Thrall Thread : Living with the dead

[iMACobra]

Did you anchor Lokil? I think if you anchor him and respawns, he'll actually level up more with you if you leveled up yourself. Bandit Chiefs will eventually respawn if you leave them unattended for a long time. Adam has experience with respawning thralls. Illia levels up with you all the way to 40, the Dead Thrall level cap. She eventually learns Frost Cloak and Icy Storm. If you want Blades Armor on her as a thrall, make her join the Blades and then thrall her. She's also a good sacrifice for Boethiah (w/ Blades Armor on) because of her follower bug.

 

[iMACobra]

Velehk Sain's corpse had been disappearing in my last few playthroughs recently. I didn't know why. It's almost fact here that his corpse is known to be permanent no matter how much he sucks. I leave him in nonrespawning interiors and he still disappears.

It was then that I came across this statement in his Bugs section on uesp: "Velehk's corpse will not clean up properly because Forgotten Names is never shut down after his death." This means that if the quest to find his treasure were ever to finish, his corpse WOULD disappear. Of course you don't see this if you do go after his treasure because he disappears in a purple flash, sometime after he gives you his map, and he needs to be alive to give it to you anyway.

Well, I used the known exploit to get him to stay and get his treasure all the same. I did this for the last few playthroughs. He subsequently disappeared in all of them where I kept him AND his treasure. What I believe is that Velehk Sain is no longer permanent after you get his treasure because then, the quest concludes. The quote states that the quest doesn't end after his death so his permanency is probably because the quest is in limbo.

In other words, don't try to keep him AND his treasure or else he'll no longer be permanent and you'll need to anchor him.

 

[Irishman]

Did you anchor Lokil? I think if you anchor him and respawns, he'll actually level up more with you if you leveled up yourself.

Lokil is one of those thralls that keep their initial encountered level, no matter what your characters level is. Its really interesting (and annoying) that some thralls will level up with you (like a follower) and some will be a constant level.

Also Im pretty sure when you see the term 'Radiant' on UESP, referring to levels, it means that they can spawn at any level between those numbers (in increments of the class they are). As your level increases, the chance of the radiantly-leveled enemy level will increase. Thats why its possible to come across Lokil at Lv14 when your character is Lv80 or when your level is 60, there is a small chance Lokil will be Lv65.

This is how I interpret it, if anyone has a better idea of how it works, I would be very interested in learning it.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Yes , that is the trade off you have when you are using Dead Thrall at early levels.
Scaling NPC are at your level(or a multiple like 1.2x) which is a good thing for those who scale over 40
BUT the leveled lists of Radiant NPC will generate a higher percentage of weaker type foes for you to face and there is a lower chance that you will get the most powerful one.

A primary example I have experienced comparing Sonja(31) with Adam(80+) are the Radiant Briarhearts where Sonja can thrall all such encountered but Adam`s Briarhearts are all too powerful to thrall.
However , Radiant Sild the Warlock is less than lvl 20 for Sonja but at the level 40 cap for Adam(a late comer to Dead Thrall).

At the Shrine of Mehrunes Dagon , Sonja always gets 2 Dremora Kynreeve that spawn outside but Adam always gets 2 unthrallable Valkynaz instead.

 

[iMACobra]

I know that Lokil stays at the level you met him at initially. I said that maybe when he respawns he'll actually become a higher tiered master vampire (lv 14 to 42 for example) if you are higher leveled by the time he respawns. Adam's response explains that radiantly leveled Npcs will be higher leveled the higher your level is. Also, not all Npcs conspire to the rules of the higher your level is the stronger they are. I've already presented that some Npcs were substantially weaker than me even at lv 81 such as Anise (lv12), Arondil (lv7), Haldyn (lv 7), Lokil (lv14), Sarthis Idren (lv12), etc. Although, they still have a higher chance of being higher leveled the higher my level is like Irishman said but this was not the case.

 

[JayW]

I've been perk building my Necromage Vampire Werewolf. I recommend it to anyone building a new character. You get pretty much all the bonuses of both builds for very few costs (I miss the Illusion boost and human vampire powers but I can live without). There is even some dialogue that seems to generate if when you combine both powers as Valerica calls you mixed blood. I play werewolf by day for faster travel and Vampire by night.

When returning to human form from werewolf I get my normal character and when coming back from Vampire Lord I get my Vampire (with necromage intact). It is important to take any perks that benefit from Necromage in Vampire form to get the perma Necromage boost. It can be tricky remembering but it's worth it since the Necromage bonuses do transfer over to Werewolf form (e.g. boosted magic resistance + poison resistance both of which make endgame werewolves more better scaled).

