Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

  • Welcome to Skyrim Forums! Register now to participate using the 'Sign Up' button on the right. You may now register with your Facebook or Steam account!

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
No, no, no. You're admitting guilt but denying the crime. Obviously, for Ulfric to bring down Markarth and subdue that hold he had to have a strong army with him. If he can bring down a hold then he could have helped Hammerfell and that one reason why she's pissed at him ~ The Bear.

I already said the Nords didn't aid Hammerfell, Nords as a whole. She isn't pissed at Ulfric Stormcloak, she says the sleeping bear of skyrim awakens now that the Empire has abandoned them.

She isn't talking about Ulfric, but the Nords who now are fighting against the Empire. The Bear is an analogy, which is the symbol of the rebellion, symbol of those Nords fed up with the Empire.

If he could take back one city... he can suddenly help Hammerfell? How do you even make the connection from taking one city in your homeland, to fighting in another province?

They were just a militia.

Ulfric didn't have an army until 4E 201, when he killed High King Torygg. That is when he got a lot of support, so where is getting the soldiers to fight in another province?



Hey dude, I want to wish you the best before I leave. You're alright man, perhaps a little confused but you're alright. I hope you do get all this sorted out and somewhere along the lines realized you're still an Imperial but whatever man, it's all good.

Stormcloaks have a point too. Believe me, there were times when I had to rebel, like I'm doing now. I dunno... it's just... something about this Empire seems different for me. I don't see them as being all that bad really.

Well whatever. I'm outtie. Alright... deep breath... we're going to try this again.


*PEACE*
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Hey dude, I want to wish you the best before I leave. You're alright man, perhaps a little confused but you're alright. I hope you do get all this sorted out and somewhere along the lines realized you're still an Imperial but whatever man, it's all good.

Stormcloaks have a point too. Believe me, there were times when I had to rebel, like I'm doing now. I dunno... it's just... something about this Empire seems different for me. I don't see them as being all that bad really.

Well whatever. I'm outtie. Alright... deep breath... we're going to try this again.


*PEACE*

That didn't answer the question.

Where is Ulfric getting an army to aid Hammerfell? He didn't have the forces needed to wage full rebellion until 4E 201, nor did he have political support. So where are the forces, and supplies coming from?

You have no idea how long Ulfric was in prison, he mentions "When finally set free" so obviously he was in jail for sometime. So how could he lead a group of militia into Hammerfell from his cell?

Also if he did fight in Hammerfell, how would he sustain his fight there? He would be in open violation of the peace, his city would be taken from him while he was elsewhere. The Empire dropped en entire province because they refused peace...

So how does your mind believe that Ulfric, just a son of a Jarl at the time. Would be able to break this peace, without any punishment?
 

Mirrored

Member
No, no, no. You're admitting guilt but denying the crime. Obviously, for Ulfric to bring down Markarth and subdue that hold he had to have a strong army with him. If he can bring down a hold then he could have helped Hammerfell and that one reason why she's pissed at him ~ The Bear.

...You do realize that there is a -huge- difference between the numbers and supplies needed to drive the ill-equipped Forsworn from a single city and fighting against the Dominion in an entirely different province, right?



Nope. And it's not me, it's the Redguards. Could you imagine their situation? Being abandoned and then probably, the only one who might could help even a little abandones them to?

I mean seriously. The Empire thru the Jarl turned to Ulfric for help. Obviously, he was a major player.

So, there is no difference at all between evicting an ill-equipped group of fanatics from a -single- city, and waging war against the well-trained and well-equipped army of the Aldmeri Dominion in Hammerfell? Really? If you honestly think that, there is no point in arguing with you.

As for the Redguard's opinion of Ulfric and the Nords, your only piece of evidence is from the journal of an insane necromancer who wants to use an army of draugr to destroy the Empire. Amazing.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
As for the Redguard's opinion of Ulfric and the Nords, your only piece of evidence is from the journal of an insane necromancer who wants to use an army of draugr to destroy the Empire. Amazing.

Don't you know? To Nenalata one person = an entire race's opinion.

Guess Nazeem also represents all Redguards. Does this mean those snobby merchants on their way to the royal wedding represent all Imperials?

An Argonian Thief? Obviously represents every Argonian, cause that is true logic. Supported by facts!
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
...Yes, that completely explains how an imprisoned man and an army that didn't exist could have saved Hammerfell from the Thalmor. You win, Nenalata. You win.


