blades or graybeards

[DrunkenMage]

Hmm, when you ask Delphine who she is, she says:
"I'm one of the last members of the Blades. A very long time ago, the Blades were dragonslayers, and we served the Dragonborn, the greatest dragonslayer. For the last two hundred years, since the last Dragonborn emperor, the Blades have been searching for a purpose. Now that dragons are coming back, our purpose is clear again. We need to stop them."

Past tense, served. Also the second line starting with "A very long time ago".

 

[ecozombie]

If that's the case, then it is interesting that both characters that give you this help are both voiced by the same person, Max von Sydow

Interesting! I didn't know that. That's pretty cool.


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[TheQahnaarin]

You can get most of both side's benefits before you pick a side so it doesn't matter too much strategically. It comes down more to preference or role play purposes. As someone who played Oblivion, Delphine is breaking from tradition a lot and (it seems to me anyway) manipulating you way too much.

 

[Anouck]

Depends how I'm feeling on that character. I don't blame the Blades giving me their demand, as much as people want to complain about them "serving" you. They don't serve you, the Blades served the Dragonborn Emperors. They're going back to being Dragonguard and not once do they ever actually swear an oath to you.

"You serve me Blades!"

"When did we say that?"

"That time at... When you uh.. Around the.. Shut up with your Akaviri logic!"

Yet I don't think they should bigmouth someone they need so badly. The Dragonborn can do without the blades. But the blades can't do without the Dragonborn.

...You are Buzz Lightyear, they are Mr. Potato Head.

 

[Ivory]

...You are Buzz Lightyear, they are Mr. Potato Head.

The imagery of this made me chuckle.

Also, Greybeards. Seriously. I'm all for giving the Thalmor a black eye, but being treated like dirt after showing loyalty to the blades and then expected to kill the one Dragon in all of Skyrim who defies his very nature to continue to teach for Kyne, while his father is Akatosh, God of Time?

Yeah, go fluff yourself Delphine. You're not a blade, just a paranoid old woman who's past her years in usefulness.

 

[DrunkenMage]

...You are Buzz Lightyear, they are Mr. Potato Head.

The imagery of this made me chuckle.

Also, Greybeards. Seriously. I'm all for giving the Thalmor a black eye, but being treated like dirt after showing loyalty to the blades and then expected to kill the one Dragon in all of Skyrim who defies his very nature to continue to teach for Kyne, while his father is Akatosh, God of Time?

Yeah, go fluff yourself Delphine. You're not a blade, just a paranoid old woman who's past her years in usefulness.

How does he defy his nature? His last speech actually reinforces the fact he is still driven by the dominating nature. He seeks to control the Dragons with the power of his Thu'um, now that Alduin is out of the way he takes his place as the head Dragon.

He just used mankind to achieve his goal. Much like that Dragon who sought to use Necromancy to achieve his. Akatosh is the "father" of all Dragons. You must defeat Alduin because he defied his task to destroy the world, so technically speaking, you don't owe Akatosh much.

 

[Ivory]

How does he defy his nature? His last speech actually reinforces the fact he is still driven by the dominating nature. He seeks to control the Dragons with the power of his Thu'um, now that Alduin is out of the way he takes his place as the head Dragon.

He just used mankind to achieve his goal. Much like that Dragon who sought to use Necromancy to achieve his. Akatosh is the "father" of all Dragons. You must defeat Alduin because he defied his task to destroy the world, so technically speaking, you don't owe Akatosh much.

That's speculation. Paar says "Willing or no, they will hear it." There will always be dragons that preferred Alduin's leadership over Paar's. Just as you and I prefer the Empire over the Aldmeri Dominion. The Dragon's have free will and choice to follow who they wish, this is proven not only when Odahviing tells you how many of the Dragons began to question Alduin's Lordship after his first defeat, or when he chooses to serve you because the Dragonborn was worthy of it, but as you mentioned, the Dragon who chose to use Necromancy. The Dragons have as much free will as mortals do, they chose to fight for themselves or under the rule of a leader, like mortals.

Dragons by their very nature want to dominate, I'd imagine it takes a LOT to make a dragon serve another person willingly, ignoring the illusion Shout that Herma-Mora teaches you, and even that shout doesn't last long.

Every sentient being in Tamriel has free will, they make choices. Paar chose to defy his urge to dominate the humans, chose to teach the Dragonborn, chose to betray his own brother and is making the choice to teach other Dragons the Way of the Voice probably so mortals and dragons can at the very least, tolerate each other if not live in peace. If he really cared to dominate his fellow dragons, he would have taken Odahviing with him, by force, which probably would have ended with you both fighting.

 

[DrunkenMage]

That's speculation. Paar says "Willing or no, they will hear it." There will always be dragons that preferred Alduin's leadership over Paar's. Just as you and I prefer the Empire over the Aldmeri Dominion. The Dragon's have free will and choice to follow who they wish, this is proven not only when Odahviing tells you how many of the Dragons began to question Alduin's Lordship after his first defeat, or when he chooses to serve you because the Dragonborn was worthy of it, but as you mentioned, the Dragon who chose to use Necromancy. The Dragons have as much free will as mortals do, they chose to fight for themselves or under the rule of a leader, like mortals.

