Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Thorek]

why is it that only the empire can defeat the thalmor? they've been doing such a great job so far... the justiciars can arrest people on the vague crime of "talos worship, possible talos worship and my favorite... might know about talos worship".

You meet an aspect of tiber septim in morrowind, he himself admits the empire is old and there needs to be something new. I don't think talos "cares" about your empire anymore. the empire obviously isn't trying very hard to stay alive if you think the stormcloaks fell into the thalmor ploy. the empire was warned about the thalmor over a hundred years ago. they sure did a great job with that information.

 

[DrunkenMage]

C'mon people, discuss and argue a little. I need something to read during my breaks.

You're like a lit match at a gas station. Keep setting this thread up into debate, haha.

 

[Secunda_]

Wow long post. i'll do my best with it. "Rebels win then what?" they prepare for the next great war exactly the same the empire claims they're doing. ulfric and galmar mention training their armies and that mankind standing together against the thalmor threat. Nords will be on the front lines.

The empire is practically dead. they lost their divine backing when martin sacrificed himself and the medes have done their best to keep the empire together even using daedric princes to aid them in doing so which is good.

The empire is already lacking proper resources and legion says that the empire is spread thin these days. they lack the ability to keep order inside cyrodiil where violence and cities erupting into chaos is the norm. if the Empire can't handle their capital province why should they rule over skyrim? imperials are draining more resources from skyrim than they're providing.

Empire is more than a bit corrupt. the council or at least motierre is ensuring the civil war goes on longer. Vici's wedding was seen as steps towards peace between stormcloaks and empire, she is killed to make titus go to skyrim only for him to be assassinated. Maven can bribe the imperial council. if one nord noble can do that who says the thalmor can't?

The Stormcloaks being a militia doesn't mean anything. they plan to train up their armies with ex-legionnaires and great war veterans. no different to the empire training new recruits. The Thalmor used Ulfric so what? Thalmor used the Empire too.

Markarth was caused by empire supporters and the empire itself. Ulfric was hired to retake the Reach from the Forsworn, he didn't bring the thalmor to skyrim they were allowed to do that by the treaty. if you're talking about what alvor says he is speaking about the empire enforcing the ban too "emperor forced to crack down" not "thalmor came here".

The markarth incident took place months after the white-gold concordat was signed. hardly a long amount of time of private worship. thalmor justiciars arrived in skyrim around that time, has nothing to do with ulfric doing this or that. they demanded ulfric be arrested but it was the treaty that brought them to skyrim.

This thread was made for debating practically, yet nobody has truly made any long efforted arguments thus far.

Lets just say remarkably Ulfric and his bandwagon of Nords win the Civil War. After they win they, along with the Empire, will be at a point of weakness. The Stormcloaks can barely even fend off ONE of the Empire's weakened Legions that has been sent to Skyrim. What makes you think they'll be able to hold off another Imperial invasion, AND to have the strength to attack the Dominion? Skyrim will be weakened further as it relies HEAVILY on Imperial resources, coin, and trade as evident in-game. Once they win the war, such resources will be cut. Skyrim will also have to make its own currency and such, thus leading to inflation and a moship of economic troubles as well. What a headache..

What are you on about? Cyrodiil isn't under any form of chaos or revolt. Show me in-game dialogue or quote where it says this specifically.

No. Montierre is a corrupt member of the Elder Council seeking a new Emperor to lead the Empire. He doesn't care of Skyrim's political matters as he is in it for himself. He wishes to change the Empire as he sees fit (hence why I always kill him in return, lol). Vici's wedding wasn't a peaceful gesture at all. Even at the wedding you have Pro-Stormcloaks complaining and showing their hatred of their Imperial foe. Titus being assassinated is honestly what the Empire needs in the first place. Titus II did his part and saved both the Empire AND humanity from the Elves, now it is time for a heir to step up to the plate without carrying his father's political hatred. Although I do agree it is rather silly being able to kill the Emperor of Tamriel so easily.

Let me simplify; before the Markarth incident all was good basically. The Empire was rebuilding, Talos worship was still allowed but in secret, and the Elves were content. But, the treaty was only enforced AFTER the Incident. AFTER Ulfric made the worship of Talos a big deal. THAT is when the Thalmor forced the Empire to start enforcing the treaty, and THAT is when their plan of causing unrest within the Empire began. The Skyrim Civil War is the Dominion's plan. They want humans to be weak. They want Skyrim AND the Empire to be weak. The Stormcloaks are doing just that. Weakening themselves and the Empire simply because of their own wants and needs. Simply because they cannot worship secretly temporarily, and simply cannot help the Empire regain its strength so they can destroy the Dominion and free themselves of such a "treaty."

