Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Ru;indil]

But even then it seems like your really just supporting Ulfric and Galmar's Zero Tolerance policy for non-Nords.

The freedom fighting argument fizzles when you realize Torryg would have seceded if Ulfric had just asked (which Torryg likely thought he was doing the day Ulfric killed him.)

Still , even if your fighting as a Stormcloak , you'll still be indirectly helping the Thalmor and the segregation of races.

 

[Seanu Reaves]

Still , even if your fighting as a Stormcloak , you'll still be indirectly helping the Thalmor and the segregation of races.

That was a more subtle detail, I find most people be they die hard Stromcloak or Imperial miss certain details that aren't as evident. Though you are right. (if I may be honest this thread is mostly to boost my post numbers.)

 

[Ru;indil]

That was a more subtle detail, I find most people be they die hard Stromcloak or Imperial miss certain details that aren't as evident. Though you are right. (if I may be honest this thread is mostly to boost my post numbers.)

True. Though , I wouldn't support the Stormcloaks unless I am playing from a roleplay perspective.

Also :

The Arcturian Heresy : http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Arcturian_Heresy

After doing the Old Hroldan quest , I am more inclined to believe the Arcturian Heresy. It's a quest found in the Old Hroldan Inn , southeast of Markarth.

 

[Adam Belmont]

But even then it seems like your really just supporting Ulfric and Galmar's Zero Tolerance policy for non-Nords.

The freedom fighting argument fizzles when you realize Torryg would have seceded if Ulfric had just asked (which Torryg likely thought he was doing the day Ulfric killed him.)

He asked for a simple reason. The primitive reason of why the Stormcloaks are fighting is: independence and freedom from the Empire and the Thalmor. If you see that way, the Stormcloak cause seems honorable, the problem is the head of the cause and all the political matter behind. When you put together all the pieces on the board, well, the Stormcloaks seems a bad idea.

 

[Seanu Reaves]

He asked for a simple reason. The primitive reason of why the Stormcloaks are fighting is: independence and freedom from the Empire and the Thalmor. If you see that way, the Stormcloak cause seems honorable, the problem is the head of the cause and all the political matter behind. When you put together all the pieces on the board, well, the Stormcloaks seems a bad idea.

IDK Its just what they are fighting for didn't need actual bloodshed to achieve. Honestly I don't think Ulfric is a bad leader, he just puts to much stake in Galmar's word IMO.

If you want a simple reason: The Stormcloaks chose an ugly shade of blue. Nothing is simple in most conflicts, if it was then there wouldn't be 438 pages of giggles on this thread.

 

[Docta Corvina]

I still conceive of it in a micro vs macro fashion, and it's a notion that's been articulated throughout this thread explicitly and implicitly.

If you're more immediately concerned with Skyrim's occupation by Thalmor agents and the restoration of Talos worship than you are with the historically informed context (and ominous stage-setting for warfare to come) in which this is all occurring, then the Stormcloaks are a logical choice. Breaking away from the Empire and expelling the Thalmor from the land at least theoretically work to restore the desired status quo. Skyrim is rendered legally free from Thalmor jurisdiction on the basis of enforcing the Concordat's religious restrictions.

However, as has been noted, once you effectively zoom out and observe the "bigger picture", such as the Thalmor's overall strategy of proxy warfare (ie. dividing and conquering), the case for the Empire becomes that much more dire and compelling. If you're troubled by what (possibly) lies ahead with a weakened Empire in the face of future Dominion confrontation, then it seems logical, at least to me and many others, that reining in the Stormcloaks and stopping further fracturing is a good bet.

All in all, it does seem to come down to recognized priorities - all of which may and will vary.

 

[Captain Nagisus]

Okay people, my feet are destroyed and I feel cranky. So let me just deliver a message to ya.

Ahem. *cough cough, cracks knuckles* You're all thinking way too hard.

I love a bit of RP and imagination and stuff too, but really, the point where you have to THINK about decisions is the point beyond the line. The line of baking soda which ants will not cross. Congratulations - you're not ants! Guess why I picked the Empire? Three reasons; Ulfric was segregating my eggbrothers, Tullius' voice is awesome, and I heard you get Ulfric's clothes if you join the Empire. Isn't it that easy for you guys too?

But I have come with a solution. Make a mini Wheel-of-Fortune kinda thing which you can spin. Separate it into 8th's. Paint 4 eighths blue and the other 4 red. Spin it. If it lands on blue, join Ulfric. If it's red, join Tullius.

"But Captain! I think Ulf is a mega mondo doucheface! I don't wanna join him!"

Well...*SPOILERS*

Spoiler

Give the Dragon Crown thing to the Jarl of Solitude instead of Ulfric. You'll automatically switch sides. This works to swap from Empire to Stormcloaks too! Pretend you were only being a spy, for RP reasons.

