Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

and a unified Skyrim will be what the Thalmor fear. Do not forget, they do not want a stormcloak victory either. If they wanted to weaken the Empire, they would not want the war to go on like it is. They want the War to go on, because a unified Nord people would kill them all.

No. The Thalmor want to avoid a Stormcloak victory, so they carefully manage indirect aid to the Stormcloaks. An Imperial victory harms their overall position.

The Thalmor want the war to go on like it does, because it weakens the Empire, it weakens Skyrim. Though perhaps you should explain why you believe a bunch of poorly trained Stormcloaks who can't reach the Aldmeri Dominion, are what the Thalmor fear.

Plus, I doubt Ulfric waited until the legions went south. this has been going on long before Ulfric became Jarl of Windhelm. He just united the rebels.

Ulfric Stormcloak is the rebellion, it didn't start until the death of High King Torygg a little while after the Moot named him High King. The rebellion itself didn't happen until the death of Torygg, while the birthplace of the rebellion was the Markarth Incident.

"Ulfric founded the Stormcloaks years ago, as a sort of private army to advance his ambitions. He's always used the ban on the worship of Talos to stir people up against the Empire. He never succeeded in getting much support, so a few months ago he murdered the High King! That got the Empire's attention."

He wasn't getting much support over the Talos ban, until he killed the High King as a message to the other Jarls. Torygg was just a symbol, killed because Ulfric could do it.

I don't believe you know what you're on about though, Ulfric united the rebels? Ulfric started the rebellion.

 

[Jeremius]

and a unified Skyrim will be what the Thalmor fear. Do not forget, they do not want a stormcloak victory either. If they wanted to weaken the Empire, they would not want the war to go on like it is. They want the War to go on, because a unified Nord people would kill them all.

No. The Thalmor want to avoid a Stormcloak victory, so they carefully manage indirect aid to the Stormcloaks. An Imperial victory harms their overall position.

The Thalmor want the war to go on like it does, because it weakens the Empire, it weakens Skyrim. Though perhaps you should explain why you believe a bunch of poorly trained Stormcloaks who can't reach the Aldmeri Dominion, are what the Thalmor fear.

Plus, I doubt Ulfric waited until the legions went south. this has been going on long before Ulfric became Jarl of Windhelm. He just united the rebels.

Ulfric Stormcloak is the rebellion, it didn't start until the death of High King Torygg a little while after the Moot named him High King. The rebellion itself didn't happen until the death of Torygg, while the birthplace of the rebellion was the Markarth Incident.

"Ulfric founded the Stormcloaks years ago, as a sort of private army to advance his ambitions. He's always used the ban on the worship of Talos to stir people up against the Empire. He never succeeded in getting much support, so a few months ago he murdered the High King! That got the Empire's attention."

He wasn't getting much support over the Talos ban, until he killed the High King as a message to the other Jarls. Torygg was just a symbol, killed because Ulfric could do it.

I don't believe you know what you're on about though, Ulfric united the rebels? Ulfric started the rebellion.

Uniting rebels is starting a rebellion, of sorts. You have a group of people who despised the Empire's laziness against the Thalmor, who they are now subservient to, and Ulfrifc gave them a unified banner to fight under. The whole Stormcloak thing was an Imperial tool used to put the rebellion under ambition. Side with the Stormcloaks and you will see Ulfric is not as selfish as you want him to be. He even is reluctant to lay siege to Whiterun, due to the number of lives. He does not kill anyone outside of those who try to kill his people.

Plus, you think the Stormcloaks will be the only ones to fight the Thalmor. Sooner or later the Empire will get invaded and the Nords will swoop in and save the day. For the Thalmor, Swooping is bad. but then again, all human races will fight the Thalmor anyways and there will not be an "Empire" or a "Stormcloaks", but an army of humanity.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Uniting rebels is starting a rebellion, of sorts. You have a group of people who despised the Empire's laziness against the Thalmor, who they are now subservient to, and Ulfrifc gave them a unified banner to fight under. The whole Stormcloak thing was an Imperial tool used to put the rebellion under ambition. Side with the Stormcloaks and you will see Ulfric is not as selfish as you want him to be. He even is reluctant to lay siege to Whiterun, due to the number of lives. He does not kill anyone outside of those who try to kill his people.

Plus, you think the Stormcloaks will be the only ones to fight the Thalmor. Sooner or later the Empire will get invaded and the Nords will swoop in and save the day. For the Thalmor, Swooping is bad.

