Vampires or Werewolves
- Thread starter Anouck
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DestroyerDevourMaster
"Zu'u Alduin. Zok sahrot do naan ko Lein!"
I'm slightly biased towards werewolves because of the movie Van Helsing, I think the final battle was awesome. So trust me when I say if I didn't need Auriel's Bow to defeat Harkon I'd gladly go wolf on his undead behind and try to recreate that scene. Alas since he uses that Blood Magic shield when he's low on health it isn't meant to be.
Agentoringe
Active Member
lol how about both? I personally enjoy the roaming skyrim as a true hybrid, all the strengths, few of the weakness, swapping to whichever form is better for the situation 
plus if you transform fast enough, you can vampire lord/summon 2 gargoyles, transform back and then transform to the wolf and use the brotherhood totem to summon 2 spectral werewolves, nothing really survives that lol the true pinnacle of power between the two well that's my choice at least
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plus if you transform fast enough, you can vampire lord/summon 2 gargoyles, transform back and then transform to the wolf and use the brotherhood totem to summon 2 spectral werewolves, nothing really survives that lol the true pinnacle of power between the two well that's my choice at least Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Seanu Reaves
The Shogun of Gaming
Both! But how can we argue!!
Seanu Reaves
The Shogun of Gaming
Yeah if you have to be OP just stretch lore! Don't just blow it of! hahahaha
Agentoringe
Active Member
Well, to be fair she did specify which ONE of the two, personal preference, vampire, I'm an old school Ann Rice/Bram Stoker fan, when vampires had the power and strength and it was sheer luck you manage to kill one...as far as skyrim is concerned, yeah, vampires still, they retain the gist of that power while at the same time if you were to go vampire lord vs werewolf, vampire lord wins no contest, unless it's a surprise attack and then the chances are only slightly better...vampires were given the edge in dawnguard, they should have went a little deeper into the werewolf perk tree with the abilities and/or strength boosts...it was definitely an improvement but still don't quite add up to VL lol
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Seanu Reaves
The Shogun of Gaming
Yeah I know what you mean. Werewolves fully upgraded are really strong but have less utility than VL powers. You get pretty damn tanky with the extra health and feasting but that is about it.
Agentoringe
Active Member
I'm sorry tx12001, i realize there is no direct link to a hybrid in skyrim lore, but can you show me in the lore where it says they DON'T exist??? Werebears sure, but a hybrid vampire werewolf? Nah lore breaker..pssh...I'd say if there was ANY version of fantasy lore that can pull off a hybrid and explain it in lore, or with holes in the lore, skyrim is the place to do it.
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tx12001
I will not tolerate failure...
yep because 1 blood type purges the other completely from the body and Vampires unlike werewolves are Undead, the closest in ES lore to a Hybrid are the Noxiphilic Sanguivorian Vampire Bloodline from ESO who are Vampires who have no sunlight weakness and become stronger when the moons are shining and have more wolflike features but are vampire dominant.
Agentoringe
Active Member
To be completely honest, I'd fit them I'm with ysgramor and the 500 companions, ysgramor being the hybrid and the companions divided into the two clans, i mean, unless his name was ysgramor "Leonidus" and 300 of those nords were Spartans, I have some difficulty with 500 nords wiping out that many elves without some sort of hidden powers, even with ahzidals enchantments I still refer to my Spartans comment, add the vampire/werewolf lineage and you got a force to be reckoned with lol plus allowing for the 2 races to have a disagreement and go thier separate ways. I mean come on, lol it wouldn't be that hard to work in at all
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Agentoringe
Active Member
Again homie, show me some lore quotes that show one is purged by the other, OR that there cant be a hybrid, either one...that could easily be explained by saying that the bloodlines are so watered down that it's easily routed from thier systems once another "virus" is contracted, I repeat...show me show me show me lol
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tx12001
I will not tolerate failure...
Harkon clearly states that in Dawnguard if you meet him as a werewolf "He states Yes I can smell it on my Blood will purge that filth from your body and make you whole again"
tx12001
I will not tolerate failure...