CAN THIS FRICKIN THREAD DIE NOW OH MY GOODNESS IT'S LIKE A GALAPAGIAN TORTOISE IT JUST WON'T DIEEEEE

 

[DrunkenMage]

I want a good reason to join the Stormcloaks, basically at least.

Simple reason, no lore, no role play, no caring about all other in game situations.

Imperial armor has more value, the more Imperials you kill, the more money.

Downside to Stormcloak side is if you enjoy killing Thalmor, enjoy killing Thalmor go Imperials and you'll see more Thalmor about.

 

[Ozan]

I think Stormcloak has sexier voice actors. They get Balgruuf's voice and Mjoll's voice. Who could ask for more?

Though, Tullius is pretty nifty. And their armor is sexy, specially with the Horseman helm. If you're a thief, rocking out the Penitus Occulatus (sp) armor seems to make you feel more unique. If Stormcloak had Heavy Armor, I'd be all over it, out of and in character.

I kinda wished the legion had more people with shields though.

Idk, I'm just ranting now... ><))

 

[Mr1cammando]

So is this thread finally cooling off after 438 pages of rage and arguing?

 

[Ozan]

Seems like it. I never had anything against Mage as I've always respected him and his responses, even if it didn't seem like it. When I asked him if he was angry, I was about to apologize. He's a good guy. So is Docta and Feliciano.

I can't speak for them, but I am far too tired to wage a verbal war against people I respect. Too much irl, a chance that a part of me will die in the future, and so on.

Ozan is Stormcloak because of authority issues. I am in this thread to voice his inner conflict concerning the authority. As I am out of character, I can't say I fan these fires.

Oh, well...))

 

[DrunkenMage]

Nah I don't get angry about this thread, it's all good fun. Beating each other into the ground and at each others throats are what this thread is, outside the thread everyone is all good mates.

Of course there will always be times where you just want to do this;

But that makes it more enjoyable, being able to attack each other but still friends outside the thread.

 

[Ozan]

Heh... I've picked a fight in the past in this thread. Was great... Though very rude of me and I shouldn't have to begin with.

Ah well, I'll be doing some back stories soon. Perhaps get more involved in the forum. At least this trail of ash and tears and blood brings us together.))

 

[bosmernagini]

The Skyrim for the Nords? The xenophobic relations with other races? The not buying from Non-Nord merchants?

Yes. I do not think that the Imperial side have the right to storm into another territory and take it over, and dictate to the natives what they can and cannot do. In spite of the perhaps, over-zealous protests that the Nords employ, I still agree with their cause.

I personally see a parallel in terms of the real life acquisitions of different countries and cultures. For example, the British Empire took over more than half of the world. Whilst conquering other countries can be useful in terms of boosting the economy, I still disagree with it because it often means the violation of natives rights.

When choosing my alliance in Skyrim this is what made me side with the Stormcloaks. I liked their attitude and I felt it was right for my character.

 

[Captain Nagisus]

Yes. I do not think that the Imperial side have the right to storm into another territory and take it over, and dictate to the natives what they can and cannot do. In spite of the perhaps, over-zealous protests that the Nords employ, I still agree with their cause.

I personally see a parallel in terms of the real life acquisitions of different countries and cultures. For example, the British Empire took over more than half of the world. Whilst conquering other countries can be useful in terms of boosting the economy, I still disagree with it because it often means the violation of natives rights.

When choosing my alliance in Skyrim this is what made me side with the Stormcloaks. I liked their attitude and I felt it was right for my character.

And yet, Ulfric led a militia to defeat the native Forsworn. And I've never seen a Stormcloak caring about Orcs.

 

[bosmernagini]

And yet, Ulfric led a militia to defeat the native Forsworn. And I've never seen a Stormcloak caring about Orcs.

Yes, you're right. I suppose I just prefer the Stormcloaks, putting pros and cons of each alliance aside. They seem more interesting to me than the Imperials, like, they have more heart? The Imperials seem to be cold and plain.

In the end I guess I'm trying to rebel against 'the man' a little bit.

 

[Captain Nagisus]

Yes, you're right. I suppose I just prefer the Stormcloaks, putting pros and cons of each alliance aside. They seem more interesting to me than the Imperials, like, they have more heart? The Imperials seem to be cold and plain.

In the end I guess I'm trying to rebel against 'the man' a little bit.

I like you. You're not really argumentative. You're right though, Imperials are pretty cold and Stormcloak clothes are spiffy. It's just opinion.

 

[bosmernagini]

I like you. You're not really argumentative. You're right though, Imperials are pretty cold and Stormcloak clothes are spiffy. It's just opinion.

Well, spiffy is always a winner, haha. It is opinion, and I don't feel the need to get too riled up about it. I like that you're so cool and collected about this, too. A lot of people wouldn't accept my backing down and would see it as weak I guess. So yeah it's cool.

