Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Raijin]

The Greybeards are the right side.

No you're wrong.

If the Greybeard had it their way they would not allow nor help the Dragonborn to save the world against Alduin. They would watch the world get destroyed on top of their big mountain.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

The Greybeards are the right side.

No you're wrong.

If the Greybeard had it their way they would not allow nor help the Dragonborn to save the world against Alduin. They would watch the world get destroyed on top of their big mountain.

It was a joke. Meant to show that both sides of the Civil War are wrong without saying it directly. and you failed to understand.

 

[GhosrMiley98]

I chose stormcloaks because im a nord and it goes with my character but also because I feel the stormcloak cause is justified but I just dont trust Ulfric he seems to want the throne mre than anything else

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[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Here are the true winners of the civil War

 

[Raijin]

The Greybeards are the right side.

No you're wrong.

If the Greybeard had it their way they would not allow nor help the Dragonborn to save the world against Alduin. They would watch the world get destroyed on top of their big mountain.

It was a joke. Meant to show that both sides of the Civil War are wrong without saying it directly. and you failed to understand.

Joke or not the civil war was within the right. To stop the Thalmor from putting harms way against the Skyrim's people is to drive out any Imperial Influence. With the Imperials no longer in Skyrim and with without the protection from the Legion the remaining Thalmor forces are force out of the country.

It seems like a happy story now that people have their rights back to worship their god and that's why I'm pro Stromcloak.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

No you're wrong.

If the Greybeard had it their way they would not allow nor help the Dragonborn to save the world against Alduin. They would watch the world get destroyed on top of their big mountain.

It was a joke. Meant to show that both sides of the Civil War are wrong without saying it directly. and you failed to understand.

Joke or not the civil war was within the right. To stop the Thalmor from putting harms way against the Skyrim's people is to drive out any Imperial Influence. With the Imperials no longer in Skyrim and with without the protection from the Legion the remaining Thalmor forces are force out of the country.

It seems like a happy story now that people have their rights back to worship their god and that's why I'm pro Stromcloak.

And it was Ulfric's right to not break away just because Ulfric said so. Ulfric CHOSE to kill Torygg, not because it was right, but because he got sick of listening to people other than himself.

 

[Raijin]

It was a joke. Meant to show that both sides of the Civil War are wrong without saying it directly. and you failed to understand.

Joke or not the civil war was within the right. To stop the Thalmor from putting harms way against the Skyrim's people is to drive out any Imperial Influence. With the Imperials no longer in Skyrim and with without the protection from the Legion the remaining Thalmor forces are force out of the country.

It seems like a happy story now that people have their rights back to worship their god and that's why I'm pro Stromcloak.

And it was Ulfric's right to not break away just because Ulfric said so. Ulfric CHOSE to kill Torygg, not because it was right, but because he got sick of listening to people other than himself.

Torygg was too young and too privileged to be the proper ruler of Skyrim. His combat skills was below average by Nord standards. Ulfric Killed Torygg to prove to Skyrim How wretched the conditions were in Skyrim. Torygg's obsession with the Empire is made him a poor leader. Ulfric did right by killing him.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Joke or not the civil war was within the right. To stop the Thalmor from putting harms way against the Skyrim's people is to drive out any Imperial Influence. With the Imperials no longer in Skyrim and with without the protection from the Legion the remaining Thalmor forces are force out of the country.

It seems like a happy story now that people have their rights back to worship their god and that's why I'm pro Stromcloak.

And it was Ulfric's right to not break away just because Ulfric said so. Ulfric CHOSE to kill Torygg, not because it was right, but because he got sick of listening to people other than himself.

Torygg was too young and too privileged to be the proper ruler of Skyrim. His combat skills was below average by Nord standards. Ulfric Killed Torygg to prove to Skyrim How wretched the conditions were in Skyrim. Torygg's obsession with the Empire is made him a poor leader. Ulfric did right by killing him.

And does being "stronger" necessarily equal being the better ruler? Sometimes being diplomatic is better than being a military general.

Ulfric killed Torygg because he KNEW he could, not because of some moral high ground.

 

[Ivory]

Joke or not the civil war was within the right. To stop the Thalmor from putting harms way against the Skyrim's people is to drive out any Imperial Influence. With the Imperials no longer in Skyrim and with without the protection from the Legion the remaining Thalmor forces are force out of the country.

