Stormcloak or Imperial

[Mr.Self Destruct]

Because Ulfric killed hundreds while a single officer ordered your execution.

The difference being that Ulfric is supposed to be Skyrim's new leader.

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[Mr.Self Destruct]

the thalmor tried to make the empire give up southern hammerfell but the redguards (a single province) fought them off and have been doing fine without the empire

Actually they fought off weakened Thalmor but a treaty was signed ending the battle.

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[Jaeger]

Sure, the Imperials try cutting off your head in the beginning but it wasn't the Emperor that ordered your execution, it wasn't Tulius that ordered your execution, it was merely an obviously frustrated officer that sent you to the block.

While as, mentioned above, Ulfric himself sent men, women and children to the block for no reason.

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Tullies is there. Turn on your speech caption. He's to your left speaking at Ulfric.

 

[Jman4505]

not exactly, tullius ordered the execution of all the prisoners without trial, its true that a single officer ordered you executtion but every other imperial there just let it happen.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

not exactly, tullius ordered the execution of all the prisoners without trial, its true that a single officer ordered you executtion but every other imperial there just let it happen.

Because it was obvious they were all stormcloaks, and it was the officer that sentenced you to death, the Imperials there aren't responsible for her actions.

Why are you even arguing this point when the fact is Ulfric slaughtered hundreds for no reason?

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[Jman4505]

first, no other imperial exactly stood up and said "hay you cant execute that guy just cause you dont wanna do some extra paperwork". and second the people ocupying markarth were forsworn who executed the resident nordic leaders and, im quoting madanach himself here "made markarth run red with blood." yes ulfric executed the rebels, but is that not what tullius tried to do at helgen?

 

[Jaeger]

No, the Emperor hates the Thalmor just as much as Ulfric. The Empire grows strong whether the Thalmor allow it or not. And only a united Tamriel could defeat the Thalmor, not a single province. Ulfric only makes the Empire weaker.

The Empire has not been forced to give up portions of its army or anything similar, it slowly regains its strength day by day.

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You don't think any redguard impie soldiers quit the army after the impies gave up their land? You don't think any nords has quit the army after giving up Talos?

 

[Jaeger]

Because it was obvious they were all stormcloaks, and it was the officer that sentenced you to death, the Imperials there aren't responsible for her actions.

Why are you even arguing this point when the fact is Ulfric slaughtered hundreds for no reason?

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And Tullius was there. And were you a storm cloak? And when do imperials handle horse thievery, unless it was their horse...

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

But the fact is the Forsworn were actually RETAKING Markarth from the Nords which plundered and occupied the Reach hundreds of years ago. The men and women living in Markarth were a peaceful people. Among them were even Nords who were allowed to stay even after they retook the city.

And I highly doubt anybody heard the conversation between you, Harvor and the officer. How come Ralof or the other Stormcloaks didn't chip in and say "he's not a rebel" ? When they clearly heard it.

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[Mr.Self Destruct]

Tulius was off talking to Ulfric, stop trying to blame the empire for the actions of an officer.

The fact is Ulfric killed innocent people. And you take his side when (in your views) a single man is sentenced unfairly to the block? What sense does that make?

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[Jman4505]

the forsworn were part of a group participating in an old blood fued between the nords and the bretons, they believe that markarth and the reach should be part of high rock. and most of the stories in markarth about inoccent deaths are just refering to deaths related to the coruption in markarth itself, like thonner silver blood

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

The funny thing is that the corruption stems from the Nord government. If you read up you'll find that under Forsworn rule life was peaceful and fair.

And the Reach has always belonged to the Forsworn. It's their land, and they don't want to be oppressed with Nord customs. Funny coming from a 'liberator of Skyrim' that it shouldn't be returned to its native people.

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[Satorus]

(from a strictly roleplaying point of view) Empire all the way. I was still weighing both sides until i saw both General Tulius and Ulfric at the peace teaty with the Greybeards. Ulfric was a rude, uncouth jerk who was only trying to get as much out of the treaty as possible. Up until that point I didnt really know his personality but that clinched it for me.

(out of character) Both sides have their ups and downs and both sides have done pretty bad things, but i would still stick with the Imperials. The Stormcloaks just seem too unorganized and Ulfric seems like he would most likely bully provinces that scoffed him in the past, (he pretty much said this about Solitude at the treaty) and that in turn would weaken the land rather than strengthen it. The Imperials may be rule jockeying a$$holes but at least they would keep things in order across the land.

 

[Jman4505]

The funny thing is that the corruption stems from the Nord government. If you read up you'll find that under Forsworn rule life was peaceful and fair.

And the Reach has always belonged to the Forsworn. It's their land, and they don't want to be oppressed with Nord customs. Funny coming from a 'liberator of Skyrim' that it shouldn't be returned to its native people.

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the empire could have easily returned the reach to the bretons but did they? adn also ulfric was not a part of the nord goverment and in fact started the rebellion after the jarl screwed him over by outlawing talos worship aftter it was promised to him that if he took back the city it would be restored.

 

[Jman4505]

also the nord goverment was under the rule of, wait for it...THE EMPIRE, thats right youve been arguing about the atrocities the stormcloaks commited that were actually done by the imperials.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

Oh my god. Why are you trying to blame the Empire for something Ulfric did?

Firstly, prior to the Civil War the Reach was ruled by Nords, who took the land thousands of years ago before the Empire from the men of the Reach. During the Great War the Forsworn emerged and retook the city. The Empire couldn't do anything about it because they were busy keeping Tamriel from being destroyed.

So Ulfric is asked by the Jarl to take his men and take back Markarth, promising they'd worship Talos. The Jarl said this without any consent whatsoever from the Empire. Once the city was retaken the Thalmor came in and said you can't worship Talos.

So here is what I see.
>Nords plunder Reach thousands of years ago
>Forsworn take back their rightful home
>Ulfric kills innocent men and women
>HUR DUR EMPYRES FAULT

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[Jaeger]

Tulius was off talking to Ulfric, stop trying to blame the empire for the actions of an officer.

The fact is Ulfric killed innocent people. And you take his side when (in your views) a single man is sentenced unfairly to the block? What sense does that make?

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You ever been in the military? When a general is around, especially so, the head general of the campaign, 10 feet from you - you don't phuck up. You follow the book, your SOP, the rules of engagement.

The forsworn pay reverence to hagravens - evil witches. How good are they?

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

also the nord goverment was under the rule of, wait for it...THE EMPIRE, thats right youve been arguing about the atrocities the stormcloaks commited that were actually done by the imperials.

Actually it was the Jarl of Markarth who asked Ulfric, Jarl of Windhelm, to bring down his detachment of Stormcloaks and retake the city without Imperial consent. If anything the atrocities were committed because the Jarls went against the back of the Empire.

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[Jman4505]

ulfric did not kill innocent women and children he killed dangerous and insane rebles, and most of the atrocities commited inside markarth were done so while markarth was under imperial rule. if you had sided with the stormcloaks during the civil war you would know that the stormcloaks pulled markerth's S*** together and made it a better place

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

You ever been in the military? When a general is around, especially so, the head general of the campaign, 10 feet from you - you don't phuck up. You follow the book, your SOP, the rules of engagement.

The forsworn pay reverence to hagravens - evil witches. How good are they?

Look at it from the officers perspective. You were captured along with Ulfric Stormcloak and other Stormcloaks. She decides who goes to the block or not. And yet you hold the Empire accountable?

Are you seriously calling Forsworn evil because they are mystified by Hagravens? So Ulfric, who's killed hundreds of innocents is not evil but they are?

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