The Empire hates the Elves as much as the rebels. Think long and deep of this. It is evident in-game even. The Empire wants to destroy the Dominion, yet the rebels are holding them back from doing so. Yet the rebels cannot realize this, and think of now rather than of the future. The Empire saved itself and humanity and for what? For another war? Where is the logic? Starting yet another war RIGHT AFTER one of the most deadliest wars fought on Tamriel had ended? How is that smart? Please explain.

 

[Secunda_]

C'mon people, discuss and argue a little. I need something to read during my breaks.

You're like a lit match at a gas station. Keep setting this thread up into debate, haha.

Well, because it is a debate? lol

 

[Secunda_]

why is it that only the empire can defeat the thalmor? they've been doing such a great job so far... the justiciars can arrest people on the vague crime of "talos worship, possible talos worship and my favorite... might know about talos worship".

You meet an aspect of tiber septim in morrowind, he himself admits the empire is old and there needs to be something new. I don't think talos "cares" about your empire anymore. the empire obviously isn't trying very hard to stay alive if you think the stormcloaks fell into the thalmor ploy. the empire was warned about the thalmor over a hundred years ago. they sure did a great job with that information.

Dude, what. Yeah, Tiber Septim doesn't care of his only footprint left on Nirn. The physical creation Tiber himself made. Tiber was referring to the near Oblivion Crisis, and of how the Septim dynasty was soon to fall. He didn't state anywhere that he hates the Empire HE MADE.

And what makes you think a weakened Skyrim AND a weakened Empire will differ much? Once Skyrim is reunified, the Empire can truly resume rebuilding so that it can destroy the Elven threat for good.

 

[Thorek]

This thread was made for debating practically, yet nobody has truly made any long efforted arguments thus far.

Lets just say remarkably Ulfric and his bandwagon of Nords win the Civil War. After they win they, along with the Empire, will be at a point of weakness. The Stormcloaks can barely even fend off ONE of the Empire's weakened Legions that has been sent to Skyrim. What makes you think they'll be able to hold off another Imperial invasion, AND to have the strength to attack the Dominion? Skyrim will be weakened further as it relies HEAVILY on Imperial resources, coin, and trade as evident in-game. Once they win the war, such resources will be cut. Skyrim will also have to make its own currency and such, thus leading to inflation and a moship of economic troubles as well. What a headache..

What are you on about? Cyrodiil isn't under any form of chaos or revolt. Show me in-game dialogue or quote where it says this specifically.

No. Montierre is a corrupt member of the Elder Council seeking a new Emperor to lead the Empire. He doesn't care of Skyrim's political matters as he is in it for himself. He wishes to change the Empire as he sees fit (hence why I always kill him in return, lol). Vici's wedding wasn't a peaceful gesture at all. Even at the wedding you have Pro-Stormcloaks complaining and showing their hatred of their Imperial foe. Titus being assassinated is honestly what the Empire needs in the first place. Titus II did his part and saved both the Empire AND humanity from the Elves, now it is time for a heir to step up to the plate without carrying his father's political hatred. Although I do agree it is rather silly being able to kill the Emperor of Tamriel so easily.

Let me simplify; before the Markarth incident all was good basically. The Empire was rebuilding, Talos worship was still allowed but in secret, and the Elves were content. But, the treaty was only enforced AFTER the Incident. AFTER Ulfric made the worship of Talos a big deal. THAT is when the Thalmor forced the Empire to start enforcing the treaty, and THAT is when their plan of causing unrest within the Empire began. The Skyrim Civil War is the Dominion's plan. They want humans to be weak. They want Skyrim AND the Empire to be weak. The Stormcloaks are doing just that. Weakening themselves and the Empire simply because of their own wants and needs. Simply because they cannot worship secretly temporarily, and simply cannot help the Empire regain its strength so they can destroy the Dominion and free themselves of such a "treaty."

The Empire hates the Elves as much as the rebels. Think long and deep of this. It is evident in-game even. The Empire wants to destroy the Dominion, yet the rebels are holding them back from doing so. Yet the rebels cannot realize this, and think of now rather than of the future. The Empire saved itself and humanity and for what? For another war? Where is the logic? Starting yet another war RIGHT AFTER one of the most deadliest wars fought on Tamriel had ended? How is that smart? Please explain.

