Public Schooling vs. Homeschooling vs. Online Schooling

[Orcs Are Your Friends]

Call me old school, but I think public schooling is the way to go. I think a kid needs to interact with the others to know how to interact with others. It's similar to how a kitten needs to be with other kittens to know how to play and stuff like that. Of course, like Kylee mentioned, there are drawbacks like bullying, drugs, and general bad influences, but that's where the parents come in to work with their children and the school to help alleviate those drawbacks.

 

[AS88]

I could complain for days about how schools in the UK are funded poorly and teachers are often unsuitable, as well as the fact that children consider themselves above the law in 'state' schools (i.e. school paid for by the taxpayer).

All I will add though, is that I always felt that my school was disappointing for the fact that, as a 'gifted and talented' student, I wasn't encouraged or challenged to reach my potential anywhere near as much as those who struggled in school. I realise that not every school is like this, and things have maybe changed, but excellence wasn't encouraged anywhere near as much as it should be. I was forced to work at the rate of the rest of the top set, which in some cases (by no means all) was simply not challenging for me. I have still done pretty well (about to finish a Law degree at the fastest-improving university in the UK), but feel as though some expansion via online learning or more suitable classes would've really made a difference.

That's why I've applied for a graduate job as an Assistant Director of a branch of a company which provides after-school (and holiday-time) tutoring for children to supplement their learning. There has been proof that by tailoring their individual learning to each child by way of setting up their own account on the company system, they make considerably better progress than they do than if they simply attend school. While this is brilliant for those children, and the company for which I'm applying, this is another example of how schools are failing to get the best out of their pupils, preferring instead to spend millions of pounds on building ugly new campuses and massive new facilities instead of actually tending to each child's academic needs.

I would love to send my (as yet non-existent) children to a good state school, to learn the ways of the world and gain their social skills and life experience in addition to what I'll be teaching them about the world. But I also hope I won't have to supplement their learning by paying extra for a service which schools should be providing in the first place, although I fear this is the reality in the UK these days - if you want something done, you can't rely on public services any more.

 

[Karen]

I'm interested in hearing about the online school you work in, it sounds different from my personal experience. Where I live, online classes are only offered from grades 8-12, and you have to take a certain number of classes in an actual school, so you can't have your entire education online.

I took one online class during my last year of high school - English, because our class was cursed or something and we went through three teachers over a span of about three months for some reason, all of whom had very different teaching styles, so it was hard to keep up. The last teacher we got was an absolute dickhead who was clearly not an English teacher, but just subbed in because no one else was available to do the job, and printed 'comprehension' multiple choice quizzes off of SparkNotes.com to evaluate our understanding of the previously assigned reading materials. But I digress. Anyway, eventually, I got so fed up I arranged to drop out of the class and take the equivalent of English 12 online instead, even if it meant I had missed about four months of it.

There was a lot more freedom in the online class, which I liked, but it was also what almost killed me. Because there were no set deadlines for individual assignments or any kind of schedule to adhere to at all, I procrastinated a lot, and ended up doing about half the course in the last two days of the school year. I managed to pull an 88%, but I didn't sleep or leave the house for almost 48 hours; in the online schooling system our school used, we could see who in the class was online at the time, and I could see that over half the class had done the same thing. Now, I know that it was my fault for being so lazy, but my point is, I don't know if it's such a good idea to offer a class like that to kids in grades as early as Kindergarten, because it takes good time management and punctuality, which (imo) is something learned over many years of going to actual classes.

Another thing I noticed was that there was no actual teaching going on. The class was essentially a list of briefly described assignments and dropboxes that you could hand in at any time and in any order during the school year. You could message the teacher if you need help, but from the few times I tried, they answered rather tersely, and it seemed like they were there for simple yes/no questions regarding the assignments, but not to teach the actual material (and this was during the former half of the school year, when I had done my work at reasonable hours of the day). Perhaps it's very different for the younger grades, and at grade 12 you are expected to teach yourself more or less anyway, but to me, it still seemed less of a place to learn but a place to be evaluated on things you already know, and if you didn't know it, you couldn't do well the course.

