Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Raijin]

This clearly goes to show that Raijin will argue anything as long as he perceives that it supports his already mislead cause. Kodlak is the epitome of an honorable Nord and trying to slander him because he's a werewolf is outright fallacious.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

What kind of Skooma have you been drinking? The companions that Kodlak was supposedly in charge with was in a total mess. How can a guild be run without a leader? Kodlak himself said that hes nobody's boss. Perhaps if he quit mopping around all day feeling sorry for himself because he chosen to become a werewolf, and ran his guild like the Harbinger should be doing then perhaps he could break the cycle and ban the beast blood.

DrunkenMage regarding to Aela and Skjor conducting this ritual of the beast blood in secret if Kodlak was an honorable and decent man he should man up and throw these 2 idiots out of the companion guild, and ban them from entering Jorrvaskr. It was up to him as the Harbinger to put to end to this ritual, and to ban the practice, but no he kept it going. About Tsun's comment. I wonder what he thought of this man back when he had the beast blood? When he volunteered himself to become one with Hircine.

I still have a hair up my ass for being forced to turn into a werewolf. I guess that's why I do not respect this man as a leader nor an honorable "true" nord.

 

[DrunkenMage]

What kind of Skooma have you been drinking? The companions that Kodlak was supposedly in charge with was in a total mess. How can a guild be run without a leader? Kodlak himself said that hes nobody's boss. Perhaps if he quit mopping around all day feeling sorry for himself because he chosen to become a werewolf, and ran his guild like the Harbinger should be doing then perhaps he could break the cycle and ban the beast blood.

DrunkenMage regarding to Aela and Skjor conducting this ritual of the beast blood in secret if Kodlak was an honorable and decent man he should man up and throw these 2 idiots out of the companion guild, and ban them from entering Jorrvaskr. It was up to him as the Harbinger to put to end to this ritual, and to ban the practice, but no he kept it going. About Tsun's comment. I wonder what he thought of this man back when he had the beast blood? When he volunteered himself to become one with Hircine.

I still have a hair up my ass for being forced to turn into a werewolf. I guess that's why I do not respect this man as a leader nor an honorable "true" nord.

'While The Companions have not had a true leader since Ysgramor, the Harbinger acts as chief advisor, resolves disputes, and clarifies questions as to the nature of honor, although he (or she) never actually assumes direct control of the Companions. The Harbinger's word is respected not just within Jorrvaskr, but throughout all nine holds of Skyrim.'

'Ysgramor, the "harbinger of us all" and the only real recognized leader of the Companions.'

Ran his guild like a Harbinger? He does do that, he isn't the leader of the Companions, Ysgramor holds that title. It wasn't up to him to end anything The circle decides together, they all need to agree for it to end.

Kodlak mopping around? 'Legends of the Companions speak of Kodlak's many great feats, such as Kodlak and another Companion fighting off one hundred and one Orc berserkers.' The man is old and in his twilight years, but he does try to stop the beast blood, not by ordering because he can't order anyone around. He tries to get Farkas and Vilkas to stop doing the transformations while he searches for a cure.

This is very interesting a Pro stormcloak and "true" Nord hating on Kodlak, while a Pro Empire and Imperial defends the old man.

 

[Khaine]

"To Morrowind I went and unbound the heart from the hands of the Ash-King, to Cyrodiil I returned and shut closed the Marble Jaws, and before the Dragon's Head I stand tall in Skyrim, in the Empire's name. For it was an emperor that laid upon me the mantle of a god and I shall never forget his gift, regardless of the fools that inhabit his Imperial seat now. If anything I owe it to him to cleanse his empire and make it whole again. I owe Uriel Septim VII a Debt that shall preceed me until a death that will never come."- Hector Ciril (Baal), The Vampire

 

[Khaine]

Really? You're gonna bash Kodlak Whitemane? That man is a hero beyond any measure of words, regardless of the fact he has the beast blood in him (Which is no longer true as I tore it from his soul so he could be in a place worthy of him.) he is a fierce warrior who fell with honor in combat, even in his old age. The fact that he still has the strength to lift a weapon, much less don his armor, shows he is a true nord warrior.

