Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Jeremius]

A Nord doesn't think that way. A True Nord would rather die than surrender and allow himself to be paraded around on a cart, gagged and bound. Course... this wasn't Ulfric's first time at that game but I digress.

He has experience with that sort of thing. It doesn't change the fact that he was thinking long term and being strategic. Even Ralof says it.
Ralof: They wouldn't dare give him a trial. Treason, for fighting for your own people. All of Skyrim would see the truth then

Forget about a "fair trial". He blew that opportunity when he refused to allow the moot to meet.

Killing High Torygg was a Declaration of War against the Empire plain and simple from that moment onwards. Because of, once again, Ulfric's actions, the Empire was forced to declare martial law in Skyrim. That means, summary executions or whatever is necessary to restore order and civility.

Ulfric did not deserve any fair trial, he committed High Treason FIRST against his country and then of course, against the Empire.

I have no sympathy for him. He has himself to blame.

You all still talking about it? it means nothing. Ulfric's actions are subjective. I think it was weak and cowardly. Stormcloaks think it was "right" and "strategic". End of discussion.

 

[Vatonage]

Ironic when a Stormcloak speaks in long term when in the end, the "defeat" of the Empire is a short term outcome.

If they win, Empire eventually goes to war with the Dominion while Skyrim licks their wounds to recover.

1. Empire wins, takes back Summerset, Hammerfell, Elswyre and Valenwood plus with High Rock and Cyrodill VS Skyrim, Cyrodiil wins and Boom, Talos worship all you want.

2. Thalmor win, same situation except now the Thalmor take over skyrim instead and guess what? you still lose your Talos worship.

Are you so convinced that all Imperials actually still believe in Talos being a God? Many are convinced that he was just a good Emperor, nothing more.

 

[Vatonage]

You all still talking about it? it means nothing. Ulfric's actions are subjective. I think it was weak and cowardly. Stormcloaks think it was "right" and "strategic". End of discussion.

We are doomed by Bethesda to argue for eternity. The Stormcloaks Vs Imperials debate is condemned to never end!

 

[Jeremius]

Ironic when a Stormcloak speaks in long term when in the end, the "defeat" of the Empire is a short term outcome.

If they win, Empire eventually goes to war with the Dominion while Skyrim licks their wounds to recover.

1. Empire wins, takes back Summerset, Hammerfell, Elswyre and Valenwood plus with High Rock and Cyrodill VS Skyrim, Cyrodiil wins and Boom, Talos worship all you want.

2. Thalmor win, same situation except now the Thalmor take over skyrim instead and guess what? you still lose your Talos worship.

Are you so convinced that all Imperials actually still believe in Talos being a God? Many are convinced that he was just a good Emperor, nothing more.

Many people on both sides are like the BoS from Fallout. blind zealots without a hint of truth.

You all still talking about it? it means nothing. Ulfric's actions are subjective. I think it was weak and cowardly. Stormcloaks think it was "right" and "strategic". End of discussion.

We are doomed by Bethesda to argue for eternity.

You have a choice. Move on and find something else to debate over.

 

[Ivory]

Are you so convinced that all Imperials actually still believe in Talos being a God? Many are convinced that he was just a good Emperor, nothing more.

Provide me evidence that states most imperials do not consider Talos a God when its the Imperial system that labeled Talos as such.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

He has experience with that sort of thing. It doesn't change the fact that he was thinking long term and being strategic. Even Ralof says it.
Ralof: They wouldn't dare give him a trial. Treason, for fighting for your own people. All of Skyrim would see the truth then

Ironic when a Stormcloak speaks in long term when in the end, the "defeat" of the Empire is a short term outcome.

If they win, Empire eventually goes to war with the Dominion while Skyrim licks their wounds to recover.

1. Empire wins, takes back Summerset, Hammerfell, Elswyre and Valenwood plus with High Rock and Cyrodill VS Skyrim, Cyrodiil wins and Boom, Talos worship all you want.

2. Thalmor win, same situation except now the Thalmor take over skyrim instead and guess what? you still lose your Talos worship.

Hold on a "UNITED EMPIRE" with 4 provinces 2 of which being the of utmost pristine warrior races didn't stand a snowballs chance in Hell against the Dominion the first time around. NOW you think a weakened Empire will SOMEHOW be able to take back Alinor, Hammerfell, Elsweyr and Valenwood. Tell me how that works please. And at least if The Stormcloaks win I get the taste of freedom for a little while.

 

[Vatonage]

Provide me evidence that states most imperials do not consider Talos a God when its the Imperial system that labeled Talos as such.

