The "I hate The Catholic Church" Thread

[feliciano182]

*Cracks knuckles*

Sorry if my style bothers you, but I feel tackling point by point helps me a bit.

so basically you meant rich and powerful people can't hold their own beliefs? it's their money so they have a right to do whatever they want with their money. if someone does a crime then punish him instead of bashing to the entire their religion.

They are entitled to have their own beliefs as much as children are entitled to the best education they can get, as women are entitled to have control over their bodies and as victims of sexual abuse are entitled to justice; so while legality may be on their side, morality is not, your liberties end where the others' begin.

Second, you can do whatever you want with your money, this does not expunge you from the responsibility of your actions, if you actively prohibit women from having control of their sexuality, which could possibly help many african nations inmensely considering the amount of missionaires there, you could reduce not just the problem of AIDS, but even poverty as well.

Third, cause and effect, you can rationalize it all you want, but people's actions have consequences, and it's been argued before that religion can very well have an effect on violent behaviors, as we've seen with countless wars, honor killings, witch burnings, crusades, and even more; wether you choose to ignore it or not it's your problem.

so I don't agree with you. I think you just hate them that's your problem. you hate them because they don't like homosexuals. and you want them to admit homosexuality is fine. so basically you want to change their belief. you can't change how other people think. all you can do avoid them and change how you think.

Lot of "strawman" in here
I simply roll my eyes at mostly........everything the church does, I would hardly call that hate.
As to homosexuals, it's a simple matter, if you believe that homosexuals (in the year 2013, in the Age Of Information) should not be allowed to marry and adopt children, then you are an immoral human being, and deserve to be reproached for it.
If at the same time, you use your influence to support institutions with said belief........then well, you might as well be shaping the stairs to hell yourself.

if they don't like homosexuals fine then homosexuals shouldn't hang out with them , if they don't like women then women shouldn't hang out with them (I am a Buddhist and a girl so I don't hang out religions that discriminate women, I meant if a religion discriminates you why the heck are you still doing in that religion? just drop it and find something else.

Personal responsibility applies to both sides of the equation, we don't blame abused women who are beaten by their husbands, we acknowledge the guilt of the abuser and also the responsibility of the abused; I agree fully that catholics should dump their religion as soon as humanly possible, that does not mean that the catholic church is innocent of what it has done and is still doing.

you can drop it but changing is something else, you don't have a right to change something else because it is against your belief.) if they don't like science then science shouldn't be brought upon them and students should not be sent them to teach whatever religious gibberish. if they protect sex offenders then punish those who protect sex offenders, and if they are responsible for proliferation AIDS in Africa then ban them going in Africa.

Science is being brought upon the church ?

I didn't realize politicians, supported by the catholic church, making laws for mandatory courses with the topic of creationism was the way of scientists to sneak upon religious institutions, sneaky basterds in their lab coats !

Punish those who protect offenders ? Why, I actually agree.

Now, BAN them going in Africa ? I'm sure you don't mean to contradict yourself.

 

[Irish]

None of the sort, I'm not arguing for the catholic religion to be expunged from society, nor am I arguing for governments to take action and dismantle the catholic church, I am arguing for a future pope, to one day go up St. Peter's balcony, and say:

This...is over.

If that is somehow being an extremist (which it isn't), then I'd rather be in that position than to actively brush away all the sins (none of them menial) that the church has committed, and which you seem rather keen on ignoring.

No, I'm not keen on ignoring anything. Any crimes committed by the Catholic Church (and any other church for that matter) or its members needs to be dealt with immediately and to the fullest extent of the law. Don't misconstrue my acceptance of others having different beliefs than I for turning a blind eye and apathy from wrongdoing - that's far from the truth.

Could the Church use reform in how it handles corruption and crime? Damn right. Should they change their beliefs because others find it offensive or disagree? Not at all.

 

[Adolf Stormcloak]

I agree with you, but I'm not going to say they're necessarily "evil" for believing what they do. To each his/her own as long as it doesn't violate the "separation of church and state" clause in the Constitution, in my opinion.

What about human rights?