Spies would have a field day in your perfect story. Seriously, the Thalmor are the best when it comes to espionage. Ulfric himself was used. Kicking the Empire out does not equate to kicking out the Thalmor in the slightest. Nothing would stop the Thalmor from using their spies to keep Skyrim in poverty while on the surface they deal with the Empire.

The ONLY province I'd imagine the Thalmor having trouble taking over is Black Marsh.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Joke or not the civil war was within the right. To stop the Thalmor from putting harms way against the Skyrim's people is to drive out any Imperial Influence. With the Imperials no longer in Skyrim and with without the protection from the Legion the remaining Thalmor forces are force out of the country.

The ONLY province I'd imagine the Thalmor having trouble taking over is Black Marsh.

This. Mostly because of the Hist, and the fact that the marsh is deadly anything not Argonian.

 

[Raijin]

And does being "stronger" necessarily equal being the better ruler? Sometimes being diplomatic is better than being a military general.

Ulfric killed Torygg because he KNEW he could, not because of some moral high ground.

In the Nordic cultures, Yes. Being stronger is an equivalent in being a better ruler. Nords are fierce, strong and an enthusiastic warriors and many become warriors, soldiers and mercenaries. In their culture they abide by a sacred tradition, a Nordic tradition, that allows someone to challenge their king to a duel in legal combat to the death if they deem to be unworthy to rule, or show weaknesses. The winner becomes the new King once he gets the full support from the other Jarls and the Moot declares it.

Torygg was not diplomatic whatsoever. He was a mere a puppet king of the Empire addicted to Imperial coin, and being a military general helps a lot since you are technically the boss. It gives you far more experience in ruling a country. Kings don't just sit around and look pretty with their expensive jewelry and clothing that's paid for by the hard working citizens of the country. He is suppose to lead his armies in case if theirs war.

You know I would have no problem supporting the Imperials if I knew the leadership will go into the right set of hands. If Brina Merilis was to become queen of Skyrim under Imperial victory, I would support this... but handing over Skyrim to Elisif? The woman who is becoming far too friendly with the Thalmor by enjoying their luxury parties? No.

Like what Ulfric said: "We should risk letting those milkdrinkers put Thorryg's woman on the throne? She'll hand Skyrim over to the elves on a silver plate."

Ulfric is right no matter how pro Imperial you are... Elisif is a pawn to the Thalmor. Shes not only the puppet of the Empire, like her husband was, but shes being a puppet of the Thalmor! NOT GOOD FOR SKYRIM!

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

And does being "stronger" necessarily equal being the better ruler? Sometimes being diplomatic is better than being a military general.

Ulfric killed Torygg because he KNEW he could, not because of some moral high ground.

In the Nordic cultures, Yes. Being stronger is an equivalent in being a better ruler. Nords are fierce, strong and an enthusiastic warriors and many become warriors, soldiers and mercenaries. In their culture they abide by a sacred tradition, a Nordic tradition, that allows someone to challenge their king to a duel in legal combat to the death if they deem to be unworthy to rule, or show weaknesses. The winner becomes the new King once he gets the full support from the other Jarls and the Moot declares it.

Torygg was not diplomatic whatsoever. He was a mere a puppet king of the Empire addicted to Imperial coin, and being a military general helps a lot since you are technically the boss. It gives you far more experience in ruling a country. Kings don't just sit around and look pretty with their expensive jewelry and clothing that's paid for by the hard working citizens of the country. He is suppose to lead his armies in case if theirs war.

You know I would have no problem supporting the Imperials if I knew the leadership will go into the right set of hands. If Brina Merilis was to become queen of Skyrim under Imperial victory, I would support this... but handing over Skyrim to Elisif? The woman who is becoming far too friendly with the Thalmor by enjoying their luxury parties? No.

Like what Ulfric said: "We should risk letting those milkdrinkers put Thorryg's woman on the throne? She'll hand Skyrim over to the elves on a silver plate."

Ulfric is right no matter how pro Imperial you are... Elisif is a pawn to the Thalmor. Shes not only the puppet of the Empire, like her husband was, but shes being a puppet of the Thalmor! NOT GOOD FOR SKYRIM!

I understand some things, but Ulfric is far more power hungry than he lets on. I see that the reason he "challenged" torygg to a duel and killed him with a shout-stab combo was mainly because he got tired of being ignored and no one listening to him. To me, stopping the Moot until it is sure that he can win is breaking tradition so that tradition can prevail, which is an oxymoron. my opinion is that Civil War=Ulfric wanting attention.