One thing I did get recently was a second set of Cultists chasing after me. I thought they were randomly generated only once but they chased me down in the woods. I don't know if it's because I hand't travelled to solstheim yet but the second set and the first set are both permanent without anchors. I am storing the spare set of perma bodies in Castle Volkihar. I've been using the bodies as mobile containers that I can take to any location that I want to set up as a home. They do not regenerate armour when fast travelling so I figure their inventories are safe. Some Arrows I planted on them have been safe for a long time.

I aimed for a level 45 build before travelling to solstheim in large part because I hate missing out on top tier levelled items like the Nightingale Gear etc.etc. With some tweaking it would work just as well as a 42 build in order to gather level 42 (x1.2) vampires (post necromage) like Vyrthur and Lokil. I really wish that a little more effort had been put into creating some new high level and permanent thralls for Dragonborn the DLC. I like my Master Cultists but they're about the only useful or interesting ones I can think of that become unusable once you pass a certain level or who have no enchantable gear to allow boosting. I am yet to see what the master cultists are like in battle together. I am worried that they might aggravate each other with all that chain lightning. Hopefully the companions insight (?) can prevent infighting. If not I'll have to go with the summoner Master cultist and pair him with Orchendor (100% magic resistance should prevent any harm triggering aggro).

I'm sure others thought of this first but it dawned on me that with fortify restoration I can boost the bonuses from the Diadem of the Savant and reduce all magic schools to zero cost on one item. With a ring glitch and the Ill met by Moonlight exploit (still working for me using Ring of Namira - even though I don't want cannibalism) I might also be able to manage to perma glitch Ahzidal's rings or maybe some Werewolf rings. Will report back when I get there.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Companion`s Insight has no effect on in-fighting.
The only thing it does is prevent DAMAGE from your own destruction spells , weapons , and shouts to LIVING Followers that are under your direct control.
Nothing else is changed(including aggro) as far as I can tell.

While it is perfectly possible to use an uber-Resto potion to get the Diadem to give zero cost(resto@1900-2000%? idk) , it may be more trouble than it`s worth.
First , the Diadem will reset to original strength whenever it is unequipped so at the least you`ll have to drink another potion after every werewolf transformation
Second , while 5 cost reductions from one item is attractive you could just as well dedicate a single necklace or ring enchant slot to add thousands of more Magicka points if you`re going to exploit anyway

At one point , I had Ignite/Freeze perma without wearing Ahzidal`s ring.
I was wearing Arcana ring when Eola gave me the Ring of Namira.
The effect was later removed by the Restoration Ritual quest.
I have however discovered that all followers with 25+ destruction skill can "learn" these spells by wearing the ring.
Give follower Arcana ring to equip, then give them a better ring so they unequip Arcana ring on their own , now remove Arcana ring.
Sonja`s followers Serana , illia , Jenassa, Marcurio , Belrand , Valdimar , Eola , and Aranea are all casting Ignite and Freeze without the ring

 

[JayW]

The Diadem trick might be more workable on a Khajit. I went through some people's lists of their favourite exploits and there was one where you could wear more than the single or even double helm (Jagged Crown / Penitus Oculatus Helmet / Falmer Helmet + circlet or dragon priest mask for anyone unaware). Essentially you can glitch the Ancient Shrouded Hood from the Dark Bortherhood quest and stack helmets. It didn't look like too much work on a video I saw so I might give it a spin.

It's a damn shame about Companions Insight not working on thralls wielding Chain lightning. I was looking forward to having my own dragon cult followers following me around. Are there any other 100% magic resistant followers like Orchendor. I would enchant armour for some other thralls but I imagine the same caps apply to thralls as apply to you (80%?). One chain lightning' and the other brushes it off because no harm is done (in theory - I haven't tried it out yet).

There are only so many enchantments you would ever need or want on a character. I imagine I could build a character with every enchantment I have ever used. On the plus side it makes me appreciate the unique armour more. I'm actually looking forward to getting Konahrik. I can't decide whether to take on Miraak first or second. I plan on picking up the Fire Worm dragon breath perk from the black books and adding Paarthurnax's boost before I go fry any draugr so I've been holding off on the masks.

Werewolf form is my favourite form of fast travel. When they get around to a sequel I hope they keep Werewolves pretty much as they are.

