How many skill trees should I focus on for a thief?

[Torok]

Yeah, I'm not playing a pure thief. I'm playing as a thief/assasian, but I'm a thief first and foremost, I don't kill innocents. I do enjoy sniping people with a crossbow.

My main perks I'm focusing on are sneak and archery. On the side I have pickpocket, alchemy (For making poisons.) one handed (Although I'm not using daggers that often anymore.) lockpicking I would be focusing on if I didn't have a mod that tells you exactly where to turn. I have light armor as well.

 

[DrunkenMage]

For thieves, you'll want to do the No stone unturned quest rather quick also. You'll be swimming in riches, I have thousands of gems, nordic ruins become even more filled of loot, with nearly every single chest, urn and even the bodies of draugr (The ones that are wrapped up, or the others that you can loot straight off) will have gems.

While lockpicking isn't always needed, it does have a certain perk that gives off a bigger chance for better treasure in chests. I used to always pass it off during previous builds, until the other day I decided to take it. Finding daedric items in a novice chest changed my tune on the thoughts of that perk.

As a thief, you can never have enough loot.

 

[Panthera]

I would go just for those basic skills here and only invest in health & stamina. If you see a need for armor you can add by your choice light or heavy skill perk tree... though light armor is preferable for stealth characters. And also in Blacksmith perk tree you can choose the material you like the most. Personally I go with steel look or elven.

In my current game as stealth character I didn't spend any perks on heavy or light armor because gaining skill on those trees, progress is the slowest, at least in my game (well I play on legendary and I get most of the time one-hitted and levels I gain is while I'm dropping dead). I just temper armors to legendary but I wear them just for show... you know just to look good in it.

 

[Perkless in Skyrim]

For thieves, you'll want to do the No stone unturned quest rather quick also. You'll be swimming in riches, I have thousands of gems, nordic ruins become even more filled of loot, with nearly every single chest, urn and even the bodies of draugr (The ones that are wrapped up, or the others that you can loot straight off) will have gems.

While lockpicking isn't always needed, it does have a certain perk that gives off a bigger chance for better treasure in chests. I used to always pass it off during previous builds, until the other day I decided to take it. Finding daedric items in a novice chest changed my tune on the thoughts of that perk.

As a thief, you can never have enough loot.

I have never invested in the Lockpicking tree ... until now. I wondered about that treasure perk. It seems it's worth having. I still don't think I'll ever fill out the whole tree unless I have perks to burn though.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I have never invested in the Lockpicking tree ... until now. I wondered about that treasure perk. It seems it's worth having. I still don't think I'll ever fill out the whole tree unless I have perks to burn though.

Well it's not like I needed perks elsewhere, besides I like hoarding treasure.

 

[WispD]

Personally I think your build is pretty good. Do you have the dragonborn dlc? If so you should take the perks out of speech. It's the most useless skill in the game without Lucan's 10000 gold glitch, imo.

No, I'm still playing the original vanilla game. If I downloaded the DLC or any of the expansion packs would I have to start over though?

 

[Panthera]

No, I'm still playing the original vanilla game. If I downloaded the DLC or any of the expansion packs would I have to start over though?

Nope.

 

[coinop25]

Agreed with everyone who said that Sneak, Alchemy, and Archery and/or One-Handed are all you really need. You can gradually build up Smithing if you want by smithing jewelry (which raises Smithing pretty fast), as you'll benefit quite a lot from the Arcane Blacksmith perk in the late game. It'll make all the funky unique armors available to thieves and assassins feel a lot more viable in the long run.

As for justifying early investment in magicka...

Illusion isn't really necessary in the long run, but the Quiet Casting perk also applies to shouts, making Aura Whisper an actual whisper. This is worth it. And Calm/Pacify can't be achieved with Alchemy, so you can always invest just one more perk point to make these spells affect pretty much everybody. It's a pretty nice effect to have if you get caught doing something illegal and don't want to kill anybody just to get away.

Alteration probably isn't worth investing in just for Paralyze (as I believe it requires four perks and around 150 base magicka just to be able to cast the thing at all), especially as you can get the same effect cheaply by sticking a poison onto your arrows.

Conjuration isn't actually terrible for a thief. Your summons can distract enemies while you sneak in behind them for the kill.

Destruction and Restoration probably aren't worth investing in at all if you're doing most damage from sneak attacks and getting most healing from potions.

Hope this helps.

 

[WispD]

You can gradually build up Smithing if you want by smithing jewelry

Y-you can craft jewelry with smithing? I had no idea! But how? Is there any particular type of jewelry I should try and make for myself, and for profit?

Illusion isn't really necessary in the long run, but the Quiet Casting perk also applies to shouts, making Aura Whisper an actual whisper. This is worth it. And Calm/Pacify can't be achieved with Alchemy, so you can always invest just one more perk point to make these spells affect pretty much everybody. It's a pretty nice effect to have if you get caught doing something illegal and don't want to kill anybody just to get away.

What perk would that be? Also, what are the practical applications to using Quiet Casting, Calm, and Pacify for a thief? Even without Quiet Casting, I never have noticed myself being heard casting illusion spells before near enemies. I've tried using Calm before on people I failed to pickpocket, but as soon as the spell wears off, they remember my crime, and call the guards. Lastly, my illusion is not high enough to get pacify I don't think. What does that do?