Of course, that was just my online school, and I only had the grade 12 experience of it. I just can't really imagine how it would work for grade school students. As far as I can remember, grade school was a lot of singing and painting and playing tag on the playground, and I can't see how an online classroom could substitute that.

That said, I'd still send my hypothetical kids to public school. I had a lot of good times and met some of the greatest people I know there, and I wouldn't trade my high school years for anything in the world. I think the good of public schools overshadow the bad, and even the "bad" experiences might not be so (I'm struggling not to use this word three times in the same sentence, but) bad, provided it doesn't get to the extreme end of things. As mentioned several times, it should be the parents' responsibility to teach kids how to deal with issues like bullying and peer pressure, and I hope I'd have a good enough relationship with my kids that they would come to me if they are struggling to get along with other kids. Should schools and their faculty do their best to provide a safe and comfortable environment for students? Absolutely, and I think good schools do just that, but I don't believe it's solely their responsibility to ensure all the kids have a good social life.

Nothing against home schooling, of course, it's just that I went to a public school, and my brothers did, and everyone in my family and extended family did and we all liked it and turned out fine, so I would most likely send my kids to a public school. I'm nowhere near being a parent, though, so my opinions now might change.

/ramble

 

[kyleekay]

Karen, if you want to discuss the one I worked at feel free to PM me

 

[Karen]

Sure thing, if you're not busy. It's just a point of interest, since I think it's still a fairly new thing that's being developed in many places and it'd be nice to see the differences between yours and mine. Send you a PM after lunch.

 

[Gehenna]

I don't like the propaganda that I believe is being used by public schools to indoctrinate kids toward liberalism in the US right now, but as I don't have children, that's a moot point for me at this time.

I will however give my own experience on this. I was taken out of a private school right after fourth grade. My mother is one of those people who is "blown about like a weather vane" (as the character in Dragon Age 2 put it). She was always into Christianity but her interpretation of it varied wildly according to whatever she was into at the time. At one time she joined the Bill Gothard cult and forced my sister and myself to go along with it, and thus we were home schooled.

So, she decided to home school me, but she was and always has been extremely unqualified. The highest level of education she herself has is a certificate in drafting from a vocational school. She also never socialized with other home school moms and kids as far as I can recall. She bought the curriculum and had me tested each year as required, but she never taught me anything, never helped me with lessons. I read the books on my own, and did the assignments on my own. I believe I only made it through because I was intelligent enough to pass those tests. Of what I recall of those tests, I was placing at college level in some subjects while still in elementary school. I can only be grateful that I didn't have a learning disability or things would not have been pleasant for me.

It wasn't perfect and I'm not a genius. I have problems because of how I was raised and schooled. My math skills are stunted because my mom didn't get me a tutor. I had a hell of a time getting into college because I didn't have standard high school transcripts to send to them, and had to take additional placement tests. I also ended up with a GED at age 16 instead of a high school diploma.

My ability to think on my feet and interact with people confidently is not very good and it has impacted my ability to get jobs. I tend to be treated badly because I don't exactly exude an air of confidence, and thus people tend to walk all over me (this I am working on diligently). I also have somewhat limited verbal skills that make me feel incompetent when I'm trying to get a point across. This is why I'm so much better at getting my thoughts out in writing.

I think homeschooling may have its purpose for certain children who have parents wise enough to get them what they need in order to thrive in the environment, but it's a disaster waiting to happen when the parent either doesn't know what they're doing or just doesn't care enough to do the job correctly.

 

[Rayven]

I absolutely sympathize with the points made concerning parents who are more concerned with the thought of "homeschooling" than they are about actually providing the best education for their kids.

