Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Anouck]

It never has been so quiet here

 

[CottonCandyDeath]

The first time around i picked the Stormcloaks. I had decided before really getting into the game and learning about both sides. I was like yeah sure they got to be awesome. Whats not cool about being the rebels. Later on i realized i made a mistake. and regretted my choice. Ulfric is nothing but a power hungry tyrant who doesnt care at all about the people. I also learned nords were pretty much jerks and they look down on anyone they isnt a nord.

This time around i chose the Imperials. They really seem to be the better choice.

 

[MaraRose]

I have played both sides with a few diff races. I honestly think that the stormcloaks civil war line is alot more fun. I also played it as an altmer just to throw it off a little bit and it doesnt matter what your race is, you can chose either side. i used to think that the empire was the way to go, but after playing the stormcloak line as an altmer spellsinger, ill stick with the rebels

 

[Emilian]

There are no positives nor negatives for both as they are fairly balanced out.
I prefer Stormcloaks though as they did not want to cut my freaking head off in the beginning.

 

[Anouck]

I prefer Stormcloaks though as they did not want to cut my freaking head off in the beginning.

I never see why people use this as a reason to join the Stormcloaks. Don't get me wrong; I understand the frustration. But the Imperials are the authorities in Skyrim. Blaming them for arresting people is the same thing as blaming the police for arresting people. The Stormcloaks don't toss people in prison because they are not the arm of the law.

 

[Emilian]

I never see why people use this as a reason to join the Stormcloaks. Don't get me wrong; I understand the frustration. But the Imperials are the authorities in Skyrim. Blaming them for arresting people is the same thing as blaming the police for arresting people. The Stormcloaks don't toss people in prison because they are not the arm of the law.

I know but it just feels.. Weird XD

 

[Anouck]

I know but it just feels.. Weird XD

I see

I also had this dilemma. But I joined the Imperials because being angry about the execution doesn't make Ulfric right. I don't agree with everything the Legion is doing but I think the Stormcloaks are dangerous for Skyrim's future. Therefor I won't join them.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The reason they try to cut off your head is because you're caught and suspected of treason with no real way to prove your innocence. If you listen to Lokir he pleads with the Stormcloaks to tell the Imperials we're not with them. How law actually works in all of Tamriel is rather cruel and backwardsl, Tamriel legal system has its basis in the civilized, reasonable credo uttered by the prophet Marukh in the first era: "All are guilty until they have proven themselves innocent." Were truer word ever spoke? - Legal Basics

There is really no way to prove your innocence when you're facing the block. The Stormcloaks were in no hurry to at least aid you in saying you're not with them, they were content for you to get executed. It might not of worked but it would of at least been something that you can't say "The Imperials didn't know" You can try use it against the Empire I suppose about being executed except the law isn't innocent until proven guilty, every province uses "Guilty until proven innocent" There isn't much in the way of legal aid in Skyrim anyway. In the Imperial City, legal counsel is available by persons like myself, but the provinces have no such system in place. Perhaps that will change in time. We can all hope so. - Legal Basics

This could be because Imperial influence doesn't extend heaps far out of Cyrodiil, other Provinces may be a part of the Empire but they rule their own lands and Imperial authority varies from Province to province. They were originally heading back to Cyrodiil but something made them change their plans to divert into Helgan. I think it may of been Tullius avoiding a Thalmor trap, there would be no way in hell they would let Ulfric face trial, they need him to continue the war. Tullius knows the Thalmor are stirring up trouble in Skyrim, they were pretty quick to show up in Helgan. You can see them there, more than likely trying to find a way to save Ulfric from losing his head, since they are aiding him and the Stormcloaks. When it comes to something the Thalmor are behind... I'm with the Empire execute them all, only way to make sure you end their little plans.

