Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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azali100

Active Member
What if the empire did that? Balgruuf would side with Ulfric in a second. He and every other Jarl in the game wants one thing, and that is to keep his throne.

I'm sure they all do. But as anyone with eyes and ears could tell he obviously cares about the people of his hold as well. And your hypothetical situation only proves my previous point. He is taking sides to protect the hold. He won't submit ti threats. And the whole thing proves my other point: Ulfric is a poor political leader who lacks the ability to see the big picture, and resorts to brute force when he doesn't get his way (the killing of Torygg, the Civil War, threatning Whiterun).
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Whether you were running away or not, you have more experience with dragons than these men who have never seen one. You have seen what it is capable of. Furthermore, Farengar holds an important position in the hold that would not be easy to fill. There are plenty of inexperienced mages out there, but you need an experienced person to fill the position of Court Wizard. They aren't goin g to send him out to get roasted by a Dragon. Let me put it this way, do we send our Generals or Commander in Chief out to the frontlines? No, they are too important.

The problem with this is that Farengar is not a General nor a commander in chief. Hes just a court wizard that was put there to protect his hold. Wouldn't it be better if Balgruuf allowed the more experienced fighters to deal with the dragon then just let the town guards handle it? Sure he sent his house carl, but Farengar could've help in the fight as well using his magic.

I've never heard anyone in -game complain about Balgruuf unlike the other Jarls including Ulfric, hell you're the first person outside the game i've seen complain about him, so I'm going to go ahead and say he is a good leader based on that and what we know.

Nobody in the game knew about the Daedric prince in Dawnstar that was giving them countless of nightmares. The only one who truly knew was a male Dunmer who converted himself to Mara after worshiping Vaermina for some time. He knew that up in that hill lays a Deadric artifact that was affecting Dawnstars people, and thus wanted to send it back to the Oblivion.

Balgruuf doesn't have to worry about the Dark Brotherhood killing him because it would be his own son thats being influenced by because already he gave us hints that Farengar wont be missed if you kill him for the key.

No they don't. First of all judging individuals based on the actions of a race/group is racism, and there is no place for racism in my eyes. Second of all most of what you said is untrue. The High elves do not want to turn men into Thralls. The Thalmor do, and the Thalmor are a single political group within the Aldemeri Dominion. They don't represent a majority. Furthermore, the wood elves did not join willingly, Valenwood was taken by the Thalmor, and the Dark Elves aren't even part of the equation. No idea where you got that part from. And yes, we all know the Dark Elves used to enslave
Argonians. That was a few centuries ago. It doesn't justify any anti-Dark Elf actions in Skyrim's time frame. Do you really need me to bring in the whole USA/Slavery/Racism example into it?

What do you mean that the Thalmor doesn't want to turn men into Thralls? They do too. They want to dominate man kind, and be the rightful rulers of Tamriel. They've already turned the Empire into thralls by signing a treaty that clearly favors them by banning the worship of Talos. Look how it broke relationships among man.


Can't blame anyone but Ulfric for what Ulfric did.
I can also blame Igmund for High treason and conspiracy to commit mass murder against the reachman for his selfish reason of wanting to be in charge again :)

You can't base an argument on evidence that doesn't exist. Can you show me evidence they were using them as human shields? A book? A character? Anything? No? Then you can't use it to support an argument. On the other hand there are books and characters that tell you about the terrible things Ulfric did in Markarth.

So it's ok to use 1 book as a key weapon to call Ulfric Stormcloak a mass murderer of the innocence? I've played Skyrim for sometime and I don't remember reading any other book or listening to a NPC about the accusation of Ulfric killing children or the elderly. When speaking with characters (Mostly from the cindah mine) they reference a race, not Ulfric himself.

Anyways, using a "human shield" in battle of swords and spears is highly implausible.

How do you know? How do you know that the reachman didn't use children as human shields? Their culture is bizarre. They have ceremony where they tear the hearts out of their own people, and turn them into the undead soldiers.

To that respects their just like Mola ram from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

Lets not forget how they kidnapped a little girl, Fjotra , from a village and was going to do the unexplainable things to her in a blood room.