Look at the Imperial Jarls, the last one of them that actually held him close is dead! He will be forgotten if the Nords do not honor him!

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

A Nord doesn't think that way. A True Nord would rather die than surrender and allow himself to be paraded around on a cart, gagged and bound. Course... this wasn't Ulfric's first time at that game but I digress.

He has experience with that sort of thing. It doesn't change the fact that he was thinking long term and being strategic. Even Ralof says it.
Ralof: They wouldn't dare give him a trial. Treason, for fighting for your own people. All of Skyrim would see the truth then

Forget about a "fair trial". He blew that opportunity when he refused to allow the moot to meet.

Killing High Torygg was a Declaration of War against the Empire plain and simple from that moment onwards. Because of, once again, Ulfric's actions, the Empire was forced to declare martial law in Skyrim. That means, summary executions or whatever is necessary to restore order and civility.

Ulfric did not deserve any fair trial, he committed High Treason FIRST against his country and then of course, against the Empire.

I have no sympathy for him. He has himself to blame.

You don't need to. If Ulfric was denied the right to even SPEAK I guarantee at least part of Imperial Skyrim will be a little outraged that they deny a Nords rights like that. Regardless of any "High Treason".

 

[Jeremius]

He has experience with that sort of thing. It doesn't change the fact that he was thinking long term and being strategic. Even Ralof says it.
Ralof: They wouldn't dare give him a trial. Treason, for fighting for your own people. All of Skyrim would see the truth then

Ironic when a Stormcloak speaks in long term when in the end, the "defeat" of the Empire is a short term outcome.

If they win, Empire eventually goes to war with the Dominion while Skyrim licks their wounds to recover.

1. Empire wins, takes back Summerset, Hammerfell, Elswyre and Valenwood plus with High Rock and Cyrodill VS Skyrim, Cyrodiil wins and Boom, Talos worship all you want.

2. Thalmor win, same situation except now the Thalmor take over skyrim instead and guess what? you still lose your Talos worship.

Hold on a "UNITED EMPIRE" with 4 provinces 2 of which being the of utmost pristine warrior races didn't stand a snowballs chance in Hell against the Dominion the first time around. NOW you think a weakened Empire will SOMEHOW be able to take back Alinor, Hammerfell, Elsweyr and Valenwood. Tell me how that works please. And at least if The Stormcloaks win I get the taste of freedom for a little while.

You do realize that the Empire was caught off-guard last time, right? this time around, they know what is going to happen.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Are you so convinced that all Imperials actually still believe in Talos being a God? Many are convinced that he was just a good Emperor, nothing more.

Provide me evidence that states most imperials do not consider Talos a God when its the Imperial system that labeled Talos as such.

A ton of Imperials or Imperial Nords have completely forgotten about him either by fear of persecution or by reason. Elisif is an example of this.

 

[Vatonage]

You do realize that the Empire was caught off-guard last time, right? this time around, they know what is going to happen.

Like the invasion after they quell the Rebellion?
The Thalmor will no doubt take advantage of their post war vulnerability!

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Ironic when a Stormcloak speaks in long term when in the end, the "defeat" of the Empire is a short term outcome.

If they win, Empire eventually goes to war with the Dominion while Skyrim licks their wounds to recover.

1. Empire wins, takes back Summerset, Hammerfell, Elswyre and Valenwood plus with High Rock and Cyrodill VS Skyrim, Cyrodiil wins and Boom, Talos worship all you want.

2. Thalmor win, same situation except now the Thalmor take over skyrim instead and guess what? you still lose your Talos worship.

Hold on a "UNITED EMPIRE" with 4 provinces 2 of which being the of utmost pristine warrior races didn't stand a snowballs chance in Hell against the Dominion the first time around. NOW you think a weakened Empire will SOMEHOW be able to take back Alinor, Hammerfell, Elsweyr and Valenwood. Tell me how that works please. And at least if The Stormcloaks win I get the taste of freedom for a little while.

You do realize that the Empire was caught off-guard last time, right? this time around, they know what is going to happen.

doesn't change the fact that they're still weak as plops. If they hope to have any chance at all they better prepare for a defensive front rather than an offensive.

 

[Jeremius]

You do realize that the Empire was caught off-guard last time, right? this time around, they know what is going to happen.

Like the invasion after they quell the Rebellion?

Like the next Great War. They have men on the Dominion's border right now. The last Great War, they only had bits and pieces, certainly not enough to produce real threat from nothing at the time.