Do you know whether more and more perma cultists would come after me in Skyrim if I never actually travelled to Solstheim. I was very surprised to have two sets of perma cultists. Essentially the Dragonborn Quest seems to have made a random encounter brigade of cultists turn permanent (indoors / outdoors / wherever).

One last point re Anchors. Do they work on Ritual Stone thralls as well as they do on named characters? I was hoping to start a collection of unusual creatures from random encounters (werewolves, gargoyles, werebears, the spectral dragon priest, a named giant / hagraven (if possible, ). With some trial and error you can get ritual stone followers to fast travel with you. I could essentially invade Solstheim (this is an overkill build I'm working on after all).

 

[Adam Warlock]

A properly anchored named non-respawning NPC will remain perma even if their level is too high for Dead Thrall or they resist reanimation.

I wouldn`t be at all surprised if named hagravens could be anchored since they don`t respawn

Torkild may be the only werebear eligible if he`s killed while in beast form and you leave his letter in his inventory

There is the permanent corpse of a Giant at Karthspire Camp .
All the living giants respawn as far as i know

The skeletons of named dragons can be anchored but not reanimated.

NPC raised by the Ritual Stone can fast-travel but only to locations which they could have normally traveled to within their animated time limit
Undead will travel further if you have the Necromage perk

 

[iMACobra]

At one point , I had Ignite/Freeze perma without wearing Ahzidal`s ring.
I was wearing Arcana ring when Eola gave me the Ring of Namira.
The effect was later removed by the Restoration Ritual quest.
I have however discovered that all followers with 25+ destruction skill can "learn" these spells by wearing the ring.
Give follower Arcana ring to equip, then give them a better ring so they unequip Arcana ring on their own , now remove Arcana ring.
Sonja`s followers Serana , illia , Jenassa, Marcurio , Belrand , Valdimar , Eola , and Aranea are all casting Ignite and Freeze without the ring

WHAT THE HECK?!?! I didn't know that followers could use Ignite and Freeze from that ring let alone permanently learn the spells for yourself and your followers after unequipping it.... I learn something new everyday....

The Diadem trick might be more workable on a Khajit. I went through some people's lists of their favourite exploits and there was one where you could wear more than the single or even double helm (Jagged Crown / Penitus Oculatus Helmet / Falmer Helmet + circlet or dragon priest mask for anyone unaware). Essentially you can glitch the Ancient Shrouded Hood from the Dark Bortherhood quest and stack helmets. It didn't look like too much work on a video I saw so I might give it a spin.

I assume you're talking about the 3 Helm+2 Ring Stacking Glitch by HighVolumeGuides on YouTube? The Ancient Shrouded Cowl also glitches on Argonians and Dunmer but for some reason I cannot get the 2 rings to stack even with a Khajiit.

It's a damn shame about Companions Insight not working on thralls wielding Chain lightning. I was looking forward to having my own dragon cult followers following me around. Are there any other 100% magic resistant followers like Orchendor. I would enchant armour for some other thralls but I imagine the same caps apply to thralls as apply to you (80%?). One chain lightning' and the other brushes it off because no harm is done (in theory - I haven't tried it out yet).

NPCs do not conspire to the same 85% Magic and Elemental Resist cap so you can have a thrall with 2 100% elemental resists since at most 2 will fit on the feet. Magic resist is only applied to necklaces, rings and shields, not boots/shoes. Since most NPCs don't have an equipped unenchanted ring and necklace as their default, and mages don't use shields very well, your thralls can have at most 2 perfect elemental resists. For your Master Cultists I would apply resists based on their race. For Nord Cultists, apply Fire & Shock Resist and Dunmer Cultists, Frost & Shock Resist.

I plan on picking up the Fire Worm dragon breath perk from the black books and adding Paarthurnax's boost before I go fry any draugr so I've been holding off on the masks.

By the way you imply this quote, Draugr are, in fact, NOT weak to Fire. They do have a 50% Resist to Frost but no weakness to Fire whatsoever. The "undead are weak to fire" thought only applies to vampires. I also checked with Console Commands that Draugr have a 0% Fire Resist. They would have a negative percentage if they WERE weak to Fire.

Do you know whether more and more perma cultists would come after me in Skyrim if I never actually travelled to Solstheim. I was very surprised to have two sets of perma cultists. Essentially the Dragonborn Quest seems to have made a random encounter brigade of cultists turn permanent (indoors / outdoors / wherever).

More Cultists will still go after you if you don't go to Solstheim to continue the Dragonborn Questline.