Okay on computer now so it'll be easier to type.

"Lets just say remarkably Ulfric and his bandwagon of Nords win the Civil War. After they win they, along with the Empire, will be at a point of weakness. The Stormcloaks can barely even fend off ONE of the Empire's weakened Legions that has been sent to Skyrim. What makes you think they'll be able to hold off another Imperial invasion, AND to have the strength to attack the Dominion? Skyrim will be weakened further as it relies HEAVILY on Imperial resources, coin, and trade as evident in-game. Once they win the war, such resources will be cut."

The Stormcloaks aren't fighting one weakened legion. Tullius remarks "handful of Legions". The Stormcloaks haven't completely started the war as they're waiting upon what to do with Whiterun.

How can the Empire defeat the elves when they're struggling to deal with one small uprising and can't keep control in cyrodiil?

"However, I fear General Tullius is underestimating the Stormcloaks. Too often the general has lost good soldiers because he did not take Ulfric and his men seriously. If this continues, and the worst comes to pass, Solitude will pay the price." thane bryling.

Why would the Empire cut itself off from resources it also needs? Skyrim has a lot of natural wealth and as evident in game such resources from the Empire are few and far between. If the East Empire Company is willing to talk trade deals with the Thalmor why stop with an independent Skyrim?

"Skyrim will also have to make its own currency and such, thus leading to inflation and a moship of economic troubles as well. What a headache.."

What? The gold septim is used all over, doesn't even need to have tiber's face on it as gold and silver bars works too. Empire would have more economic troubles if they cut themselves off from skyrim. enemies or friends the empire cares about money, they're run by nobles and merchants.

"What are you on about? Cyrodiil isn't under any form of chaos or revolt. Show me in-game dialogue or quote where it says this specifically."

I believe it was mentioned in this thread last page or the page before. If you want in-game dialogue or quotes it is in Cicero's journals.

"No. Montierre is a corrupt member of the Elder Council seeking a new Emperor to lead the Empire. He doesn't care of Skyrim's political matters as he is in it for himself. He wishes to change the Empire as he sees fit (hence why I always kill him in return, lol). "

And that doesn't ring any alarm bells? You don't kill the real Motierre there are two versions of him and they even look different. you killed what appears to be a double.

"Vici's wedding wasn't a peaceful gesture at all. Even at the wedding you have Pro-Stormcloaks complaining and showing their hatred of their Imperial foe."

It is their son getting married. I would say it is steps towards peace for the younger legion and stormcloaks as opposed to the bitter old breeds.

"Oh! Well, you tell your Stormcloak friends "hello" right back at them! This is a day of healing! Legion, Stormcloaks - all are welcome here!"

"Ha ha ha ha! Yes, yes indeed! Hail the Imperial Legion! Hail the Stormcloaks! Hail Solitude and the Eight Divines! On this glorious day, we honor everyone! Ha ha ha ha!"

"Vici has obvious Imperial connections. Her husband has ties to the Stormcloaks. Their union is a step toward reconciliation. So if there's a murder at the wedding... Not only will it stall the peace process - it will send shockwaves throughout the entire Empire. The Emperor's hand will be forced. He'll have to travel to Skyrim to deal with the aftermath... and he'll find the Dark Brotherhood waiting."

"Let me simplify; before the Markarth incident all was good basically. The Empire was rebuilding, Talos worship was still allowed but in secret, and the Elves were content. But, the treaty was only enforced AFTER the Incident. AFTER Ulfric made the worship of Talos a big deal. THAT is when the Thalmor forced the Empire to start enforcing the treaty, and THAT is when their plan of causing unrest within the Empire began. The Skyrim Civil War is the Dominion's plan. They want humans to be weak. They want Skyrim AND the Empire to be weak. The Stormcloaks are doing just that. Weakening themselves and the Empire simply because of their own wants and needs. Simply because they cannot worship secretly temporarily, and simply cannot help the Empire regain its strength so they can destroy the Dominion and free themselves of such a "treaty." "

Before the Markarth Incident? It was the small months in the aftermath of the Great War. Treaty was signed late 175, Markarth Incident was 176. The Markarth Incident is the enforcement, the Thalmor arrived in Skyrim at that time and demanded the arrest of Ulfric Stormcloak.