He also says "Many of the dovahhe are now scattered across Keizaal. Without Alduin's lordship, they may yet bow to the vahzen... rightness of my Thu'um." I'm not saying every single Dragon will follow Paarthurnax, just that Paarthurnax isn't rejecting his nature. He's merely trying to dominate through the Way of the Voice.

I'm not sure where you're getting that I've said the Dragons don't have free will or choice? Philosophy is the most important thing to them, it is why they do battle in the Thu'um. Battle and debate are the same to them.

Dragons by their very nature want to dominate, I'd imagine it takes a LOT to make a dragon serve another person willingly, ignoring the illusion Shout that Herma-Mora teaches you, and even that shout doesn't last long.

Except you're not another "person". To the Dragons, you're one of them a Dovah. It isn't a new thing for a Dragon to serve/follow another Dragon. It takes mastery over their Thu'um, proving your dominance. They either accept your Lordship, flee or die.

Every sentient being in Tamriel has free will, they make choices. Paar chose to defy his urge to dominate the humans, chose to teach the Dragonborn, chose to betray his own brother and is making the choice to teach other Dragons the Way of the Voice probably so mortals and dragons can at the very least, tolerate each other if not live in peace. If he really cared to dominate his fellow dragons, he would have taken Odahviing with him, by force, which probably would have ended with you both fighting.

Paar chose to defy Alduin, because he in turn had defied Akatosh. Alduin was only bad because he wanted to rule over humans and dragons, not destroy them all. Now Paar is following the same trap, defying how Akatosh made him to be.

He'd be stupid if he tried to force Odahviing and fight you. Your Thu'um is above his, above Alduin. If he really cared to dominate his fellow Dragons, he'd wait until you were dead. You are the Last Dragonborn. He waited thousands of years, I'm sure another fifty wouldn't hurt.

Paarthurnax doesn't fully trust you anyway, since you're another Dovah.

It is interesting though, the whole Blades vs Greybeards. Paarthurnax believes the Blades to be wise. You're given a complex choice, do you kill the Dragon who helped you? Or forgive him for atrocities so damning they are remembered for thousands of years.

Edit: I wonder if Nafaalilargus was revived. Empire could have their "jewel" back.

 

[Ivory]

He also says "Many of the dovahhe are now scattered across Keizaal. Without Alduin's lordship, they may yet bow to the vahzen... rightness of my Thu'um." I'm not saying every single Dragon will follow Paarthurnax, just that Paarthurnax isn't rejecting his nature. He's merely trying to dominate through the Way of the Voice.

I'm not sure where you're getting that I've said the Dragons don't have free will or choice? Philosophy is the most important thing to them, it is why they do battle in the Thu'um. Battle and debate are the same to them.

He rejected it for many, many years. The Dragons need a new leader with Alduin gone. Who else better to guide the dragons at that point?

The argument was up until then he had indeed defied his nature. To defy their nature, like Paar, is choice. Just as they choose to attack mortals, you, worship other gods and so on.

Except you're not another "person". To the Dragons, you're one of them a Dovah. It isn't a new thing for a Dragon to serve/follow another Dragon. It takes mastery over their Thu'um, proving your dominance. They either accept your Lordship, flee or die.

Only one Dragon accepts your Mastery to serve you, the rest either continue to serve Alduin, or serve Paar or just probably be solo.

Paar chose to defy Alduin, because he in turn had defied Akatosh. Alduin was only bad because he wanted to rule over humans and dragons, not destroy them all. Now Paar is following the same trap, defying how Akatosh made him to be.

I'm not sure I follow. Alduin didn't defy Akatosh. He ruled over the dragons and worked to destroy everything. Where did he actively defy his destiny?

He'd be stupid if he tried to force Odahviing and fight you. Your Thu'um is above his, above Alduin. If he really cared to dominate his fellow Dragons, he'd wait until you were dead. You are the Last Dragonborn. He waited thousands of years, I'm sure another fifty wouldn't hurt.

Or kill Odahviing when you aren't around him. I never said it would happen then and there, but we're arguing about something that is only speculation which I hate arguing about because that can go on forever.

It is interesting though, the whole Blades vs Greybeards.
Edit: I wonder if Nafaalilargus was revived. Empire could have their "jewel" back.

That's an interesting idea. Maybe we'll see something in the future.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I'm not sure I follow. Alduin didn't defy Akatosh. He ruled over the dragons and worked to destroy everything. Where did he actively defy his destiny?

Alduin's destiny and purpose is to end time, he's the World-Eater. He never worked to destroy everything, but took for himself Lordship which is supposed to be Akatosh. Instead of ending the world, he chose to be worshipped, him and the other Dragons thus became Gods to mankind. Bestowing gifts to their faithful Priests, who erected monuments to them and offered sacrifices.

The Dragon War came when man rebelled against the tyranny of the Dragon Cult. Not because Alduin was destroying everything.