vampires did not exist in Ysgramor's time, he existed hundreds of years before the first vampire came to exist it happened in 105 1E when Molag Bal raped Lamae BeolfagTo be completely honest, I'd fit them I'm with ysgramor and the 500 companions, ysgramor being the hybrid and the companions divided into the two clans, i mean, unless his name was ysgramor "Leonidus" and 300 of those nords were Spartans, I have some difficulty with 500 nords wiping out that many elves without some sort of hidden powers, even with ahzidals enchantments I still refer to my Spartans comment, add the vampire/werewolf lineage and you got a force to be reckoned with lol plus allowing for the 2 races to have a disagreement and go thier separate ways. I mean come on, lol it wouldn't be that hard to work in at all
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Agentoringe
Active Member
Funny bc I don't see ANY lore references just you making claims, or using a single instance in game spoken by a specific bloodline of vampire (volkihar) because its clear according to lore that there are HUNDREDS of bloodlines of vampires scattered across tamriel, is it impossible to consider that ONE of them couldn't have a mixed bloodline and or be true hybrids? I think not sir it's very possible. lol according to UESP wiki Lamae Beolfag doesn't have a recorded date of birth or "death"..."[edit]Lamae Beolfag (?b - ?d)
Nedic woman and servant of Arkay who was brutally raped by Molag Bal. After being found by her people and cared for, death was said to have took her though some accounts have her actually recovering rapidly but due to the disease spreading throughout her body, her fearful kinsmen decided to purify her through fire. The night she was to be "cremated" she rose from "death" and began slaughtering her people, including the children; she became the first vampire and created more like herself in her rampages. She later earned the title of Blood Matron.[4] Although she was the first vampire, others have received the curse willingly from Molag Bal. Lamae's personality was initially still intact after Molag's attack but became vengeful when Arkay apparently forsook her and did nothing to prevent her being cursed, She renounced Arkay and in order to spite him, begun feeding upon his followers, spreading vampirism across Tamriel. Lamae's fate is unknown though she was active during the time Molag Bal attempted to merge his realm with Nirn."
Also ysgramor doesn't have a direct date associated with him either..."Ysgramor, "the harbinger of us all",[1] was an ancient Atmoran king who came to Tamriel before recorded history as a refugee fleeing civil war in Atmora.[2][3] Some Elven scholars insist Ysgramor was responsible for unspecified "provocations and blasphemies" that led to the genocide known as the Night of Tears, when the human settlement Saarthal was attacked by the Snow Elves and all humans purportedly slain except Ysgramor and his two sons, Yngol and Ylgar,[4] though some scholars believe this attack was unprovoked.[5] Ysgramor fled back to Atmora, gathered the legendary Five Hundred Companions, then sailed back to Hsaarik Head and drove the Elves from Skyrim and Solstheim, cementing himself as a "culture hero" of the Nords.[2][6][7] He wielded the axe Wuuthrad in battle.[8] Since he is the first known human to transcribe Nordic speech using Elven principles of writing, he is credited with being the first human historian.[2] Because of his exploits, he is known as "the first Harbinger, the first Man, [and] the bringer of Words", and the modern-day Companions still revere him as their only true leader.[9] His progeny ruled Skyrim until 1E 369, when the death of King Borgas brought an end to his direct line of known heirs.[5] However, he is still believed to be the wellspring from whom all Nordic kings are descended.[10]"
...and clearly stating that he came to tamriel BEFORE recorded history, given that Lamae and the events that took place between arkay and Molag bal don't have a date set to them according to the lore provided, it could EASILY be inferred that ysgramor and his "legendary" companions could have been vampires, werewolves or both...or had some contact with them in the in between...he's branded in that excerpt for being responsible for unspecified provocation and blasphemies, which the undead (of all kinds) and werewolves alike are considered to be...
Also I'm glad you brought up the possible/closest known hybrid being in elder scrolls online, because you unknowingly are helping me prove my point...due to the events in TESO occurring roughly a thousand years BEFORE the events of skyrim, there is clearly a closer bloodline of possible hybridization between the two...vampires with wolf like traits, no weakness to sunlight and stronger in the moonlight? yeah, who's to say a thousand years before that there wasnt a pure blooded hybrid that had ALL the strengths of both and NONE of the weaknesses? You clearly can't provide ANY lore to prove otherwise...which is why skyrim lore is so fun to debate there are alot of holes in it and alot of timeline gaps that just simply can't be accounted for...meaning a pure blood hybrid is VERY possible and VERY lore friendly. so I'm sorry bud, your point is decent, but very linear and doesn't even begin to encompass the vastness of tamrielic history, let alone the specifics in question here, and I honestly don't see how you could read the lore THOROUGHLY and not think a hybrid is possible lol I mean, the game is open to play how you see fit sure, but the possibility of it occurring AND being lore friendly is VERY real lol just hasn't been written in yet
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it's very possible. lol according to UESP wiki Lamae Beolfag doesn't have a recorded date of birth or "death"..."[edit]Lamae Beolfag (?b - ?d)Nedic woman and servant of Arkay who was brutally raped by Molag Bal. After being found by her people and cared for, death was said to have took her though some accounts have her actually recovering rapidly but due to the disease spreading throughout her body, her fearful kinsmen decided to purify her through fire. The night she was to be "cremated" she rose from "death" and began slaughtering her people, including the children; she became the first vampire and created more like herself in her rampages. She later earned the title of Blood Matron.[4] Although she was the first vampire, others have received the curse willingly from Molag Bal. Lamae's personality was initially still intact after Molag's attack but became vengeful when Arkay apparently forsook her and did nothing to prevent her being cursed, She renounced Arkay and in order to spite him, begun feeding upon his followers, spreading vampirism across Tamriel. Lamae's fate is unknown though she was active during the time Molag Bal attempted to merge his realm with Nirn."
