Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Jeremius]

That would be extreme racism. You can be a racist, without being an extremist.

If he isn't ignoring people that aren't Dunmer and then ignoring Dunmer that would be racist, but he doesn't do that he doesn't give a handou to anyone


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That is why I said his focus on the Civil War is racist. It is because the cause of the rebellion is somewhat racist.

like a Caucasian man hanging out only with other Caucasians, even if he has no problems with African Americans.

 

[Jeremius]

Just going to say, racism is more than just kicking out other races. Ulfric's focus on a Nord/human cause can be seen as racist, due to the fact that he is not pay attention to the needs of the non-Nord/non-human population.

So many things can be taken out of context. It totally blows my mind away when I read these debates from here and on other forums.

It's so easy to call a white blonde haired Nord a racist for focusing on human/Nord cause (Thalmor wants to enslave all human race) yet the sounds of crickets spreads when a Dunmer says something racist.

Ulfric is a racist but not the Dunmers? Yet so many Imperial/Empire lovers and supporters wants to victimized the Dunmers by calling Ulfric a racist for not spending highly needed resources for their needs. What is the FRICKEN LOGIC behind this?

I need to remind myself to shave my head prior to coming to this particular thread so I don't damage my hair follicles through physically ripping them out from my scalp from the inconsistent logic that is being spread.

I think the Dunmer can be racist as well. Racism can be as little as apathy towards other races/focusing on your own (like the Civil War) or as bad as wanting to kill all members of races not your own.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

I think the Dunmer can be racist as well. Racism can be as little as apathy towards other races/focusing on your own (like the Civil War) or as bad as wanting to kill all members of races not your own.

I think it has less to do with lack of apathy because of race and more to do with lack of apathy because if bitching and because of the civil war


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[Mikulas Black-Blade]

That is why I said his focus on the Civil War is racist. It is because the cause of the rebellion is somewhat racist.

like a Caucasian man hanging out only with other Caucasians, even if he has no problems with African Americans.

But my point is he doesn't give handouts to anyone regardless of race. That's why it's not racist


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[Jeremius]

That is why I said his focus on the Civil War is racist. It is because the cause of the rebellion is somewhat racist.

like a Caucasian man hanging out only with other Caucasians, even if he has no problems with African Americans.

But my point is he doesn't give handouts to anyone regardless of race. That's why it's not racist


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Maybe you need to re-read the post. I never talked about him not giving handouts.

 

[Zoblazo]

Just going to say, racism is more than just kicking out other races. Ulfric's focus on a Nord/human cause can be seen as racist, due to the fact that he is not pay attention to the needs of the non-Nord/non-human population.

So many things can be taken out of context. It totally blows my mind away when I read these debates from here and on other forums.

It's so easy to call a white blonde haired Nord a racist for focusing on human/Nord cause (Thalmor wants to enslave all human race) yet the sounds of crickets spreads when a Dunmer says something racist.
Ulfric is a racist but not the Dunmers? Yet so many Imperial/Empire lovers and supporters wants to victimized the Dunmers by calling Ulfric a racist for not spending highly needed resources for their needs. What is the FRICKEN LOGIC behind this?

I need to remind myself to shave my head prior to coming to this particular thread so I don't damage my hair follicles through physically ripping them out from my scalp from the inconsistent logic that is being spread.

Nobody's justifying what the Dunmers say about the Nords. In fact they're racist too, but thing is, they're not sitting on that throne. We're the ones that should be ripping out our hair with you people justifying Ulfric's wrong-doings. Bleh.

 

[DrunkenMage]

If he isn't ignoring people that aren't Dunmer and then ignoring Dunmer that would be racist, but he doesn't do that he doesn't give a handou to anyone


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Others aren't bringing concerns to him. They're not asking for a handout, where do you even get that from?

It isn't just the Dunmer who are claiming Ulfric ignores them and is just content with leaving their situation as is.

The author of Scourge of the Gray Quarter also believes Ulfric is that way. There is cause for optimism, though, as Jarl Ulfric is not nearly so tolerant of these substandard beings as his fathers were.

When the main racists and xenophobes are believing Ulfric supports their views, there is a problem. There isn't a double sided coin on this issue, not once does Ulfric condemn that behavior.