 

[DrunkenMage]

When I was a Stormcloak supporter and would listen to the Heimskr in Whiterun, about the Elves do they take away your businesses, your homes, your very lives. After the stormcloak side I realised I had become what that Preacher was warning the people about. I took away business from Non nords, I took away the Homes of Jarls and their stewards even the Jarl who considered me his friend and directed me to the Grey Beards. I took more Nord lives than all the Thalmor in skyrim put together.

For what? Freedom of religion? How can we fight for that while we condemn the men of the reach for believing in different gods. That when they rebel they are madmen and hunted down like sport for bounties. Trying to push out Empire and anyone who doesn't want to get involved and remain neutral are considered enemies, what next? Anyone who doesn't worship certain gods? 'the Nordic pantheon of gods would be fused with the Aldmeri pantheon by Alessia into the Eight Divines' The Aldmeri and Nords seem to have a fair bit in common in terms of religion there.

Right to rule ourselves? That didn't work out so well last time when Nords killed each other over title. The war of succession, the Nordic empire was once vast, from Cyrodiil, Morrowind and High Rock the great First Empire of the Nords. Destroyed because they didn't like a Moot decision and the war lasted for 50 years. 'Before long, Skyrim was more divided than it had been in centuries.'

Sometimes you have to wonder what is so different to the Thalmor and the Stormcloaks? They both dislike other races. Hell even the Orcs in the Strongholds who do nothing wrong are hated by the Stormcloaks because "They are an affront to my people" The Stormcloak guard told me at Windhelm when telling me about the Stronghold nearby. They both ban religion on others. They both take people away and you never see them again. Thalmor have Northwatch, and Stormcloaks have the Jail mine run by the Silver-Bloods. They're both quite aggressive, Thalmor do attack you but the Stormcloak officers threaten you when you ask how do you join the stormcloaks. Where I believe they say you're either one or you aren't and if you aren't you best leave before things get ugly. There is no neutrality when it comes to the Stormcloaks.

 

[Khaine]

Agreed. Although I often find myself Murdering every Stormcloak, Thalmor, and Vigilant I see, then devouring their flesh and taking their helmets (Thalmor and Stormcloaks) and Amulets (vigilants) as Trophies. It's begun to be a wonderful past-time filled with blood, gore and lots of joy... for me anyway, though I agree! -casually begins eating the severed arm of a Thalmor Officer whilst Drinking the blood of a Freshly decapitated Stormcloak-

More to the point, my delicious-looking mortal companions, I feel that this war is an affront to your kin-ship, an attempt to sever your bonds of alliance so that some distasteful, though rather succulent, Aldmeri overlord can come in and rule the lot of you like a bunch of suckling pigs in a slop-house. Now, I dunno about you but I certainly won't allow some soft-minded elves with delusions of grandeur divide and destroy my most glorious supply of fresh meat and blood-wine, also known as the Empire.

Oh no, that will never do.

Albeit, I will also refuse some self-proclaiming true rulers of Skyrim to commit mass Genocide of my precious cattle. No, no, this certainly wouldn't be a viable solution to my most favored policy of, "all prey are created equal," thus I must disagree with their interests and whole-fully side with the Empire, for which I have and will always owe allegiance to. Trust me, you silly meat-bags, you really should join the empire. I would most-certainly prefer a warm meal to a cold one. Besides, what would Talos do? He'd probably preach about equality as he's wresting the lost territories from their respective leaders and then shake an index finger at those who fanatically worship him to the point that they feel the need to go and ruin my dinner plans, which in and of itself is an affront to Talos. I'm most certain he'd never want me to go hungry, now would he?

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

What kind of Skooma have you been drinking? The companions that Kodlak was supposedly in charge with was in a total mess. How can a guild be run without a leader? Kodlak himself said that hes nobody's boss. Perhaps if he quit mopping around all day feeling sorry for himself because he chosen to become a werewolf, and ran his guild like the Harbinger should be doing then perhaps he could break the cycle and ban the beast blood.