 

[Frozen Nord]

You know I would have no problem supporting the Imperials if I knew the leadership will go into the right set of hands. If Brina Merilis was to become queen of Skyrim under Imperial victory, I would support this... but handing over Skyrim to Elisif? The woman who is becoming far too friendly with the Thalmor by enjoying their luxury parties? No.

Well... in the same line of thought, I'd be more open to joining the Stormcloaks if the leadership went into better hands. Definitely not any of the other Stormcloak Jarls, they're all extremely corrupt. Maybe.... Ralof for example. He was far more honorable and genuinely believed in the cause.

Or perhaps Asgeir Snow-Shod. He recognizes Ulfric for what he really is and is far more compassionate for the Imperials. If it came to another war with the Thalmor, I'm not completely convinced that Ulfric would care about defending Cyrodiil. Asgeir would. He's also be willing to rejoin the Empire if the White-Gold Concordant is rescinded. I don't think Ulfric would. But most people in Skyrim would want that. Even the many Stormcloaks say that the treaty is the real problem and that there wouldn't be an issue with the Empire otherwise. If an independent and empowered Skyrim declares war on the Dominion, they're going to need to coordinate with Cyrodiil to do it. And... I just don't see Ulfric doing that. He's too stubborn, loves power too much, and has too much hatred for the Empire. The Empire was forced under threat of death to sign the treaty. No one in the Empire likes the treaty. If they thought they could do it without being guaranteed to be killed, they'd abandon the treaty.

 

[Raijin]

I understand some things, but Ulfric is far more power hungry than he lets on. I see that the reason he "challenged" torygg to a duel and killed him with a shout-stab combo was mainly because he got tired of being ignored and no one listening to him. To me, stopping the Moot until it is sure that he can win is breaking tradition so that tradition can prevail, which is an oxymoron. my opinion is that Civil War=Ulfric wanting attention.

Ulfric is a typical politician. They're all power hungry. I'm not going to let that one effect my decision to support Ulfric. Torygg was power hungry (which is the reason why he kissed the Empire's ass) Elisif is power hungry and the list continues.

Can you not blame Ulfric for getting tired of being ignored? The Empire essentially gave the Thalmor free reign to stamp out Talos worship throughout the Empire under the WGC agreement. The Empire turned it's back against their own people to please their elven masters. The Emperor was so power hungry that instead of "retiring" he kept on ruling despite how terrible job that he did.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

I understand some things, but Ulfric is far more power hungry than he lets on. I see that the reason he "challenged" torygg to a duel and killed him with a shout-stab combo was mainly because he got tired of being ignored and no one listening to him. To me, stopping the Moot until it is sure that he can win is breaking tradition so that tradition can prevail, which is an oxymoron. my opinion is that Civil War=Ulfric wanting attention.

Ulfric is a typical politician. They're all power hungry. I'm not going to let that one effect my decision to support Ulfric. Torygg was power hungry (which is the reason why he kissed the Empire's ass) Elisif is power hungry and the list continues.

Can you not blame Ulfric for getting tired of being ignored? The Empire essentially gave the Thalmor free reign to stamp out Talos worship throughout the Empire under the WGC agreement. The Empire turned it's back against their own people to please their elven masters. The Emperor was so power hungry that instead of "retiring" he kept on ruling despite how terrible job that he did.

If you have to become the boss, or kill the boss, to get people to listen to you, you might not be cut out to rule. Ruling anything is more than simply being a strongest in a fight.

All Ulfric was meant to be was a warrior, not a king.

 

[Raijin]

I understand some things, but Ulfric is far more power hungry than he lets on. I see that the reason he "challenged" torygg to a duel and killed him with a shout-stab combo was mainly because he got tired of being ignored and no one listening to him. To me, stopping the Moot until it is sure that he can win is breaking tradition so that tradition can prevail, which is an oxymoron. my opinion is that Civil War=Ulfric wanting attention.

Ulfric is a typical politician. They're all power hungry. I'm not going to let that one effect my decision to support Ulfric. Torygg was power hungry (which is the reason why he kissed the Empire's ass) Elisif is power hungry and the list continues.

Can you not blame Ulfric for getting tired of being ignored? The Empire essentially gave the Thalmor free reign to stamp out Talos worship throughout the Empire under the WGC agreement. The Empire turned it's back against their own people to please their elven masters. The Emperor was so power hungry that instead of "retiring" he kept on ruling despite how terrible job that he did.

