Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[General Charles Xander]

Oh damn. I didn't notice the book part. Nice catch Mage. :0

 

[DrunkenMage]

Oh damn. I didn't notice the book part. Nice catch Mage. :0

Stormcloaks try and find anything to aid them. Like how the Legion recruiting, training and smithing in Skyrim somehow makes the Imperial Legion no longer the Imperial Legion. Like saying it was done in Skyrim somehow works in their favor...

Skyrim has been part of the Empire for 676 years. Except the Stormcloaks make out that the Empire is Cyrodiil, and only Cyrodiil. That the Imperial Legion can only come from Cyrodiil, can only recruit from Cyrodiil, can only train and forge weapons and armor from Cyrodiil to be called the Imperial Legion.

Is it so hard for them to grasp that: Skyrim = Empire. You'd think they would understand that when the entire Stormcloak cause is to break away and go independent.

I don't even know what point they're trying to make anymore my friend.

 

[General Charles Xander]

Oh damn. I didn't notice the book part. Nice catch Mage. :0

Stormcloaks try and find anything to aid them. Like how the Legion recruiting, training and smithing in Skyrim somehow makes the Imperial Legion no longer the Imperial Legion. Like saying it was done in Skyrim somehow works in their favor...

Skyrim has been part of the Empire for 676 years. Except the Stormcloaks make out that the Empire is Cyrodiil, and only Cyrodiil. That the Imperial Legion can only come from Cyrodiil, can only recruit from Cyrodiil, can only train and forge weapons and armor from Cyrodiil to be called the Imperial Legion.

Is it so hard for them to grasp that: Skyrim = Empire. You'd think they would understand that when the entire Stormcloak cause is to break away and go independent.

I don't even know what point they're trying to make anymore my friend.

The Stormcloak's arguments are nothing but slander and misallocation of definitive topics. Why? Because all of the legitimate and relevant topics have been thoroughly discussed and false claims, debunked. There's nothing left for them to argue about so they result to pompous insults and persistent clarification on their views. This debate ended a long time ago, but the Storncloaks are still delirious and lost.

 

[Ancano]

Oh damn. I didn't notice the book part. Nice catch Mage. :0

Stormcloaks try and find anything to aid them. Like how the Legion recruiting, training and smithing in Skyrim somehow makes the Imperial Legion no longer the Imperial Legion. Like saying it was done in Skyrim somehow works in their favor...

Skyrim has been part of the Empire for 676 years. Except the Stormcloaks make out that the Empire is Cyrodiil, and only Cyrodiil. That the Imperial Legion can only come from Cyrodiil, can only recruit from Cyrodiil, can only train and forge weapons and armor from Cyrodiil to be called the Imperial Legion.

Is it so hard for them to grasp that: Skyrim = Empire. You'd think they would understand that when the entire Stormcloak cause is to break away and go independent.

I don't even know what point they're trying to make anymore my friend.

The Stirmcloak's arguments are nothing but slander and misallocation of definitive topics. Why? Because all of the legitimate and relevant topics have been thoroughly discussed and false claims, debunked. There's nothing left for them to argue about so they result to pompous insults and persistent clarification on their views. This debate ended a long time ago, but the Storncloaks are still delirious and lost.

"At least Ulfric's men are willing to fight for their principles, barbaric as they may be."

 

[General Charles Xander]

Stormcloaks try and find anything to aid them. Like how the Legion recruiting, training and smithing in Skyrim somehow makes the Imperial Legion no longer the Imperial Legion. Like saying it was done in Skyrim somehow works in their favor...

Skyrim has been part of the Empire for 676 years. Except the Stormcloaks make out that the Empire is Cyrodiil, and only Cyrodiil. That the Imperial Legion can only come from Cyrodiil, can only recruit from Cyrodiil, can only train and forge weapons and armor from Cyrodiil to be called the Imperial Legion.

Is it so hard for them to grasp that: Skyrim = Empire. You'd think they would understand that when the entire Stormcloak cause is to break away and go independent.

I don't even know what point they're trying to make anymore my friend.

The Stirmcloak's arguments are nothing but slander and misallocation of definitive topics. Why? Because all of the legitimate and relevant topics have been thoroughly discussed and false claims, debunked. There's nothing left for them to argue about so they result to pompous insults and persistent clarification on their views. This debate ended a long time ago, but the Storncloaks are still delirious and lost.

"At least Ulfric's men are willing to fight for their principles, barbaric as they may be."

"We do this for the good of Skyrim and her people. Never forget that." -Legate Rikke

 

[Ancano]

The Stirmcloak's arguments are nothing but slander and misallocation of definitive topics. Why? Because all of the legitimate and relevant topics have been thoroughly discussed and false claims, debunked. There's nothing left for them to argue about so they result to pompous insults and persistent clarification on their views. This debate ended a long time ago, but the Storncloaks are still delirious and lost.

"At least Ulfric's men are willing to fight for their principles, barbaric as they may be."

"We do this for the good of Skyrim and her people. Never forget that." -Legate Rikke

"It's only a matter of time before your whole rotten Empire collapses of its own decay. No offense."

"Now that stability has been established between the Dominion and the Empire, we seek only to help Skyrim. To guide its people through this time of transition, to help lead them to a better future."

 

[General Charles Xander]

"At least Ulfric's men are willing to fight for their principles, barbaric as they may be."

"We do this for the good of Skyrim and her people. Never forget that." -Legate Rikke

"It's only a matter of time before your whole rotten Empire collapses of its own decay. No offense."

"Now that stability has been established between the Dominion and the Empire, we seek only to help Skyrim. To guide its people through this time of transition, to help lead them to a better future."

"Fair faces and fine food are well and good, but honesty is rarely so pleasing. There are words spoken, and words unspoken. Beware these Thalmor, for they are adept in both languages. -Idgrod Ravencrone

"The Thalmor are arrogant fools..." -Bethesda

 

[Ancano]

"We do this for the good of Skyrim and her people. Never forget that." -Legate Rikke

"It's only a matter of time before your whole rotten Empire collapses of its own decay. No offense."

"Now that stability has been established between the Dominion and the Empire, we seek only to help Skyrim. To guide its people through this time of transition, to help lead them to a better future."

"Fair faces and fine food are well and good, but honesty is rarely so pleasing. There are words spoken, and words unspoken. Beware these Thalmor, for they are adept in both languages. -Idgrod Ravencrone

"The Thalmor are arrogant fools..." -Bethesda

"We only want what is best for Tamriel. Surely, the rebels will accept peace when they realize this."

"Behold, the future! Behold, the Thalmor!"

 

[Rimfaxe96]

Near collapse? By merit of what?

Civil War. Throw in Dragons, Forsworn, Falmer, Bandits, Vampires and a Daedric Prince planning to use the province as host to a plague...

Anything else I missed?

Just some minor stuff.