There weren't any rebels until Ulfric started the rebellion, the rebels are his men. Are you saying united the rebels in a general way?

The Thalmor had a small presence, until the Civil War. The Thalmor couldn't touch those who worshiped Talos in secret, it actually took the Thalmor an entire week in the city of Markarth where the Justiciar's are based to arrest someone who was yelling about Talos in public.

Go to Markarth while under Imperial control, speak with the head of the Justiciars. He will ask you to go gather evidence for him, because the Imperial supporting Jarl won't allow him to arrest one Nord who worships in secret.

I have sided with the Stormcloaks many times. What I'm left with is a man who toys with the crowd, toys with a man's life to make a dramatic moment.

I also see a man who dismisses Nordic tradition the same as General Tullius did, least Tullius comes to respect the Nords and their traditions at the end of the war.

Galmar: "The Jarls are upset. They don't all support you."
Ulfric: "Damn the Jarls."
Galmar: "They demand the Moot."
Ulfric: "And damn the Moot!"

Ulfric's reluctant to siege Whiterun? He's only attacking it because there is no neutrality. Jarl Balgruuf disliked both Elisif and Ulfric and wanted to stay out of the war.

Though I did like how Ulfric tries to use the Dragonborn as a political tool at the end of the quest line.

Ulfric: "Come, Galmar. Where's your sense of the dramatic moment?"
Galmar: "By the gods! If it's a good ending to some damn story you're after..."

Ulfric: "To return to our glory and traditions, to determine our own future!"
Ulfric: "And it is for these reasons that I cannot accept the mantle of "High King." Not until the Moot declares that title should adorn my shoulders will I accept it."

I did enjoy the little side remark Ulfric made to Galmar after his speech.

Ulfric: "How'd I do?"
Galmar: "Eh, not so bad. Nice touch about the High King."
Ulfric: "Thank you, I thought so, too."
Galmar: "It's a foregone conclusion, you know."
Ulfric: "Oh, I know."

Ulfric swooping in to save the Empire? Hahaha, yes I can totally see Ulfric swooping to save the Empire. More like it will come at a high price, High King isn't the only thing Ulfric has set his eyes on.

Ulfric: "For it will be Skyrim that shall lead Tamriel in those dark days, when the fate of the world is finally determined."

I would prefer Thalmor victory and the destruction of the Empire, over that outcome any day.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Tiber Septim was Dragonborn. Yes this is true, He was also Talos of Atmora and a number of other things. We are talking about Empire vs Stormcloaks here. Talos was their emperor, and the Empire abolished him as a Divine to serve the milk-drinking elves. Cowardice I say. The Stormcloaks are fight for the tradition of The Nine not Eight. If Talos was an enemy why would the Nords fight to preserve him as a Divine???

"Because the Dominion is a sleeping beast that Skyrim cannot slay alone. Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now. Because the food and resources we get from the Empire are important to our people. Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his Empire."

Tiber Septim's dream was the Empire, he didn't build shrines to himself and he didn't demand worship. He created the Third Empire of Tamriel, so tearing apart his Empire. Is that fighting for him?

The Empire enforced the Talos ban poorly, ignoring it for twenty six years. "It's from that treaty that ended the Great War, remember, when the Emperor was forced by the Thalmor to outlaw Talos worship. We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down.

That right there is a true Imperial.

 

[Jeremius]

Uniting rebels is starting a rebellion, of sorts. You have a group of people who despised the Empire's laziness against the Thalmor, who they are now subservient to, and Ulfrifc gave them a unified banner to fight under. The whole Stormcloak thing was an Imperial tool used to put the rebellion under ambition. Side with the Stormcloaks and you will see Ulfric is not as selfish as you want him to be. He even is reluctant to lay siege to Whiterun, due to the number of lives. He does not kill anyone outside of those who try to kill his people.

Plus, you think the Stormcloaks will be the only ones to fight the Thalmor. Sooner or later the Empire will get invaded and the Nords will swoop in and save the day. For the Thalmor, Swooping is bad.

There weren't any rebels until Ulfric started the rebellion, the rebels are his men. Are you saying united the rebels in a general way?

The Thalmor had a small presence, until the Civil War. The Thalmor couldn't touch those who worshiped Talos in secret, it actually took the Thalmor an entire week in the city of Markarth where the Justiciar's are based to arrest someone who was yelling about Talos in public.

Go to Markarth while under Imperial control, speak with the head of the Justiciars. He will ask you to go gather evidence for him, because the Imperial supporting Jarl won't allow him to arrest one Nord who worships in secret.