 

[Ivory]

Look at the Imperial Jarls, the last one of them that actually held him close is dead! He will be forgotten if the Nords do not honor him!

Every Jarl is a Nord. Look at Oblivion and Morrowind, most if not everyone in the Empire accepts Talos as a God. In the events of Skyrim, just because they don't say it outright, doesn't mean they don't worship Talos. Jarl Balgruuf secretly worships Talos as mentioned by his Son Nelkir during the Whispering Door quest.

Hold on a "UNITED EMPIRE" with 4 provinces 2 of which being the of utmost pristine warrior races didn't stand a snowballs chance in Hell against the Dominion the first time around. NOW you think a weakened Empire will SOMEHOW be able to take back Alinor, Hammerfell, Elsweyr and Valenwood. Tell me how that works please. And at least if The Stormcloaks win I get the taste of freedom for a little while.

I gave two outcomes. If the Empire defeats the Thalmor, you still get what you want. If the Thalmor win, You just slaughtered your brothers and sisters for temporary freedom that means nothing because now the Thalmor will unravel Nirn and end the world.

 

[Jeremius]

Hold on a "UNITED EMPIRE" with 4 provinces 2 of which being the of utmost pristine warrior races didn't stand a snowballs chance in Hell against the Dominion the first time around. NOW you think a weakened Empire will SOMEHOW be able to take back Alinor, Hammerfell, Elsweyr and Valenwood. Tell me how that works please. And at least if The Stormcloaks win I get the taste of freedom for a little while.

You do realize that the Empire was caught off-guard last time, right? this time around, they know what is going to happen.

doesn't change the fact that they're still weak as pl***. If they hope to have any chance at all they better prepare for a defensive front rather than an offensive.

They were only "weak" because they got caught off-guard and were not able to prepare. IF that is weakness, then any country can be weak.

 

[Vatonage]

Like the next Great War. They have men on the Dominion's border right now. The last Great War, they only had bits and pieces, certainly not enough to produce real threat from nothing at the time.

How much stock could you possibly put into that battered Empire? If another wave of poor leadership hits it, its done.

 

[Jeremius]

Like the next Great War. They have men on the Dominion's border right now. The last Great War, they only had bits and pieces, certainly not enough to produce real threat from nothing at the time.

How much stock could you possibly put into that battered Empire? If another wave of poor leadership hits it, its done.

I am just stating the truth.

 

[Vatonage]

They were only "weak" because they got caught off-guard and were not able to prepare. IF that is weakness, then any country can be weak.

You can't prepare for everything, and they should be able to respond in some form for sudden invasions. Its the damn Thalmor, they should always be suspicious.

 

[LegateFasendil]

He has experience with that sort of thing. It doesn't change the fact that he was thinking long term and being strategic. Even Ralof says it.
Ralof: They wouldn't dare give him a trial. Treason, for fighting for your own people. All of Skyrim would see the truth then

Ironic when a Stormcloak speaks in long term when in the end, the "defeat" of the Empire is a short term outcome.

If they win, Empire eventually goes to war with the Dominion while Skyrim licks their wounds to recover.

1. Empire wins, takes back Summerset, Hammerfell, Elswyre and Valenwood plus with High Rock and Cyrodill VS Skyrim, Cyrodiil wins and Boom, Talos worship all you want.

2. Thalmor win, same situation except now the Thalmor take over skyrim instead and guess what? you still lose your Talos worship.

Hold on a "UNITED EMPIRE" with 4 provinces 2 of which being the of utmost pristine warrior races didn't stand a snowballs chance in Hell against the Dominion the first time around. NOW you think a weakened Empire will SOMEHOW be able to take back Alinor, Hammerfell, Elsweyr and Valenwood. Tell me how that works please. And at least if The Stormcloaks win I get the taste of freedom for a little while.

No, no, no, :/

No. Just no.

That's not the plan. I can tell you've never had to take a trip to the Recovery wing in a hospital or have never had to recover from some severe, debilitating injury yourself.

It doesn't and will not work that way. The Empire has to take small steps until it can run again. Right now, Empire is in ER fighting a shot to the stomach by Ulfric.

It can still recover but only if the Imperials act fast.

You have to understand how a recovery works and you will almost NEVER go back to full strength in a timely manner.

 

[Jeremius]

They were only "weak" because they got caught off-guard and were not able to prepare. IF that is weakness, then any country can be weak.

You can't prepare for everything, and they should be able to respond in some form for sudden invasions. Its the damn Thalmor, they should always be suspicious.

Even Skyrim can fall to a sudden invasion. Is Skyrim thus weak for it?