The Thalmor didn't plan the rebellion from day one. they used both ulfric and the empire to achieve their goals. Saying it is only the Stormcloaks who are to blame is moot as the imperials are to blame also.

The Empire has been doing exactly what the thalmor wanted for decades. Not only can't they keep cydoill in control but they're dragging everyone else down with them.

"The Stormcloaks only rebel because the Empire uses Skyrim as its personal larder. The more they take, the more support the rebels gain!" bryling.

"The Empire hates the Elves as much as the rebels. Think long and deep of this. It is evident in-game even. The Empire wants to destroy the Dominion, yet the rebels are holding them back from doing so. Yet the rebels cannot realize this, and think of now rather than of the future. The Empire saved itself and humanity and for what? For another war? Where is the logic? Starting yet another war RIGHT AFTER one of the most deadliest wars fought on Tamriel had ended? How is that smart? Please explain."

The empire was warned over hundred years ago. they did nothing then and they're doing nothing now. the only thing holding the empire back from "destroying the dominion" is the empire itself.

if the rebels are indeed such a threat why isn't the empire doing anything about it? why did the empire allow ulfric to rally supporters and allow the nords to be skirmishing for years? if the imperials truly wanted to bother keeping their empire together why do they ignore issues? legion has authority over justiciars and yet they won't do anything with that power. the empire hasn't changed they always exploit and ignore problems until they're forced to do something.

emperor can arrive to skyrim. thalmor battlemages can arrive to skyrim. ships from cyrodiil can arrive to skyrim. yet legion reinforcements can't? sitting around with dicks in their hands calling it "rebuilding doesn't make it so.

 

[Thorek]

Dude, what. Yeah, Tiber Septim doesn't care of his only footprint left on Nirn. The physical creation Tiber himself made. Tiber was referring to the near Oblivion Crisis, and of how the Septim dynasty was soon to fall. He didn't state anywhere that he hates the Empire HE MADE.

And what makes you think a weakened Skyrim AND a weakened Empire will differ much? Once Skyrim is reunified, the Empire can truly resume rebuilding so that it can destroy the Elven threat for good.

This empire isn't new. it is stil the third empire under a different dynasty which is at odds with the council. I never said tiber hates the empire he made, though this treaty is weakening his power. worship what gives gods power and influence over mundas and talos is holding the world up.

so what makes you think he'd like an empire that disrupts the plops keeping the world together.

empire can rebuild in cyrodiil. let the other provinces rebuild and build up their armies. problem is that imperial nobility don't want that they're after exploiting and controlling. They should treat them as equals not savages who need them.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Well, because it is a debate? lol

Aye, though it never seems to die. You're doing good though, I'd help but I never liked ganging up and it is about damn time I got my own reinforcements in this thread.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

You're like a lit match at a gas station. Keep setting this thread up into debate, haha.

That just means I'm doing it right. Although I'm sure if I transformed from lit match to hooker at a gas station I could attract more folk...

Alright, lemme try;

You know, both sides are right. Maybe you should look at the advantages of being ruled by the Aldmeri. Being a serf means you don't need to waste time on decision making, and you'll be cared for - food and lodging for honest work, some starving folk in Skyrim would beg for that position. Just see it for what it truly is - a simple life, free of worry.

 

[Secunda_]

The Stormcloaks are fighting one Legion. They are fighting the 4th Imperial Legion sent by the Empire to quell the rebellion. Since all other Legions are on the front lines near Valenwood and Elswyr, they cannot send reinforcements. Thus explaining why the 4th Legion, ONE LEGION, is weakened. Even before and after Whiterun, Galmar states to Ulfric that their "men are being slaughtered out there." I can find this quote for you if you wish.
The Empire is having trouble because all other 17 Legions are being rebuilt and are being stationed in the south of Cyrodiil in preparation of the next Great War. This forces the Legion you're fighting in Skyrim to recruit locally as the Empire cannot afford to send reinforcements. Plus, you keep mentioning that the Empire can't quell this supposed "chaos" in Cyrodiil? Quote where this is stated as I have never heard this before in-game.
The Empire won't trade with a providence that just kicked its ass out of it's own territory. Plus, it is heavily evident both in-game and out that the Empire and Skyrim hold a very strong, and prosperous trading bond. Once with is broken, then what? The Empire will be further weakened from this, and so won't Skyrim. You really believe an Independent yet weak Skyrim can live off of it's own resources, and have such an endurance to survive an Imperial invasions.. AND be able to fight the Dominion. I highly believe otherwise.