1.) Rogue mages, there are plenty of dungeons with mages in them and there's also a world encounter where you get attacked by necromancers. Not very surprising in chaotic times like these, when there's so many tombs with hundreds of corpses; even in the 2nd Era Skyrim was a suitable place for Necromancers:

In Skyrim, the cold weather and isolated terrain allow a few Necromancers to operate freely. Alas, the availability of corpses is limited to Nords who die from exposure or in battle. While the cold is preservative, the snow makes these corpses difficult to find. [...] These difficulties lead many Necromancers to create their own corpses. While I prefer to work with those who have died a natural death, a more expedient approach is sometimes necessary to further the study of the Art.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/preparation-corpse

2.) Financial suicide (except for Markarth with their silver mine I guess), judging from the dialogue of various Jarls:

Have you found it difficult to get provisions lately? I can scarcely feed the staff in my palace. (Diplomatic Immunity random line)
Between the dragons and the Stormcloaks, my coffers are running dry. (Diplomatic Immunity random line)

Maven: "I have payments to make you realize. If I can't make them, I can't make Black-Briar Mead." OR "Quite. To be brief, I need compensation for the lost shipment. Since Riften was responsible for it, Riften should pay for it."
Laila: "We... don't have enough to..."
Riften is so low on money they can't pay a single one of Maven's shipments. Hell, just another clear sign Riften belonged to Maven even if she didn't sit on that throne.

Elisif: "As you know, Solitude's coffers are much depleted by the war efforts. ..."

Siddgeir in Falkreath even dealed with bandits who offered money, so he can't be filthy-rich either anymore. He's also awfully impatient about getting his taxes:

Siddgeir: "Why have taxes not come in from Granite Hill, Nenya? We should send some guards down there."
Nenya: "They are only a little late, Jarl. The trade routes are affected by the war, we should give them another day."
Siddgeir: "Very well, but when their emissary arrives I want words with him."

3.) Economic suicide; you mentioned it earlier but maybe clarifying it to the Stormcloaks how bad the EEC goes about it's taxes will help anyway. You just have to check on the dialogue of Raven Rock NPCs.

Gjalund:"Before you even ask... yes, I have the supplies you requested. But..."
Adril:"But what?"
Gjalund:"This load cost me double what we had agreed on. Nothing I can do about it."
Adril:"Damn it, Gjalund. You know we don't have that much coin."
Gjalund:"Look, the East Empire Company didn't give me a choice. They've raised their prices again, and there's nothing I can do about it."
Adril:"After all these years, they're gouging us for every last drake we have. Let me talk to Lleril. I'll see what we can do."

"Solitude... home to the East Empire Company, the heartless bastards." --Teldryn Sero

There's also plenty of dialogue to go around regarding starving citizens, razed farms and so on; the only place to get food from beside the EEC appears to be Rorikstead, but a single horde of bandits could change that. And a single little settlement can't feed a whole country.
I doubt Ulfric will have to worry about the Nords being conquered by outsider forces, because there won't be a Skyrim left to conquer.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Just some minor stuff.

1.) Rogue mages, there are plenty of dungeons with mages in them and there's also a world encounter where you get attacked by necromancers. Not very surprising in chaotic times like these, when there's so many tombs with hundreds of corpses; even in the 2nd Era Skyrim was a suitable place for Necromancers:

Even the soldiers themselves on both sides.

"Both the Imperials and Stormcloaks have sent riders this way, scouting the bridge and the lands nearby. They stayed at the inn, but didn't pay. They said soldiers don't need to pay because they're risking their lives to protect us. And that's not all. They took a heap of our lumber, and one tried to have his way with my daughter. They think they can do whatever they want." - Azzada

3.) Economic suicide; you mentioned it earlier but maybe clarifying it to the Stormcloaks how bad the EEC goes about it's taxes will help anyway. You just have to check on the dialogue of Raven Rock NPCs.

Also throw in the various massacres that occur during the war, and dragons burning farms.

Mills are threatened or barely functioning.

We had some trouble, while back. Stormcloak tried to set the mill on fire. But we sorted her out." - Hjorunn

"I used to have five good men who worked the mill with me. Then this war started and they all ran off. Idiots with mead in their blood." - Gilfre

There's plenty of good wood around here, but I just can't harvest it all by myself. Everyone able-bodied is fighting." - Gilfre

"Of course, without functioning mills, who will make the arrows for our soldiers? Men have no sense of irony." - Gilfre

With most soldiers being local militia, unless the war ends soon or the victor weakens their forces by releasing a lot of their men and women to return back to work. Considering the war doesn't truly end, and both the Legion and Stormcloaks keep hidden camps to strike where they can. Throw in the out of control bandits and the issues with the Forsworn neither side can actually weaken their forces, and will need to conscript even more.

Windhelm doesn't have enough soldiers to maintain order in the streets, they can't investigate murders. Whiterun barely has enough guards too, and other various cities are lacking manpower. Now if the Stormcloaks win, Windhelm and various cities will still not have a good standing of guards. Windhelm's fighting men are stationed in the West now.

From dialogue on the Stormcloak side for Markarth, we know the Jarl is requesting large amounts of soldiers to just hold Markarth from the Forsworn.

All the merchants besides the Khajiit have fled Skyrim. They're not likely to come back soon, with Skyrim still in chaos. Trade shipments between Holds are being hijacked by bandits, and mercenaries without work. That means more soldiers are tied up protecting these shipments, which means neither side can exactly release soldiers to return to the farms, mills and construction guilds.

This is where the Stormcloaks really shoot themselves in the foot. They no longer get the free resources from other parts of the Empire, and they don't employ mercenaries.

The Empire has reinforcements assembling at Pale Pass, they also employ large numbers of mercenaries, provide Jarls with chests of gold and resources to do as they wish. Legionaries escorting nobles is also a benefit for investments, and they have cash to throw around in cities they stay at.

As much as it pains me, Siddgeir says it correctly: "The Stormcloaks want freedom but don't understand its price."

There's also plenty of dialogue to go around regarding starving citizens, razed farms and so on; the only place to get food from beside the EEC appears to be Rorikstead, but a single horde of bandits could change that. And a single little settlement can't feed a whole country.
I doubt Ulfric will have to worry about the Nords being conquered by outsider forces, because there won't be a Skyrim left to conquer.

"Unfortunately, a sword can't repair damaged buildings, feed hungry people or undo years of prejudice." - Brunwulf

If you stay around Stormcloak camps you can hear them mention they don't want to go back to work the farms I believe.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Stormcloak's arguments are nothing but slander and misallocation of definitive topics. Why? Because all of the legitimate and relevant topics have been thoroughly discussed and false claims, debunked. There's nothing left for them to argue about so they result to pompous insults and persistent clarification on their views. This debate ended a long time ago, but the Storncloaks are still delirious and lost.

"Thalmor kidnap Nords" is something we see often on the Stormcloak side.

The Thalmor arresting Talos worshippers, which were few even now as the Thalmor Justiciars are limited with resources and manpower. So the Stormcloaks start a rebellion, which lead to thousands dying and bandits raiding farms, getting a large foothold in Skyrim as they kill and kidnap folks be they Talos worshipping or not.

The ironic thing is that due to their rebellion, even more people are getting kidnapped. Not just by Thalmor, but bandits. There is a kidnapping operation in Eastmarch, organized, wealthy and growing rapidly.