 

[Anouck]

How law actually works in all of Tamriel is rather cruel and backwardsl, Tamriel legal system has its basis in the civilized, reasonable credo uttered by the prophet Marukh in the first era: "All are guilty until they have proven themselves innocent." Were truer word ever spoke? - Legal Basics

Guilty until they have proven innocent is pretty unfair without even having a trial. There are no judges or lawyers in Skyrim. Maybe there is but I didn't see it in the game. It's a bit weird.

When it comes to something the Thalmor are behind... I'm with the Empire execute them all, only way to make sure you end their little plans.

That's true.. The Thalmor try to create a dichotomy (I don't know if dichotomy is the correct word) in the Empire by stirring up problems.

I joined the Legion because I think it is the best way to get rid of the Thalmor. Ulfric, in the position of High King, would probably violate the White Gold concordat and create another conflict with the Aldmeri Dominion.

 

[Emilian]

Guilty until they have proven innocent is pretty unfair without even having a trial. There are no judges or lawyers in Skyrim. Maybe there is but I didn't see it in the game. It's a bit weird.



That's true.. The Thalmor try to create a dichotomy (I don't know if dichotomy is the correct word) in the Empire by stirring up problems.

I joined the Legion because I think it is the best way to get rid of the Thalmor. Ulfric, in the position of High King, would probably violate the White Gold concordat and create another conflict with the Aldmeri Dominion.

I see

I also had this dilemma. But I joined the Imperials because being angry about the execution doesn't make Ulfric right. I don't agree with everything the Legion is doing but I think the Stormcloaks are dangerous for Skyrim's future. Therefor I won't join them.

But Skyrim was originally in hands of the Nords amirite? If that's true then why not favor the natives in this situation? As the Empire's invasion though, Ulfric is taking advantage of this situation and so claimed land. But without Ulfric, there is no point in joining the Imperials for they would have no rebellion to fight against

Nevertheless I think Ulfric is a true Nord inside though. On starting the game you get Nord sayings from him as:

"A last true Nord's thoughts should be of home"
"May we meet again in Sovngarde, brother"
"We're all brothes and sisters in binds now"

Correct me if I missed some.

I see no point for him to have faked that because if Alduin wouldn't have showed up, they'd all be dead (and we would have no game )

 

[Anouck]

But without Ulfric, there is no point in joining the Imperials for they would have no rebellion to fight against

I see your point but the Imperials were there long before Ulfric. And they would still be there without the Stormcloaks

 

[Seanu Reaves]

Nevertheless I think Ulfric is a true Nord inside though. On starting the game you get Nord sayings from him as:

"A last true Nord's thoughts should be of home"
"May we meet again in Sovngarde, brother"
"We're all brothes and sisters in binds now"

Correct me if I missed some.

I see no point for him to have faked that because if Alduin wouldn't have showed up, they'd all be dead (and we would have no game )

Those quotes were Ralof. And Alduin showed up to kill the Dragonborn.

No Ulfric means your intro wouldn't have been being in the back of a wagon...

 

[Emilian]

I see your point but the Imperials were there long before Ulfric. And they would still be there without the Stormcloaks

They would, but they would have just taken everything without anything major to fight against.

 

[Emilian]

Those quotes were Ralof. And Alduin showed up to kill the Dragonborn.

No Ulfric means your intro wouldn't have been being in the back of a wagon...

Oh crap thats true.. My mind must be half asleep as it is 2 AM here..
I should go to bed. Oh well.
(BTW you double posted )

 

[Seanu Reaves]

Yeah I am using my phone as WiFi so my internet is buggy as hell. Though I should be good for this post

 

[Emilian]

Yeah I am using my phone as WiFi so my internet is buggy as hell. Though I should be good for this post

You should
I was telling a lie all along.
And yeah I am using my phone too so it crashes on me sometimes which irritates the crap out of me.

 

[The Laoch]

I never see why people use this as a reason to join the Stormcloaks. Don't get me wrong; I understand the frustration. But the Imperials are the authorities in Skyrim. Blaming them for arresting people is the same thing as blaming the police for arresting people. The Stormcloaks don't toss people in prison because they are not the arm of the law.