1) maybe. There were people who were ticked off about the Empire before Ulfric, he did not kill torygg and Nords magically decided to rebel, like you seem to think they do.

2) You need evidence to arrest people for a crime in the real world, and the same thing here. No evidence, no breaking of the WGC.

 

[DrunkenMage]

1) maybe. There were people who were ticked off about the Empire before Ulfric, he did not kill torygg and Nords magically decided to rebel, like you seem to think they do.

2) You need evidence to arrest people for a crime in the real world, and the same thing here. No evidence, no breaking of the WGC.

There were a few Nords upset, but the Nords did decide to rebel with the death of Torygg. There wasn't open rebellion before hand, the moot supported Torygg and Ulfric was the only one using it to voice independence.

No other Jarl supported Ulfric, until he killed Torygg as a message to the Jarls. Without the other Jarls and their Holds supporting him, Ulfric had no army. He had no rebels, he had no rebellion.

Thank you for your second point. You have just made my exact point, the Thalmor do not have power over the Empire to do what ever they want. When the Empire is watching the Thalmor are bound by Imperial law in regards to protection of citizens of the Empire.

Thalmor can only do as they please during the Civil War, when the Empire has less authority and struggle to maintain control, they use this as an excuse for their Inquisition to cause Nords to flock to Ulfric's side. Keeping the Civil War going.

Very nicely done, Imperial supporters tip their hat to you.

 

[Ulfberht]

The Empire has become lame-sauce compared to how it was in Morrowind. I happily joined the Legion in Morrowind when I was little and recently. (ironically with a character named Wulfgar Stormcloak) Their armor looked a lot niftier, too. Now they're just silly tan men in leather getting smashed underneath hammers.

 

[Jeremius]

1) maybe. There were people who were ticked off about the Empire before Ulfric, he did not kill torygg and Nords magically decided to rebel, like you seem to think they do.

2) You need evidence to arrest people for a crime in the real world, and the same thing here. No evidence, no breaking of the WGC.

There were a few Nords upset, but the Nords did decide to rebel with the death of Torygg. There wasn't open rebellion before hand, the moot supported Torygg and Ulfric was the only one using it to voice independence.

No other Jarl supported Ulfric, until he killed Torygg as a message to the Jarls. Without the other Jarls and their Holds supporting him, Ulfric had no army. He had no rebels, he had no rebellion.

Thank you for your second point. You have just made my exact point, the Thalmor do not have power of the Empire to do what ever they want. When the Empire is watching the Thalmor are bound by Imperial law in regards to protection of citizens of the Empire.

Thalmor can only do as they please during the Civil War, when the Empire has less authority and struggle to maintain control, they use this as an excuse for their Inquisition to cause Nords top flock to Ulfric's side. Keeping the Civil War going.

Very nicely done, Imperial supporters tip their hat to you.

Except the Thalmor do have power. IF they did not, the Nords would not have to worship in secret just to do so. The fact that they were denying it at all was a form of rebellion, and the Empire was too lazy to do anything about it, until their Thalmor masters stepped in and forced them to enforce it.

Sooner or later "Ulfric's tools of ambition," as the Cowardly Imperials like to call them, are going to outnumber them. Rikke actually mentions that more flock to his cause every day. What is that cause? Ulfric become high King for the sake of it? Or the freedom to not get bossed around by cowards?

 

[DrunkenMage]

Except the Thalmor do have power. IF they did not, the Nords would not have to worship in secret just to do so. The fact that they were denying it at all was a form of rebellion, and the Empire was too lazy to do anything about it, until their Thalmor masters stepped in and forced them to enforce it.

The Nords worshiped in secret because they didn't care, it was Imperial law but so poorly enforced that everyone had their little shrine to Talos. It only became an issue because of Ulfric, the rally over Talos didn't even get him much support. He only got supporters after killing the High King.

Sooner or later "Ulfric's tools of ambition," as the Cowardly Imperials like to call them, are going to outnumber them. Rikke actually mentions that more flock to his cause every day. What is that cause? Ulfric become high King for the sake of it? Or the freedom to not get bossed around by cowards?

Not really. Cyrodiil is assembling a force when the Stormcloaks start winning the war. Also the Dark Brotherhood frame the Stormcloaks for most of the quest line, especially Vici's murder which was a step to end the Civil War.