 

[SkyOracle]

*Cracks knuckles*

Sorry if my style bothers you, but I feel tackling point by point helps me a bit.


They are entitled to have their own beliefs as much as children are entitled to the best education they can get, as women are entitled to have control over their bodies and as victims of sexual abuse are entitled to justice; so while legality may be on their side, morality is not, your liberties end where the others' begin.

morality makes the some of laws so we can say the foundation of the legality is the morality so your comment doesn't make any sense. nowadays children are allowed for best education because people think in a different way than they used to think so their morality is increased thus they made it as a law to prevent bad who stop children when they pursue education. when the morality can not stop something legality steps up to resolve it. and people made the laws for protect the morality so basically law is for protecting the morality and also the peace of the society.

Second, you can do whatever you want with your money, this does not expunge you from the responsibility of your actions, if you actively prohibit women from having control of their sexuality, which could possibly help many african nations immensely considering the amount of missionaries there, you could reduce not just the problem of AIDS, but even poverty as well.

missionaries can't force people do this or that. only governments can do that.

Third, cause and effect, you can rationalize it all you want, but people's actions have consequences, and it's been argued before that religion can very well have an effect on violent behaviors, as we've seen with countless wars, honor killings, witch burnings, crusades, and even more; wether you choose to ignore it or not it's your problem.

It's in the past now religion doesn't influence the government like it used to be. now state and the religion are two separate things except in Middle eastern countries where the Sharia dictates but it's also fine because UN is more powerful to push them to follow their agenda. but other than in the rest of the world now religion doesn't control the state so there won't be any religious wars if there will be anything, it will be about a political issue. so you again doesn't make any sense. you bring out outdated things to prove you are right.

Lot of "strawman" in here
I simply roll my eyes at mostly........everything the church does, I would hardly call that hate.
As to homosexuals, it's a simple matter, if you believe that homosexuals (in the year 2013, in the Age Of Information) should not be allowed to marry and adopt children, then you are an immoral human being, and deserve to be reproached for it.
If at the same time, you use your influence to support institutions with said belief........then well, you might as well be shaping the stairs to hell yourself.

morality is a relative word. what is immoral to you might not be immoral to me.mostly the morality is defined a religion or a philosophy ,as a Buddhism I have no problem with homosexuals. but even if I am against it I won't be an immoral human being because Buddhism says you become an immoral when you do bad karma not when you are against homosexuals. now that's the viewpoint of a Buddhist. when it goes to Islam homosexuality is totally wrong so against it doesn't make Muslims immoral human beings. so you again doesn't make any sense. you only think in a limited space. you don't think beyond that that's ur problem.

Personal responsibility applies to both sides of the equation, we don't blame abused women who are beaten by their husbands, we acknowledge the guilt of the abuser and also the responsibility of the abused; I agree fully that catholics should dump their religion as soon as humanly possible, that does not mean that the catholic church is innocent of what it has done and is still doing.

religion itself doesn't take actions. people take actions. religion is just a bunch of books and texts. when people actively ignore a religion that has a belief that can make harm to people then there won't be any issue because there won't be anyone to take actions. catholic church is promoted by people so indirectly it's people who oppose to homosexuals and women.people promote the church and people support church to do that.

I didn't realize politicians, supported by the catholic church, making laws for mandatory courses with the topic of creationism was the way of scientists to sneak upon religious institutions, sneaky basterds in their lab coats !

if you don't like creationism then refuse it.I have never learned anything about creationism in my school.
so it's an utter lie. probably it's true in Islamic Countries but not ins secular countries.

Punish those who protect offenders ? Why, I actually agree.

yes because support to an action which is labeled as a crime by the law is also a crime. so those who supported to that action should also be punished.

Now, BAN them going in Africa ? I'm sure you don't mean to contradict yourself.

because it's not a belief it's an action. I am talking about belief. a person can believe pedophilia is right but it doesn't mean he is allowed to molest children as he wants. people can believe what they want and that right should be protected regardless of what they think.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

Fun fact. There are plenty of Catholic societies where sick children could've gotten better with medicine. Because of Christianity, they didn't. This faith is literally the only reason children have died from preventable disease.