I'm not sure what you're thinking, as it was stated above Kodlak exerts no real power over the companions and the goal of the Harbinger has never been to. You're outright resorting to a baseless argument here with nothing but your misplaced opinions to show for facts. The entire Companions' quest revolves around eventually curing the Beast Blood and eventually Farkas and others follow Kodlak's curing. The man wanted to be cured because he made a mistake, he doesn't sit around "mopping" all day, he's an old man, he won't be doing the same things the others do.

DrunkenMage regarding to Aela and Skjor conducting this ritual of the beast blood in secret if Kodlak was an honorable and decent man he should man up and throw these 2 idiots out of the companion guild, and ban them from entering Jorrvaskr. It was up to him as the Harbinger to put to end to this ritual, and to ban the practice, but no he kept it going. About Tsun's comment. I wonder what he thought of this man back when he had the beast blood? When he volunteered himself to become one with Hircine.

Because the two were very close friends to Kodlak and he again has no power to ban or oust anybody. He is merely an advocant and any power he has was earned through respect.

I still have a hair up my ass for being forced to turn into a werewolf. I guess that's why I do not respect this man as a leader nor an honorable "true" nord.

You were never forced to do anything, that aside the irony here is that your idea of an honorable Nord is someone who practices mass execution and racial segregation.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[Seanu Reaves]

I still don't see why the Companions are brought up. Seeing as they are Neutral to a fault. They don't even fight during the battle of Whiterun. And if they did... I think more Stormcloaks would lay dead than from just my knives...

 

[Ru;indil]

The Companions have always been neutral during politics , except ol' Vignar. I don't find a reason as to why people brought them up.

On to the topic , I find it that Ulfric is simply blind to his own actions. He has banned the Forsworn from worshipping their gods and reclaming back their lands yet he fights for the free worship of Talos. What kind of man is he ?
Btw Raijin , the Emperor Titus Mede II isn't a coward. After the Battle of the Red Ring , the Legions were too exhausted to continue the battle anymore. Not to mention , he couldn't afford anymore more destruction of settlement and death of innocent populace , so he made a treaty with the Thalmor until the Legion unites the provinces and regain their strength then they can destroy the Dominion and ultimately the Thalmor. So what the Stormcloaks are doing right now , are inflaming more tension and distracting the Empire from its aim.

P.S : Don't bring up the honorable Kodlak Whiteman ever again in politics . He lived with regret and sadness.

 

[Ozan]

((Sorry to Grim about a delayed response. fluffing phone deleted me response. I'm too lazy to retype it, and a bit short on time. Instead, I'll just start some fires.))

So many Colovian supporters. Not all are fools, but some would defend a wasp nest should it be a Colovian nest.

Though some Stormcloak supporters are similar, Ozan feels not so much. Many were on the fence and were quite literally pushed over by Colovian mouth frothers. It drives one crazy, seeing words which one disagrees, blatantly claiming such words are incorrect, and supporting such claims by saying the Thalmor took the Emperor's dog hostage.

Everything seems indirectly blamed on the Aldmeri Elf type, and though Khajiit disagrees with the Raijin on some instances, he finds he agrees here. The Colovian indeed boasts a good boast, but to allow even as much as they do contradicts such words. To allow one is to damn many. The Stormcloak fights because fathers did not see a future for sons. Now the sons must fight.

So many claim the Colovian waits, becoming stronger, but Khajiit respects the Redguard immensely. Full of war stories, bragging often of time in the legion.

Such a shame their most loyal soldiers were sold to the Elf for the betterment of all. No negotiation to see if they could forsake a god but save a province. No patience to see if the Redguard, who have adopted tactics similar to the Stormcloak at this time Ozan believes, could overcome.

Though grim, Skyrim was never under real threat. Only Hammerfell and Cyrodiil, a testament to the Legion holding their ground in an expected surprise attack.

More propaganda by Ozan's ears. Another idle word to justify murder in Cyrodiil, Skyrim, Hammerfell, and High Rock.

But who cares? Certainly not the Elf who is granted any rights to murder any filthy pink-skinned human as they please, so long as they even SUSPECT Talos worship.

The Aldmeri needs no army to defeat the Empire, not when the Empire can destroy itself. Perfect strategy.

