Who realistically would win the Civil War?

[Madrar]

I was going to raise that point. As Jeremius said, the Empire is now only a shadow of its' former glory. Hammerfell seceeded, Argonia and Morrowind really have no interest in the war, while the Dominion is hoping that both sides will wipe each other out. And if either side DID win, by some miracle, the Dominion, which has probably been marshalling it's strength since the last war, would be able to pick off both the Empire and what was left of the Stormcloaks.

 

[TheDovahkiin]

I don't think anyone would win. Thalmor would step in and put down the victor.

 

[WoodElf15]

I have thought of it like The Revolutionary War for The United States, The Stormcloaks are the American Colonies and The Empire is The British. I would also think that Ulfric is a lot like George Washington in the way that everyone looked up to him and was pretty much their leader. Everyone thought the Colonies were going to lose and it was going to be a short war, but look at what happened. I believe The Stormcloaks would win just because of their spirit and determination to get what they want.

 

[Mr1cammando]

I don't think anyone would win. Thalmor would step in and put down the victor.

Maybe not like that per se, but the Thalmor is a rouge element in all of this. We still don't know the size of their army, their true power or the strength of their soldiers.

 

[Mr1cammando]

I have thought of it like The Revolutionary War for The United States, The Stormcloaks are the American Colonies and The Empire is The British. I would also think that Ulfric is a lot like George Washington in the way that everyone looked up to him and was pretty much their leader. Everyone thought the Colonies were going to lose and it was going to be a short war, but look at what happened. I believe The Stormcloaks would win just because of their spirit and determination to get what they want.

There isn't an ocean dividing Skyrim from the rest of the empire. It is said in history classes that if the british had better maps and faster sea travel, they would have won the war. George Washington never killed any kings, he was a man fighting a war of freedom. Ulfric however, is fighting a war for himself, under the guise of fighting for talos and against the empire. Spirit and determination only get you so far. A militia has little chance against a fight force renowned for its conquering abilities. (AKA, When the Empire still controlled Tamriel)

 

[Jeremius]

Let's remover Talos, Ulfric and the killing of Torygg, and get down to the heart of the war. That heart being; Is it right to take away FREEDOM, in favor of SECURITY?

 

[Mr1cammando]

Let's remover Talos, Ulfric and the killing of Torygg, and get down to the heart of the war. That heart being; Is it right to take away FREEDOM, in favor of SECURITY?

We can still have both. Should the Civil war never have happened, I would expect the Empire to recoup their losses and repeal the WGC, starting the next war.

 

[azali100]

Let's remover Talos, Ulfric and the killing of Torygg, and get down to the heart of the war. That heart being; Is it right to take away FREEDOM, in favor of SECURITY?

Security. A leader who puts honor before reason is no leader at all. The Emperor made the right call. Especially since the securing is just buying them time to take back freedom.

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[Mr1cammando]

Security. A leader who puts honor before reason is no leader at all. The Emperor made the right call. Especially since the securing is just buying them time to take back freedom.

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Thank you. You said that better than I ever could.

 

[Argonianale7]

The Empire, They are way better supplied, trained..everything. Sure the Stormcloaks have homefield advantage here, but having that advantage didn't stop Tiber Septim from conquering all the other provinces...

Black Marsh? The Argonians defended their territory very well and Tiber Mc racist couldn't even get into the heart of the province, the Nords should be fine.

 

[WoodElf15]

There isn't an ocean dividing Skyrim from the rest of the empire. It is said in history classes that if the british had better maps and faster sea travel, they would have won the war. George Washington never killed any kings, he was a man fighting a war of freedom. Ulfric however, is fighting a war for himself, under the guise of fighting for talos and against the empire. Spirit and determination only get you so far. A militia has little chance against a fight force renowned for its conquering abilities. (AKA, When the Empire still controlled Tamriel)

That is true, I didn't even think of the ocean or that Ulfric had killed a king. Your right, it does only get you so far but I still think they could have held there ground.

 

[Jaeger]

Great read, well thought out and written, one thing though don't these two contradict each other?




The imperials would win, having the constant reinforcements from Cyrodiil would help them prevail.

What reinforcements from Cryodiil? If you speak to the commanders of the imperial camps they are stretched thin and there won't be any.

And if they do bring in reinforcements...how many are there nords in there? Plus, the Thalmor would looovvveee the Empire taking troops away from the south (where the AD is) and take 'em north. You fell in the trap! Weeeeeeeeess!