Had the wedding gone ahead, the Stormoaks and Imperials would have met major steps towards peace. "Vittoria Vici is the first cousin to our dear Emperor, Titus Mede II. Vici has obvious Imperial connections. Her husband has ties to the Stormcloaks. Their union is a step toward reconciliation. So if there's a murder at the wedding... Not only will it stall the peace process - it will send shockwaves throughout the entire Empire. The Emperor's hand will be forced."

Ulfric knew exactly what would happen. "We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's cousin is getting married! If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire." - Ulfric Stormcloak

 

[Jeremius]

Except the Thalmor do have power. IF they did not, the Nords would not have to worship in secret just to do so. The fact that they were denying it at all was a form of rebellion, and the Empire was too lazy to do anything about it, until their Thalmor masters stepped in and forced them to enforce it.

The Nords worshiped in secret because they didn't care, it was Imperial law but so poorly enforced that everyone had their little shrine to Talos. It only became an issue because of Ulfric, the rally over Talos didn't even get him much support. He only got supporters after killing the High King.

Sooner or later "Ulfric's tools of ambition," as the Cowardly Imperials like to call them, are going to outnumber them. Rikke actually mentions that more flock to his cause every day. What is that cause? Ulfric become high King for the sake of it? Or the freedom to not get bossed around by cowards?

Not really. Cyrodiil is assembling a force when the Stormcloaks start winning the war. Also the Dark Brotherhood frame the Stormcloaks for most of the quest line, especially Vici's murder which was a step to end the Civil War.

Had the wedding gone ahead, the Stormoaks and Imperials would have met major steps towards peace. "Vittoria Vici is the first cousin to our dear Emperor, Titus Mede II. Vici has obvious Imperial connections. Her husband has ties to the Stormcloaks. Their union is a step toward reconciliation. So if there's a murder at the wedding... Not only will it stall the peace process - it will send shockwaves throughout the entire Empire. The Emperor's hand will be forced."

Ulfric knew exactly what would happen. "We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's cousin is getting married! If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire." - Ulfric Stormcloak

1) You listen too much to Hadvar. The court even tells you that torygg WOULD have broke away from the Empire if asked, if he could get the same resources he would by staying an imperial toady. Rebellion was already in the hearts of the Nords, otherwise Ulfric would not have had a "rebellion forming" at the guy's death.

2) Really? Just because vici's husband "was a stormcloak," which there is no evidence of, by the way, the DB was framing the stormcloaks for murder? now whose grasping at straws?

 

[Rimfaxe96]

Except the Thalmor do have power. IF they did not, the Nords would not have to worship in secret just to do so. The fact that they were denying it at all was a form of rebellion, and the Empire was too lazy to do anything about it, until their Thalmor masters stepped in and forced them to enforce it.

The only power they have at that point is to move freely through Skyrim (don't know if this Inquisition is in the other Imperial provinces as well?). What do you think would be the reaction of the Emperor if he knew that citizen were pulled out of their homes at night and gone missing afterwards?
There are no Elven masters so far. They gotta win World War II the next war first.

2) Really? Just because vici's husband "was a stormcloak," which there is no evidence of, by the way, the DB was framing the stormcloaks for murder? now whose grasping at straws?

Vici's husband is no Stormcloak, he doesn't agree with their philosophy at all and his sister was even killed by Imperial forces. But his parents are strong Stormcloak supports; hell, his mother is a Talos priestess. Look him up, his name is Arngeir Snow-Shod.

 

[Jeremius]

Except the Thalmor do have power. IF they did not, the Nords would not have to worship in secret just to do so. The fact that they were denying it at all was a form of rebellion, and the Empire was too lazy to do anything about it, until their Thalmor masters stepped in and forced them to enforce it.

The only power they have at that point is to move freely through Skyrim (don't know if this Inquisition is in the other Imperial provinces as well?). What do you think would be the reaction of the Emperor if he knew that citizen were pulled out of their homes at night and gone missing afterwards?
There are no Elven masters so far. They gotta win World War II the next war first.

People worship Talos in secret because they fear the Thalmor, but still worship Talos. Kicking the Empire and Thalmor out of Skyrim is the sign that the Thalmor are all bark, no bite, and that the Empire has lost its right to rule anyone.

 

[DrunkenMage]

1) You listen too much to Hadvar. The court even tells you that torygg WOULD have broke away from the Empire if asked, if he could get the same resources he would by staying an imperial toady. Rebellion was already in the hearts of the Nords, otherwise Ulfric would not have had a "rebellion forming" at the guy's death.