800px-SR-quest-The_Heart_of_Dibella_06.jpg



Look at it this way, Balgruuf can choose to send a rather difficult to replace Court Wizard, who may not even be that skilled in the Destruction school, since after all Farengar seems to be more of an intellectual than a fighter, or he can send some random, as far as he knows completely unimportant person to fight a dragon, even if their only experience with dragons is running away they at least would know enough on what the dragon is capable enough where as Farengar knows naught about dragons.
According to uesp Farengar's primary Skills are Destruction, Restoration with Alteration and Conjuration. Hes known to cast firebolts Skyrim:Destruction Spells - UESPWiki and fighting with a Dragon Skyrim:Dragon - UESPWiki would've been beneficial for an easy and quick death (I play on master so I take more damage). Since he also practices restoration it would've been great if he can heal people with his healing powers. As far as him being more intellectual than a fighter... thats all true but mages uses their intelligence as a weapon rather than picking up a sword.


Ebony Blade is hidden with in Dragonsreach to keep it away from people so that it cannot be used by the wrong person, as is written in the book sitting RIGHT BESIDE IT.
As you can see Ebony Blade was locked up to keep it safe since it couldn't be destroyed.
Right but instead of keeping it away from people why not simply request a priest of Mara to come and dispose of it? If it couldn't be destroyed then send it back to the Oblivion. Don't you agree with me on that? It can be done and it's lore, according to the incident in Dawnstar.

It is also stated by multiple people that Torygg would likely have declared independence from the Empire if Ulfric requested him to do so, but rather than ask that of Torygg before killing him he just out right killed him and started a war.

I find it bullplops. If Torygg truly wanted independence, and actually favored Ulfric more than the Empire he should've done something about it. Instead Ulfric coming to him he should've came to Ulfric . Independence from the Empire wasn't truly what Torygg wanted in heart other wise he would've done something about it.
As for the topic of Nords Arise, ever hear of propaganda? Chances are Ulfric himself commissioned the book to gain support. Every recruitment war in history had some form of propaganda involved, after all propaganda=recruits.

You can't prove that it was Ulfric himself that commissioned the book. You're just assuming that it was him. You have no evidence backing up that claim. Besides Ulfric is already getting a lot of support, and it's not caused by propaganda either.

First of all lets take a look at the evidence against Ulfric, as well as that for Ulfric from the main source of the the assault on Markarth by Ulfric Stormcloak. To do this I will bold supporting evidence to those against Ulfric, and underline that which supports Ulfric.

While much of this is directed against Ulfric, I know your main argument is that Igmund is worse Jarl than Ulfric (which is a nice defence for your side of the argument by the way, redirecting things away from the main issue when you know you are defeated and have little grounds to stand on. A clever debating tactic, but is no more than a smoke screen in actuality.). In reality, Ulfric stormcloak is no better than Igmund in this matter, yes Igmund sent Ulfric to reclaim his hold, but it is Ulfric who agreed to do so. It is Ulfric who committed war crimes, it was Igmund who left Ulfric to his own devices to allow this, yes, but it is Ulfric who decided to do so. Ulfric could've taken the city and fortify it and kept it under a peaceful, if military ruled, state of government until Igmund and the Empire had arrived to ensure a long term peace. Even if Igmund told Ulfric to do what he did, Ulfric could've said no. At the end of the day, it's not the man who plots the harm of another that is the most evil, it's the man who carries out the action without guilt or remorse who is the worse of the two.

Ulfric agreed only because Igmund promised him and his nord people free worship of Talos that he knew he couldn't do in return. If you're that desperate for freedom you would do anything in your power obtain it.

Supposed living conditions? When there is solid proof of something, it's not just supposed and more, it's a fact. Let us take a look at the definition of supposed, shall we?
Supposed, v.
  1. Assume that something is the case on the basis of evidence or probability but without proof or certain knowledge.
  2. Used to make a reluctant or hesitant admission.
We have many examples of proof of the Dunmer living conditions are no longer supposed, they are fact. Yes some Dunmer are allowed to run businesses and the like, but that doesn't change the fact that the only place they are allowed to live in Eastmarch is in the Grey Quarter of Windhelm, which is segregation by race, which is racism. Now sure they could try and move, in the middle of a civil war, on bandit filled roads, in a harsh environment. Sure of course they could just get on the next bus, oh wait they can't. Moving like you suggest is incredibly dangerous, nearly to the point of being a death sentence. It's even a danger to people like the Dragonborn, so I guess you should rethink that idea.

