Fast Food Wage Increase - USA

[kyleekay]

As I'm sure a lot of you know, fast food workers are currently staging protests/strikes across the US and demanding a wage increase. The general dollars-per-hour that they want seems to be $15. I believe the current minimum wage is in the $6-9 dollar range in most US states, depending on cost of living, etc.

In my opinion, $15/hour is way too much. I completely understand that fast food is no longer a job just for teenagers, and that many adults with children are holding these positions now, but that's a lot of money for not a lot of work/technical skill.

I would support a small wage increase- maybe $1-2 dollars more- just not what they're demanding. There are many people out there with college degrees who work in jobs far more complicated than fast food who make that amount of money (sometimes even less). I don't think that those people who spend a ton of money and time to better themselves professionally should be in the same salary bracket as someone who didn't have to do anything at all to get their job.

The foundation of their demand is that their employers are netting millions of dollars in profit (or more) each year. While it is most likely true that McDonalds etc could afford to pay them $15/hour, I just don't think it's right. Just because they can, doesn't mean they should.

I hope I didn't come off as insensitive in this post, and hopefully it doesn't offend anyone. Those who know me should know that's never my intention.

How do you guys feel about this issue?

 

[Lilpack]

Lilpack loves hamburger

~Lilpack

 

[Crooksin]

Wow, 6-9 dollars? That's so little. Here min wage is 10.25 ... and I can barely survive on that so I can just imagine. (Then again some things are generally cheaper there as well.). 15 is too much for fast food but 11-13? That sounds good. I work at a coffee shop and its actually a lot harder then you would think and personally 10.25 is not enough for the plops you have to deal with. 11-13 and I would more than okay. Or maybe 10.25 with some good benefits, either or.

As for the people with college degrees .. well that's their own fault really. YOU pick what you go for, its not my fault you went to college for blah blah and only ended up making 15/hr. I know that sucks but that's life. I would absolutely love to go to college/university for history but I also know that's its a waste of money because there is absolutely no jobs unless I want to make a teacher's salary .... and well I think I'll just stick to an interest of mine rather than a career.

Mcdonalds has more than enough to cover those wages but Mcdonalds is also in several different states, countries, provinces, continents with vastly different laws, regulations and wages. It's also a franchise business, which means every owner merely represents Mcdonalds and doesn't act on their behalf. They should be treated better in min wage jobs because 9/10 you will be treated like plops and they should regulate that.

Regardless, they won't get 15, no fluffing way lol. They might get a dollar or so and call it a day, they're shooting way too high there. It would serve them better to slowly increase their demands over time. For every one worker who protests over not making enough, there's about 10 who would do it for less. These people want more money? Then actually apply themselves and get skills to be qualified for better jobs. I think its more about people wanting to live comfortably without having to do anything for themselves, tbh.

 

[Dagmar]

Most fast food restaurants are franchises. That means that a wage increase hit's the franchisee owner of the fast food restaurant not the corporate franchisor like McDonalds. A demand for a wage increase is basically a demand that the small business owner pay for it out of his or her own pocket. Some franchisees are financially successful owning multiple successful stores and could afford it but a lot of them cannot, especially single franchise owners. All that would accomplish is killing off those businesses because no franchisee in their right mind is going to struggle to maintain a franchise just to make the equivalent of a middle class income. They may as well close up shop and take a non-entrepreneurial job for the same pay which is what some of them would do. These workers that are demanding a right to a fifteen dollar wage are demanding something that would ultimately result in many of them being unemployed.

These kind of jobs were never meant to provide a self-sustaining salary. As unskilled labor fast food restaurant jobs are only meant to be jobs that supplement a household's income. As a career the only upward movement is manager and you only need one of those for the entire store so it's a dead end job for almost everyone at the place and everyone knows it. If the workers want to get a better wage then they simply have to find a better job, one that was actually meant to provide a self sustaining salary. If they can't get one then they need to get the skills and network to get the connections to do so. There are no free rides in society. Everyone has to pay their dues whether it's through investing in a formal education that provides a marketable degree, struggling in a lower paying job while repeatedly applying for an apprentice position in a trade, serving in the military to gain marketable skills and experience etc.

 

[kyleekay]

Crooksin and Dagmar, I definitely agree with you two. The attitude that these employees have (woe is me, I'm a victim, etc) is ridiculous. No one should go into a fast food job thinking that they'll be able to work there forever. There's a reason most people consider fast food to be a job for teenagers looking for some extra cash.