The Argonians and Dunmer are saying their problems come from Ulfric and the Stormcloaks.

"Whenever a group of marauders attack a Nord village, Ulfric is the first to sound the horn and send the men. But a group of Dark Elf refugees gets ambushed? A group of Argonians, or a Khajiit caravan? No troops. No investigation. Nothing. There's a group of cutthroats out there right now that Ulfric doesn't lift a finger to bring to justice, as long as they don't threaten Nord land." - Brunwulf

Now that is a pretty big accusation from Brunwulf, but we're given nothing from Ulfric's camp to refute it. Even again about why the Argonians are outside, Brunwulf says it is due to racial problems with Nords who think as Ulfric does.

 

[Lewsean]

If he isn't ignoring people that aren't Dunmer and then ignoring Dunmer that would be racist, but he doesn't do that he doesn't give a handou to anyone


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Others aren't bringing concerns to him. They're not asking for a handout, where do you even get that from?

It isn't just the Dunmer who are claiming Ulfric ignores them and is just content with leaving their situation as is.

The author of Scourge of the Gray Quarter also believes Ulfric is that way. There is cause for optimism, though, as Jarl Ulfric is not nearly so tolerant of these substandard beings as his fathers were.

When the main racists and xenophobes are believing Ulfric supports their views, there is a problem. There isn't a double sided coin on this issue, not once does Ulfric condemn that behavior.

The Argonians and Dunmer are saying their problems come from Ulfric and the Stormcloaks.

"Whenever a group of marauders attack a Nord village, Ulfric is the first to sound the horn and send the men. But a group of Dark Elf refugees gets ambushed? A group of Argonians, or a Khajiit caravan? No troops. No investigation. Nothing. There's a group of cutthroats out there right now that Ulfric doesn't lift a finger to bring to justice, as long as they don't threaten Nord land." - Brunwulf

Now that is a pretty big accusation from Brunwulf, but we're given nothing from Ulfric's camp to refute it. Even again about why the Argonians are outside, Brunwulf says it is due to racial problems with Nords who think as Ulfric does.

Jarl Siddgeir(An Imperial Jarl) has a deal with local bandits. I guess that doesn't matter though, for the good of the Empire and all that.

Not really, like we've said one million times before if he was racist he wouldn't even allow any other race in his Hold let alone his city.


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That would be extreme racism. You can be a racist, without being an extremist.

Really? Your arguments over the past few pages have been terrible by your standards.. You're either racist or not racist, there's no inbetween.

 

[DrunkenMage]

It's so easy to call a white blonde haired Nord a racist for focusing on human/Nord cause (Thalmor wants to enslave all human race) yet the sounds of crickets spreads when a Dunmer says something racist.

It has nothing to do with him being white, it has to do with the fact he's a politician. Ulfric is the ruler of Eastmarch (All of Skyrim if you're a Stormcloak) he has a duty to all the citizens in his realm.

"I haven't forgotten that a Jarl's first duty is to look after his people." - Dengeir

Ulfric's people are everyone living under his care and protection. Even the bimbo Elisif is able to figure that out.

The Thalmor are against every race Raijin, everyone who isn't a Thalmor. Dunmer and Orcs would especially get far more punishment than Nords, to the Thalmor they're an affront to elven perfection and purity.

Ulfric is a racist but not the Dunmers? Yet so many Imperial/Empire lovers and supporters wants to victimized the Dunmers by calling Ulfric a racist for not spending highly needed resources for their needs. What is the FRICKEN LOGIC behind this?

Ulfric is the Jarl and contender High King, a racist Dunmer shopkeeper doesn't compare. Put yourself in his shoes too, being treated like dirt and considered lesser than Nords. I'm sure you wouldn't be saying how lovely they are, and how nice they are.

Racial hatred spreads. Do you say nice things about the Thalmor?

And for the last god damn time... They are not asking Ulfric give them resources this instant, they're asking he acknowledges their concerns and stops ignoring them.

The Empire hasn't been in charge for that long, and real change takes time. - Aval Atheron

 

[Raijin]

I think the Dunmer can be racist as well. Racism can be as little as apathy towards other races/focusing on your own (like the Civil War) or as bad as wanting to kill all members of races not your own.