Plus Stormcloaks have a waay better name

 

[DrunkenMage]

Yes. I do not think that the Imperial side have the right to storm into another territory and take it over, and dictate to the natives what they can and cannot do. In spite of the perhaps, over-zealous protests that the Nords employ, I still agree with their cause.

I personally see a parallel in terms of the real life acquisitions of different countries and cultures. For example, the British Empire took over more than half of the world. Whilst conquering other countries can be useful in terms of boosting the economy, I still disagree with it because it often means the violation of natives rights.

When choosing my alliance in Skyrim this is what made me side with the Stormcloaks. I liked their attitude and I felt it was right for my character.

Imperials didn't storm into anywhere, the Nords joined the Empire before Tiber Septim even became Emperor, that was the Second Era, it is currently the Fourth Era during the events of Skyrim. The Nords and Imperials conquered Tamriel together, the Nords have a long history of invading other races, such as The First Empire of the Nords, or during the Imperial Simulacrum where Skyrim invaded High Rock and Hammerfell taking over many miles of land. The Nords themselves have been known to subdue native races, such as the Snow elves and even the Reachmen (Of whom the Nords forbid the natives of the reach from worshiping their own Gods.)

Imperial authority brings peace and stability, the last time Imperial authority was low all the provinces were at war with each other, the Imperials are hardly evil tyrants. Windhelm is Skyrim away from Imperial authority, racial segregation and a city falling a part. Growing food in Skyrim is actually rather hard due to the climate, very few farms do well (exception being Rorikstead) The Nords used to raid other provinces for things, they can't do that in the more modern times of Tamriel as more lands are united. They depend on the Empire for many things, you can't feed the population with the grand speeches Ulfric makes.

"Because the Dominion is a sleeping beast that Skyrim cannot slay alone. Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now. Because the food and resources we get from the Empire are important to our people. Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his Empire."

The Imperial Legion is made up of many races, the Imperial Soldiers you see in Skyrim aren't just the race Imperial but many are in fact Nords. You also have a Dark Elf Legate and a High Elf Legate, many Orcs join the Legion as smiths and heavy front line infantry.

The Imperial Legion has been in Skyrim for hundreds close to a thousand years, they're hardly Invading. The Civil war isn't Imperial vs Nord but infact Imperial, Nord, Dark Elf, Breton, High Elf, Orc, Redguard, Wood elf (Empire has many races that are citizens) vs Stormcloak

All races are equal in the Empire, anyone can join the Legion. Stormcloaks don't really scream "We support racial equality"

Edit: There is also some Redguard Legionnaires in Skyrim, I noticed one as a Imperial Quartermaster, had a redguard hair style.

 

[bosmernagini]

Imperials didn't storm into anywhere, the Nords joined the Empire before Tiber Septim even became Emperor, that was the Second Era, it is currently the Fourth Era during the events of Skyrim. The Nords and Imperials conquered Tamriel together, the Nords have a long history of invading other races, such as The First Empire of the Nords, or during the Imperial Simulacrum where Skyrim invaded High Rock and Hammerfell taking over many miles of land. The Nords themselves have been known to subdue native races, such as the Snow elves and even the Reachmen (Of whom the Nords forbid the natives of the reach from worshiping their own Gods.)

Imperial authority brings peace and stability, the last time Imperial authority was low all the provinces were at war with each other, the Imperials are hardly evil tyrants. Windhelm is Skyrim away from Imperial authority, racial segregation and a city falling apart. Growing food in Skyrim is actually rather hard due to the climate, very few farms do well (exception being Rorikstead) The Nords used to raid other provinces for things, they can't do that in the more modern times of Tamriel as more lands are united. They depend on the Empire for many things, you can't feed the population with the grand speeches Ulfric makes.

"Because the Dominion is a sleeping beast that Skyrim cannot slay alone. Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now. Because the food and resources we get from the Empire are important to our people. Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his Empire."

The Imperial Legion is made up of many races, the Imperial Soldiers you see in Skyrim aren't just the race Imperial but many are in fact Nords. You also have a Dark Elf Legate and a High Elf Legate, many Orcs join the Legion as smiths and heavy front line infantry.

The Imperial Legion has been in Skyrim for hundreds close to a thousand years, they're hardly Invading. The Civil war isn't Imperial vs Nord but infact Imperial, Nord, Dark Elf, Breton, High Elf, Orc, Redguard, Wood elf (The Empire has many races that are citizens) vs Stormcloak

Nice argument! Seriously, I have like, no defense for it. It seems a little inconsequential to say it, compared to your paragraph, and illogical in spite of the Stormcloaks/Nords shortcomings bit I still just prefer the Stormcloaks. I love their spirit and their energy to fight, how much heart they have. I love your argument but I'm a stubborn lass.

It seems I will have to look so much deeper into Skyrim and it's lore if I want to hold my own in the future though. Damn!