Ozan shall reask old questions. Why did the Empire not notice the reports of Blades were rather late? Why did the Empire not carry on a war and try to push for a draw rather than a defeat? To save lives? Whose lives? Certainly no Redguard nor suspected Talos worshippers. Was it REALLY a surprise if they knew? Why does the Empire suffer from poor foresight? Why do so many still support the Colovian when their mistakes are far more frequent? Because of Ulfric? Are you daft?

Cry some more, bleeding for a cause with no blood to bear. Perhaps such elaborate words may fool the Nord as the Elf has fooled the Colovian... but the wiser shall choose Stormcloak as the common folk are given no choice BUT to be Stormcloak. Ulfric murdered the High King. Many do not see it as such, but remind Khajiit why he should care when the Empire murders far more with less impressive titles?

All the blood spilled in Skyrim stains the hands of the Colovian. Perhaps it shall make the Empire's bread taste sweeter.

 

[Ross Blake]

Join The stormcloaks! and exact revenge for them trying to have off with your head!

 

[Ozan]

I do not support the Empire because I hate Ulfric. Rather, I respect Jarl Ulfric far more than most here. Instead, I support the Empire because I believe it is under the penumbra of their laws that greater justice will be done.

I do not deny the Empire's past and present failings. Even so, they are still the best chance to address the many grievances which you yourself have stated. Given the choices we have, I do not believe for one moment that you will find relief under Jarl Ulfric, and certainly not under the Dominion.

Jarl Ulfric was bitterly betrayed by a man who holds the throne in Markarth, and I sympathize with his desire for revenge. But to hold the future of so many in his hands as hostage to this unrelenting anger is not the mark of greatness. I would love him as kinsman because he is still in my mind a true Nord. But his heart is twisted by bitterness and he does not see the harm he causes. I cannot follow him. But I do not hate him. Rather, my commitment is forged in the fires of love. For the Empire -- which the god I worshipped fought for, killed for, and bled for. The Empire, which I still believe -- in the long run -- is the best hope for justice for all those who suffer oppression because the alternatives are unthinkable.

Rather than dance around and hint and speak with politesse, Ozan shall simply say this. His words were not for this one's ears. Ozan finds this Nord and the Female Imperial Legate and even that stalwart Mage who are worthy individuals, fully aware of the plight of the people. Ozan disagrees but will never judge.

With these words, Khajiit judges and deems and disfavors.

No, these words are not meant for the ears of the honorable. No, these words are not meant for the ones who speak. No, these words are not meant for those who fight because they must.

These words are for the scoundrels. The ones who bicker and insult and challenge and dismiss.

These words are for those who fight because they can against a people who cannot.

However, his words have reached your ears. Ozan neglected a very important proverb. Words are like sparrows. Once released, they may not be caught again.

Though unfortunate, Ozan shall carry on. Perhaps address the points here, albeit few.

Ozan does not view Ulfric as respectably as this one does. Rather, Khajiit tolerates him. Ozan's war is a war without end and without victory. When one is lost, sometimes it can prove helpful to explore. The people are shackled to the Empire and tormented by the Thalmor. Perhaps the people would suffer less with only one power rather than two.

Ulfric's cause brings much fear to kings, to jarls, to nobles, and thanes. Somewhat fitting, but perhaps not enough. The Empire and the Thalmor brings fear to families, to neighbors, to societies and commonfolk. Ozan thinks he would indeed prefer Stormcloak justice over Colovian law.

 

[Ozan]

I understand you when you say you have an audience in mind. But I wish to take this point, isolate it, sharpen it to a most dangerous edge, and temper it in a forge of reason. Perhaps more correctly, in a forge of feeling. (I am a Nord. We do not think so very well. But we feel strongly.)

I cannot dispute what you say here, in these few words.

Jarl Ulfric threatens the old order the way a mutiny threatens a ship at sea in gale. If you are a slave bound to the oars, do you follow the one who will free you, yet capsize the boat, or the one who will permit you perhaps to drown in your shackles while others live?