Torygg greatly respected Ulfric's counsel and was willing to hear more about Ulfric's talk of independence. They do not say he would have broken away from the Empire if asked, he was considering it. Though actually that is not rebellion, Skyrim could have actually left the Empire without any bloodshed, free of the White-Gold Concordat. The Empire didn't want a war in Skyrim, they're there to uphold the law and protect the citizenry. Ulfric started the war. There is no reason why Skyrim had to leave the Empire through violence.

2) Really? Just because vici's husband "was a stormcloak," which there is no evidence of, by the way, the DB was framing the stormcloaks for murder? now whose grasping at straws?

He has Stormcloak ties, his family are major Stormcloak supporters. I'm not grasping at straws, I'm telling you in-game information. You kill Vici, the Imperial, the Stormcloaks there will yell the Empire will blame the Stormcloaks for her death. Play the game before you make comments. Not to mention you leave an incriminating letter on a body that says the Emperor will die by Stormcloak hands.

What else do you need to say the DB were framing the Stormcloaks? Besides the letter, besides the murder of Vici, besides the Stormcloak supporters there yelling they will get the blame. Do you need a huge sign saying it? Because I thought it was pretty clear.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

People worship Talos in secret because they fear the Thalmor, but still worship Talos. Kicking the Empire and Thalmor out of Skyrim is the sign that the Thalmor are all bark, no bite, and that the Empire has lost its right to rule anyone.

And the Thalmor have free roam thanks to the Civil War/Stormcloaks, exactly. It has nothing to do with the Empire not having the right to rule anyone, but of course they don't have any power over the provinces where war occurs and Stormcloaks rule. The Thalmor have nothing to do with the Stormcloaks, and as long as they keep out of their sight they can go on and kill and murder whoever they please.
Look at Markarth. The Thalmor can't even imprison someone, and killing is absolutely out of the question. If Ulfric had kept his mouth shut there would be no Inquisition, no people going missing, no Nords dying for a pointless and lost cause. The Empire accepted the WGC and never enforced it, you could have still organized your Talos worship stuff if he'd just shut the heck up. But he wasn't smart enough for that.

 

[Jeremius]

1) You listen too much to Hadvar. The court even tells you that torygg WOULD have broke away from the Empire if asked, if he could get the same resources he would by staying an imperial toady. Rebellion was already in the hearts of the Nords, otherwise Ulfric would not have had a "rebellion forming" at the guy's death.

Torygg greatly respected Ulfric's counsel and was willing to hear more about Ulfric's talk of independence. They do not say he would have broken away from the Empire if asked, he was considering it. Though actually that is not rebellion, Skyrim could have actually left the Empire without any bloodshed, free of the White-Gold Concordat. The Empire didn't want a war in Skyrim, they're there to control the citizenry and take resources. Ulfric started the war. There is no reason why Skyrim had to leave the Empire through violence.

2) Really? Just because vici's husband "was a stormcloak," which there is no evidence of, by the way, the DB was framing the stormcloaks for murder? now whose grasping at straws?

He has Stormcloak ties, his family are major Stormcloak supporters. I'm not grasping at straws, I'm telling you in-game information. You kill Vici, the Imperial, the Stormcloaks there will yell the Empire will blame the Stormcloaks for her death. Play the game before you make comments. Not to mention you leave an incriminating letter on a body that says the Emperor will die by Stormcloak hands.[/quote]

I thought that letter was about the Penitus Occulatus wanting the Emperor dead, and they were going to use the stormcloaks as tools to justify the need to wipe out Skyrim's nord population, and was FAKED SO IT WAS NOT GONNA HAPPEN? The plan was to make it so that the plot was within the ranks of the Emperor's guard, not blame the stormcloaks.

 

[Jeremius]

People worship Talos in secret because they fear the Thalmor, but still worship Talos. Kicking the Empire and Thalmor out of Skyrim is the sign that the Thalmor are all bark, no bite, and that the Empire has lost its right to rule anyone.

And the Thalmor have free roam thanks to the Civil War/Stormcloaks, exactly. It has nothing to do with the Empire not having the right to rule anyone, but of course they don't have any power over the provinces where war occurs and Stormcloaks rule. The Thalmor have nothing to do with the Stormcloaks, and as long as they keep out of their sight they can go on and kill and murder whoever they please.
Look at Markarth. The Thalmor can't even imprison someone, and killing is absolutely out of the question. If Ulfric had kept his mouth shut there would be no Inquisition, no people going missing, no Nords dying for a pointless and lost cause. The Empire accepted the WGC and never enforced it, you could have still organized your Talos worship stuff if he'd just shut the heck up. But he wasn't smart enough for that.

