PS3 Bethesda, patch the arrow crafting

[Dagmar]

I have experience with talking to and helping lots of the average playerbase, and quite frankly none of them feel like master difficutly is a necessity, or would scoff at the idea of more options in a game filled with options. I'm not trying to belittle you, but you obviously got offended.

I didn't get offended. I simply called you out on a rather outlandish claim that you're now backpedaling from. You haven't even defined what you consider the "average playerbase" in any way that makes it meaningful. All you've established is that you have experience talking with and helping lots of people who share common characteristics that you can identify. If you want to equate "the majority of the people that Black-Tongue has helped and spoken with" to the "average playerbase" that's fine but that's all the weight it carries.

You know that thing called the atronach forge? Smiths daedric armor without investing in smithing. Conjures atronachs without investing in conjuration. Is it a pain to get all the stuff together to do it? Yes. Does it expand the boundaries of player class and give you more options? Yes. Does it provide more roleplay opportunity? Yes. Does it break the game? No, absolutely not.

That's pretty much the direction I was shooting for with the idea of the salts. I'm sorry that you do not like it.

That's an extremely weak analogy. This is a thread about making arrows craftable, i.e. being able to make them at a Forge with Smithing skill. Everything you posted up to this point was also in that context whether you're willing to accede the point or not. Notwithstanding it's name the Atronach Forge is not a crafting forge and has nothing to do with crafting. It doesn't "Smith" anything. It conjures things up which is why it's tied to the school of Conjuration magic and is why you can't use the Atronach Forge to make any Daedric armor or weapons without having Conjuration skill of 90 or higher. It's not some simple workaround to making Daedric armor without the perk that all players can use. The Atronachs it conjures are hostile so it's not a proxy for conjuring Atronachs either. If you want to implement more game content that allows you to make items outside of the crafting system with those kind of game mechanics I don't have any issue with that but don't pretend that that's in the same neighborhood as a discussion about making arrows craftable. It's not even in the same zip code.

 

[Drewski]

Enchanted arrows is a rather silly idea. It wouldn't work. A grand Soul Gem for just one arrow? Of course not, so you'd have to enchant say a quiver of arrows (c. 20). But that doesn't exist in the game. Also, if you could enchant arrows, that would mean at 100 enchanting (+ a poison), you could have 5 seperate effects from one arrow (2 from bow, 2 from arrow + poison)...a bit of overkill there........

Smithing arrows is a nice idea, but I think you'd have to forget about feathers- they are just too rare. Maybe firewood/ Iron/steel ingots for the lower arrows, then actually having a metal shaft + relevant metal ingot for the mid/better ones. E.g. Corundum + Malachite. You'd still have to take the smithing perks.

 

[Black-Tongue]

I didn't get offended. I simply called you out on a rather outlandish claim that you're now backpedaling from.

There is nothing outlandish about anything I said, and I don't see where I am going back on my original stance. I did not even intend to have an argument, but since you apparently have a strong need to assert yourself over something rather silly, here we are.

The Forge makes deadric armor and weapons previously unattainable to someone without crafting and enchanting skills, but who does have conjuration. Just the same as if elemental arrows could be made by someone who does not have enchanting skills, but does have a smithing skill. Who said it had to be a simple workaround? You are still just trading one skill for another in either situation.

Anyways, it ceases to matter. There is not much more to contribute to the discussion in this fashion. If you want to use PM's that's fine, but I'm not cluttering up the thread with anything else related to this.




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Original topic:

The rarity of feathers would not be a huge problem. They could add them into random loot more frequently, or give birds/hagravens more feathers to drop. Maybe some argonians should drop feathers too!

 

[Dagmar]

Smithing arrows is a nice idea, but I think you'd have to forget about feathers- they are just too rare.

There are over a dozen hawks that fly around the East Empire Company Warehouse and several that fly around the area of Solitude. Smithing arrows without feathers just seems a bit off since feathers end up actually being part of the arrow. Apothecaries also sometimes sell them.