It's far easier to call a white Nord a racist rather than a Dunmer. This kind of pattern is quite common in the real world, well in my country that is. It's easy to bring this kind of behavior into a fictional world of politics.

A white cop shoots an unarmed black male - National to international news plus protesting and looting. (Michael Brown case)

A black cop shoots an unarmed white male - No protesting and no international to national news. (Dillon Taylor case)

I'm starting to agree with the Imperials here... Ulfric is a bad man.

 

[Jeremius]

I think the Dunmer can be racist as well. Racism can be as little as apathy towards other races/focusing on your own (like the Civil War) or as bad as wanting to kill all members of races not your own.

It's far easier to call a white Nord a racist rather than a Dunmer. This kind of pattern is quite common in the real world, well in my country that is. It's easy to bring this kind of behavior into a fictional world of politics.

A white cop shoots an unarmed black male - National to international news plus protesting and looting. (Michael Brown case)

A black cop shoots an unarmed white male - No protesting and no international to national news. (Dillon Taylor case)

I'm starting to agree with the Imperials here... Ulfric is a bad man.

You are misunderstanding what I was saying.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Others aren't bringing concerns to him. They're not asking for a handout, where do you even get that from?

ladies and gentlemen I present to you Blood on The Ice.

It isn't just the Dunmer who are claiming Ulfric ignores them and is just content with leaving their situation as is.

The author of Scourge of the Gray Quarter also believes Ulfric is that way. There is cause for optimism, though, as Jarl Ulfric is not nearly so tolerant of these substandard beings as his fathers were.

When the main racists and xenophobes are believing Ulfric supports their views, there is a problem. There isn't a double sided coin on this issue, not once does Ulfric condemn that behavior.

Explain to me how he's supposed to speak out against it, just give me an example of how he's supposed to do that.

The Argonians and Dunmer are saying their problems come from Ulfric and the Stormcloaks.

And yet their problems still exist when the Imperials take over.

"Whenever a group of marauders attack a Nord village, Ulfric is the first to sound the horn and send the men. But a group of Dark Elf refugees gets ambushed? A group of Argonians, or a Khajiit caravan? No troops. No investigation. Nothing. There's a group of cutthroats out there right now that Ulfric doesn't lift a finger to bring to justice, as long as they don't threaten Nord land." - Brunwulf

Now that is a pretty big accusation from Brunwulf, but we're given nothing from Ulfric's camp to refute it. Even again about why the Argonians are outside, Brunwulf says it is due to racial problems with Nords who think as Ulfric does.

Let me just get this Brunwulf thing out of the way: The man is a hypocrite. it's just as Raijin said, he claims to be this big Proponent for Dunmer and Argonian equality yet we never see him in the New Gnisis Cornerclub and you never see him say anything to the Jarl, he just sits at the table and eats, the man is also in love with Elda Early-Dawn the racist innkeeper at the Mead Hall. Let's not forget that he does NOTHING about the Argonian situation and we see no change for the better in the Gray-Quarter. Now Brunwulf has pretty much zero credibility and no political place in Windhelm,(unless the Imperials gale over) so when he is he only NPC who says that Ulfric doesn't help Non Nordic people you'll have to forgive me for taking his word with a grain of salt.


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[Zoblazo]

I think the Dunmer can be racist as well. Racism can be as little as apathy towards other races/focusing on your own (like the Civil War) or as bad as wanting to kill all members of races not your own.

It's far easier to call a white Nord a racist rather than a Dunmer. This kind of pattern is quite common in the real world, well in my country that is. It's easy to bring this kind of behavior into a fictional world of politics.

A white cop shoots an unarmed black male - National to international news plus protesting and looting. (Michael Brown case)

A black cop shoots an unarmed white male - No protesting and no international to national news. (Dillon Taylor case)

I'm starting to agree with the Imperials here... Ulfric is a bad man.

