Is the United States headed for a revolution?

[Cylos]

Americans desire socialism, as long as it isn't labelled that way.

I think most people feel naturally drawn to helping others. I've noticed that the hostility is more to the label than anything, most likely due to societal misconceptions and confusion with what it actually is.

 

[utael]

I personally dont like the everyone helps everyone attitude, I am the free for all style. If I work my ass off to get something imdont want to share that with someone else, I also dont like the government controlled free market thats what made these companies too big to fail. Let the go down burning dont save them from themselves.

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[Zahn]

It's interesting that when you ask Americans how much wealth redistribution they believe is fair, their answers come much closer to conditions in the far more 'liberal' countries of Northern Europe that they would deride as 'socialist'.

Americans desire socialism, as long as it isn't labelled that way.

Too generalized a statement. I like the socialized healthcare system, but it has faults just like anything else. That is about where it ends for me, and I am an American. I do not think a majority of Americans are aware of the realities of LIVING in a socialized system rather than idolizing one much less paying the taxes in said system in order to support it.

 

[Crooksin]

Too generalized a statement. I like the socialized healthcare system, but it has faults just like anything else. That is about where it ends for me, and I am an American. I do not think a majority of Americans are aware of the realities of LIVING in a socialized system rather than idolizing one much less paying the taxes in said system in order to support it.

Idk, I would bet I don't pay THAT much more taxes compared to an American. Probably about the same, but then again our min wage is a couple dollars higher so that makes a difference. (I'm Canadian) I would still rather socialized healthcare.... for the security. I really don't mind.

 

[Stephen Daidalus]

Too generalized a statement. I like the socialized healthcare system, but it has faults just like anything else. That is about where it ends for me, and I am an American. I do not think a majority of Americans are aware of the realities of LIVING in a socialized system rather than idolizing one much less paying the taxes in said system in order to support it.

I think you may have a different idea of what a 'socialized system' means to people who are not American. We're not talking about Communist Russia. When I bring up 'socialism' in the context of wealth redistribution, I'm talking about Germany, Sweden, Finland, for example. We have members from all three of these countries here, and while I'm sure they have numerous complaints about their governments, I do not expect them to describe the living conditions in their countries as something to be particularly feared compared to conditions in the USA.

Edit: Here's the article I was referring to when I said Americans want a more 'socialized' system:

http://harvardmagazine.com/2011/11/what-we-know-about-wealth

 

[Zahn]

Idk, I would bet I don't pay THAT much more taxes compared to an American. Probably about the same, but then again our min wage is a couple dollars higher so that makes a difference. (I'm Canadian) I would still rather socialized healthcare.... for the security. I really don't mind.

I would LOVE a socialized health care system in the US. I agree that the security alone is worth it. Even just basic preventative care would be worth a tax hike to me. But then, I suppose that all depends on how much a person already pays in taxes. I pay a decent amount already. My parents pay a ton especially with this new health care package our congress let pass-and they get nothing out of it except new higher insurance costs for their own plan. Awesome. And the poor? They still get nothing.

 

[Zahn]

I think you may have a different idea of what a 'socialized system' means to people who are not American. We're not talking about Communist Russia. When I bring up 'socialism' in the context of wealth redistribution, I'm talking about Germany, Sweden, Finland, for example. We have members from all three of these countries here, and while I'm sure they have numerous complaints about their governments, I do not expect them to describe the living conditions in their countries as something to be particularly feared compared to conditions in the USA.

Edit: Here's the article I was referring to when I said Americans want a more 'socialized' system:

http://harvardmagazine.com/2011/11/what-we-know-about-wealth

I wouldn't describe living conditions in the US as something to be feared. LOLOL! I think some people have a very skewed idea of what the average living conditions are here. Too many people thinking movies are real maybe.

All systems have problems. Nothing is perfect. I have lived in the US system on both economic spectrums and though there may be horrific individual stories out there, it is not quite as dramatically tragic as some would make it out to be. The system isn't socialized and in truth, it should be. I think eventually the US will go that way... but it is going to take a loooooooooong time.

I will read the article and see what I think about the author's ideas.

 

[Mwhals]

Our health care costs have skyrocketed since ObamaCare. I am paying 40% more with another 20 to 100% increase expected in 2014. Someone has to pay for socialized health care. Those getting it for near free are doing it on the backs of us that are working.

 

[utael]

Funny they were before too. I spent a night, one night, for the flu. They gave me fluids and ibuprophen. The bill for the iv and 5 bags, 12 grand. The cost of each of 12 pills 120 bucks a piece. Oh and insurance from the same hospital(dad was a flight nurse) only paid for 4 grand. So before you listen to the bullshi# that the media spouts check actual sources for info on the costs. BTW under Obama care my insursance would have been required to pay 10 grand.

 

[Zahn]

Under Obama care, if you are outside the guidelines of a "healthy weight" or a smoker, your costs are going to be significantly higher also regardless what your actual health condition is according to your physician. (ie a bit overweight but no accompaning health issues related to weight).

Honestly though.. there are some other very serious things going on right now that have most of my attention. Issues that seriously need every voters scrutiny.. I am afraid that voters are going to allow themselves to be distracted from them though.

Yeah...

 

[Stephen Daidalus]

I would LOVE a socialized health care system in the US. I agree that the security alone is worth it. Even just basic preventative care would be worth a tax hike to me. But then, I suppose that all depends on how much a person already pays in taxes. I pay a decent amount already. My parents pay a ton especially with this new health care package our congress let pass-and they get nothing out of it except new higher insurance costs for their own plan. Awesome. And the poor? They still get nothing.