I feel strongly that there is a third way. But also that the Stormcloaks are, as their name suggests, such a destructive force, that this alternative may never be opened. I suppose you feel that it is, instead, precisely through this destructive force that such a third alternative will appear. Am I right?

An apt comparison. Free arms swim better than bound arms.

 

[Ozan]

I must concede the truth of this. Utmost respect for my friend, the Khajiit, if he may permit me to call him thus.

Such words would bring warmth to Khajiit. Ozan shall allow this. However, Khajiit felt there was more to be said and would very much like to hear any words concerning this hypothetical gale and mutiny.

 

[Ozan]

I suppose upon further reflection I should have posed my question thusly.

Jarl Ulfric threatens the old order the way a mutiny threatens a ship at sea in gale. If you are a slave bound to the oars, do you follow the one who will promise to free you, yet capsize the boat, or the one who will permit you perhaps to drown in your shackles while others live?

Regrettably, we lack the gift of foresight and we cannot know truly what is in the heart of another, or how even the most honorable course will turn out.

What Jarl Ulfric promises and what he delivers, are these the same?

I am reminded that only a fool rejoices in promises.

Ah, Ozan was somewhat late in hearing.

Though true, there is a single ounce of truth in this promise. Assuming the mutiny would succeed, one would be freed first. If one is to be enslaved after, at least there is fight, is struggle, is a chance.

If Ozan were to be enslaved after being released, then he would make a good topic of conversation as the biter and kicker.

 

[Gunnbjorn]

I hope whoever brought the Companions up wasn't a Stormcloak, because as much as I love you all, the Imperials absolutely fluffed us up on this argument.

Going into more focus on what Raijin and friends looked to be arguing about, I believe Kodlak is an honorable Nord, and deserves respect. As much as it pains me to disagree with my kinsman Raijin, the Imperials are right - Kodlak was not the leader of The Companions, he was the Harbinger.

However, as blunt as Raijin is coming off, I think I may vaguely see where he is coming from.

Kodlak made a mistake to become a werewolf, we know this because he shows regret when you speak to him - he wants to be a true Nord and go to Sovngarde.

Raijin's earlier statement of it being dishonorable for Kodlak to allow The Circle force lower-ranked members to become a werewolf is somewhat true, not every Nord wants to follow Nord tradition, everyone should have a right to worship whom they want, even if it is a Daedra, however, if Kodlak believed it was wrong, he should have exercised his valued words and told The Circle to stop forcing members to become Werewolves in order to become a higher rank within the Guild, because if you wanted to die a traditional Nord and wanted to be a Companion at the same time, you would have to remain at a lower rank.

So yes, I do believe that was what he was trying to say. Don't argue that I didn't quote anybody, because I am far too lazy right now to do such a thing.

In the meantime: Woo! 1000 posts! WOO!

 

[Ozan]

Much as I hate to cast aspersions upon a Jarl I respect, I fear, though, that in Jarl Ulfric's case, the Nords may be freed while, in the confusion, the Argonians and Khajiit are left rowing.

Seems no better than the Colovian ship. Atleast its a new journey.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

Seems no better than the Colovian ship. Atleast its a new journey.

Except the Colovians press for racial equality and stability, which is all completely observable in Oblivion. Ulfric does not.

 

[Ozan]

Except the Colovians press for racial equality and stability, which is all completely observable in Oblivion. Ulfric does not.

Really? And where was this pressing in Vvardenfell and Skyrim?

Where does this one think the slaves the Dunmer took came from?

And were there not Colovians who told Khajiit their lands were lost and they need to get over it in Khajiit city of Leyawiin?

Ozan disagrees entirely as this is but hearsay.

 

[Gunnbjorn]

Except the Colovians press for racial equality and stability, which is all completely observable in Oblivion. Ulfric does not.

Really? And where was this pressing in Vvardenfell and Skyrim?

Where does this one think the slaves the Dunmer took came from?

And were there not Colovians who told Khajiit their lands were lost and they need to get over it in Khajiit city of Leyawiin?

Ozan disagrees entirely as this is but hearsay.

Not to mention "Oblivion" was over 200 years ago, a lot may have changed. Especially with the Thalmor around.