"Now every free blade from here to Windhelm wants to sign on for a piece." - Fjola, Mistwatch leader.

What went from a few open Talos worshippers getting arrested has turned into a situation where thousands die and many are kidnapped regardless of religion.

Stormcloaks, making Skyrim worse since 4E 201.

Skyrim has had 600+ years of prosperity under the Empire, and the Stormcloaks manage to fl*ff it up in a year. That has to be some sort of record.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Titus Mede was fighting Emperor Thules the Gibbering, so yes, the Nords of Skyrim did rally under Titus and back him during the Stormcrown Interregnum. Skyrim endorsed him as their chosen Emperor.

Right because we were still a part of the Empire and the Emperor, Thules the Gibbering was unliked. So basically what you're saying is, We rebelled against the Empire once and before, and it faired pretty well for us? Cool, guess things are on the up and up

Doubt they hid out with the Reachmen seeing as they just conquered them with Tiber. What side of Skyrim those Nords came from doesn't matter, they were the first to swear fealty to him. Then the rest of Skyrim came later.

Not true actually, if you care to look at the UESP article on the Tiber Wars:
"The Tiber Wars started when Cuhlecain, the King of Falkreath, supported by Chevalier Renald—a member of a knightly order descended from Reman's bodyguards—decided to wage war to unify the Colovian Estates.[1] To secure his northern borders in his future bid for conquest, Cuhlecain allied himself with Skyrim against the forces of the Western Reach. Leading his forces was a young Nordic general called Hjalti Early-Beard, later on named Talos
After the successful pacification of Old Hroldan, Nord and Breton nobles, rightfully fearing the ambitious Colovian king and his undefeatable general, formed an alliance and invaded northern Cyrodiil. The resounding victory at Sancre Tor was the turning point of the conflict, as the Nordic generals, suspicious of their Breton allies, flocked to join Talos' armies.[3] This trend of recruitment would continue for the next ten years in Skyrim, especially among young men."
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Wars#Human_Kingdoms

A Nord is a Nord. One of those Nords is a paranoid man who has you break into the house of his former Housecarl because loyalty obviously has no meaning.

I would say irrational Paranoia beats utter Incompetence and Sloth. Especially in a role of leadership

Dengeir was originally supported by the Empire, until the rebellion. So your argument is moot.

So was Ulfric, what's your point?

The Moot hasn't named their support. Ulfric refuses to let the Moot meet while the Jarls are calling for it. Though if you actually believe the Moot supports Elisif, then Ulfric is simply a coward who needs swords at the throats of all the Jarls to gain their vote.

Have you been paying attention to anything Tulius and Rikke have been saying? They are advocating for Elisif to be on the Throne. Ulfric fears the end result of this election if she is to be elected as any rational person would be. She was the one who offered to send a Legion of Guards to clear out a cave some farmer said he heard noises from, remember?

Tiber Septim died hundreds of years ago.

That was made evident with the Emperor's signature in that Concordant.

Funding the Empire in Skyrim? He sells imports to the Empire, and he's also willing to sell to the Stormcloaks if they can pay.

I don't see how the Empire is backing him, considering he's bitching the Empire is preparing to tax merchant vessels he has side deals with.

Did you read the document past line 4?
Falk: "We know full well about your investment in shipping ventures, Erikur. I've also heard troubling rumors about dealings between you and the crew of that pirate ship, the Red Wave. Thankfully, Jarl Elisif cares far less about your lost profits than she does about winning the war!"
Erikur: "The Jarl would be wise to remember that it is her thanes - and my profits - that are paying for this war."

So not only is he funding the war, he's also being allowed to operate with pirates without so much as a peep from Elisif, proving the corruption among the aristocracy of Solitude and the "Imperial" Legion.

Later on he explains why he does it in this bit of dialogue;
Elisif: "As you know, Solitude's coffers are much depleted by the war efforts. Thane Erikur, you have a strong head for business. What do you suggest?"
Erikur: "This is an unfortunate but unavoidable ebb in revenue. But as long as we continue to support the Empire, our sacrifices will be well rewarded."
Bryling: "Listen to you, speaking of sacrifice. You've never gone hungry a day in your life, Erikur!"
Elisif: "And what would my impetuous Thane Bryling suggest, instead?"
Bryling: "Simple. Let the Empire fight its own war, with its own funds, and without hijacking our supplies and soldiers. Let Haafingar rebuild."
Erikur: "My lady... Surely you're not that naive. Such foolishness would only leave us defenseless. The rebels would storm the palace in an afternoon."
Bryling: "The Stormcloaks only rebel because the Empire uses Skyrim as its personal larder. The more they take, the more support the rebels gain!"
Elisif: "That is quite enough. Perhaps I will raise these issues when I have an audience with General Tullius."

Not only are they being funded by Erikur and the Thanes of Solitude but they're also conscripting members of the Haafingar Guard and the citizens of the Imperial holds. So much for just protectors, eh?

If you "True Nords" can remain united...

Well as I'm sure you know Mr. Mage, It is much easier for a people to unite against something in times of hardship and oppression, especially when that opposed thing is a nemesis as old as the First Harbinger himself. I don't think It would be very difficult to unite Nords against such a universally hated foe.

Timing is important, however a Civil War on the brink of a Great War is not good timing.

True, however as stated above the Empire isn't even spending resources in this war, which means General Tulius-
Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."
-Is a dirty little liar.

So a Stormcloak or someone who is kind of like a Stormcloak.

No, a Nord or someone who is like a Nord who values Nordic ideals. Hell, you don't even have to be a Nord;
Ulfric Stormcloak: I number you among my kin.
He'll say that to you regardless of race

There are many who worship Talos, just not openly.

And yet he defies the White Gold Concordant and allows Talos Worship openly in his city because he's actually got a pair!

Talos worship doesn't make you a True Nord. Everyone hates the Ban on Talos, you think the Empire can just forget their most beloved God on the drop of a hat? No one likes the treaty, however they accept it.

You're right; It's not just the worship of Talos that makes a man/woman a True Nord, it's the grit to say to a bigger badder enemy: "Fu*k you, I do what I want because I'm a motherfuc*ing Nord who will kick your shi* in if you say otherwise." That's what makes a True Nord, Mage! let it stand and echo through the passages of time!

Twenty five years to recover from a Great War that nearly wiped the Empire off the face of the map. How long do you believe it should take for a nation to recover from a massive war, and the aftermath of criminals and "terrorists" for a lack of a better word taking advantage and causing massive scale violence in cities and regions.

I'm just saying that we Nords are quite an impatient bunch and we don't like to be deceived or at least what we PERCEIVE as deception.

Except prior to Ulfric's uprising, the Empire barely enforced the treaty. Those taken were those who were shouting about Talos, it even took the Thalmor seven days of someone going on about Talos in public to finally arrest him. In Markarth, the city where Justiciars have presence.