One last point re Anchors. Do they work on Ritual Stone thralls as well as they do on named characters? I was hoping to start a collection of unusual creatures from random encounters (werewolves, gargoyles, werebears, the spectral dragon priest, a named giant / hagraven (if possible, ). With some trial and error you can get ritual stone followers to fast travel with you. I could essentially invade Solstheim (this is an overkill build I'm working on after all).

If you literally mean Random Encounter location creatures, those can't be anchored. I think all the Sabre Cats can be anchored because they have no respawn flags on them, I know Old Orc's are perfectly permanent. And what is this way to travl with Ritual Stoned thralls tht you found thru Trial and Error?

 

[Adam Warlock]

Increasing Magic/Elemental Resistance on thralls may help some but doesn`t totally eliminate in-fighting either.
While resistance does decrease magic damage , each attack that hits is registered somehow and repeated hits will cause aggro
I have witnessed Marcurio start a fight with Orchendor in this way

Bottom line is that minions primarily relying on fireballs/ice storm/chain lightning do not play well with others and even the targeted attacks may cause in-fights if they hit the wrong person because they are in the direct line of fire

 

[JayW]

At one point , I had Ignite/Freeze perma without wearing Ahzidal`s ring.
I was wearing Arcana ring when Eola gave me the Ring of Namira.
The effect was later removed by the Restoration Ritual quest.
I have however discovered that all followers with 25+ destruction skill can "learn" these spells by wearing the ring.
Give follower Arcana ring to equip, then give them a better ring so they unequip Arcana ring on their own , now remove Arcana ring.
Sonja`s followers Serana , illia , Jenassa, Marcurio , Belrand , Valdimar , Eola , and Aranea are all casting Ignite and Freeze without the ring

WHAT THE HECK?!?! I didn't know that followers could use Ignite and Freeze from that ring let alone permanently learn the spells for yourself and your followers after unequipping it.... I learn something new everyday....

Surprise to me too.

The Diadem trick might be more workable on a Khajit. I went through some people's lists of their favourite exploits and there was one where you could wear more than the single or even double helm (Jagged Crown / Penitus Oculatus Helmet / Falmer Helmet + circlet or dragon priest mask for anyone unaware). Essentially you can glitch the Ancient Shrouded Hood from the Dark Bortherhood quest and stack helmets. It didn't look like too much work on a video I saw so I might give it a spin.

I assume you're talking about the 3 Helm+2 Ring Stacking Glitch by HighVolumeGuides on YouTube? The Ancient Shrouded Cowl also glitches on Argonians and Dunmer but for some reason I cannot get the 2 rings to stack even with a Khajiit.

Found the video after reading about it but that's the one. The guy on the video manages with two rings. With the Ill Met by Moonlight glitch working for me (favouriting the ring, taking off and putting on again until it syncs with the Cursed Ring of Hircine equipping, reloading autosave if it doesn't work) then I'm hoping that I can get 2 boosted rings to stay on my character.

It's a damn shame about Companions Insight not working on thralls wielding Chain lightning. I was looking forward to having my own dragon cult followers following me around. Are there any other 100% magic resistant followers like Orchendor. I would enchant armour for some other thralls but I imagine the same caps apply to thralls as apply to you (80%?). One chain lightning' and the other brushes it off because no harm is done (in theory - I haven't tried it out yet).

]NPCs do not conspire to the same 85% Magic and Elemental Resist cap so you can have a thrall with 2 100% elemental resists since at most 2 will fit on the feet. Magic resist is only applied to necklaces, rings and shields, not boots/shoes. Since most NPCs don't have an equipped unenchanted ring and necklace as their default, and mages don't use shields very well, your thralls can have at most 2 perfect elemental resists. For your Master Cultists I would apply resists based on their race. For Nord Cultists, apply Fire & Shock Resist and Dunmer Cultists, Frost & Shock Resist.

My only real concern is that they end up turning on each other when my two Master Cultists start checking chain lighting at each other. It's not really such a bug issue to rethrall them. I only use Resto Loop enchants on weak but interesting thralls (like Valekh Sain) or thralls that I can't affor to let die because they pass the level 40 thrall cap. I got to level 70 something with Vythur before I got bored of him once using exploit enchants.

I plan on picking up the Fire Worm dragon breath perk from the black books and adding Paarthurnax's boost before I go fry any draugr so I've been holding off on the masks.