Taxes are higher in Canada. However, here in BC, a family of 3 or more pays a maximum of $133.00 per month with no deductibles or copays to ensure every family member. Individuals pay a maximum of $66.50. As your income drops below $30k/year, your fees are reduced or eliminated completely. So we are not paying both high taxes and high premiums.

On the other hand, there is a shortage of doctors and rather dismal wait times for many surgeries and diagnostic procedures. This could be improved, I believe, with higher premiums on the upper income ranges, and a less -absurdly- strict licensing procedure for foreign (including Americans with US certification) doctors who wish to practice in Canada.

I wouldn't describe living conditions in the US as something to be feared. LOLOL!

I didn't suggest that they were; I was pointing out that conditions in other countries that embraced a more 'socialized' variety of income distribution weren't to be feared any more than conditions in the US.

Edit: Since I would be ineligible for health insurance in the US due to pre-existing conditions, I would definitely find even travelling there something to fear, though.

 

[WarriorMage]

When I said this, I meant this kind of outrage never comes from the right when a republican president is in office.

Nor, as I recall, do we see it from the left when a Democratic president is in office.

I also hate both sides, for the mentality of "you're either with us completely, on every issue, or you're against us".

I agree. Both sides need to get rid of the "My way or the highway" attitude and do what's best for the country. Even if it's "The Other Side's" idea.

Regarding gun control, I think everyone should be given a gun with three bullets, trained in its use, and be required to carry it at all times. That way when the next nut-job starts shooting in a theater or mall everyone there can open up on him and take him out. People would think twice about doing a mass shooting if they knew all their innocent victims were packing.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I don't believe everyone should carry a gun. There should be a larger gun control, the U.S has a lot of gun related violence. While gun related violence is a global issue, in many countries where there is a gun control you find there are less mass shootings, gun related violence in my country is more related to Biker Gangs fighting each other. Which now there are heavily enforced laws where you can be searched and your property searched without a warrant if you're a member of a gang.

Guns are very easy to obtain in the States, which should change. Not everyone needs to be packing a weapon at all times, that is borderline paranoia going into fear of everyone who looks at you funny.

 

[utael]

But at the same time, when you start limiting gun availability you aren't stopping the people who are going to use them illegally. You are just stopping the ones legally possessing a fire arm. You are also limiting the peoples right to defend themselves against an unjust government. The fact that because you are involved with other people with similar views as you means your house is able to be searched without a warrant is utter bullplops. That is a sure sign of an unjust government.

 

[DrunkenMage]

But at the same time, when you start limiting gun availability you aren't stopping the people who are going to use them illegally. You are just stopping the ones legally possessing a fire arm. You are also limiting the peoples right to defend themselves against an unjust government. The fact that because you are involved with other people with similar views as you means your house is able to be searched without a warrant is utter bullpl***. That is a sure sign of an unjust government.

Gun control on other methods, you can obtain a firearm through collectors at shows without a background check or a licence. Defend themselves against an unjust Government? You don't live in a police state where you're dragged out of your bed with a black bag over your head for no apparent reason. There are far worse places than the United States, there are countries where you are executed for merely watching certain TV shows.

Limiting illegal activities of violent gangs isn't a sign of an unjust Government. It is the sign of a Government cracking down on gangland warfare, where people are gunned down in the streets or in their homes in front of their little children, protecting innocent lives from being taken in the cross fire. Being able to search gang members at will limits their ability to conduct illegal activity, searching their cars and person. Involved with people who have similar views as you? This isn't about being part of a chess club, these people activity kill, bring in drugs and steal. So if you have similar views as them, you certainly shouldn't be carrying a weapon.

 

[utael]

The reason we aren't in a police state is that we are armed. I was making a point of how the definition of gang can be used in a way that allows searching of innocents. The attitude if there are worse is what got us to this point. People have stopped caring about laws and don't care unless it affects them. Unfortunately politicians have gotten smart enough to hide what does effect is in mundane bs so no one cares.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Over here currently the new laws are in one state and another will be following, are targeted towards bikie gangs. How the new laws are going is that the current gangs in the State where the new laws are in place are fleeing west to escape them. But now it has been announced the western state shall put in place the laws also. It is cutting down their ability to do their illegal business, their clubs are being raided, their members being searched. Also they can get their bikes crushed as punishment for some minor crimes.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The reason we aren't in a police state is that we are armed. I was making a point of how the definition of gang can be used in a way that allows searching of innocents. The attitude if there are worse is what got us to this point. People have stopped caring about laws and don't care unless it affects them. Unfortunately politicians have gotten smart enough to hide what does effect is in mundane bs so no one cares.

So the only reason you're not a police state is that you're all armed against your Government. The paranoia of certain Americans has certainly increased since 9/11, you're not going to be a police state, being armed has nothing to do with it. The Police and Military aren't mindless followers where they're willing to harm their families and friends, do you truly believe all Police and all members of the Military are simply going to throw away their belief in the Constitution to take away your rights.

Hate to break it to you, but even if you're correct about this Police State, civilians with some guns aren't going to stop the Government making a police state. They got tanks, you got pistols and hunting rifles. Unless you're packing a Triple-A gun on your property, won't make much difference. If the Government truly wanted a police state, you'd be in one.

 

[Wolfbane]

I came to add this; A revolution doesn't have to involve bullets. I vote for bringing back the punk movement! I'm talking about the punk that stood for things, not general angrypunk lol The punk bands accomplished a lot. It could us some good.

 

[PrisonerLizzie]

Which now there are heavily enforced laws where you can be searched and your property searched without a warrant if you're a member of a gang.
.

What are they doing then to make sure that innocent people are not being victimized by the authorities? This is a very scary thing indeed.