82e374ba82122221ce880d1cce5a540c9d30e19df7db1a6f985670c50a021f41.jpg


NENALATA fails to see that the argument is lost, and those who actually KNOW the lore have won it, or this is done in admittance of failure.

I should know, as I have done the same thing when I lost debates (that is, change the topic or post something unrelated to the debate).
 

Anouck

Queen of Procrastination
lmao - Oh no you're right. Shhh leave the higher level thinking to us. Go back to sleep. The world is flat.
Really, Nena? Are we going to throw personal attacks now? I don't know who the 'us' is you keep referring to, but it must be voices in your head since no one agrees with you here. Also, if there's one thing I hate it's when people act condescending. Especially when they have no reason for it. iPag has been around way longer than you, and she was in this thread before your account was even created.

The only one not capable of higher level thinking - or just thinking at all - is you so far. You are proven wrong, yet are too stubborn or proud to acknowledge that. So what do you do? You cry victim like people are teaming up against you and throw personal insults. Act like an adult. It's sad an 18 year old needs to tell you that.

I am a Scientist (from my degree field). Every major discovery begins with a theory that leads to a conjecture and the more that conjecture yields fruit, the more relevant it becomes until it is fact.
I don't care what you are. You could be the pope and it wouldn't matter to me. You treat people with respect - period. And if people are right, they're right. You can't change that by throwing in people's faces which diplomas you have.

Also, are you really a scientist? A person who is proven wrong over and over and over again but instead of accepting that thinks everyone is teaming up against her?

I reserve the right to have whatever theories I wish and should they produce results, who are you to say it's wrong just because it's a theory?
She can, because she provided evidence. You did not. She wins - you lose. She's right - you're wrong. Deal with it. You come in here and say inaccurate things, then people call you out on it and instead of admitting your mistakes you run back to your right of freedom of speech. Yes, you can say whatever you want. But that does not make it any more accurate. You're wrong, Nena.

So what's your deal? Are you a Communist? A Socialist perhaps?

I'm not alone, others feel the same way and you're wrong because my pl*pss backed up by lore. And you can't do nothing about it except sit there and spew acid at me.

You are alone. Who else in here is supporting you? And what lore backed up your point? You didn't show it so far. I start to think you didn't because it simply is not there.

Also, so far you are the only one spitting acid. How dare you, after saying the things you said, accusing her of that?

I also don't see how communism or socialism has anything to do with this whatsoever.


Keep clapping. You haven't disproved (1) argument and you can't. Is that a Burger King hat?

She countered all your arguments. Maybe you like to tell yourself something else, but it's true.

Stop throwing those damn personal insults, and act like an adult. If you are really so damn right, then why don't you tell us why instead of acting condescending? I don't know if you're aware of this, but the only person you make look dumb with your condescending remarks is yourself. And you're doing a real good job so far, I can tell you.
 

Epic Keith

By Ysmir you're going to FREEZE to death!
Completely unrelated but this is what has been happening in this thread for the past couple of years.
funny-avengers-gif-loki-huaaagh.gif