1.) You don't fuc*ing know that secret worshipers weren't rounded up and tortured & 2.)A man should be able to practice their religion openly. What you're not stating is that places of worship were shut down. Congregations where people came together and rejoiced in their faith were banned and people who attended them were arrested. This doesn't seem like a problem to you? When arguably the most superstitious race is not allowed the free worship of a god so important to them, it's not an issue to the Empire? No wonder we hate you and your ways. You don't give a shi* about anyone but yourselves and you're running an EMPIRE

Just because religious fanatics can't scream about their God in public and to your face, they should rebel. They can take one for the team.

>They can take one for the team

Okay. I'm gonna put this in words you can understand Since you clearly don't get it; Let's say you're a child and you REALLY love Ice Cream. You love it to the point of fanaticism and you've been allowed and encouraged to eat it under no supervision or chastization from your parents. Now, let's say that under some FREAK occurrence, your father loses a bet with some dude who thinks he can raise you better than your father can. The man is warranted to come into your home and tell you how to live for a YEAR. So this guy struts into your house with a new set of house rules. One of those rules being that you can no longer eat Ice Cream. "This is an outrage! "How could my father let this happen to me!" you think to yourself. In your head you know that you'd do anything for the sweet creamy frozen bliss that is Ice Cream. You brilliantly and unexpectedly come up with a solution; "No matter, I'll simply do it in secret." This new guy somehow KNOWS that you're going to attempt to eat Ice Cream clandestinely and he ups the ante in terms of security and always watches you. You do manage to sneak in a bit of Ice Cream here and there but eventually you get caught and severely beaten and scolded by this new sadistic overseer and he grounds you. Meanwhile, you overhear that your brother, who lives on the western side of the house, is rebelling against this new guardian's rule, which allowed him joint-ownership of half of your brother's room. He ends up barely fighting off the patriarch of tyranny's malevolent attempts at subterfuge and is allowed to keep full control of his room. Hearing about your brother's success you decide to try your hand in also regaining your Ice Cream privileges, however the man is protected by your father because he doesn't want to pay more money to the man that has invaded your home and personal space. What do you do?

Tamriel is home to all races, and Skyrim isn't simply occupied by Nords. Why should the Stormcloaks who care only for Nords and are entirely Nordic focused be ruling over eight other races? Spreading their own discrimination and mistrust as they grow as a faction.

Because Nords are the native populace and the majority. This is how almost every medieval society went about things. The Natives were above the foreigners, that's just how things are. That's not to say that men and women of other races won't have rights, but naturally they will be looked on as outsiders and that's just how things are.

More Nords have died from Ulfric's rebellion than the Thalmor could arrest and kidnap in a hundred years.

And more Nords have died in the Great War than in any Nordic involvement in History. Most of whom had no idea what they were fighting for because they were conscripts.

Not the Forsworn. Warlords. There are countless Warlords in Tamriel, how the hell do you think the Mede Dynasty started? Titus Mede was a Colovian Warlord.

Name one in Skyrim. Give me one Warlord willing to fight against the combined might of a unified Skyrim, that fits the textbook definition of a Warlord
war·lord
ˈwôrˌlôrd/
noun
noun: warlord; plural noun: warlords

1. a military commander, especially an aggressive regional commander with individual autonomy.

The Forsworn are a problem. Though do you mean that ONE hold with the largest silver mine?

I'm just saying that 8 other holds would be totally unaffected. Just as well, the Forsworn have proven pretty inefficient at holding territories considering they could be driven away by a small militia. They excel at disruption but organized warfare is not their strong suit.

Of course, well once the infighting starts up again and the Nords fracture like they always do. We'll come back and be seen as saviors.

Yeah if you don't get plops on by the Dominion like you always do.

You called him honorable and said he values loyalty before. Now he is a senile old man.

I said he was receptive and did value loyalty to Skyrim. Don't try and twist my words.

So the Stormcloaks support senile old men and idiots?

Yes. And the Empire supports grieving inept widows as queens and lazy spoiled children. Need I say more?

Civil War. Throw in Dragons, Forsworn, Falmer, Bandits, Vampires and a Daedric Prince planning to use the province as host to a plague...

Anything else I missed?

Yeah, you missed quite a few things actually.
1.) The Civil War can be recovered from with a unified workforce driven by the catalyst of battling Elven Supremacy
2.) A normal Dragon can be killed by 5 town guards
3.) The Forsworn are again only a problem to one hold
4.) Bandits have plagued every province for centuries with marginal success
5.) The Vampires are being handled by the Dawnguard
Other than that whole plague thing things should go well. Oh and by the way, a Plague isn't going to be contained into one province buddy. Good luck campaigning with sick soldiers!

I heard enough from Ulfric when he was toying with Tullius to create drama

Tulius toyed with Ulfric too

when he tried to use me in his speech

A speech you can abstain from being mentioned in should you so choose

and then turning to Galmar and laughing about the added touch of keeping with Nordic tradition for the Moot to please the idiots with the farce.

Yeah, because the EMPIRE definitely isn't using any secret and false method of stabilizing troop morale.

What molded me was his passion, his clear drive for his cause and the fact that he didn't want to sacrifice men;
Galmar: "Give the word, my lord, and Whiterun is yours."
Ulfric: "Whiterun is only a means to an end."
Galmar: "I've toured our camps. We're ready, Ulfric... Whenever you are."
Ulfric: "Is any man ever ready to give the order that will mean the deaths of many."
Galmar: "No. But neither is every man able to give that order when he must. But you are that man, Ulfric. You've been that man before, and you'll be him again. And these men and women - they call themselves Stormcloaks because they believe in you... They're the meanest, toughest sons of bitches Skyrim has to offer. And they want this. They want this as much as you do. Perhaps they want it more."
Ulfric: "You're certain we're ready? Whiterun's army will no doubt be bolstered with Legionnares. And those walls around Whiterun are old, but they still stand."
If you can notice the subtle reluctance in his words, you can see that he doesn't WANT to have men killed. He knows what needs to be done, and he knows that there is no change without sacrifice. His men are willing and aching to die for their cause. Why not give them the opportunity to test their mettle, or meet the verdant and misty fields of Sovngarde's majesty?

Shouldn't have rebelled then.

Fine. Die. See if I or the Nords give a shi*.

So basically Ulfric sends Skyrim into chaos, have a Civil War which starts a chain of events like I mentioned above. After the huge amounts of resources and manpower wasted in this petty uprising, you're just going to turn to the Empire and go "Can you help us?"

We're not asking for your help. We'd simply be bolstering your ranks in the coming war with the Dominion. Why wouldn't you accept our offer of allegiance?

Empire won't give a pl*** about you anymore if Skyrim is independent. If the war was to break out soon, the Stormcloaks won't even be in any position to aid the Empire.

Then I suppose you'll die at the foot of your own hubris.

Yes they are. The Empire didn't account for a Dragon suddenly appearing. Tullius had nearly ended the rebellion and captured Ulfric Stormcloak in a few months. I doubt anyone expected more resources and manpower would be needed.

Considering after that ordeal the war is basically met with a stalemate I'd say you're wrong on that one.

Torygg was on the fence. Just needed swaying in either direction.