:takes a deep breath in and then out: I believe we've already discussed this before. I will repeat what I previously said.. theirs empty forts throughout skyrim there that the dark elves of windhelm can call home if their seriously tired of their living conditons, and how their being treated. You cannot get rid of racism because it's part of life. Yes it's dangerous out there in the wilderness, but you must fight and keep your territory from getting invaded by bandits and warlocks or you wand up like Stalleo and losing your fort, Treva's Watch, to bandits. All but 1 orc strongholds are doing just fine.

Have you ever seen those old cities that have multiple districts that are ringed in such away that there are layers of walls? The reason that is, is actually very obvious, when the city is too crowded people begin to live outside the walls, then they build a wall to protect those people. People living further in the city tend to be more protected by the multiple layers of walls, and so the rich tend to buy up property in those districts. What is there to stop Brunwulf from doing this? He simply needs to build a wall around the city, then remove laws restricting certain races to certain districts. After which everyone will be protected, and will be able to move throughout the city as they gain wealth. Coupled with the right to build your home wherever you may wish in Eastmarch it would create a very well structured society. Now that is the better solution.

Where is Brunwulf going to get the resources to do such thing? Where is he going to find the gold to build? The only way to do it is to raise taxes. This will piss off a lot of people.
 

azali100

Active Member
The problem with this is that Farengar is not a General nor a commander in chief. Hes just a court wizard that was put there to protect his hold. Wouldn't it be better if Balgruuf allowed the more experienced fighters to deal with the dragon then just let the town guards handle it? Sure he sent his house carl, but Farengar could've help in the fight as well using his magic.

That's not the point. The point is certain people are not expendable. You cant send them off into any violent situation to put themselves at risk. The Court Wizard is one of these. He can better serve his hold by conducting research on the Dragons and Alduin than running off and getting turned into a charred corpse. He's the most well learned person in the court magic-wise.



Nobody in the game knew about the Daedric prince in Dawnstar that was giving them countless of nightmares. The only one who truly knew was a male Dunmer who converted himself to Mara after worshiping Vaermina for some time. He knew that up in that hill lays a Deadric artifact that was affecting Dawnstars people, and thus wanted to send it back to the Oblivion.

Did I miss something here? Balgruuf is Jarl of Whiterun.


What do you mean that the Thalmor doesn't want to turn men into Thralls? They do too. They want to dominate man kind, and be the rightful rulers of Tamriel. They've already turned the Empire into thralls by signing a treaty that clearly favors them by banning the worship of Talos. Look how it broke relationships among man.

Please go back and read what I wrote again because everything you just wrote here is based on something I never said. Learn to tell the difference between The Aldemeri Dominion, The Thalmor, and High Elves while your at it.



I can also blame Igmund for High treason and conspiracy to commit mass murder against the reachman for his selfish reason of wanting to be in charge again :)

It. Doesn't. Matter. If you want to argue about Igmund's moral issues go start a topic about that. This is about Ulfric.



So it's ok to use 1 book as a key weapon to call Ulfric Stormcloak a mass murderer of the innocence? I've played Skyrim for sometime and I don't remember reading any other book or listening to a NPC about the accusation of Ulfric killing children or the elderly. When speaking with characters (Mostly from the cindah mine) they reference a race, not Ulfric himself.

So you try to make an argument with no evidence at all, and when I make an argument using evidence from the game I'm wrong?

The books in the game exist to provide information and explain the backstory/lore. Therefore all books are assumed to be true (except blatant lies like "The Talos Mistake" or whatever its called). Or are you saying that every book with a subject not discussed by in game characters is untrue?


How do you know? How do you know that the reachman didn't use cIildren as human shields? Their culture is bizarre. They have ceremony where they tear the hearts out of their own people, and turn them into the undead soldiers.