The point about the franchise owners is good as well. I hadn't thought about the fact that the individual owners may be forced to go out of business for something like this.

 

[Medea]

What a bunch of Ebenezer Scrooges! Sheesh!

If CEOs wanted to rake up more money from the "bottom feeders" and screw everyone (as usual) they wouldn't have to perform some kind of public demonstration or change the law to do so. It would just happen.

Just because people are asking for 15 dollars an hour doesn't mean they are going to get it. I don't blame fast food workers for trying to get more money. Maybe if McDonald's gave it's employees better benefits, job security, or any fluffing rights at all they wouldn't need the pay increase.

All you used to need to get a decent job in this country is a high school education. Naturally, you could always get a MUCH better job with a college education, but things have changed over the years. A high school diploma now, gets you about as good of a job as an illegal immigrant or a felon. People went from saying "you need to get your diploma", to "you need to get your two year degree", to "you need to get your four year degree". Now it's hard to get a good paying career without a six year degree sometimes. Not to mention most people can't afford to go to college, and end up being in debt for the rest of their lives if they do go.

 

[Irish]

$15/hr? Jesus, that's more than what most people make with a degree these days working office jobs, etc. I can see $7-8 per hour for the average FF worker, but anything over that is too much. To perform the daily tasks (filling drink orders, flipping burgers, etc) at a fast food joint doesn't require a college degree or extended training, usually 1-2 weeks training suffices for one to get to know the ropes. The idea of someone working a fast food job making as much as someone with a degree or extensive training in their particular field is unfair to me, especially when comparing potential prerequisites of obtaining a fast food job and say, a job as a mechanic.

There are tons of programs out there that help low-income households and single parent households with financial aid for college, FAFSA being the big one (which is usually required when submitting college apps, anyway). Speaking with those who work at a school's Financial Aid office can be beneficial, too.

 

[kyleekay]

What a bunch of Ebenezer Scrooges! Sheesh!

If CEOs wanted to rake up more money from the "bottom feeders" and screw everyone (as usual) they wouldn't have to perform some kind of public demonstration or change the law to do so. It would just happen.

Just because people are asking for 15 dollars an hour doesn't mean they are going to get it. I don't blame fast food workers for trying to get more money. Maybe if McDonald's gave it's employees better benefits, job security, or any fluffing rights at all they wouldn't need the pay increase.

All you used to need to get a decent job in this country is a high school education. Naturally, you could always get a MUCH better job with a college education, but things have changed over the years. A high school diploma now, gets you about as good of a job as an illegal immigrant or a felon. People went from saying "you need to get your diploma", to "you need to get your two year degree", to "you need to get your four year degree". Now it's hard to get a good paying career without a six year degree sometimes. Not to mention most people can't afford to go to college, and end up being in debt for the rest of their lives if they do go.

I do understand that it's more difficult for people to find better paying jobs these days without college degrees, but it is certainly possible. I make great money for my age, and I've yet to complete college. I started in an office with an entry level position and worked my way up over the years. I think that's why I'm bothered by such a high-paying demand; they seem to want the benefit of all the extra money, without putting in the effort to actually earn it.

However I do agree that benefits should be given to employees who want it.

 

[Irish]

Benefits should at least be offered to employees if they're not provided for in the first place, I agree.

(Had to edit that part in.)

 

[Medea]

Benefits should at least be offered to employees if they're not provided for in the first place, I agree.

 

[Irish]

Benefits should at least be offered to employees if they're not provided for in the first place, I agree.

LOL! Well, you did say you were going to "turn" me liberal last night, Medea.

 

[Medea]

Benefits should at least be offered to employees if they're not provided for in the first place, I agree.

LOL! Well, you did say you were going to "turn" me liberal last night, Medea.

Fifty Shades of Commie Red

 

[kyleekay]

What kind of cookies are we talking about, here? That's extremely important. I'm not switching sides for crappy cookies.

 

[Medea]

Peanut butter cookies, chocolate chip cookies, thin mints and nookie cookies, all served warm and gooey.

thread locking in 5...4...3...

 

[Dagmar]

If CEOs wanted to rake up more money from the "bottom feeders" and screw everyone (as usual) they wouldn't have to perform some kind of public demonstration or change the law to do so. It would just happen.