I don't know. She made it pretty clear he wasn't gonna do it with that last wall of text. I mean she did raise him, so what does she know, right?

Not at all, I think it will make Skyrim very interesting. Nords will ruin themselves once more, they have for the Second and Third Empire. Perhaps you'll do it again for the Fourth Empire if one appears.

Well that Fourth Empire is definitely looking like more of a reality considering what you idiots are planning.

You still trade with us even while we're seceded. There is an East Empire Company warehouse in Windhelm with boats that is operating. We benefit from each other too greatly, we won't cut off trade simply because we're no longer allies.

I wasn't talking about the EETC. Skyrim gets free resources from the Empire, and they also have free trade while under the Empire. The EETC tax like a bitch.

True, but as you know the Nords of Skyrim have always benefited from trade with the other provinces. We have quite a few exotic commodities that people from other provinces want. It would be quite easy for us to form our own trading unions and industries.

If it was an Ebony mine, they would enjoy it. Markarth's Silver is what Markarth trades between the Holds, pays their guards and loans to land holders.

A single silver mine wouldn't really bother the Empire, they didn't really care when the Reachmen had taken it.

I don't know, I think Ulfric makes it clear that you were *ahem* RAPING Markarth of its silver.

Not the first time the Empire's been on the brink of destruction, won't be the last. The Empire and mankind is like a cockroach. They bounce back constantly and keep getting up.

Like a Cockroach, eh? So you can survive for 2 weeks without your head? Well I suppose that gives you a bit of time when the Emperor inevitably gets murdered.

Lol? I guess the ships from Cyrodiil carrying weapons and supplies are just for pl***s and giggles.

What ships? You mean the ONE that wrecked off the coast of Hjaalmarch? Yeah, THAT'S doing them a lot of good.

Skyrim is part of the Empire. Erikur doesn't fund the Legion, he sometimes sells to them for a very high price.

Hah Hah, wrong.
Erikur: "The Jarl would be wise to remember that it is her thanes - and my profits - that are paying for this war."

Though in a manner of speaking I suppose you could say he funds the Legion. Much like you fund your country's Military, taxes are what pays for the Legions.

And the Thanes of Solitude and Solitude's coffers.

I did enjoy that link you had, fun read. Though I guess whoever wrote that had no idea about the ships from Anvil.

Again though, that's one ship. Most of the "Legion's" Weapons are being made in Solitude by the Castle Blacksmith.

I did like how whole "Only thing Imperial about the Imperial Legion is the name and Tullius!!" Oh And what wit. "Cause the Imperial in the name must mean race hur dur. Empire must mean Cyrodiil!!!!!" Because Skyrim isn't considered an Imperial province, nor were they part of the Empire...

I think the point of the document soared over your head. The point was that your Empire is conscripting men from Skyrim to fight this war, and draining Solitude's coffers to continue it. You're the ones pitting brother against brother and your Empire is barely even funding it. And yeah, the Empire is kind of synonymous with Cyrodiil, considering it is based out of Cyrodiil which is the homeland of the Imperials both Colovian and Nibenese.

Brothers were fighting brothers before the Legion stepped in. Stormcloaks were having skirmishes years ago. It is a Civil War.

And yet you continue the trend by forcing conscription unto men of the Western holds. Hell, at least we let them join.

Pointless venture? Reconnecting Cyrodiil to High Rock, resources and taxes, recruitment and conscriptions.

reconnecting High Rock makes sense, obviously you wouldn't want to lose such a valuable ally who's been nothing but loyal. Now resources can be traded and a few black sheep soldiers from Skyrim will still run off to join the Imperials anyway. And you can pretty much guarantee our presence on that battlefield when you finally DO take the fight to the Dominion. We'd cross a thousand miles to fight those long eared bastards anyday!

You mean Jarl Hrolfdir arresting Ulfric? It was the birthplace of the Stormcloaks, however the rebellion didn't gain ground until the Thalmor started stirring up trouble to send people to Ulfric's cause. Also Ulfric killing the High King is what sent it to full swing, since Ulfric had little support before hand.

The Thalmor were always causing trouble since the signing of the treaty. That was most likely Ulfric's main motivation behind libertheolizing (word I came up with don't ask) Markarth.

Because Nords are not fair-weather friends.

And that gives us a reason TO break our backs for you?

Eras of prosperity, The one time the Nords have to take one on the chin for the Empire, they can't handle it.

The one time? We've been lining your legions for centuries. What, you think all conscripts came from Colovia and Cyrodiil?

This war has been a long time coming, it is about time the Empire put the boot down on Skyrim. For too long the Empire has had to deal with the stupidity of Nords, having to clean up the mess that Skyrim makes and the political tensions of when they annex Imperials fiefdoms, attacking Legion forts and being a pain in the ass.

"Stupidity of the Nords"
GER I TOT DE EMPUR WASN RASICST HURR DURR.

It isn't any surprise Talos wanted Imperial nobility to rule the provinces... Shame we didn't listen.

Wow. Seriously, weren't you recently saying the Empire wasn't racist?

I know what symbolism is, however it is box art. You claim it is to represent the collapse of the Empire.

I see it as representing the Dragonborn and the Dragons that are the main focus of the game. Akatosh being a Dragon, Alduin being considered an aspect of Akatosh since Morrowind and Oblivion. Dragons and Dragonborn being main thing. Not to mention the exact same symbol, the white with the broken wing is the cover of "The book of the Dragonborn" in-game.

Why is it broken and chipped? Because it looks worn, like an old book cover.

WHAT!? REPRESENTS THE DRAGONBORN!? IT'S ALWAYS REPRESENTED THE EMPIRE SINCE IT'S FOUNDING! IT'S ON THE DOORS OF THE WHITE GOLD TOWER! IT'S ON IMPERIAL ARMOR! IT'S ON YOUR FUC*ING FLAG FOR FUC*S SAKES!

LOOK! LOOK AT YOUR BANNER! DOES THIS MEAN NOTHING TO YOU! DOES IT MEAN FUC*ING NOTHING!

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Just some minor stuff.

1.) Rogue mages, there are plenty of dungeons with mages in them and there's also a world encounter where you get attacked by necromancers. Not very surprising in chaotic times like these, when there's so many tombs with hundreds of corpses; even in the 2nd Era Skyrim was a suitable place for Necromancers:

In Skyrim, the cold weather and isolated terrain allow a few Necromancers to operate freely. Alas, the availability of corpses is limited to Nords who die from exposure or in battle. While the cold is preservative, the snow makes these corpses difficult to find. [...] These difficulties lead many Necromancers to create their own corpses. While I prefer to work with those who have died a natural death, a more expedient approach is sometimes necessary to further the study of the Art.

Necromancers have been a problem everywhere, and they usually keep to themselves. i don't see them being a huge issue in the coming future.

Maven: "I have payments to make you realize. If I can't make them, I can't make Black-Briar Mead." OR "Quite. To be brief, I need compensation for the lost shipment. Since Riften was responsible for it, Riften should pay for it."
Laila: "We... don't have enough to..."
Riften is so low on money they can't pay a single one of Maven's shipments. Hell, just another clear sign Riften belonged to Maven even if she didn't sit on that throne.