Again. It. Doesn't. Matter. You can't argue something based on what we don't know happened. There is nothing in the game that indicates they used kids as human shields. Thats something you pulled out of your *** so you can have something to argue with.
 

feliciano182

Well-Known Member
The degree of rationalization of some people is absolutely staggering, between Raijin and Jeremius, this topic has turned into a massive ball of absurdity.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
That's not the point. The point is certain people are not expendable. You cant send them off into any violent situation to put themselves at risk. The Court Wizard is one of these. He can better serve his hold by conducting research on the Dragons and Alduin than running off and getting turned into a charred corpse. He's the most well learned person in the court magic-wise.
I feel like a broken record but as I keep saying Court wizards are there to protect their holds at all cost. What part don't you understand? And how on earth can this man conduct his research on dragons when Balgruuf won't even let him go near one, or analyze them during battle to find their weakspot?

Did I miss something here? Balgruuf is Jarl of Whiterun.

Yes you did :) I was simply explaining how Balgruuf could've disposed of the Daedric artifact that he has in his possession using an example of what happen in Dawnstar.

Please go back and read what I wrote again because everything you just wrote here is based on something I never said. Learn to tell the difference between The Aldemeri Dominion, The Thalmor, and High Elves while your at it.

I already know the difference between Aldemeri Dominion, Thalmor and the High elves :)

It. Doesn't. Matter. If you want to argue about Igmund's moral issues go start a topic about that. This is about Ulfric.

But people like you are trying to use Markarth to discredit Ulfric, and to shove the Bear of Markarth (a fapping material) down our throats by accusing Ulfric of murdering innocent people. Well guess who's responsible for that if it actually happen? Igmund so of course I'm going to bring this sorry ass no excuse of a Jarl into this. Unfortunately Ulfric is a fictional character so he can just down right defend himself over this accusation :)
So you try to make an argument with no evidence at all, and when I make an argument using evidence from the game I'm wrong?

The books in the game exist to provide information and explain the backstory/lore. Therefore all books are assumed to be true (except blatant lies like "The Talos Mistake" or whatever its called). Or are you saying that every book with a subject not discussed by in game characters is untrue?

Are you reading any of my posts or are you observing someone else's? Because most of the time I can back things up with facts either it be by video, screenshots or lore.

I'm the type of person that isn't quick to pass judgments base on what I read in a book. I like to hear Ulfric side of the story regarding to this strong accusation of killing innocent people in Markarth during the invasion. Is it a crime to do that? Perhaps if Bethesda wasn't so much in a hurry to release Skyrim on 11/11/11 maybe things could be a bit more clear on what actually happen in Markarth by listening to what other NPCs has to say. Don't hate me for not believing in what this book tells me. Blame Bethesda for not giving me the opportunity to hear Ulfrics side of the story. I am open minded.

Again. It. Doesn't. Matter. You can't argue something based on what we don't know happened. There is nothing in the game that indicates they used kids as human shields. Thats something you pulled out of your *** so you can have something to argue with.

So you're admitting that facts don't matter? In case if you don't know what a Forsworn Briarhearts are you might want to read it up Skyrim:Forsworn - UESPWiki and how they became a Forsworn Briarheart in the first place. Go checkout Lost Valley Redoubt near the wordwall you will encounter 2 Hagravens with a dead forsworn body laying down on a bloody cement table
800px-SR-npc-Forsworn_06.jpg

Skyrim:Forsworn - UESPWiki
If their willing to do this kind of ritual on themselves I can't even imagine what they do their children.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
I will give a logical resonse to the arguments I have read.

White-Gold Concordant
While it did save the empire, It enslaved the empire to a law of the Thalmor, not a law of the Emperor. This is considered weakness among the nords (They do not take stuff like this laying down). Ulfric's cause is gaining popularity because the killing of the High king revealed the Empire as weak. Thus both are right in their regards.
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Ulfric's Racism
Ulfric may be a racist, but the policy of Racial Segregation has actually made the City more peaceful, by keeping argonians out of the city proper and the Dunmer living in the Grey quarter, you remove the tension that could cause a race war. Plus, Niranye, A High Elf Shopkeeper, is a prime example of how Nords themselves are not racist, but respect honor and strength.
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Skyrim would be safer under the Empire's Banner/Empire cannot protect Skyrim
Don't know if you guys know this, but the Thalmor are not stupid. There are a few ways to get to Skyrim and all the Imperial Supporters think that the Thalmor have an army somewhere waiting for Skyrim to become free. I doubt they do, but even if they did, they would not risk Breaking the WGC with the Empire by sending an army through any imperial Territory. They also Cannot enter the land of the Redguards after the second treaty of Stros M'kai, so that route is out. They do not know the lands of Argonia/Black Marsh or Morrowind, so it is to risky for that as well. Unless the Dominion can navigat the waters safely, I'd say Skyrim is safe, no matter who is in charge.