That's a bit of a straw man. The decision isn't in the hands of the CEO's. Wage laws apply to the employer not the franchisor. Legally there's no way you can make a franchisor be responsible for employee wages and a franchisee is in no position to negotiate for indemnification or credit for increased wages for employess from the franchisor. That's just not how the real world with a free market economy works. The tail doesn't wag the dog. Some franchisors are squeezing every last nickel and dime they can from the franchisee as it is, inducing net losses in purchases with forced special sales like dollar menu items. What workers are proposing will simply break a lot of these store owners and cause the stores to close.

All you used to need to get a decent job in this country is a high school education. Naturally, you could always get a MUCH better job with a college education, but things have changed over the years. A high school diploma now, gets you about as good of a job as an illegal immigrant or a felon.

NYC police, firefighters and sanitation workers all get paid a good wage, excellent benefits, overtime, early retirement after 20 years of service, and receive guaranteed pension payment of half their salary including overtime for the rest of their life. Some of them also get supplemental retirement compensation on an annual basis and they continue to receive low cost health care for life. NYC transit workers receive similar benefits. None of these positions require a college degree.

(One of my friends is a first lieutenant in the NYPD. He can retire in another 9 years with a projected pension payment of $65k a year. He said he may use the money to finish out his degree and get a job as a teacher, which will allow him to retire at 61 for that job and receive a second pension with a similar structure).

A journeyman gets paid anywhere from $14 to $40+ depending on their trade and experience. This also doesn't require a college degree. It's actually one of the more viable career paths for an ex felon to pursue because the industry believes in giving second chances.

A college degree =/= a key to a better standard of living. That's a load of horsepl*** that the college industry tries to sell in its attempt to justify its unwarranted and out of control tuition and administration fees. Several decades ago no one entertained the notion that a college degree equated to a better paying job. It was done simply to make the person better educated. Colleges have created the current fiction because if they didn't, they couldn't get away with charging what they do nowadays.

The nation is overcoddling its youth by selling them a fairy tale that everyone is entitled to a college education (they're not) and that everyone can reap a net benefit from college for their investment (they don't). It's a close relative to the fairy tale that everyone is entitled to own their own home which contributed to the Great Recession. We really need to STFU with this nonsense and acknowledge that college isn't for everyone and that many people are better off pursuing alternate career paths as they did decades ago.

 

[Dagmar]

What kind of cookies are we talking about, here? That's extremely important. I'm not switching sides for crappy cookies.

The secret ingredient is the special butter....

 

[Crooksin]

Yeah, government jobs are probably some of the best out there and not needing a college degree is an attractive bonus to them. Most kids straight outta college don't even get a job in their field or getting a very low-paying entry job. Government jobs usually pay more then those entry level jobs with benefits and you don't need to fork out 30 grand first.

I've put in my military application and start basic in 3 months. My long-term plan is to go for MP (military police) and after a couple, or few, years in the military switch over to the civilian side and make even more money. While doing this I will also take advantage of the military benefit of getting paid college, so I will have a degree and be debt-free (I always felt I needed to go to college for something to fall back on but don't want to be paying for tuition fees 10 years after). My father (who's been in the military for 25 years) told me to specialize before I even get enlisted so I make more money and I don't become just another grunt. If you worry about joining the military because of the war, specialize and don't get put into infantry (or any front-line position), there's plenty. Another good mention is the fact that employers will be crawling over eachother to hire you if you are ex-military.

Becoming a cop is quite a recent dream of mine but I've always seen the importance of government jobs and is something I've always went for. You don't even need college but there is ways to get it without paying a cent, you just have to try.

 

[KaitoGhost]

$15 an hour for flipping burgers? That's more than I make for working physical labor!

 

[kyleekay]

Seems like the majority of people agree that much of a raise is a bit ridiculous, and I have a feeling that's probably the general consensus nationwide. Hopefully the companies and the employees can find a reasonable middle ground.

 

[Cylos]

I always went for the Jobs>Wage perspective. Its a large amount of money concerning other workers at their class level, but economists have cited that in America in realistic terms that everyone's wages have gone down or stagnated whist the top 1% and 0.1% have had their wage skyrocket from taking a larger amount from the national 'share of the pie'.
I'd rather America have an economic model similar to before Reaganomics, money was much greatly distributed, so there wouldn't be these arguments over 'Oh why are they getting more money than me over unskilled work' and rather everyone's wages would be pushed up, regardless of the bis business/ small business difference.
Source of my argument- Joseph E Stiglitz