If you have to become the boss, or kill the boss, to get people to listen to you, you might not be cut out to rule. Ruling anything is more than simply being a strongest in a fight.

All Ulfric was meant to be was a warrior, not a king.

I don't fully think you understand the concept of the culture life of the Nords.

 

[Ivory]

I don't fully think you understand the concept of the culture life of the Nords.

You mean the old self destructive culture that was dying off until Ulfric glorified it as if it meant something? The Nords of old were warmongers who invaded the other provinces over and over and fought with the elves for all of time. As hadvar says

"Of course. Skyrim has always been part of the Empire. That doesn't mean I support everything the Empire's been doing lately, but Nords have never been fair-weather friends."

He will also explain about Elisif: "Ah, I forget you're new to Skyrim. Jarl Elisif, I should say, although only because she was married to Jarl Torryg when he was murdered. Ulfric murdered Torygg, you know. Walked right into his palace in Solitude and killed him. Shouted him to death, if you believe the stories. That's what started this whole war. The Empire couldn't ignore that. Once the jarls start killing each other, we're back to the bad old days."

 

[Rimfaxe96]

You know I would have no problem supporting the Imperials if I knew the leadership will go into the right set of hands. If Brina Merilis was to become queen of Skyrim under Imperial victory, I would support this... but handing over Skyrim to Elisif? The woman who is becoming far too friendly with the Thalmor by enjoying their luxury parties? No.

And who's saying that it will be Elisif who'll be chosen by the Moot? While she might have 'inherited' the crown from her husband, the fact that not even her own court is very fond of her should give enough space for doubts and therefore maybe another person.
Skyrim does in no way fully clearify matters of leadership on the Imperial side of this questline, so let's not just jump at conclusions and speculation.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

I don't fully think you understand the concept of the culture life of the Nords.

You mean a culture of warmongering and infighting? The reason the Moot was established in the first place? The reason that the Moot is being put off until ULFRIC is sure he will win it?

That culture? Because that culture nearly killed the Nords long ago.

 

[Raijin]

And who's saying that it will be Elisif who'll be chosen by the Moot? While she might have 'inherited' the crown from her husband, the fact that not even her own court is very fond of her should give enough space for doubts and therefore maybe another person.
Skyrim does in no way fully clearify matters of leadership on the Imperial side of this questline, so let's not just jump at conclusions and speculation.

The Imperials are backing up Elisif to be the next Queen of Skyrim and just because her court isn't very fond of her doesn't mean anything for as long as the Empire has a tight grip on her.

Tullius: "Tell me again, why I'm wasting men chasing after a fairy tale."
Rikke: "If Ulfric gets his hand on that crown, it won't be a fairy tale. It'll be a problem."
Tullius: "Don't you Nords put any stock in your own traditions? I thought the Moot chose the king. We're backing Elisif. When the Moot meets, they'll do the sensible thing."
Rikke: "Not everyone's agreed to the Moot. You've been here long enough to know that Nords aren't always sensible. We follow our hearts."
Tullius: "So what - Ulfric gets this crown and then suddenly he's High King?"
Rikke: "No, it's not as simple as that, but the Jagged Crown would be a potent symbol for his cause to rally around. But, if we found it first..."
Tullius: "And we gave it to Elisif?"
Rikke: "In the absence of the Moot, it would further legitimize her claim."
Tullius: "Perhaps... I'm entrusting you with what resources I can spare. But I'm warning you, if this turns out to be a waste of time and men..."
Rikke: "It won't be a waste."
Tullius: "Make sure you take the Auxiliary here. You can send him/her back when you get there and find nothing but old bones and cobwebs."
Rikke: "The Stonefist's no fool. He's found the Crown. But we'll get to it first."

You mean a culture of warmongering and infighting? The reason the Moot was established in the first place? The reason that the Moot is being put off until ULFRIC is sure he will win it?

That culture? Because that culture nearly killed the Nords long ago.

Not sure why you're calling them warmongers. Lore wise it's the Empire that loves causing wars. Tullius could of very well ended this civil war with the important information that he has against the Thalmor, but he kept on going until he was in an vulnerable position where hes pleading for his life. The Emperor lead many people to their deaths because he decided to not listen to his Generals reading to the lack of strength in his military power. At the end he finally agreed to a treaty that was presented to him prior to the war.