's safe to say that he very much has the right to execute the leader of the opposing army.

Umm, no. Ulfric challenged Toygg in fair combat, and won. Then the Empire got upset because of something that they don't have authority over, and decides to take over.