I still think parents have the ultimate responsibility to educate their own kids. If that means sending them to public school, fine. If it means alternative means of education, that's fine too. I have yet to live in a state that has a government that knows my child better than I do. And I have yet to feel any compulsion whatsoever in having any governmental body dictate what I may and may not teach my child.

My daughter could read phonetically by the age of 4. She could deal with all the exceptions by 5. My local public school refused to put her into kindergarten because her birthday was late in the year. When they did finally decide they would take her, after 2 years of homeschooling her up to "5th grade levels" in reading and "2nd grade" in math, they said they would finally take her. I inquired as to what would be done when they were covering things like the alphabet. They told me they'd stick her at a table in the corner to read.

So, my child would be alienated in a classroom of her "peers" because she committed the crime of knowing how to read. Needless to say, I was not interested in this arrangement.

I fought tooth and nail to try and get the best education for my daughter and it turns out, a synergy of homeschooling and a montessori school have her achieving astronomical levels. Despite the best efforts of my public school system, ranked among the "highest" in my state, my daughter does college level reading, language arts and science, middle school math and is at grade in social studies as per her testing each year. Rather than force her (or any student) to arbitrarily wait at some "grade level", the montessori school had me bring college level science materials to her classroom to keep her moving forward. In the same vein, when she (or any student) needs more time on a lesson, it is simply given. No student, literally, is left behind. When they master skill A, they move to skill B. It's really that darned simple.

They are taught to ask for help. They are taught to ask for more material. They are taught that new material is a reward for mastery of old material. They are taught that true mastery comes when they can teach their material to a younger student. The classrooms, both at home and at school, contain materials that harness all of the senses and can engage any learning style that best suits the child. They are encouraged to do side projects when the inspiration strikes. They are taught to make fabulous messes of chaotic creation. And then they are taught to tidy their space. Parent at our school have been asked to come in and present material in their personal areas of expertise. I have taught science and art and I have been blessed with a faculty that fills in all the gaps in my own areas of knowledge.

When the children are restless or tired, they are taken outside and told to play. Hard. When they are cranky and unsettled, they are allowed their own quiet space to sit in their own skin and do whatever brings them some measure of peace.

Problems are identified, dissected and solved by parents and teachers working together as soon as anything is noticed. Teachers are infinitely flexible and parents accept guidance. Parents proactively seek out adventures, field trips and activities and are able to take their children to participate. Through the summer, the students themselves demand classroom space and run workshops in their areas of interest for other students while school is not actually in session.

Everyone takes the shared responsibility of engaging, challenging and holding students accountable. This was true when my daughter studied exclusively at home and it continues to be true when she attends her school.

It is too easy to compartmentalize children, to create ridiculous "standardized testing" to supposedly measure a child's progress. Children aren't standards. They are children. They are forces of nature just begging to be harnessed if people would just shut up long enough and stop trying to force them into a box.

(Edited to add that my daughter is 11 years old.)

 

[Gehenna]

I'd just like to say, Rayven, that I very much wish that I'd had the kind of schooling that you're describing for your daughter. I was schooled the way I was because my mom is a fruitcake and my dad ran off and didn't care, not because anyone knew or cared what was best for me.

Good for you and your daughter! (insert thumbs up icon here)

 

[Rayven]

Heck, even I wish I had the schooling my daughter has now. My schooling wasn't bad, but my mother and grandparents spent a good amount of money to send me to our local private school instead of the public ones to give me the best shot. None of them would have been appropriate homeschoolers.

Our education system in the United States, top to bottom, is a convoluted mess. It shouldn't be so difficult for a parent to get their kids in a good solid school. It shouldn't be hard for kids to fit in, work hard and reap the rewards. It shouldn't take months of jumping through hoops to get a college education. As a society, we should want to be surrounded by smart people and good citizens. Why we've spent so long making up so much nonsense is a question I'll never be able to answer. And while the top level 'education czars' continue spending like crazy on crap instead of actually focusing on what kids and parents need, we all suffer.