They have free roam because the Empire was technicallt perpetuating the "hidden" rebellion against the WGC by not enforcing the treaty MEDE signed into law.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

They have free roam because the Empire was technicallt perpetuating the "hidden" rebellion against the WGC by not enforcing the treaty MEDE signed into law.

The following events of the Markarth Incident caught the Thalmor's attention. The 26 years before that all they could do was to grit their teeth and believe the Empire when they claimed it was abolished and gone for good. And please don't tell me how it was the Empire's fault, it worked perfectly for 26 years until Ulfric demanded free worship of Talos for re-taking Markarth and purging the Reach even though he could have done that all the time.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I thought that letter was about the Penitus Occulatus wanting the Emperor dead, and they were going to use the stormcloaks as tools to justify the need to wipe out Skyrim's nord population, and was FAKED SO IT WAS NOT GONNA HAPPEN? The plan was to make it so that the plot was within the ranks of the Emperor's guard, not blame the stormcloaks.

The whole quest line is to draw attention away from the Empire. The Elder Council had Titus Mede II killed, who do you think they're going to blame? Themselves. No the Stormcloaks are the scapegoat.

"It was the Empire killed her! I know it! They killed her so they can blame it on the Stormcloaks!"

Vunwulf,

I agree to your conditions. When the Emperor arrives, I will pass along his schedule, and arrange for all doors to be unlocked, and any posted security to be conveniently absent for a small period of time.

Nothing will stand between your men and his eminence. He will die by Stormcloak hands, and neither my father nor your great leader Ulfric will even know anything is amiss until it is too late.

Vici's assassination is blamed on the Stormcloaks, the plot to kill the Emperor is blamed on an Agent and a Stormcloak, the Emperor is then killed by the Dark Brotherhood. It leads up to being able to assign blame. You can't be that ignorant to not see it.

 

[DrunkenMage]

They have free roam because the Empire was technicallt perpetuating the "hidden" rebellion against the WGC by not enforcing the treaty MEDE signed into law.

The following events of the Markarth Incident caught the Thalmor's attention. The 26 years before that all they could do was to grit their teeth and believe the Empire when they claimed it was abolished and gone for good. And please don't tell me how it was the Empire's fault, it worked perfectly for 26 years until Ulfric demanded free worship of Talos for re-taking Markarth and purging the Reach even though he could have done that all the time.

Markarth Incident occurred twenty five years ago. This allowed the Thalmor into Skyrim, but limited ability in Markarth.

It was in one of these cities - Markarth, to be exact - where I made the conscious decision to defy the ban on Talos worship. And my defiance came in the form of - what else? - a song. For what bard who has spent time writing and rehearsing an original work can possible refrain from performing it? So perform it I did. Not once, not twice, but seven times. Once a day, for an entire week. - Flight from the Thalmor

It took an entire week for the Thalmor to catch onto someone going on about Talos in public, where the Justiciars are based.

The Civil War itself, Ulfric and his "Son's of Skyrim" started on it big time. The Sons of Skyrim is another name for the Stormcloaks. The lack of Imperial authority and the open worship allowed the Thalmor a larger presence to ensure the treaty was upheld. The lack of Imperial soldiers watching the Thalmor allowed them to move with free reigns.

The major enforcement over the ban on Talos is due to Ulfric Stormcloak indeed. The Thalmor stirred up trouble which caused more to join Ulfric Stormcloak's rebellion and with indirect aid being given to the Stormcloaks and the Thalmor aiding Ulfric to evade capture for many months kept the Civil War undecided. It wasn't until General Tullius was sent to Skyrim, who suspected the Thalmor were behind it was able to capture Ulfric. Then at Helgen they showed up trying to find a way to stop the execution.

Alduin showed up and wiped out an entire Imperial garrison, Ulfric fled back to Windhelm and never leaves his city. Causing the Civil War to go back to being undecided with the Legion in Skyrim weakened from the loss of their garrison, Pale Pass being blocked, the Emperor denying General Tullius reinforcements. And with Ulfric unable to be captured again.

 

[Jeremius]

when it comes down to it, all the lore in the world is no match to a good RP. All the lore could say Ulfric is daedric prince in disguise and if i had an RP that fit more with the Stormcloaks than the Empire, I am siding with the Stormcloaks.

/discussion