*facepalm*. I'll explain this slowly for you, and try to be polite. The Empire uses the "Septim" as their currency. All territories of the Empire use this currency. If Skyrim is severed from the Empire, the Septims will be rendered useless as it is an Imperial currency. That's like saying America keeping the British currency after winning the Revolutionary War is logical. That makes no sense. Just as what happens to any new nation, Skyrim will have to set up a new economic system and government. This will lead to inflation issues, trade conflicts, etc.

Okay, back up your argument and show me where it says that Cyrodiil is in literal revolt.

......... What. xD Hahahaha.

Sorry to burst yet another bubble, but the marriage of an Imperial with a Stormcloak would only cause more unrest. Just because some pompous and naive Imperial from Cyrodiil says that things will be A-OKAY with the new marriage doesn't truly represent anything. The Stormcloaks would still hate the Imperials as they want their land free from the Empire, marriage of an Imperial or not.

I can barely comprehend this section of your reply as your grammar isn't exactly clear, lets just say. The Treaty was only enforced after Ulfric freed Markarth of the banning of Talos, and began dancing under the Dominion's strings as intended. Before so, people still worshiped. The Empire never cared of the banning of talos before the Incident, and never cracked down on it. Only after Ulfric made the Talos worship a huge deal was when the Empire was forced to enforce the treaty.

The Emperor arrived in Skyrim because his own family was killed. Thalmor battlemages are there thanks to Ulfric and his Rebellion. Uh, there is no heavy presence of Imperial ships in Skyrim besides the ones of the Empire Trading Company. And you still lack the understanding that the Legion lost 60 percent of it's forces. It's going to take a bit of time to rebuild an entire army..

 

[DrunkenMage]

Alright, lemme try;

You know, both sides are right. Maybe you should look at the advantages of being ruled by the Aldmeri. Being a serf means you don't need to waste time on decision making, and you'll be cared for - food and lodging for honest work, some starving folk in Skyrim would beg for that position. Just see it for what it truly is - a simple life, free of worry.

That is the problem with this debate though. Both the Empire and Stormcloaks are right, and both are wrong.

I could argue completely in favor of the Stormcloaks and destroy my Imperial arguments, or I could argue in favor of Imperials and destroy Stormcloak arguments.

There really isn't much information to paint one side better other than mostly personal views and personal choice.

 

[Secunda_]

Well, because it is a debate? lol

Aye, though it never seems to die. You're doing good though, I'd help but I never liked ganging up and it is about damn time I got my own reinforcements in this thread.

For the Empire! Down with the Elves! xD

 

[Secunda_]

Alright, lemme try;

You know, both sides are right. Maybe you should look at the advantages of being ruled by the Aldmeri. Being a serf means you don't need to waste time on decision making, and you'll be cared for - food and lodging for honest work, some starving folk in Skyrim would beg for that position. Just see it for what it truly is - a simple life, free of worry.

That is the problem with this debate though. Both the Empire and Stormcloaks are right, and both are wrong.

I could argue completely in favor of the Stormcloaks and destroy my Imperial arguments, or I could argue in favor of Imperials and destroy Stormcloak arguments.

There really isn't much information to paint one side better other than mostly personal views and personal choice.

I agree.

But, the Empire is the utmost logical choice to ensure the survival of mankind, and the utter destruction of the Dominion.

 

[Secunda_]

You're like a lit match at a gas station. Keep setting this thread up into debate, haha.

That just means I'm doing it right. Although I'm sure if I transformed from lit match to hooker at a gas station I could attract more folk...

Alright, lemme try;

You know, both sides are right. Maybe you should look at the advantages of being ruled by the Aldmeri. Being a serf means you don't need to waste time on decision making, and you'll be cared for - food and lodging for honest work, some starving folk in Skyrim would beg for that position. Just see it for what it truly is - a simple life, free of worry.

The Stormcloak cause is just, but their leader is a blind puppet.. And to start a Rebellion during such a time where Elves threaten the existence of mankind is illogical. The Empire is weak without their Septim ruler, and the Legion as well.. but yet they still cling to the hope of destroying the Dominion, and freeing themselves of the Elven claws. A hope the rebels are diminishing.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

That is the problem with this debate though. Both the Empire and Stormcloaks are right, and both are wrong.