By the way you imply this quote, Draugr are, in fact, NOT weak to Fire. They do have a 50% Resist to Frost but no weakness to Fire whatsoever. The "undead are weak to fire" thought only applies to vampires. I also checked with Console Commands that Draugr have a 0% Fire Resist. They would have a negative percentage if they WERE weak to Fire.

I like fireworms and I figure Dragons / Dragoborn should have a natural affinity with flames. I think you can get past 200 damage with the shout, Paarthurnax and the Dragon Priest Mask from Solstheim while Resto loop potions can let you breathe fire at will. Sometimes dungeons stick to low level draugr and then the fireworms work really well (8+ from a single breath). Didn't mean to imply anything though.

Do you know whether more and more perma cultists would come after me in Skyrim if I never actually travelled to Solstheim. I was very surprised to have two sets of perma cultists. Essentially the Dragonborn Quest seems to have made a random encounter brigade of cultists turn permanent (indoors / outdoors / wherever).

More Cultists will still go after you if you don't go to Solstheim to continue the Dragonborn Questline.

Are they all Permanent though? Two out of three from a random encounter with Cultists became permanent because the Dragonborn Mission glitched and recognised the random encounter cultists as the ones carrying the cultist message. The originals (my Master Cultists) and the random encounter ones are now both permanent.

One last point re Anchors. Do they work on Ritual Stone thralls as well as they do on named characters? I was hoping to start a collection of unusual creatures from random encounters (werewolves, gargoyles, werebears, the spectral dragon priest, a named giant / hagraven (if possible, ). With some trial and error you can get ritual stone followers to fast travel with you. I could essentially invade Solstheim (this is an overkill build I'm working on after all).

If you literally mean Random Encounter location creatures, those can't be anchored. I think all the Sabre Cats can be anchored because they have no respawn flags on them, I know Old Orc's are perfectly permanent. And what is this way to travl with Ritual Stoned thralls tht you found thru Trial and Error?

Autosave before fast travel, fast travel and see whether they've com with you. If they haven't reload the autosave from before fast travelling. Occasionally one or more (not all) ritual stone thralls can arrive with you. It's unreliable but it has worked for me before.

In a future playthrough I might try collecting named creatures and see if they can be anchored (like the Hagraven you almost marry, the Giant with your club, the named werewolves and were bears from missions…). Named draugr and NPC's who level beyond Dead Thrall but who could join a ritual stone army might be options. I could sit back and watch them take on Karstag.[/quote][/quote]

 

[Daelon DuLac]

I figured this was the perfect thread to ask this in.

My Blackthorne now has the Ritual Stone on her Aetherial Crown and is headed for Dawnguard to join the Volkahir.

Understand that I haven't really used raising the dead very much as an actual defensive move, more as a way to up conjuration. By the time they actually get up, my enemies are usually already on top of me and the "zombie", "thrall", "revenant" or whatever is useless and gets in the way.

I am wondering what circumstances is the use of the Ritual Stone particularly useful and does it take as long for all those dead to rise?

Me, I'd prefer it if they popped up like jack-in-the-boxes and started fighting immediatly, but we can't have everything, now can we.

 

[iMACobra]

I figured this was the perfect thread to ask this in.

My Blackthorne now has the Ritual Stone on her Aetherial Crown and is headed for Dawnguard to join the Volkahir.

Understand that I haven't really used raising the dead very much as an actual defensive move, more as a way to up conjuration. By the time they actually get up, my enemies are usually already on top of me and the "zombie", "thrall", "revenant" or whatever is useless and gets in the way.

I am wondering what circumstances is the use of the Ritual Stone particularly useful and does it take as long for all those dead to rise?

Me, I'd prefer it if they popped up like jack-in-the-boxes and started fighting immediatly, but we can't have everything, now can we.

I think it would be particularly useful when you go to the Forgotten Vale and fight all those annoying Falmer and their pets so you can raise them. IMO, the Ritual Stone is just a gimmick to me. It's just extremely annoying to keep raising bodies only to know that you won't keep them forever since they can't fast travel far with you. By gimmicky I mean it's just something fun to do, not really worth it for a long term playthrough. Also, the time limit is only 3 minutes for non-undead and with the Ritual Stone, it's not like you're really going to watch ALL of your undead army so that when one falls down you can raise it again and then right after another one falls down, raise it again, which would be pretty annoying.

It does take that long for all the dead to rise. Also, all bodies around might not raise so you'll have to do it again, ruining the time between each raised thrall.