 

[Irish]

Fun fact. There are plenty of Catholic societies where sick children could've gotten better with medicine. Because of Christianity, they didn't. This faith is literally the only reason children have died from preventable disease.

Sadly, yes. Oh, and people who refuse to vaccinate their children don't help.

 

[feliciano182]

No, I'm not keen on ignoring anything. Any crimes committed by the Catholic Church (and any other church for that matter) or its members needs to be dealt with immediately and to the fullest extent of the law. Don't misconstrue my acceptance of others having different beliefs than I for turning a blind eye and apathy from wrongdoing - that's far from the truth.

Could the Church use reform in how it handles corruption and crime? Damn right. Should they change their beliefs because others find it offensive or disagree? Not at all.

Acknowledged then.

And this probably is a point where our discussion could stop since we're entering more "personal" ground, I believe they should deffinitely change their beliefs (on their own), it's what all normal human beings do when discovering new truths about themselves, most specially since they support people whose actions end up in the misery of others, they have a responsibility, and they have to pay for it.

EDIT:

Sadly, yes. Oh, and people who refuse to vaccinate their children don't help.

And why ? Oh why do people refuse to vaccinate their children ?

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

Sadly that does seem to be the Catholic Charch's greatest weakness. They seem so sure that they've found the absolute truth that their development has stagnated. They're not even willing to address the plot hole in the creation section of the bible where God seems to create a part of the world twice! If they were only open to discovering new truths about their world, they'd realize that lies and deception are a disservice to the Lord.

 

[Irish]

feliciano182 People are afraid that their child(ren) will be that 1/1000 or very rare case that has a serious or life-threatening reaction. I know one woman who never vaccinated her children because she thinks it's putting "unnecessary, cancer-causing toxins" in their bodies. She never bothers to think that if there were no vaccines, it'd be like we're living in the game, Oregon Trail, where one member of the household has dysentery and at least two others die of cholera. No thanks.

Ha! I have a friend on Facebook who swears immunizations are the government's way of controlling us all. Don't worry, I sent him a shiny new tinfoil hat.

 

[feliciano182]

feliciano182 People are afraid that their child(ren) will be that 1/1000 or very rare case that has a serious or life-threatening reaction. I know one woman who never vaccinated her children because she thinks it's putting "unnecessary, cancer-causing toxins" in their bodies. She never bothers to think that if there were no vaccines, it'd be like we're living in the game, Oregon Trail, where one member of the household has dysentery and at least two others die of cholera. No thanks.

Cleverly avoiding the point I was trying to make !

A lot of those of people are very ignorant on what vaccines actually do, many times because they heard their pastor, minister, priest, etc. telling them it was dangerous when nothing could be further from the truth, 1/1000 are actually excellent odds.

 

[Irish]

Cleverly avoiding the point I was trying to make !

A lot of those of people are very ignorant on what vaccines actually do, many times because they heard their pastor, minister, priest, etc. telling them it was dangerous when nothing could be further from the truth, 1/1000 are actually excellent odds.

I didn't realize that was the point you were making. Oops!

Whether reasons of religion or conspiracy or otherwise, vaccines are vital for preventing outbreaks such as smallpox, polio, etc. Just took a look at the CDC website and the odds of serious and life-threatening reactions are dramatically lower than I stated.

Edit: I don't know anyone who won't vaccinate their children due to religious reasons, honestly. Maybe that's more prevalent in other countries or at least in smaller religious sects?

 

[feliciano182]

I don't know anyone who won't vaccinate their children due to religious reasons, honestly. Maybe that's more prevalent in other countries or at least in smaller religious sects?

I wouldn't know in detail, but I wouldn't doubt religious belief to fit into that frame as well.

 

[SkyOracle]

Fun fact. There are plenty of Catholic societies where sick children could've gotten better with medicine. Because of Christianity, they didn't. This faith is literally the only reason children have died from preventable disease.

that's the different between a belief and an action. people can believe what they want but when it comes to actions there has to be a general convention and it should be based on the facts rather than beliefs.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

But actions begin with beliefs, and that's all any religion really is. If you believe in creationism, than you hate Darwin, or at least think he's misguided. If you believe God wants you to fight a war, you will fight. If you believe God hates someone, you will hate or feel conflicted. Regardless of the facts, it's far to easy to use religion as a tool of manipulation.