 

[coinop25]

Y-you can craft jewelry with smithing? I had no idea! But how? Is there any particular type of jewelry I should try and make for myself, and for profit?

When you go to a blacksmith's forge/anvil, there is a category for "Jewelry." If you are holding any Silver or Gold Ingots, you can craft necklaces and rings. If you are also holding any gems (amethysts, diamonds, etc.), you can craft even more valuable items. The higher value of the item you create, the more it improves your Smithing skill. (Edit to add: Don't forget that you need to turn gold ore into gold ingots before you can smith with it. You can do that at a smelter, which sits near the forges in Whiterun, Dawnstar, Markarth, and perhaps others I'm blanking on.)

My advice: Clear out Kolskeggr Mine (just north of Markarth) and mine the hell out of it. This will give you a ton of gold to turn into jewelry. Also hold onto any iron ore you find, as you can use the Transmute spell to turn it into gold or silver ore, which can then be made into jewelry as well. (If you don't have it, Transmute is in Halted Stream camp, northwest of Whiterun.)

What perk would that be? Also, what are the practical applications to using Quiet Casting, Calm, and Pacify for a thief? Even without Quiet Casting, I never have noticed myself being heard casting illusion spells before near enemies. I've tried using Calm before on people I failed to pickpocket, but as soon as the spell wears off, they remember my crime, and call the guards. Lastly, my illusion is not high enough to get pacify I don't think. What does that do?

Oh, the first perk on Illusion's middle tree (I forget what it's called) boosts the level of enemies you can affect with Calm spells. Combined with Kindred Mage and Animage (the prerequisites for Quiet Casting), this will let you cast Calm (or Pacify) on most enemies in the game. If you want to Calm guards too (who reach pretty high levels with you), you might also need Illusion Dual Casting in the long run. (Pacify is the same effect as Calm, but it affects higher-level enemies.)

And yeah, it's only a temporary effect, so you still need to deal with guards eventually. Fortunately, with Thieves Guild membership or Speech perks, you can get away with pretty much anything by bribing guards.

Edit to add: Oh, I forgot to answer "what are the practical applications..." Well, I definitely get noticed casting spells around enemies without the Quiet Casting perk, so maybe you're just more careful than I am. The most useful effect for a thief is using the Aura Whisper shout, which shows you the locations of all nearby enemies without alerting them to your presence. If you use it without this perk and anybody's in the room, it will probably go from hidden status to "bad guys looking for you" status (but not detected, necessarily). If you ever get tired of mixing invisibility potions, it's also nice to be able to cast Invisibility silently.

 

[WispD]

Well, I am a member of the thieves guild, and my Speech is at 50, so would it be really beneficial to take bribery with Speech? And what about persuation?

It is getting really annoying to have to save my game and reload it because I failed on a 90% chance to pickpocket somebody when I have a 100 sneak and 100 pickpocketing with equipment bonuses.

 

[coinop25]

Pickpocketing never gets higher than 90%, so you probably don't even need some of those equipment bonuses.

I don't know whether the Speech perk yields better bribery rates than Thieves Guild membership; might have to check the wikis on that (or someone else can chime in who's tried both). I've literally gotten away with murder for a couple hundred gold thanks to the Guild, though, IIRC.

Pretty sure the Persuasion perk bonus only applies to dialog with "(Persuade)" written in it, so it's irrelevant for getting guards off your back.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STAY AWAY FROM LOCK PICKING UNLESS YOU SUCK AT IT!

I can't disagree with you. I started upgrading my lockpicking skills from the getgo, but have found out - what's the point? I could pick an expert from about level 4 anyhow without any perks and the perks really don't make it that much easier. Just keep a good supply of picks and you're good to go 'cause, on some of the experts you might need 2 or three before you get it right. I think lockpicking is about finesse, not skill.

 

[Psiberzerker]

Lockpicking is a great skill to level up, then use the Perk points to get yourself something nice from the other trees. You can go to Hamvir's Rest, and just break Lockpicks on the Master Chest there pretty much any time. Don't do it all at once, you'll level screw yourself, but when you're ||this far away from that next level to get Critical charge, or impact, or Assassin's Blade, but you already qualify for it, hopefully you have a stack of picks to unlock the point. So's Speech, for that matter. I never want for money, especially when I'm running the TG, so vendor costs aren't as important to me as something that will do more damage, or give me a new capability.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

Since the patch, as many as you want.

 

[WispD]

Since the patch, as many as you want.

Why is that? Because of the Legendary thing? I thought you still ended up with the same amount of perks at the highest level.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

Why is that? Because of the Legendary thing? I thought you still ended up with the same amount of perks at the highest level.

It removes the level cap. You get perks past 81.

 

[WispD]

There's no level cap now at all you mean?

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

There's no level cap now at all you mean?

Yup. Anything past 81 gives you perks. So really, you don't need to limit yourself if you don't want to.

 

[WispD]

I'm guessing it takes a huge amount of time to get even one level when you're that high though.