Any Questions?
 

azali100

Active Member
I feel like a broken record but as I keep saying Court wizards are there to protect their holds at all cost. What part don't you understand? And how on earth can this man conduct his research on dragons when Balgruuf won't even let him go near one, or analyze them during battle to find their weakspot?


A court wizard's job is to act as an advisor and a consultant not a soldier. THey research and study not by fighting a dragon but by looking into magical sources, and studying artifacts and scholarly sources. It is the Jarls job to protect the hold at all costs, not the court wizard.


I already know the difference between Aldemeri Dominion, Thalmor and the High elves :)


Then why did you say that I said the Thalmor don't want to enslave men, when I clearly said High Elves don't want to enslave man, which is what you wrote?


But people like you are trying to use Markarth to discredit Ulfric, and to shove the Bear of Markarth (a fapping material) down our throats by accusing Ulfric of murdering innocent people. Well guess who's responsible for that if it actually happen? Igmund so of course I'm going to bring this sorry ass no excuse of a Jarl into this. Unfortunately Ulfric is a fictional character so he can just down right defend himself over this accusation :)

Jackie-chan-meme.png


No. Ulfric is responsible for the people Ulfric killed. Ulfric. Get that into your dense skull. Seriously you're making me mad now and that's not an easy thing to do.


If Ulfric kills someone it is his fault. I don't care if somone told him to do it, he is responsible for that death. If I tell you to kill someone and you kill them you are going to jail with me. Period.


Are you reading any of my posts or are you observing someone else's? Because most of the time I can back things up with facts either it be by video, screenshots or lore.


The whole human sheild thing is not backed up by anything.


So you're admitting that facts don't matter? In case if you don't know what a Forsworn Briarhearts are you might want to read it up Skyrim:Forsworn - UESPWiki and how they became a Forsworn Briarheart in the first place. Go checkout Lost Valley Redoubt near the wordwall you will encounter 2 Hagravens with a dead forsworn body laying down on a bloody cement table


Facts do matter. But you can't use them in situations where they are not relevant. How does "Forsworn Briar-Heart" translate to "Human Shield".
 

feliciano182

Well-Known Member
I'll handle this everyone

White-Gold Concordant
While it did save the empire, It enslaved the empire to a law of the Thalmor, not a law of the Emperor. This is considered weakness among the nords (They do not take stuff like this laying down). Ulfric's cause is gaining popularity because the killing of the High king revealed the Empire as weak. Thus both are right in their regards.

Both who ? And what is the point here ?

Ulfric's Racism
Ulfric may be a racist, but the policy of Racial Segregation has actually made the City more peaceful, by keeping argonians out of the city proper and the Dunmer living in the Grey quarter, you remove the tension that could cause a race war. Plus, Niranye, A High Elf Shopkeeper, is a prime example of how Nords themselves are not racist, but respect honor and strength.

How old are you ?

Nobody, in this day and age, would say something like this unless he/she was:

A) A person completely devoid of morality and sense of right/wrong.

B) Somebody talking out of their a** simply to defend their choice in a game.

I'm betting on "B".

Skyrim would be safer under the Empire's Banner/Empire cannot protect Skyrim
Don't know if you guys know this, but the Thalmor are not stupid. There are a few ways to get to Skyrim and all the Imperial Supporters think that the Thalmor have an army somewhere waiting for Skyrim to become free. I doubt they do, but even if they did, they would not risk Breaking the WGC with the Empire by sending an army through any imperial Territory.

Actually, if Skyrim is free, then that means they're exempt from the conditions of the WGC, as well as any protection The Empire can offer, so The Dominion can perfectly march through Cyrodiil and straight into Skyrim, unless The Empire firmly opposed, to which case they would be forced to fight The Dominion alone, as would every single province now thanks to The Stormcloaks.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
I'll handle this everyone



Both who ? And what is the point here ?