I could argue completely in favor of the Stormcloaks and destroy my Imperial arguments, or I could argue in favor of Imperials and destroy Stormcloak arguments.

There really isn't much information to paint one side better other than mostly personal views and personal choice.

Not quite; it depends on what aspects you try to debate about, and so far we've only had political/economic aspects.
How about we try and see the advantages/disadvantages of civil life under the rule of certain factions?

For example, Stormcloaks have no sense for hygiene.
At least Balgruuf's men bathed regularly. These Stormcloaks always smell of ale and sweat, and their breath reeks.

 

[Secunda_]

That is the problem with this debate though. Both the Empire and Stormcloaks are right, and both are wrong.

I could argue completely in favor of the Stormcloaks and destroy my Imperial arguments, or I could argue in favor of Imperials and destroy Stormcloak arguments.

There really isn't much information to paint one side better other than mostly personal views and personal choice.

Not quite; it depends on what aspects you try to debate about, and so far we've only had political/economic aspects.
How about we try and see the advantages/disadvantages of civil life under the rule of certain factions?

For example, Stormcloaks have no sense for hygiene.
At least Balgruuf's men bathed regularly. These Stormcloaks always smell of ale and sweat, and their breath reeks.

Simple.

Under Imperial rule;
- Skyrim is reunified with Cyrodiil and High Rock.
- Treaty enforced throughout Skyrim temporarily.
- Thalmor presence to lessen over time
- Trade with the Empire to resume
- Nords are made to bolster the Legions for the 2nd great war
- Maven becomes a jarl (LOL)
- Jarl of Solitude likely to be claimed High Queen
- Legion's presence in Skyrim
- Improvement of lives for other races
- One main enemy - Thalmor

Under Stormcloak rule-
- Weak, but Independent Skyrim
- Ulfric as high King to improve the lives of Nords firstly
- Trade with the Empire severed
- Unclear future alliances with other Thalmor-hating provinces
- Economic problems to overcome
- Two enemies- The Empire, AND the Dominion
- No presence of the Thalmor
- Free worship of Talos, freedom from Treaty

 

[DrunkenMage]

I agree.

But, the Empire is the utmost logical choice to ensure the survival of mankind, and the utter destruction of the Dominion.

Not always, and it all depends how we look at something in lore. To illustrate my point, I'll attack your argument (I am sorry!).

The Stormcloaks are fighting one Legion. They are fighting the 4th Imperial Legion sent by the Empire to quell the rebellion.

The Fourth Legion has never been mentioned in Elder Scrolls Lore (That was a mistake done one wiki and it spread like the plague.)

Since all other Legions are on the front lines near Valenwood and Elswyr, they cannot send reinforcements.

Imperial soldiers are escorting barrels of mead.

Lady Maven Black-Briar,


I've made inquiries into the loss of your mead shipment to Cyrodiil, and I've come to the conclusion that they were waylaid by a group of mercenaries under the employ of the Empire. According to my sources, these mercenaries were not acting under orders and simply attacked the caravan for supplies. I've forwarded a request for compensation on your behalf to the Imperial Council and the mercenaries in question have already been dealt with accordingly. Again, I wish to extend my deepest apologies for this unfortunate mishap and I assure you that any future shipments into our nation will be met at the border by an Imperial patrol and personally escorted to its final destination.


Reginn Limilus
Grand Steward, Imperial City Trade Relations http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Regarding_Your_Loss

Thus explaining why the 4th Legion, ONE LEGION, is weakened. Even before and after Whiterun, Galmar states to Ulfric that their "men are being slaughtered out there." I can find this quote for you if you wish.

"That's what comes of trying to win a war with a bare handful of legions. If the Emperor would just give me the reinforcements I've requested!" - General Tullius http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000d767b

The Empire is having trouble because all other 17 Legions are being rebuilt and are being stationed in the south of Cyrodiil in preparation of the next Great War.

The problem with this is that the Empire was mentioned to be militarily weak prior to the outbreak of the Great War. Having also lost Legions during the Umbriel Crisis around 4E 40, the highest Legion mentioned in the Great War is the Tenth Legion.

Had the Empire placed every single one of it's Legions in Cyrodiil they would begin to lose the outer regions as seen during the Great War and a bit after as the Kingdom of Wayrest was lost to pirates.