I'm quite aware Riften belongs to Maven and I will never dispute this fact. It only goes to show that Laila's word on Ulfric means jack shi* if she can't see the snake in the grass nipping at her heels. Obviously it's clear she doesn't have a good judgement of character. Shame the player can't take more action into their own hands

Elisif: "As you know, Solitude's coffers are much depleted by the war efforts. ..."

All this piece of dialogue shows is that she's been making the citizens of Solitude pay for a war that the Empire should be paying for.

Siddgeir in Falkreath even dealed with bandits who offered money, so he can't be filthy-rich either anymore. He's also awfully impatient about getting his taxes:

Siddgeir: "Why have taxes not come in from Granite Hill, Nenya? We should send some guards down there."
Nenya: "They are only a little late, Jarl. The trade routes are affected by the war, we should give them another day."
Siddgeir: "Very well, but when their emissary arrives I want words with him."

3.) Economic suicide; you mentioned it earlier but maybe clarifying it to the Stormcloaks how bad the EEC goes about it's taxes will help anyway. You just have to check on the dialogue of Raven Rock NPCs.

Gjalund:"Before you even ask... yes, I have the supplies you requested. But..."
Adril:"But what?"
Gjalund:"This load cost me double what we had agreed on. Nothing I can do about it."
Adril:"Damn it, Gjalund. You know we don't have that much coin."
Gjalund:"Look, the East Empire Company didn't give me a choice. They've raised their prices again, and there's nothing I can do about it."
Adril:"After all these years, they're gouging us for every last drake we have. Let me talk to Lleril. I'll see what we can do."

"Solitude... home to the East Empire Company, the heartless bastards." --Teldryn Sero

There's also plenty of dialogue to go around regarding starving citizens, razed farms and so on; the only place to get food from beside the EEC appears to be Rorikstead, but a single horde of bandits could change that. And a single little settlement can't feed a whole country.
I doubt Ulfric will have to worry about the Nords being conquered by outsider forces, because there won't be a Skyrim left to conquer.

Golly gee, I guess we really are screwed! I mean it's not like we're a culture of seafaring people who have benefited from nautical trade for centuries. Oh woe is me! What are we gonna DO!?

 

[DrunkenMage]

Right because we were still a part of the Empire and the Emperor, Thules the Gibbering was unliked. So basically what you're saying is, We rebelled against the Empire once and before, and it faired pretty well for us? Cool, guess things are on the up and up

They endorsed Titus Mede. Didn't take part open rebellion, but backed his claim politically.

After seven long, bloody years the Stormcrown Interregnum was ended when a Colovian warlord by the name of Titus Mede seized the crown. Whether he had rightful claim or not is moot. Without Titus Mede, there would not be an Empire today. He proved a shrewd and capable leader, such that Skyrim endorsed him as Emperor.

They chose him to lead them.

The last time Skyrim openly rebelled against the Empire it did not fair well.

Not true actually, if you care to look at the UESP article on the Tiber Wars:

The jarls of Skyrim and the petty kings of High Rock were the first to fall. - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Wars

Read the whole page, the alliance was broken after Talos' victory over the Reachmen. The Nords joined him after Sancre Tor.

So was Ulfric, what's your point?

That the Empire supports whoever can rule.

Have you been paying attention to anything Tulius and Rikke have been saying? They are advocating for Elisif to be on the Throne. Ulfric fears the end result of this election if she is to be elected as any rational person would be. She was the one who offered to send a Legion of Guards to clear out a cave some farmer said he heard noises from, remember?

And? The Legion has no say in who becomes High King or Queen. They're backing Elisif's claim, which the Stormcloaks are rejecting. All of the Jarls have claim, and the Empire wants it settled.

That was made evident with the Emperor's signature in that Concordant.

Shame you didn't stand up to High King Istlod who agreed for Skyrim. Had to wait for the boy to get the chair.

Did you read the document past line 4?
Falk: "We know full well about your investment in shipping ventures, Erikur. I've also heard troubling rumors about dealings between you and the crew of that pirate ship, the Red Wave. Thankfully, Jarl Elisif cares far less about your lost profits than she does about winning the war!"
Erikur: "The Jarl would be wise to remember that it is her thanes - and my profits - that are paying for this war."

Everyone is paying for the war. Skyrim is under martial law, the Military have control of the resources which has been established since the Second Era under Imperial requisition policy.

Erikur makes wealth for Solitude, Solitude pays tax to the Legion. Which costs increase or decrease depending on the situation.

They developed and maintained a system of garrisons throughout Tamriel, manning and supplying each in accordance with the threats they faced - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Imperial_Legion

So not only is he funding the war, he's also being allowed to operate with pirates without so much as a peep from Elisif, proving the corruption among the aristocracy of Solitude and the "Imperial" Legion.

Really? A corrupt Thane = Imperial Legion too? You're grasping here, provinces fund the Legions that has been established since Morrowind.

Not only are they being funded by Erikur and the Thanes of Solitude but they're also conscripting members of the Haafingar Guard and the citizens of the Imperial holds. So much for just protectors, eh?

Solitude would be paying in coin and soldiers anyway, Ulfric is at war with them.

The Thanes own properties that generate income, the Thanes then pay taxes to Solitude. I'll detail it out very simply for you:

Citizen 1 works in a shop, this shop makes money from sales. Citizen 1 pays rent to the owner of the property Thane 1. Thane 1 collects rent from their holdings. Thane 1 pays part of their profits to Jarl 1. Jarl 1 collects part of the income from Thane 1 & 2. Jarl 1 also collects tax from Land Owner 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5. Jarl 1 pays tax to Empire who Jarl 1 swore fealty to.

Jarl 1 is at war with Jarl 2, General 1 representing the Empire takes over as Military Governor 1.
Jarl 1 pays Military Governor 1 extra because it is war-time.

Stormcloaks conscript guards too? So what point are you making.

True, however as stated above the Empire isn't even spending resources in this war, which means General Tulius-
Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."
-Is a dirty little liar.

Skyrim = Empire. Resources Skyrim spends in the war = resources the Empire spends. That is what being part of the Empire is son.

1.) You don't fuc*ing know that secret worshipers weren't rounded up and tortured

"We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos."

& 2.)A man should be able to practice their religion openly. What you're not stating is that places of worship were shut down. Congregations where people came together and rejoiced in their faith were banned and people who attended them were arrested. This doesn't seem like a problem to you? When arguably the most superstitious race is not allowed the free worship of a god so important to them, it's not an issue to the Empire? No wonder we hate you and your ways. You don't give a shi* about anyone but yourselves and you're running an EMPIRE

I'd have thought religious people understood sacrifice.

