Ulfric Stormcloak conspiracies and Thalmor conspiracies?

[Kathleen Elizabeth]

So.... I am currently writing Ulfric Stormcloak's biography. ( Or trying to! ) annnd about the Thalmor insurgent rumor around him. I understand this, but don't believe it, lol.

Also, about his age when the Great War started: how old was he? I realize he would have been pretty young, and I'm thinking around early/mid 20s. Maybe even 18?? I know he ditches the Greybeards to go fight the Aldmeri Dominion(he is a legionnaire) and he is capture and tortured for information. I also know that he was led to believe that that information was used to sack one of the towers.(the thalmor are sacking the towers to destroy mundus and grant their acencion back to being gods. Look it up, it's crazy!!)

The death of torygg, too: what do you think happened? Evidence? Was Ulfric wrong to do this?(I think so— Torygg was a young King and respected Ulfric.

I believe Ulfric found out the Thalmor's plan to acend to Atherius after they were thrown to Mundus and their God powers were taken from them, and follow Auri-El, and I think Ulfric wants them out of Skyrim to prevent then from shutting down the Snow Throat tower, or getting their nasty little fingers into Nirn's pie and undoing the planet and unleashing something worse than the Oblivion crisis.

There are several books to support this point, and here is a snippet from a nook by Michael Kirkbride, who left Bethesda after Morrowind, but is still active in the Elder scrolls community. (This is from a book in oblivion) :




"To kill Man is to reach Heaven, from where we came before the Doom Drum's iniquity. When we accomplish this, we can escape the mockery and long shame of the Material Prison.

To achieve this goal, we must:

1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.

2) Remove Man not just from the world, but from the Pattern of Possibility, so that the very idea of them can be forgotten and thereby never again repeated.

3) With Talos and the Sons of Talos removed, the Dragon will become ours to unbind. The world of mortals will be over. The Dragon will uncoil his hold on the stagnancy of linear time and move as Free Serpent again, moving through the Aether without measure or burden, spilling time along the innumerable roads we once travelled. And with that we will regain the mantle of the imperishable spirit."


I think Ulfric discovered some of this... And is doing anything to avoid it, as well as rid the Empire from Skyim.(My personal head canon) Two birds with one stone! Anyone have anything to argue or add to??? Anything is welcome! DISCLAIMER: I haven't done all my research as I have et to play Oblivion and the other Elderscrolls. I have played skyrim about 6 times over, going different directions every time, and I love the Elder scrolls, even though some disregard me as a newbie fan... But that's perfectly ok—I understand!

 

[Seanu Reaves]

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

And yes Ulfric was a young legionnaire when he was captured. He isn't a direct thalmor agent. More he is helping them, ironically through his obsession to spite them.
The Torrygg thing can be argued motives but it still usually looks to Ulfric needing the High King spot open for him to take that seat of power.

 

[Kathleen Elizabeth]

Awesome!

 

[Kathleen Elizabeth]

Bump?

 

[imaginepageant]

I've done a lot of thinking about Ulfric's life and history for my fanfic, so hopefully some of the head-canon I've established for myself will help.

First, his age. Ulfric says he trained at High Hrothgar when he was "a boy," and "young." Assuming this world runs along similar qualifications for adulthood that real-life medieval societies did, he probably would have been a few years younger than sixteen. However, we know he spent ten years at High Hrothgar before leaving to join the Imperial Legion, which—again, making assumptions about age rules—he couldn't have done before the age of sixteen. So, he was at least six when he went to High Hrothgar, and at least sixteen when he left. Judging by the fact that Ulfric distinguished himself in battle, yet presumably had little to no training in arms (considering he'd been with the pacifist Greybeards most of his life), I doubt he was as young as sixteen when he began fighting in the war. So, I put him at twenty when the Great War started, and thus fifty during the events of the game.

I also believe Ulfric had to have had at least one older sibling. Rule within Skyrim seems to be hereditary; aside from Ulfric, Torygg became Jarl of Solitude and High King of Skyrim after his father's death, and Idgrod the Younger comments that Morthal will be hers to govern someday. If Ulfric was indeed his father's sole heir, I don't think he would have been allowed to go to High Hrothgar to train to become a Greybeard; he would have remained in Windhelm to someday inherit the throne. But, if he had an older brother or sister, they would have been the heir, leaving Ulfric free to pursue his own path. I imagine this older sibling also joined the Imperial Legion and died in the war.