 

[Omega Dragon]

Of course if Ulfric was smart he'd try teaching Shouting to his most loyal men. Takes years to master a shout sure. But if I were him I'd have begun training before challenging Toryg. Of course for whatever reason you never do come across a Stormcloak who is capable of shouting. Which to me feels like 1) Ulfric is just too damn paranoid or 2) He was entirely stupid and forgot this. Again from what I understand Shouting is a skill any Nord can have with the right dedication and training and probably lots and lots of meditation.

Teaching is its own skill. We all have our cliches, but just as we can't all be leaders, we can't all be teachers either.

I have thought of it like The Revolutionary War for The United States, The Stormcloaks are the American Colonies and The Empire is The British. I would also think that Ulfric is a lot like George Washington in the way that everyone looked up to him and was pretty much their leader. Everyone thought the Colonies were going to lose and it was going to be a short war, but look at what happened. I believe The Stormcloaks would win just because of their spirit and determination to get what they want.

Here's the problem: the Stormcloak is a "personality cult", so while it is possible -as I've even argued in this very thread I do believe- for the Stormcloaks to survive without Ulfric, there's a problem with your analogy: George Washington was not anything remotely close to being the only "morale leader" of the Revolutionary War: Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry, and Thomas Paine were the far better voices for the war (and they either recognized that the Revolution started in the early 1700s and/or they wanted war sooner than later).

(^Edit: Not to mention, the Revolutionary War was not backed by a personality cult to begin with.)

Let's remover Talos, Ulfric and the killing of Torygg, and get down to the heart of the war. That heart being; Is it right to take away FREEDOM, in favor of SECURITY?

In-game wise: it makes no difference, I'll kill any damned fool that gets in my way.

Realistically: never. Not a single government in history has reverted from security to freedom. Government, once created, only feeds on the security of the weak to destroy the freedom of its undesirables.

 

[The_Madgod]

Everyone! Flee! This is going to erupt into a full-fledged flame war, if it hasn't happened already! Hide your families! Bolt down your doors! Run for the hills! The apocalypse is nearly upon us!​

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This 1000th post approved by Sheogorath. Take that, Mini Mongo! Mwuhahaha! ​

 

[Chowder138]

Imperials, obviously. The Stormcloaks are an army of, what, 200 guys? The Empire covers most of Tamriel.

 

[Jeremius]

Imperials, obviously. The Stormcloaks are an army of, what, 200 guys? The Empire covers most of Tamriel.

Not anymore, most of Tamriel is Either Dominion or Independent, with the empire being only the Imperials the Breton, and the Nords.

Question for you all in here, With another war with the Thalmor looming overhead, who would make the better ruler: Ulfric the warmonger who could likely get recruitment up to like the hundreds of nords, or the diplomatic and easily swayed Elisif?

 

[azali100]

Not anymore, most of Tamriel is Either Dominion or Independent, with the empire being only the Imperials the Breton, and the Nords.

Question for you all in here, With another war with the Thalmor looming overhead, who would make the better ruler: Ulfric the warmonger who could likely get recruitment up to like the hundreds of nords, or the diplomatic and easily swayed Elisif?

Like Ulfric you fail to see the big picture. You put Ulfric on the throne and the war is over. Now what? You have a power hungry warmonger (your words not mine) on the throne. Elisif at least can be advised by people who know what they are doing. Elisif may be inexperienced, but inexperience is somthing that goes away with time and education. Can you say the same for Ulfric's behavior.

 

[Jeremius]

Like Ulfric you fail to see the big picture. You put Ulfric on the throne and the war is over. Now what? You have a power hungry warmonger (your words not mine) on the throne. Elisif at least can be advised by people who know what they are doing. Elisif may be inexperienced, but inexperience is somthing that goes away with time and education. Can you say the same for Ulfric's behavior.

I say that they both would make great leaders in their respective situations. The question was specifically who would be the better ruler for during the war, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Shavon Black]

Under the conditions the OP set, it looks like the Empire would be more likely to win, but they would probably suffer heavy losses.

 

[Flint firestorm]

Ok for the last time, There is a difference between a CIVIL WAR and a REVOLUTION so stop comparing a civil war with a revolution. You could compare it if 7 of the 13 colonise stayed with British and the other 6 revolted and tried to forcibly take the loyal colonies. If you want to make an accurate comparison then compare it to the Irish CIVIL WAR. Half of the country wanted to stay with the commonwealth (empire) and the other side wanted complete independence (stormcloacks).