How old are you ?

Nobody, in this day and age, would say something like this unless he/she was:

A) A person completely devoid of morality and sense of right/wrong.

B) Somebody talking out of their a** simply to defend their choice in a game.

I'm betting on "B".



Actually, if Skyrim is free, then that means they're exempt from the conditions of the WGC, as well as any protection The Empire can offer, so The Dominion can perfectly march through Cyrodiil and straight into Skyrim, unless The Empire firmly opposed, to which case they would be forced to fight The Dominion alone, as would every single province now thanks to The Stormcloaks.

1) Both sides of the Civil War. Point is that they both have reason they concluded from what they have and thus, are both right.
2) SO, stating the fact that the City of Windhelm seems more peaceful, because the tension of the problem of all being removed/alleviated, is talking out of my butt? Interesting, , and I do not use MODERN morality on this issue, If I did, I would be killing everyone Involved in the war, because WAR IS WRONG. Also If you had members of three different races living in your community and the members hated each other, would you not want them separated to keep the peace, Racist, but protects the community at large.
3) Supposition, you cannot say that every nation would fight the war on its own, unless you have a script from the future on the rest of the series, That is an opinion. Mine was as well, but based on Common sense, that being that the Thalmor do not have an army, and that they would have to march straight through Cyrodil to get to Skyrim, and that it would strain the WGC if they did that with an ARMY. Small strike forces could do it fine, but would easily lose numbers in the fighting, thanks to logical strategies.

Did you even think on any of those, or did you just say what your gut told you? Because your gut is usually wrong.
 

feliciano182

Well-Known Member
1) not commenting, because it is simple logic and if you do not get it, well, you are on your own.

Not really, it's because you're not making any sense in that paragraph.

2) SO, stating the fact that the City of Windhelm seems more peaceful is talking out of my butt? Interesting

Every single hold in Skyrim seems just as peaceful, if not more than Windhelm, in fact, by the time you arrive into the city, there's a serial killer on the loose, "beast race" caravans are being attacked and receive no protection from the guards, and to top it off, there's an altmer criminal organization operating within the hold, being handled by whom ? The frikkin Thieves Guild.

To say racist policies have been succesful in mitigating violence is, apart from a lie, an inmoral stance on a subject that, here in 2012, we should probably be over and done with, there's no justification for the mistreatment of dunmer and argonians in Windhelm, none, zero, nada.

Supposition, you cannot say that every nation would fight the war on its own, unless you have a script from the future on the rest of the series, That is an opinion.

EVERYTHING we say here is an opinion, the difference is that some are valid and some aren't.

Mine was as well, but based on Common sense, that being that the Thalmor do not have an army, and that they would have to march straight through Cyrodil to get to Skyrim, and that it would strain the WGC if they did that with an ARMY. Small strike forces could do it fine, but would easily lose numbers in the fighting, thanks to logical strategies.

Your opinion is based on your rationalization of The Stormcloaks's motivations, you clearly like that side, which is perfectly okay, the problem is when you proceed to do the most absurd mental gymnastics in order to defend them.

And how the hell does the Thalmor "not have an army" ? Where in the name of Oblivion did this come from ?

As to my point, if the WGC stands, and Ulfric succeeds in his rebellion, then reasonably, The Empire is in a position to help The Dominion in stamping out a rogue state that didn't abide by the terms of the concordat, they either handle it themselves, or they would let the thalmor walk through Cyrodiil and into Skyrim, they could refuse, but why should they ? They just evicted two legions out of their region, they deserve no help from The Empire.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
As to my point, if the WGC stands, and Ulfric succeeds in his rebellion, then reasonably, The Empire is in a position to help The Dominion in stamping out a rogue state that didn't abide by the terms of the concordat, they either handle it themselves, or they would let the thalmor walk through Cyrodiil and into Skyrim, they could refuse, but why should they ? They just evicted two legions out of their region, they deserve no help from The Empire.

Did the Empire Help with HAmmerfell?

not really. :/
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
They actually did, they didn't offer their support because Hammerfell refuse to abide by the terms of the WGC.