We've clearly acknowledged the fact that the Dunmers are racist as well. Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not about that last part.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

like a Caucasian man hanging out only with other Caucasians, even if he has no problems with African Americans.

then that's not racist, that's just hanging out with people you're familiar with, and please don't say "African American" to describe all Black People or "Caucasian" to describe all White People, you can say black or white, no one will get offended.



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[Jeremius]

like a Caucasian man hanging out only with other Caucasians, even if he has no problems with African Americans.

then that's not racist, that's just hanging out with people you're familiar with, and please don't say "African American" to describe all Black People or "Caucasian" to describe all White People, you can say black or white, no one will get offended.



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Maybe not to you, but to others it might be. Racism is clearly a subjective thing.

 

[Zoblazo]

like a Caucasian man hanging out only with other Caucasians, even if he has no problems with African Americans.

then that's not racist, that's just hanging out with people you're familiar with, and please don't say "African American" to describe all Black People or "Caucasian" to describe all White People, you can say black or white, no one will get offended.



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Although what you say might be true, you don't speak for everyone.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Jarl Siddgeir(An Imperial Jarl) has a deal with local bandits. I guess that doesn't matter though, for the good of the Empire and all that.

It does matter, but he isn't going for High King. I have made it quite well known I don't like Siddgeir or support his decisions.

Really? Your arguments over the past few pages have been terrible by your standards.. You're either racist or not racist, there's no inbetween.

Racial segregation and discrimination. Sounds like that could be racism... But obviously not cause he didn't kill them or kick them out of Skyrim.

I haven't stated Ulfric is an extreme racist, hates all non-Nords and seeks to kick them out of Skyrim. His cause has racial overtones and he does nothing to ease racial tensions coming from his supporters.

Doing nothing doesn't make him better.

I wouldn't be commenting on the standards of my arguments, not after that post of yours of trying to equate landmass to population.

Also for your benefit, since you keep going about about there is no segregation. That people should look at the meaning.

the practice or policy of keeping people of different races, religions, etc., separate from each other

Gray Quarter and Argonian Assemblage. Seems to fit segregation perfectly. They live apart from the other races.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Maybe not to you, but to others it might be. Racism is clearly a subjective thing.

I just don't know why people feel the need to call a black person an "African American" if he's not a person originally from Africa who then move to America, even if he has ancestry there. I mean, I have ancestry in Scotland would you call me a Scottish American, no you'd call me an American. And what do you call a Black Person from England an "African Englishman." No you call him black because everyone's not a PC Social Justice Warrior over there.


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[Jeremius]

Maybe not to you, but to others it might be. Racism is clearly a subjective thing.

I just don't know why people feel the need to call a black person an "African American" if he's not a person originally from Africa who then move to America, even if he has ancestry there. I mean, I have ancestry in Scotland would you call me a Scottish American, no you'd call me an American. And what do you call a Black Person from England an "African Englishman." No you call him black because everyone's not a PC Social Justice Warrior over there.


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Politically correct. "Black" can be seen as derogatory/racist.

 

[Lewsean]

Jarl Siddgeir(An Imperial Jarl) has a deal with local bandits. I guess that doesn't matter though, for the good of the Empire and all that.

It does matter, but he isn't going for High King. I have made it quite well known I don't like Siddgeir or support his decisions.

[/QUOTE]

But the Empire supports him.

Racial segregation and discrimination. Sounds like that could be racism... But obviously not cause he didn't kill them or kick them out of Skyrim.

I haven't stated Ulfric is an extreme racist, hates all non-Nords and seeks to kick them out of Skyrim. His cause has racial overtones and he does nothing to ease racial tensions coming from his supporters.

Doing nothing doesn't make him better.

I wouldn't be commenting on the standards of my arguments, not after that post of yours of trying to equate landmass to population.

Also for your benefit, since you keep going about about there is no segregation. That people should look at the meaning.

the practice or policy of keeping people of different races, religions, etc., separate from each other

Gray Quarter and Argonian Assemblage. Seems to fit segregation perfectly. They live apart from the other races.

But they aren't seperate lol, they all mingle with eachother. You can't label something as racial segregation when not all people of said race are segregated. Compare it to ACTUAL racial segregation of blacks during 20th century America. Nothing in Windhelm is a Dunmer or Nord only area, everyone is free to go where they like.