 

[SkyOracle]

But actions begin with beliefs, and that's all any religion really is. If you believe in creationism, than you hate Darwin, or at least think he's misguided. If you believe God wants you to fight a war, you will fight. If you believe God hates someone, you will hate or feel conflicted. Regardless of the facts, it's far to easy to use religion as a tool of manipulation.

wrong. many people believe many things but not all gonna take actions to make them true.
as an example Muslims believe the things in here
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm
because they are a part of the Quran but not all Muslims are gonna do that.only certain number of people make them true. you can point out many examples to say you are correct but at end of the day there is still one example that can prove you are wrong. if you can be proved wrong by at least one example then you can's say what you have uttered is universally correct. you people solely have the hatred toward the catholic church so it made you blind.

 

[Doctor Langstrom]

wrong. many people believe many things but not all gonna take actions to make them true.
as an example Muslims believe the things in here
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm
because they are a part of the Quran but not all Muslims are gonna do that.only certain number of people make them true. you can point out many examples to say you are correct but at end of the day there is still one example that can prove you are wrong. if you can be proved wrong by at least one example then you can's say what you have uttered is universally correct. you people solely have the hatred toward the catholic church so it made you blind.

There's a lot of reasons to despise the Catholic Church.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

wrong. many people believe many things but not all gonna take actions to make them true.
as an example Muslims believe the things in here
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm
because they are a part of the Quran but not all Muslims are gonna do that.only certain number of people make them true. you can point out many examples to say you are correct but at end of the day there is still one example that can prove you are wrong. if you can be proved wrong by at least one example then you can's say what you have uttered is universally correct. you people solely have the hatred toward the catholic church so it made you blind.

Well SkyOracle, the same can be said for those who let ideas dictate their actions. As long as there is one person who lets religion guide their every action, you are just as wrong as I am. And for the record, I don't hate Catholics. Weather it's all true or not, I think the principle of it is good. It's just too bad that when humans demand absolute faith they tend to take advantage. The fact is they have a bunch of people saying they're the closest thing to God since Jesus. I'd rather worship in solitude than trust anyone with that much authority. Because in the cases where it goes bad, it gets really bad.

 

[SkyOracle]

There's a lot of reasons to despise the Catholic Church.

actions can be despised because it affects on external entities but not beliefs because it only exists in the person's own world.
but the thing is people try to change how other people think because they don't like it it's wrong. if you don't like someone's belief just don't hang out with them.

 

[SkyOracle]

Well SkyOracle, the same can be said for those who let ideas dictate their actions. As long as there is one person who lets religion guide their every action, you are just as wrong as I am. And for the record, I don't hate Catholics. Weather it's all true or not, I think the principle of it is good. It's just too bad that when humans demand absolute faith they tend to take advantage. The fact is they have a bunch of people saying they're the closest thing to God since Jesus. I'd rather worship in solitude than trust anyone with that much authority. Because in the cases where it goes bad, it gets really bad.

that's what I am saying as long as their belief exists in their own world it's fine but when it starts coming out of that realm it's going to affect on external entities like people, if it brings harm on people then it's wrong and it has to be stopped. I dunno why you people can't understand this simple fact.
now let's take this example. if Catholic church believes homosexuality is wrong then it's their belief and it's totally fine but if they start bashing homosexuals and prevent them adopting children or marrying then it's an action so depend on their action the reaction has to be taken.in this case they has to be stopped if they try to make any action against homosexuals because it's an violation against another person's right. we take reactions to protect people and their rights not to revenge on the church. but according to you people you want to change how church believes, and also want to bash them and also want to revenge on them because of the way how they believe against your belief. that's why I told you people solely have the hatred toward them.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

And I suppose we're ignoring that the majority of this hate came from the Catholic Church? Strong ideas will always result in action, and some of the ideas attached to the faith are rather unfortunate.