Also ysgramor doesn't have a direct date associated with him either..."Ysgramor, "the harbinger of us all",[1] was an ancient Atmoran king who came to Tamriel before recorded history as a refugee fleeing civil war in Atmora.[2][3] Some Elven scholars insist Ysgramor was responsible for unspecified "provocations and blasphemies" that led to the genocide known as the Night of Tears, when the human settlement Saarthal was attacked by the Snow Elves and all humans purportedly slain except Ysgramor and his two sons, Yngol and Ylgar,[4] though some scholars believe this attack was unprovoked.[5] Ysgramor fled back to Atmora, gathered the legendary Five Hundred Companions, then sailed back to Hsaarik Head and drove the Elves from Skyrim and Solstheim, cementing himself as a "culture hero" of the Nords.[2][6][7] He wielded the axe Wuuthrad in battle.[8] Since he is the first known human to transcribe Nordic speech using Elven principles of writing, he is credited with being the first human historian.[2] Because of his exploits, he is known as "the first Harbinger, the first Man, [and] the bringer of Words", and the modern-day Companions still revere him as their only true leader.[9] His progeny ruled Skyrim until 1E 369, when the death of King Borgas brought an end to his direct line of known heirs.[5] However, he is still believed to be the wellspring from whom all Nordic kings are descended.[10]"
...and clearly stating that he came to tamriel BEFORE recorded history, given that Lamae and the events that took place between arkay and Molag bal don't have a date set to them according to the lore provided, it could EASILY be inferred that ysgramor and his "legendary" companions could have been vampires, werewolves or both...or had some contact with them in the in between...he's branded in that excerpt for being responsible for unspecified provocation and blasphemies, which the undead (of all kinds) and werewolves alike are considered to be...
Also I'm glad you brought up the possible/closest known hybrid being in elder scrolls online, because you unknowingly are helping me prove my point...due to the events in TESO occurring roughly a thousand years BEFORE the events of skyrim, there is clearly a closer bloodline of possible hybridization between the two...vampires with wolf like traits, no weakness to sunlight and stronger in the moonlight? yeah, who's to say a thousand years before that there wasnt a pure blooded hybrid that had ALL the strengths of both and NONE of the weaknesses? You clearly can't provide ANY lore to prove otherwise...which is why skyrim lore is so fun to debate
there are alot of holes in it and alot of timeline gaps that just simply can't be accounted for...meaning a pure blood hybrid is VERY possible and VERY lore friendly. so I'm sorry bud, your point is decent, but very linear and doesn't even begin to encompass the vastness of tamrielic history, let alone the specifics in question here, and I honestly don't see how you could read the lore THOROUGHLY and not think a hybrid is possible lol I mean, the game is open to play how you see fit sure, but the possibility of it occurring AND being lore friendly is VERY real lol just hasn't been written in yet Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Anouck
Queen of Procrastination
Hybrids in TES are actually a glitch. See, werewolf blood purges vampire blood. Hence why becoming a werewolf can cure you from vampirism. And werewolves are resistant to sanguine vampiris.
Blood types purging each other which would count as a physics law in the world of TES. And physics laws are consistent and don't make exceptions.
Blood types purging each other which would count as a physics law in the world of TES. And physics laws are consistent and don't make exceptions.
Agentoringe
Active Member
True, but if your going off of "in game logic" then why is it after a extended period of time as a werewolf you can be infected with vampirism? bug also? Or simply proving that the immunity to certain diseases are only dominant during the early stages of lycanthropy and wear off once the bloodline "settles"? I'm just saying, if your basing your "hybrids aren't possible" off of the events in skyrim, then you don't have much of an argument considering it deals with ONE bloodline of vampires lol that specific line my be strong enough to purge lycanthropy, but others may not, others may be routed by lycanthropy, others my mingle with it, there's no way to tell for sure lol also, its not really a glitch at all, if anything id say it proves that with proper timing during the transformation that the bloodlines CAN be mingled and a true hybrid can be born...lol the argument can be supported either way, which is why I stick to my guns that a hybrid, however "glitchy" you may see it, is not only a simple thing to achieve in skyrim without using anything special, but is a VERY possible occurrence in the realm of tamriel itself as there is no direct lore to prove otherwise until they fill that gap lol
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Anouck
Queen of Procrastination
I like the arguments you've brought up so far, but I have to correct you here: The TESO lore contradicts heavily with the general TES lore. Actually, a lot of Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind lore will be considered inaccurate after the release of the Elder Scrolls online. That's because the developers decided to re-write a lot of things. So the history TX mentioned is accurate. It's just that TESO might come up with contradicting history. And then it is up to Bethesda to decide which one will be eliminated.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Agentoringe
Active Member
To further back my side here, Harkon calls vampirism in skyrim a "disease" but not a true bloodline of vampires, and offers you his blood to purify your own, ok...for the sake of argument, lets say Harkons pure blood is the "O positive" of vampire blood, meaning it can mingle and bond with ANY bloodline, even though his direct blood can purge the lycanthropy, with proper culturing or forced mingling, IE: introducing werewolf blood into a human at the same time as a pure blooded vampires blood, who's to say, without any doubt, that the hybridization of the 2 couldn't occur? lol
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