Okay. I'm gonna put this in words you can understand Since you clearly don't get it; Let's say you're a child and you REALLY love Ice Cream. You love it to the point of fanaticism and you've been allowed and encouraged to eat it under no supervision or chastization from your parents. Now, let's say that under some FREAK occurrence, your father loses a bet with some dude who thinks he can raise you better than your father can. The man is warranted to come into your home and tell you how to live for a YEAR. So this guy struts into your house with a new set of house rules. One of those rules being that you can no longer eat Ice Cream. "This is an outrage! "How could my father let this happen to me!" you think to yourself. In your head you know that you'd do anything for the sweet creamy frozen bliss that is Ice Cream. You brilliantly and unexpectedly come up with a solution; "No matter, I'll simply do it in secret." This new guy somehow KNOWS that you're going to attempt to eat Ice Cream clandestinely and he ups the ante in terms of security and always watches you. You do manage to sneak in a bit of Ice Cream here and there but eventually you get caught and severely beaten and scolded by this new sadistic overseer and he grounds you. Meanwhile, you overhear that your brother, who lives on the western side of the house, is rebelling against this new guardian's rule, which allowed him joint-ownership of half of your brother's room. He ends up barely fighting off the patriarch of tyranny's malevolent attempts at subterfuge and is allowed to keep full control of his room. Hearing about your brother's success you decide to try your hand in also regaining your Ice Cream privileges, however the man is protected by your father because he doesn't want to pay more money to the man that has invaded your home and personal space. What do you do?

That is the most stupid bullplops you have ever written, and that is something.

Talos was banned after five years of destructive warfare. Hundreds of thousands dead, homes destroyed, families ruined and countless innocents raped and tortured and left homeless. Where was Talos then?

What do you do when millions look to you for safety and peace, and you can no longer hold up the fight. You need to recover and rebuild, to aid your countless citizens who are needing you and you can barely protect them.

That is what makes the Empire good, because they can swallow their pride and make the sacrifice to save the many.

Because Nords are the native populace and the majority. This is how almost every medieval society went about things. The Natives were above the foreigners, that's just how things are. That's not to say that men and women of other races won't have rights, but naturally they will be looked on as outsiders and that's just how things are.

In the First Era perhaps, except it is now the Fourth Era where races have mingled. You don't just undo two Eras of working together because your race has more people there, and therefor you should come first.

It is not how things are under the Empire, and the Stormcloaks are just backwards fanatics, no better than the Alessian Order.

And more Nords have died in the Great War than in any Nordic involvement in History. Most of whom had no idea what they were fighting for because they were conscripts.

Many joined willingly, conscripts fighting against an elven invasion. You do what you have to do.

Name one in Skyrim. Give me one Warlord willing to fight against the combined might of a unified Skyrim, that fits the textbook definition of a Warlord
war·lord
ˈwôrˌlôrd/
noun
noun: warlord; plural noun: warlords

1. a military commander, especially an aggressive regional commander with individual autonomy.

There wasn't a named one in Cyrodiil until after the game. Tamriel has various Warlords.

I'm just saying that 8 other holds would be totally unaffected. Just as well, the Forsworn have proven pretty inefficient at holding territories considering they could be driven away by a small militia. They excel at disruption but organized warfare is not their strong suit.

In time it can be.

Yeah if you don't get pl*** on by the Dominion like you always do.

Seems the Empire has beaten the Dominion more than they have beaten the Empire.

Yeah, you missed quite a few things actually.
1.) The Civil War can be recovered from with a unified workforce driven by the catalyst of battling Elven Supremacy

Except your workforce are busy being soldiers.

2.) A normal Dragon can be killed by 5 town guards

Gameply or lore wise?

3.) The Forsworn are again only a problem to one hold

So their camps in other Holds don't exist? I seem to recall one in Whiterun.

4.) Bandits have plagued every province for centuries with marginal success

At the height of a province's power, however Skyrim is having a lot of problems with bandits.

5.) The Vampires are being handled by the Dawnguard

Still attack towns.

Other than that whole plague thing things should go well. Oh and by the way, a Plague isn't going to be contained into one province buddy. Good luck campaigning with sick soldiers!

Empire has the Council of Healers, hundreds of Mages and conduct extensive research on disease.

So good luck to you.

Tulius toyed with Ulfric too

Not to create drama.

Tullius: "Well Ulfric, you can't escape from me this time. Any last requests before I send you to... to wherever you people go when you die."
Rikke: "Sovngarde... sir."
Tullius: "Right. Well?"
Ulfric: "Let the Dragonborn be the one to do it. It'll make for a better song."
Tullius: "Song or not, I just want it done."

A speech you can abstain from being mentioned in should you so choose

Still wanted me in it.

Yeah, because the EMPIRE definitely isn't using any secret and false method of stabilizing troop morale.

Legion is pretty straight forward.

Considering after that ordeal the war is basically met with a stalemate I'd say you're wrong on that one.

When Tullius loses reliable communication with Cyrodiil, until he takes the Rift?

I don't know. She made it pretty clear he wasn't gonna do it with that last wall of text. I mean she did raise him, so what does she know, right?

Nords follow their hearts, she's a Breton and a Mage. Not exactly the sort who do things on a whim.

True, but as you know the Nords of Skyrim have always benefited from trade with the other provinces.

When they weren't mistrusting and refusing to trade by race.

I don't know, I think Ulfric makes it clear that you were *ahem* RAPING Markarth of its silver.

The Silver-Bloods are to be sure.

What ships? You mean the ONE that wrecked off the coast of Hjaalmarch? Yeah, THAT'S doing them a lot of good.

"With the war, many more ships come through these docks. Loaded with weapons and pay, but few people."

Hah Hah, wrong.
Erikur: "The Jarl would be wise to remember that it is her thanes - and my profits - that are paying for this war."

He pays taxes to Solitude, who pay to the Legion. Erikur owns several establishments in Solitude who pay him rent, who in turn pays the crown, who in turn pays the Legion.

And the Thanes of Solitude and Solitude's coffers.

Tax.

tax
taks/
noun
noun: tax; plural noun: taxes
1.
a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits, or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.

Again though, that's one ship. Most of the "Legion's" Weapons are being made in Solitude by the Castle Blacksmith.

Ships, plural.

So? The Empire create weapons everywhere.

I think the point of the document soared over your head.

It went over yours.

The point was that your Empire is conscripting men from Skyrim to fight this war,

Skyrim is part of the Empire.

and draining Solitude's coffers to continue it.

Provinces pay for the Military, as do countries in our world. I'm sure the United States doesn't drain money to pay for war... I'm sure the Roman Empire never had provinces pay for wars too... Oh wait.

And yeah, the Empire is kind of synonymous with Cyrodiil, considering it is based out of Cyrodiil which is the homeland of the Imperials both Colovian and Nibenese.

Third Empire of Tamriel.

And yet you continue the trend by forcing conscription unto men of the Western holds. Hell, at least we let them join.

So the Stormcloaks don't conscript the guards of Holds, oh wait, they do.

"I swear, that Aeri and her men would make fine Stormcloak recruits. Pity we can't spare the lumber to conscript them. Here. Take this. For your time and all that."

Oh look, citizens can be conscripted too.

The one time? We've been lining your legions for centuries. What, you think all conscripts came from Colovia and Cyrodiil?