 

[Drewski]

There are over a dozen hawks that fly around the East Empire Company Warehouse and several that fly around the area of Solitude. Smithing arrows without feathers just seems a bit off since feathers end up actually being part of the arrow. Apothecaries also sometimes sell them.

I completely agree in sentiment, but Bethesda would have to think of the average player, and it would be impractical. Also would you really want to keep having to go back to Solitude all the time (especially as a RP char)? And you'd have to each hawk harvest 20+ feathers to make it work, which would make catching diseases (and associated potions) no longer a game concern.

 

[junta]

If they would go to all that trouble to add arrow crafting, why would it be a problem to add more feathers available in shops?

 

[Dagmar]

I completely agree in sentiment, but Bethesda would have to think of the average player, and it would be impractical. Also would you really want to keep having to go back to Solitude all the time (especially as a RP char)? And you'd have to each hawk harvest 20+ feathers to make it work, which would make catching diseases (and associated potions) no longer a game concern.

They could create another Hawk area in Stormcloak territory to address the RP issue (there are actually over a dozen in Winterhold Hold but they aren't concentrated like they are in Solitude). Regarding the harvesting numbers, you're assuming a 1 feather to 1 arrow ratio for crafting which doesn't have to be the case. As I posted earlier while it's not particularly realistic to have 1 feather cover 20 arrows, it's also not particularly realistic to have a hawk yield only 1-3 feathers. It's a balance issue regarding the power of feathers to cure disease (and not a particularly serious one either - I usually collect over 2 dozen cure disease potions and hawk feathers during the course of doing the Companions quest due to the ignorant belief of Silver Hands that lycanthropy is a communicable disease, and there's an abundance of Shrines in the game) and it would be a balance issue of making harvesting them practical to have 1 feather cover several arrows.

 

[cebo]

good idea make sense

 

[Drewski]

They could create another Hawk area in Stormcloak territory to address the RP issue (there are actually over a dozen in Winterhold Hold but they aren't concentrated like they are in Solitude). Regarding the harvesting numbers, you're assuming a 1 feather to 1 arrow ratio for crafting which doesn't have to be the case. As I posted earlier while it's not particularly realistic to have 1 feather cover 20 arrows, it's also not particularly realistic to have a hawk yield only 1-3 feathers. It's a balance issue regarding the power of feathers to cure disease (and not a particularly serious one either - I usually collect over 2 dozen cure disease potions and hawk feathers during the course of doing the Companions quest due to the ignorant belief of Silver Hands that lycanthropy is a communicable disease, and there's an abundance of Shrines in the game) and it would be a balance issue of making harvesting them practical to have 1 feather cover several arrows.

Ok, that would work, but I personally would hate having to do it. I spend far too much time scouring the [ground] horizon for bears and cats as my archer; I very rarely look skyward (unless the dragon music starts of course), and have never yet felt the inclination to go shooting hawks. Also the Comp Quest is VERY optional (I personally did it once, didn't enjoy it and won't do it again)......

Hmm.., actually on second thoughts no. If you're going to implement a new crafting method, then you'd have to compare with what already exists. You'd have to compare feathers to leather, as being the plentiful non-lvl dependent ingredient. Therefore they'd have to give all blacksmiths a stock of feathers. Which again would make catching diseases a non issue.

Ok 3rd option (which might just work). Introduce a new item just called `feathers`, that is not an ingredient and is soley used for crafting. Have Hawks and maybe Hargravens drop them (in addition to what already exists), and have Blacksmiths and shops sell them ( logically fletchers would have the most). Cost should obviously be balanced. Maybe have bandits (bandit archers in particular) drop them too.

That way, it doesn't upset any existing balances, doesn't make Bosmer `resist disease` pointless even at low lvls, doesn't need any new spawn areas and maybe works. I just don't see the majority of people being too happy, with the thought of having to go and shoot hawks in very particular areas every time they wanted to make new arrows.
IRL (so I've just read) most arrow feathers were goose in the old world and turkey in the new world, but since neither exist in Skyrim, I'm not sure what they make all the arrows with...maybe chicken feathers?


Apologies for the long, rambling tone, been a long,rambling type of day....