Actually, They did not, as you say "Help stomp out a rogue state." Plus How can Cyrodil be protected when the freedom of Skyrim breaks the empire apart? (assuming that trade gets so bad that Hi rock has to become like Hammerfell)

Plus, I like the Stormcloak Ideal of religious feedom, which is here, in the USA, a fundamental human right, which in this game was taken because of the WGC. That is all, I would prefer if the Empire ruled with that Ideal, but I do not like the fact that the Empire allows an "elven" Law to rule them.

One more thing, IS it the laws that protect a country, or is it a Military that does?

Simple logic abounds in your posts. /sarcasm
 

azali100

Active Member
Actually, They did not, as you say "Help stomp out a rogue state." Plus How can Cyrodil be protected when the freedom of Skyrim breaks the empire apart? (assuming that trade gets so bad that Hi rock has to become like Hammerfell)

Plus, I like the Stormcloak Ideal of religious feedom, which is here, in the USA, a fundamental human right, which in this game was taken because of the WGC. That is all, I would prefer if the Empire ruled with that Ideal, but I do not like the fact that the Empire allows an "elven" Law to rule them.

Simple logic abounds in your posts. /sarcasm

Yeah Religous freedom is a fundamental human right in the USA. So is the ideal that everyone is created equal and freedom to from racial segregation. But that doesn't seem to bother you at all now does it.
 

feliciano182

Well-Known Member
Actually, They did not, as you say "Help stomp out a rogue state." Plus How can Cyrodil be protected when the freedom of Skyrim breaks the empire apart? (assuming that trade gets so bad that Hi rock has to become like Hammerfell)

What the hell is this post trying to get at ?

I stated that as one of the options, the other ones being to "let The Dominion pass through" and "refusing to cooperate", it is worthy of noticing as well that Hammerfell wouldn't be in the same position that Skyrim is, if The Thalmor believe Hammerfell is a threat, then they can just attack them themselves, as they did. In Skyrim's particular case, the province stands with Cyrodiil as one of the tracts of land by which they The Dominion necessarily has to go through, as such, Cyrodiil has it's choices laid out, they either help or get out of the way, and that doesn't leave Skyrim safe AT ALL.

Plus, I like the Stormcloak Ideal of religious feedom, which is here, in the USA, a fundamental human right, which in this game was taken because of the WGC. That is all, I would prefer if the Empire ruled with that Ideal, but I do not like the fact that the Empire allows an "elven" Law to rule them.

I applaud you sir, for once, you're not jumping hoops to explain your support of the stormcloaks.

Even if, personally, I believe it is inmoral to prioritize one's religious freedom over the lives of thousands among thousands of people, but at least you're contributing to the discussion with that post.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Yeah Religous freedom is a fundamental human right in the USA. So is the ideal that everyone is created equal and freedom to from racial segregation. But that doesn't seem to bother you at all now does it.

If I ruled a hold and Had Nord, Dunmer, And Argonian Subjects, USing simple Logic, I would Separate them to ensure that there are little to no violence in the city/hold.
 

feliciano182

Well-Known Member
If I ruled a hold and Had Nord, Dunmer, And Argonian Subjects, USing simple Logic, I would Separate them to ensure that there are little to no violence in the city/hold.

Would you separate each race in areas with adequate, acceptable living conditions ? Allowing them fair wages and equal oportunities for each individual ?
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Would you separate each race in areas with adequate, acceptable living conditions ? Allowing them fair wages and equal oportunities for each individual ?

If there was room, sure. But it seems to me that the Grey quarter was the only place with enough room, so it is what they got. LOGIC
 

azali100

Active Member
If I ruled a hold and Had Nord, Dunmer, And Argonian Subjects, USing simple Logic, I would Separate them to ensure that there are little to no violence in the city/hold.

You can believe that segregation is a rational policy, fine. But don't sit there and pretend to appreciate American ideals of freedom.
 

feliciano182

Well-Known Member
If there was room, sure. But it seems to me that the Grey quarter was the only place with enough room, so it is what they got. LOGIC

And the living conditions ? The fair wages and glass ceiling ? Is that acceptable as well ?

It's also funny how "there's no room" is merely an assumption, why shouldn't there be room for dunmer and argonians in A CITY in the first place ?
 
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