This is all my personal opinion about the Ritual Stone. I just like to focus on 2 Dead Thralls by working on their clothes and weapons to make them much stronger which gives me more of a personal attachment to them and not to mention, they're much easier to maintain than a whole crowded army.

 

[iMACobra]

Autosave before fast travel, fast travel and see whether they've come with you. If they haven't, reload the autosave from before fast traveling. Occasionally one or more (not all) ritual stone thralls can arrive with you. It's unreliable but it has worked for me before.

This does not work if you travel too far beyond the Ritual Stone time limit of getting to your destination on foot. This particularly won't work when traveling to Solstheim (by boat) and back.

 

[Adam Warlock]

I figured this was the perfect thread to ask this in.

My Blackthorne now has the Ritual Stone on her Aetherial Crown and is headed for Dawnguard to join the Volkahir.

Understand that I haven't really used raising the dead very much as an actual defensive move, more as a way to up conjuration. By the time they actually get up, my enemies are usually already on top of me and the "zombie", "thrall", "revenant" or whatever is useless and gets in the way.

I am wondering what circumstances is the use of the Ritual Stone particularly useful and does it take as long for all those dead to rise?

Me, I'd prefer it if they popped up like jack-in-the-boxes and started fighting immediatly, but we can't have everything, now can we.

You know those big rooms in Draugr dens where some of them are sleeping but others are just dead ?
Hordes of dead Rieklings are also fun.
Saering`s Watch on Solstheim- kill the Draugr and then raise them to help you fight the dragon
The random encounters where the bandits have killed the soldiers or the vampires have killed the Dawnguard - raise the victims to exact their revenge

Ritual Stone is indeed situational but there`s plenty of opportunities for using it if you look.
Ever seen a duel between giants ?

 

[Daelon DuLac]

I figured this was the perfect thread to ask this in.

My Blackthorne now has the Ritual Stone on her Aetherial Crown and is headed for Dawnguard to join the Volkahir.

Understand that I haven't really used raising the dead very much as an actual defensive move, more as a way to up conjuration. By the time they actually get up, my enemies are usually already on top of me and the "zombie", "thrall", "revenant" or whatever is useless and gets in the way.

I am wondering what circumstances is the use of the Ritual Stone particularly useful and does it take as long for all those dead to rise?

Me, I'd prefer it if they popped up like jack-in-the-boxes and started fighting immediatly, but we can't have everything, now can we.

I think it would be particularly useful when you go to the Forgotten Vale and fight all those annoying Falmer and their pets so you can raise them. IMO, the Ritual Stone is just a gimmick to me. It's just extremely annoying to keep raising bodies only to know that you won't keep them forever since they can't fast travel far with you. By gimmicky I mean it's just something fun to do, not really worth it for a long term playthrough. Also, the time limit is only 3 minutes for non-undead and with the Ritual Stone, it's not like you're really going to watch ALL of your undead army so that when one falls down you can raise it again and then right after another one falls down, raise it again, which would be pretty annoying.

It does take that long for all the dead to rise. Also, all bodies around might not raise so you'll have to do it again, ruining the time between each raised thrall.

This is all my personal opinion about the Ritual Stone. I just like to focus on 2 Dead Thralls by working on their clothes and weapons to make them much stronger which gives me more of a personal attachment to them and not to mention, they're much easier to maintain than a whole crowded army.

Since the last thing I want is permanent dead "thralls" (all that moaning would give me a headache) I can at least have fun with them. I'm not in to followers or companions of any kind, particularly not on Blackthorne's build. And she'll be a vamp anyhow. I was just wondering. Thanks for the info. I wish I could think of another use the the crown, but I just can't.

 

[iMACobra]

Ever seen a duel between giants ?

Can't you just Fury Giants all the same? They'll even attack their own Mammoths.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

Ever seen a duel between giants ?

Can't you just Fury Giants all the same? They'll even attack their own Mammoths.

Hee... Hee... Funny my fury doesn't seem to work on them, although, for some reason it does work on bears. That's fun. I like to sic 'em on Riften guards.

 

[iMACobra]

Hee... Hee... Funny my fury doesn't seem to work on them, although, for some reason it does work on bears. That's fun. I like to sic 'em on Riften guards.

Since Giants are level 30, a dual-casted Fury with the Animage perk will do. Although, it'd be much easier to hit 'em with a Frenzy (w/perks) because of the stronger level and AoE. Check the level caps of the Illusion spells on UESP. Levels are further increased for undead by Necromage.