Concerning Ulfric's motives, there's no real answer for this—and that's one of the reasons I love the character so much! I personally believe that he is being honest whenever he speaks about his motives for challenging Torygg and starting the rebellion against the Empire; that is to say, he truly wants to free Skyrim from the corruption of the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion, and return it to its own governance, laws, and sacred traditions. He may or may not suspect the Dominion's end game, but I think his main concern is Skyrim and her people, not the entirety of mankind. There are pages and pages of evidence for this theory on numerous Stormcloak vs. Imperial threads on the forums, so I won't waste my time outlining it here. I will, however, say that the idea of Ulfric only wanting political power doesn't make sense to me; the facts we do know about his life just don't add up to equal someone whose sole ambition is the throne of Skyrim.

I'd also like to address the issue of Ulfric's racism. Very simply, it's a load of crap. There are, quite obviously, some racist Nords, but there is very little evidence that Ulfric is one of them, the most solid piece being that he doesn't send help to non-Nord settlements who are put upon by bandits. However, look at all the evidence that he isn't racist:

1. Windhelm is one of the most racially diverse major holds in Skyrim, with the highest percentage of Altmer, Dunmer, and Argonian residents; its Nord population makes up for only slightly higher than half of its whole. (I did a study on this here.) If Ulfric were truly a Nord supremacist, I doubt he would allow so many non-Nords to own fine homes and businesses in his city—especially not four Altmer, when Altmer are supposed to be his greatest enemy. It should also be noted that the alchemist Nurelion openly worships the Eight, not the Nine, yet this doesn't seem to be a problem—evidence that Ulfric allows true religious freedom in his city, even to those of a different race who hold different religious views. Does this sound like a intolerant racist to you?

2. Windhelm's Dunmer population is said to live in "squalor," yet their living conditions are similar—or better!—than the poor residents of other holds. They actually have houses! Compare this to Riften's middle class, who live in dark, damp homes on the canal beneath the upper level of the city proper, while it's poor live cramped together in a sewer, with nothing but bed rolls to their names. And in Markarth, the Warrens are the best that the poor can hope for, yet that "best" is nothing more than a disgusting cave littered with the sick and dying. Even the more affluent cities of Whiterun and Solitude have their beggars, who live on the streets. It's worth nothing that Noster Eagle-Eye (Solitude's beggar) and Snilf (one of Riften's beggars) are Nords—meaning the Dunmer of Windhelm have better living conditions than some Nords in other holds. Yes, their homes seem to be in disrepair, but it should not be the Jarl's responsibility to provide home renovations free of charge, especially not in a time of war. Even in disrepair, these homes at least offer four walls, a roof, a bed, a hearth—arguably clean and comfortable shelter. Jarl Igmund is never looked down upon for not providing better living conditions than the Warrens to Markarth's poor, so why is Ulfric condemned for less?

3. These Dunmer are also said to be "confined" to the Grey Quarter. The Grey Quarter first became populated with Dunmer after the eruption of the Red Mountain drove them out of Morrowind; obviously, segregating them in the Grey Quarter was not Ulfric's doing, as he wouldn't even be born for another hundred and fifty years! Furthermore, Dunmer wander the city freely, so they aren't exactly "confined" to their quarter. Aval Atheron even runs a stand in the city's open market, a business he says he's proud of. That doesn't sound like segregation to me.

4. You hear a lot of talk about Ulfric's racist, intolerant treatment of anyone who isn't a Nord... and yet, not once do you hear anything of the sort from Ulfric's lips. He does not say one single disparaging remark about the Dunmer or Argonians he supposedly oppresses, nor about most other races; while he will talk ill of Altmer, he only does so in the context of his battle against the Aldmeri Dominion and their treatment of men. His dialogue to you is the same regardless of what race you play. Yes, the player must have access to all quests, so you have to be allowed to join the Stormcloaks no matter what your race, but that doesn't mean Ulfric couldn't show some prejudice against you if you are a Dunmer, or an Altmer, or an Imperial. Yet he doesn't. Galmar Stone-Fist will question your motives if you aren't a Nord, but even then he isn't showing racism, merely confusion over why someone not of Skyrim wishes to defend Skyrim, which is not at all unreasonable. That dialogue could have been Ulfric's, to at least suggest some of this Nord supremacy he's accused of. But the evidence for Ulfric being racist is only conjecture and heresay; none of it is derived from what you actually witness of Ulfric's actions and words. So how much of it can really be true?

All right, I ended up talking a lot more about this than I originally intended to, so I'm going to stop now!