But do the police find random people on the street, and they shoot them. they don't have a death warrant for you. Don't blame the captain too, you would think any good and smart imperial soldier would say " hey captain, we shouldn't kill a man we are not ordered to?"

 

[DrunkenMage]

But Skyrim was originally in hands of the Nords amirite? If that's true then why not favor the natives in this situation? As the Empire's invasion though, Ulfric is taking advantage of this situation and so claimed land. But without Ulfric, there is no point in joining the Imperials for they would have no rebellion to fight against

Empire isn't invading though, Skyrim joined General Talos during the Second Era then Cyrodiil and Skyrim conquered all of Tamriel together. Skryim joined the Empire before it was even the Third Empire so I would hardly call the Empire invaders. Skyrim is in the hands of the Nords, do you see any Non-Nord ruler in Skyrim? Any person with power in their politics that isn't a Nord and doesn't answer to the High King.

But do the police find random people on the street, and they shoot them. they don't have a death warrant for you. Don't blame the captain too, you would think any good and smart imperial soldier would say " hey captain, we shouldn't kill a man we are not ordered to?"

Except it isn't about finding a random person in the street, you were caught with Stormcloaks, you were mistaken for a Stormcloak which would accuse you of treason and insurrection. Lokir did ask the Stormcloaks to tell the Imperials you aren't with them because the punishment is death, he would of faced a fine or imprisonment for stealing a horse, except he was thought to be a Stormcloak. You have no real way to prove your innocence, you have nothing on you, the law is guilty until proven innocent, there for you are already guilty and can be killed. Adding to it that the Thalmor are behind the trouble in Skyrim, if I was in charge I would execute them all also, you don't play what if when it comes to things the Thalmor are behind, you end it and you end it quickly.

 

[Raijin]

Except it isn't about finding a random person in the street, you were caught with Stormcloaks, you were mistaken for a Stormcloak which would accuse you of treason and insurrection. Lokir did ask the Stormcloaks to tell the Imperials you aren't with them because the punishment is death, he would of faced a fine or imprisonment for stealing a horse, except he was thought to be a Stormcloak. You have no real way to prove your innocence, you have nothing on you, the law is guilty until proven innocent, there for you are already guilty and can be killed. Adding to it that the Thalmor are behind the trouble in Skyrim, if I was in charge I would execute them all also, you don't play what if when it comes to things the Thalmor are behind, you end it and you end it quickly.

The problem is the Imperials didn't give you the opportunity to prove your innocence. The Captain herself essentially told Hadvar to screw the list, and that you go to the block anyways. The Imperial supporters don't understand that this is a HUGE problem for us Stormcloak supporters, and this one of the major complaints we have against the Imperial legion in Skyrim. To go around slaughtering people without letting them prove themselves innocent is barbaric. It goes beyond humanity. It's flat out criminal. The Imperial legion went from being protagonist to being antagonist.

Any intellectual person would realize that perhaps Lokir isn't truly a Stormcloak when hes acting like a coward, and pleading for his dear life. You would think that the Imperials would realize that he isn't part of the Stormcloaks, and that he should only be fined/ and imprisoned for stealing the horse, but no they wand up murdering him without probable cause. If the Stormcloaks didn't back him up I'm certain that his family back in Rorikstead would've vouch for his innocence.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The problem is the Imperials didn't give you the opportunity to prove your innocence. The Captain herself essentially told Hadvar to screw the list, and that you go to the block anyways. The Imperial supporters don't understand that this is a HUGE problem for us Stormcloak supporters, and this one of the major complaints we have against the Imperial legion in Skyrim. To go around slaughtering people without letting them prove themselves innocent is barbaric. It goes beyond humanity. It's flat out criminal. The Imperial legion went from being protagonist to being antagonist.

Any intellectual person would realize that perhaps Lokir isn't truly a Stormcloak when hes acting like a coward, and pleading for his dear life. You would think that the Imperials would realize that he isn't part of the Stormcloaks, and that he should only be fined/ and imprisoned for stealing the horse, but no they wand up murdering him without probable cause. If the Stormcloaks didn't back him up I'm certain that his family back in Rorikstead would've vouch for his innocence.