funny-avengers-gif-loki-huaaagh2.gif


AND ALL HAIL THE STORMCLOAKS! :D
 

Dram

the Dunmer
The Ayleids, or Heartland High Elves, ruled Cyrodiil in the long ages of Myth before the beginning of recorded history. One of the earliest recorded dates, in fact, is the Fall of White Gold Tower in 1E 243, which is commonly assumed to mark the end of the Ayleids.
Although Ayleid rule over all of Cyrodiil was indeed broken in 1E 243, this was only one of the most obvious stages near the end of a long decline. The first two centuries of the First Era saw increasing strife between the great Ayleid lords of Cyrodiil. Alessia appears to have taken advantage of a period of civil war to launch her uprising. Imperial historians have traditionally attributed her victory to intervention from Skyrim, but it appears that she had at least as much help from rebel Ayleid lords during the siege of White Gold Tower.
The popular image of the Ayleids as brutal slavemasters is based in fact, of course, but it is less well-known that a number of Ayleid princes continued to rule parts of Cyrodiil after 263, as vassals of the new Empress of Cyrodiil. This suggests either that Ayleid rule was not universally detested, or that Alessia and her successors were more pragmatic than is traditionally believed, or perhaps some of both.
In any event, excavations at a number of Ayleid sites show continued occupation and even expansion during the so-called Late Ayleid Period (1E 243 - c. 498). At first, many Ayleid lords continued to rule as vassals of the new human regime. In some cases, Ayleid supporters of Alessia were even rewarded with new lands taken from slain enemies. It is not clear to what extent human slavery continued under the Cyrodilic Empire. Humans continued to dwell in the Ayleid-ruled areas of Cyrodiil, but there is nothing definitive to show under what terms.
This was an uneasy relationship from the beginning, and was not destined to last long. Resentment at the continued presence of Ayleid nobles within the Empire was a contributing factor to the rise of the so-called Alessian Order founded by Marukh. The first victims of the Alessians were the Ayleids of Cyrodiil. In the early 300s, the surviving Ayleid communities in human-ruled areas were obliterated one by one, the refugees temporarily swelling the power of the remaining Ayleid lordships.
Then in 361, the Alessians gained control of the Empire and enforced the Alessian Doctrines throughout its domain. The Ayleid lordships were abolished. Enforcement of this decree does not appear to have required much direct violence -- it seems that by this point the balance of power was so overwhelmingly against them, and their fate so long foreshadowed, that most of the remaining Ayleids simply left Cyrodiil, eventually being absorbed into the Elven populations of Valenwood and High Rock. Indeed, the rise of the Direnni Hegemony may be linked to this exodus of Ayleids from Cyrodiil (a connection so far little studied by historians).
Still, a remnant Ayleid population seems to have survived the rule of the Alessians, because we hear of "the last king of the Ayleids", one called 'Nenalata', joining the Battle of Glenumbria Moors where the Dirennis decisively defeated the Alessians in 482. How this king's people survived the preceding century is unknown. We do not even know who they were, although recent research points to Nenalata as the possible resting place of this "last king." Unfortunately, in the current state of the Empire, funds are no longer available for proper scientific investigation of such extensive ruins, so the answer to these questions will have to be left to future generations.


images


"Nenalata, can you show us lore that proves Ulfric should've aided Hammerfell?"
"SUUUURE! Here you have a random piece of text in which the names 'Ulfric' and 'Hammerfell' are not even mentioned!"

EjJ1Z9k.gif
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage

Rimfaxe96

Well-Known Member
I'm actually (---) close of becoming an Aldmeri Dominion supporter.

Not sure if this counts as accurate lore but this makes sense to me, and I support it considering the fact to what I've been exposed to in Skyrim.

"I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims.

The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake.

Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines.

Stand with us. - Queen Ayrenn"

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en-uk/game-guide/alliances/aldmeri-dominion

And how do we know that her intent is really just care, or that she's just pissed off about being tortured and now wants revenge?
And there are plenty of examples where elves or cats did not act like those oh so wise and clever beings they always sell themselves as.

Unless if I see actual facts that the Aldmeri Dominion approves of such brutal method that the Thalmor are doing I can't actually shove the blame finger at the A.D.

Look up Ondolemar's dialogue, somewhere it says that they're the ruling body of the Aldmeri Dominion. The old AD wasn't that bad at all, but the new one under total control of the "new" Thalmor is as bad as a government could be. Ethnic cleansing, terrible wars and chasing after the citizenry paired with interrogators who probably were trained at Guantanamo.
 

Mirrored

Member
Honestly, the Aldmeri Dominion would have a case if it wasn't for the genocidal tendencies of the Thalmor. During their rise to power, they purged the Summerset Isles of all non-mer races and assassinated anyone who spoke against them after destroying their reputation. Since then, they've enacted several violent purges to drive out dissidents. And of course, let's not forget that their vehement hatred of Tiber Septim led to the mass religious persecution of those who would claim he became Talos.

It'd be one thing if they just wanted to establish elven rule over Tamriel. But they want Altmer to dominate every other race, including other elves.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
I am a Scientist (from my degree field). Every major discovery begins with a theory that leads to a conjecture and the more that conjecture yields fruit, the more relevant it becomes until it is fact.

I reserve the right to have whatever theories I wish and should they produce results, who are you to say it's wrong just because it's a theory?

Many great discoveries of our time began as theories. Some people were even murdered over them.

I find it hard to believe that you're a real scientist (You can be anything on the internet) base on the fact that you're incapable of accepting defeat due to the substantial amount of evidence that is being backed up by the lore written by Bethesda themselves. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge cold hard facts from the folks here even proves that you're not a scientist at all.

Keep telling yourself that, Ragina.


If you're a real scientist then how come you're not using your science skills to explain to us how Ulfric could of saved an entire province of Hammerfell from the Thalmor while hes in jail? The Stormcloaks did not exist back then. Do you truly expect Ulfric to just reach from his butt and produce a massive amount of army just like that?
 
Top