This forces the Legion you're fighting in Skyrim to recruit locally as the Empire cannot afford to send reinforcements. Plus, you keep mentioning that the Empire can't quell this supposed "chaos" in Cyrodiil? Quote where this is stated as I have never heard this before in-game.

The situation in Bravil grows more dire. The city has erupted in violence, due to a war of control being waged by Cyrodiil's two largest skooma traffickers. The Listener, Alisanne Dupre, has been forced to employ sellswords to protect her own residence.

Being forced to recruit mercenaries for protection, indicates the Legion does not have control of the situation (This is 13 years after the Great War).

Cheydinhal has erupted into violence and chaos, like so many other cities before it.

Another city starting to fall into problems (This is 14 years after White-Gold Concordat). It is not mentioned if order is restored although there appears to still be some issues only one year prior to Skyrim starting.

Bruma is also another city that erupted into violence.

The Empire won't trade with a providence that just kicked its ass out of it's own territory. Plus, it is heavily evident both in-game and out that the Empire and Skyrim hold a very strong, and prosperous trading bond. Once with is broken, then what? The Empire will be further weakened from this, and so won't Skyrim.

They're willing to possibly accept trade deals with the Aldmeri Dominion. "A delicate question, to be sure. I'm the Emperor's cousin, and the Empire has little love for the Thalmor. On the other hand, the Thalmor have considerable funds and are looking to expand their shipping. I haven't signed any deals yet, but I'm sure my cousin will want a cut if I do. What better way to soothe his wounded pride?"

You really believe an Independent yet weak Skyrim can live off of it's own resources, and have such an endurance to survive an Imperial invasions.. AND be able to fight the Dominion. I highly believe otherwise.

Skyrim is quite robust, they have alright farmlands in the Rift and plenty of fishing and game to hunt. They trade with Morrowind and even Hammerfell, there is a Nord shipping company in Windhelm that is in fact doing extremely well (enough to force the EETC into no longer sending ships and the warehouse in Solitude seeing little use apparently for a time.)

The Empire uses the "Septim" as their currency. All territories of the Empire use this currency. If Skyrim is severed from the Empire, the Septims will be rendered useless as it is an Imperial currency. That's like saying America keeping the British currency after winning the Revolutionary War is logical. That makes no sense. Just as what happens to any new nation, Skyrim will have to set up a new economic system and government. This will lead to inflation issues, trade conflicts, etc.

The gold coin, septim and drakes are all interchangable. Silver is also an acceptable trade, as both the Stormcloaks and Empire use it.

Sorry to burst yet another bubble, but the marriage of an Imperial with a Stormcloak would only cause more unrest. Just because some pompous and naive Imperial from Cyrodiil says that things will be A-OKAY with the new marriage doesn't truly represent anything. The Stormcloaks would still hate the Imperials as they want their land free from the Empire, marriage of an Imperial or not.

Marrying into royalty is actually a common political move, and First Cousin to the Emperor is pretty well placed. Wouldn't be the first time the Empire and Skyrim solved political problems through royal marriage.

It wouldn't exactly create peace instantly, but it could have been steps towards it.

The Emperor arrived in Skyrim because his own family was killed. Thalmor battlemages are there thanks to Ulfric and his Rebellion. Uh, there is no heavy presence of Imperial ships in Skyrim besides the ones of the Empire Trading Company. And you still lack the understanding that the Legion lost 60 percent of it's forces. It's going to take a bit of time to rebuild an entire army..

The Emperor arrives to become directly involved in dealing with the rebellion. Hence why it is mentioned his hand is forced as Titus II was unwilling to become directly involved in the conflict (cancelling his original trip months ago).

There is one Imperial vessel I know of (Believe you cause it to shipwreck in a quest involving an Argonian). It carries pay for soldiers and weapons.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

- No presence of the Thalmor

- No open presence of the Thalmor

Fixed that for ya.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Not quite; it depends on what aspects you try to debate about, and so far we've only had political/economic aspects.
How about we try and see the advantages/disadvantages of civil life under the rule of certain factions?

For example, Stormcloaks have no sense for hygiene.
At least Balgruuf's men bathed regularly. These Stormcloaks always smell of ale and sweat, and their breath reeks.

They're all savages though.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Under Imperial rule;
- Skyrim is reunified with Cyrodiil and High Rock.

High Rock isn't exactly the best prize on the block, with Wayrest fallen and a Daedric plague going on in villages.