You have to also factor in that the Imperials know the Thalmor are behind what is happening in Skyrim, the General knows, officers know. Your word doesn't mean that much when it comes to the larger picture. The head of the Thalmor in Skyrim showed up at Helgan. When they're snooping, you must be certain you end their plans.

This is one of the issues for Stormcloak supporters, small minded not looking the the larger picture, the Thalmor are behind the Civil war in Skyrim, they started stirring up trouble, they're aiding the Stormcloaks. Put yourself in the Legion's shoes, you have a bunch of prisoners that the Thalmor suddenly take a deep interest in, you know the Thalmor are behind the rebellion, you know the goal of the Thalmor is to destroy the Empire, now they're very interested in your prisoners, they don't want there to be an execution because it would harm their plans. The prisoners were originally being taken to Cyrodiil for trial but a slow moving prison transport several weeks from Cyrodiil? You really believe the Thalmor would simply let their plans come to an end because a very slow moving transport is very slowly getting away. Tullius is no fool, it is very clear the Thalmor were keeping a close eye on the transport because they made it to Helgan very quickly when the Legion suddenly diverted, they were waiting for Tullius, they exchanged some words though we couldn't hear them, no doubt it would of been about stopping the execution because they need Ulfric alive and distracting the Empire, making sure the Empire wastes resources and weakens their army on the Aldmeri Dominion border by sending in Legionnaires who are stationed on the border. The Legion in Skyrim has had to recruit locally because the Empire can't weaken their defenses too much.

"Most of the Legion is tied down on the border with the Aldmeri Dominion. The Emperor can't afford to risk weakening Cyrodiil's defenses. From the Imperial City, our war here is just a sideshow. An interlude before the main event against the Thalmor resumes." - Tullius

Ulfric: "Stop what? Taking Skyrim back from those who'd leave her to rot?"
Rikke: "You're wrong. Ulfric. We need the Empire. Without it Skyrim will assuredly fall to the Dominion."

Tullius: "You realize this is exactly what they wanted."
Galmar: "What who wanted?"
Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."

The Aldmeri Dominion is something that Skyrim cannot beat alone, they can't even face all out war with the Empire, yet they plan to attack the Aldmeri Dominion?

"We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's cousin is getting married! If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire. So we'll bide our time for now." - Ulfric Stormcloak

"First we'll kick the Thalmor and their bloody Imperial puppets out of the country. Then we'll rebuild Skyrim into the land she once was. When we are done with that, we will take our army to the Dominion, and show those pointy-eared bastards not every man is fit to be their slave." - Galmar Stone-Fist

"Because getting rid of the Empire was only half the problem. Soon, the elves will again seek to rule the world. We must ready ourselves to fight them. For it will be Skyrim that shall lead Tamriel in those dark days, when the fate of the world is finally determined." - Ulfric Stormcloak

The real threat is the Aldmeri Dominion and the only way to defeat that is if man is united, that will include Hammerfell which hopefully will be able to mend their relations with the Empire once more.

There can be no doubt that the current peace cannot last forever. The Thalmor take the long view, as is proved by the sequence of events leading up to the Great War. All those who value freedom over tyranny can only hope that before it is too late, Hammerfell and the Empire will be reconciled and stand united against the Thalmor threat. Otherwise, any hope to stem the tide of Thalmor rule over all of Tamriel is dimmed. - The Great War

You claim you like Tiber Septim, yet Stormcloaks are destroying his Empire, disbanding the Third Empire and thus ending the great Empire of Tiber Septim. Skyrim is not only strategically important to the Empire currently, it is also symbolic, Skyrim and Cyrodiil conquered Tamriel together, the removing of Skyrim is the real end of Tiber Septim's Empire.

"Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his Empire. And Torygg wasn't ready to let it fall apart." - Sybille Stentor