Lol. You keep mentioning conscripts, majority of the time recruits join willingly. Except in times of dire need, or if they're wards of the crown then they must serve a tour.

Wow. Seriously, weren't you recently saying the Empire wasn't racist?

Empire isn't. Talos was.

WHAT!? REPRESENTS THE DRAGONBORN!? IT'S ALWAYS REPRESENTED THE EMPIRE SINCE IT'S FOUNDING! IT'S ON THE DOORS OF THE WHITE GOLD TOWER! IT'S ON IMPERIAL ARMOR! IT'S ON YOUR FUC*ING FLAG FOR FUC*S SAKES!

LOOK! LOOK AT YOUR BANNER! DOES THIS MEAN NOTHING TO YOU! DOES IT MEAN FUC*ING NOTHING!

Caps lock doesn't make your argument.

It is made to look like wear and tear of an old book. Grab your Skyrim copy, look at the cover. Load up your game, find the in-game book titled "Book of the Dragonborn".

 

[DrunkenMage]

I'm quite aware Riften belongs to Maven and I will never dispute this fact. It only goes to show that Laila's word on Ulfric means jack shi* if she can't see the snake in the grass nipping at her heels. Obviously it's clear she doesn't have a good judgement of character. Shame the player can't take more action into their own hands

Judgement of character? Maven doesn't openly present herself as a threat, and most of what you hear about her is hearsay or rumor. There is no real evidence against Maven, besides people fearing her.

All this piece of dialogue shows is that she's been making the citizens of Solitude pay for a war that the Empire should be paying for.

The citizens of Solitude are Imperial citizens, citizens of the Empire.

Ships filled with pay arrive at Solitude. Taxes have always gone towards the Legion and Empire since Septim days, and during times of war most resources are devoted to the war effort.

Skyrim is part of the Empire. It is easier to use resources at hand than waiting weeks and months for shipments to arrive from abroad. Though for the Empire to be in the right in your mind, the Legion in Skyrim should be idiots who sit around waiting for everything to come from Cyrodiil.

Golly gee, I guess we really are screwed! I mean it's not like we're a culture of seafaring people who have benefited from nautical trade for centuries. Oh woe is me! What are we gonna DO!?

Centuries under the Empire.

In the Fourth Era, the only trade vessels are buying from the EETC or coming from Shatter-Shield's Company which will fail since the only reason they were doing well was a deal they had with pirates who get destroyed by the EETC. Also with the Argonians now stealing from them in rebellion against the treatment they get from the Nords.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

Later on he explains why he does it in this bit of dialogue;
Elisif: "As you know, Solitude's coffers are much depleted by the war efforts. Thane Erikur, you have a strong head for business. What do you suggest?"
Erikur: "This is an unfortunate but unavoidable ebb in revenue. But as long as we continue to support the Empire, our sacrifices will be well rewarded."
Bryling: "Listen to you, speaking of sacrifice. You've never gone hungry a day in your life, Erikur!"
Elisif: "And what would my impetuous Thane Bryling suggest, instead?"
Bryling: "Simple. Let the Empire fight its own war, with its own funds, and without hijacking our supplies and soldiers. Let Haafingar rebuild."
Erikur: "My lady... Surely you're not that naive. Such foolishness would only leave us defenseless. The rebels would storm the palace in an afternoon."
Bryling: "The Stormcloaks only rebel because the Empire uses Skyrim as its personal larder. The more they take, the more support the rebels gain!"
Elisif: "That is quite enough. Perhaps I will raise these issues when I have an audience with General Tullius."

---

You shouldn't skip lines either. Why are they taking supplies and needing soldiers? That's right, because Solitude itself barely has a defense, they try to keep their land functional. As part of the Empire they are under the protection of the Imperial Legion, but even they can't live from love and air, they need supplies to be functional themselves. In the meantime Ulfric has no backup at all, and doesn't give a crap about his people's needs, he'll sacrifice everything for his rebellion - everything but himself.

Necromancers have been a problem everywhere, and they usually keep to themselves. i don't see them being a huge issue in the coming future.

There's a crazy Altmer necromancer with necrophilia having his own residence in Stormcloak territory. And this Caller chick you visit from a Winterhold quest. When criminals are able to build up their own territories without interferences or consequences something's wrong, don't you think?

Golly gee, I guess we really are screwed! I mean it's not like we're a culture of seafaring people who have benefited from nautical trade for centuries. Oh woe is me! What are we gonna DO!?

But who are you going to trade with, hm? Guess you'll have to beg the Thalmor for supplies after all. But considering they already funded a rebellious group in Cyrodiil they might actually do it.

 

[Pendalyn]

Soo... after you two have gone back and forth like this, quite intelligently and interestingly amusing to be sure, is the questions solved? Imperials or stormcloaks? I don't want to support any senile idiots or spoiled grieving widows, so is there a solution that allows me to join forces against the AD? I haven't explored this quest line in any of my games and have been looking to lately.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

Soo... after you two have gone back and forth like this, quite intelligently and interestingly amusing to be sure, is the questions solved? Imperials or stormcloaks? I don't want to support any senile idiots or spoiled grieving widows, so is there a solution that allows me to join forces against the AD? I haven't explored this quest line in any of my games and have been looking to lately.

Definitely Imperials. The most funny fact-battle-posts start somewhere around page 750 if you feel like looking them up.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Definitely Imperials. The most funny fact-battle-posts start somewhere around page 750 if you feel like looking them up.

One thing that I find quite interesting is that a lot of Stormcloak supporters use Maven as example why the Empire is bad. That her becoming Jarl is a major reason why they should oppose the Imperials.

Maven does things out of business, be it legal or illegal. You know where she stands, she doesn't get personal and won't do something for no reason. You don't know if Thonar will set up some massacre out of roid rage from potions his wife is giving him to "fuel his ambitions".

Don't need to worry about Maven frothing at the mouth and deciding to wipe out a village cause drugs are telling her to.

The Silver-Bloods, Markarth is on the edge of another massacre starting. Corruption is at a level where the guards are the real thugs, and mercenaries can shut down mines until the owners sell, I wouldn't be surprised if some "Forsworn" attacks were staged.

Forced labor isn't new for some jails in Tamriel, but Cidna Mine is a prison where there are no guards who uphold the law. People are thrown in there to dig up silver for the sake of profit for another. This is just slavery, the Silver-Bloods need people to constantly keep digging up their silver, which means more people get sent there for anything they decide. When the Stormcloaks have full control, they plan to enslave the Forsworn to dig up the silver.

Stormcloaks in this thread talk about how they will have Markarth for wealth in their independence. Depending so much on that silver will increase demand. More demand means more workload, more workload means more people needed. More slave labor, but who to pick? I wonder

Skyrim for the Nords indeed.

 

[Pendalyn]

I love how deeply the writers of the game interlaced the game and the story. I sometimes don't pay enough attention to dialogue and I don't follow from story to story. It's neat to see when I do, and very cool to see how deeply others get into it. Love Skyrim... bought the 5 pack of TES games a year ago and haven't gotten to the others cause I'm not done with skyrim yet