Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

Speak of the Devil... eerie how she can do that.

 

[tx12001]

like-wise but their is also a part in that book at states that some elves ca not conceive at all
question - how do you remember half of those things, I am speaking from memory of an event that happened several months ago - alas I have not read the pocket guide to the empire. but I have got
a mod in skyrim which adds 177 books from the previous 4 games into skyrim including ones from daggerfall and arena if that had any books in it, P.S what Platform is you game on?

 

[Dagmar]

...the 4th legion of the imperial army, while it took most of the army to fend off the dominions army

The Imperial Legion in Skyrim is not "the Fourth Legion". The fact that you entertain this misguided notion is indicative of the ultimate psuedo lore resource you're relying upon. There is absolutely no reference to what number the Imperial Legion bears in Skyrim or that even that it is a single Legion. I know this because I asked one of the other contributors of the Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages who has access to the raw data files of the game to check for any reference to the Legion in Skyrim as "the Fourth Legion" before removing any such references to the Legion in Skyrim in any UESP articles.

The Elder Scrolls Wikia site is a source of a lot of misinformation about the lore of the games, including the myth of the Fourth Legion, because the administrators do a relatively poor job of maintaining the integrity of its lore articles compared to sites like UESP and the Imperial Library. Far too many of the articles fail to cite any source for their claims and there is way too much subjective opinion and speculation in many articles that blatantly violate basic wiki standards for content.

Just to give you an idea of how badly the site is maintained if you go to the talk page for the article on the "Fourth Legion" at that site you'll see that the verfiabilty of the claim that it's the "Fourth Legion" was questioned over seven months ago and absolutley nothing has been done about it to date. It took me less than one day to get a response from one of the major contributors to UESP to confirm what I suspected so that we could purge that misinformation from the UESP site.

In case it still escapes you, nothing published on any third party website in and of itself constitutes lore. Lore comes strictly from three sources:

1. Information culled from the actual game content itself, including readable documents that can be found in the games, observable events that occur in the games, conversations and dialogues that the player can hear/read in the game either passively or by elicitng responses through active conversation with NPC's, and observable intended game mechanics (e.g. racial powers, artifacts, enchantments, spells and alchemy).

2. Information published by Bethesda and asserted as part of the lore (e.g. both ediitions of the Pocket Guide to the Empire, the Redguard comic book, the Q&A sessions with the developers of the Elder Scrolls Online game, and the already published information about the lore ESO).

3. Sources officially adopted by Bethesda as canon (e.g. the two Elder Scrolls Novels, The Infernal City and Lord of Souls).

Nothing else is lore. Anything claimed to be lore on a third party site like the Elder Scrolls Wikia or the Unoffical Elder Scrolls Pages that does not and cannot cite to a source that falls into one of the above three categories is not lore and is either speculation or outright fabrication. If you begin to examine the derth of citation to sources in the lore articles at the Eder Scrolls Wikia site you'll begin to understand why it's become a bit of a running joke among players that are well informed about the lore of the Elder Scrolls universe.

In general the utility of a third party site when looking for lore information is its ability to point you in the right direction to finding actual primary source in the games or elsewhere. It's intellectually lazy to blindly rely on the information at a third party website, especially if it doesn't even site a source for the information. People who conduct themselves in that way and then purport to be informed on the lore of the games are ultimately setting themselves up for a potentially big fall in a public forum that will make them look ignorant and foolish.

 

[tx12001]

are you like playing skyrim while you write that? also I wrote what you responded to like 1 hour ago and already got into argument with another, do not start, I must ay however that your notion of in-game law is astounding, tell me who was Uriel VII-s father

 

[Dagmar]

are you like playing skyrim while you write that? also I wrote what you responded to like 1 hour ago and already got into argument with another, do not start

Last time I checked, there wasn't a coup where you assumed ownership of this forum. I can post what I want when I want as long as it doesn't violate the site's TOS or community guidelines and I will post whenever I believe a proposition about the lore of the game needs to be clarified, qualified or refuted. I made this clear to you several posts ago.

 

[tx12001]

I was not Implying any disrespect, it is just your information is astounding, here is a simple Question
how powerful would a Dragonborn Vampire Lord be lore-wise, if he had defeated Harkon and Miraak?
and defeated Alduin

and I was not Trying to assume ownership of anything, I just said that I would rather not get into this again

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

...Pretty powerful I guess.

 

[Raijin]

When Heimskr is shouting about Elves.. he should be shouting about Ulfric.


But what of tomorrow? What then? Do the elves take your homes? Your businesses? Your children? Your very lives?

The only people taking away homes, businesses and lives are the Stormcloaks. Many Non-Nord Shop owners struggle to even remain open because the Stormcloaks refuse to buy from anyone who isn't a Nord.

I fail to see Ulfric Stormcloak and his Stormcloak army taking away peoples homes, businesses, snatching peoples children away, and not but least purposely killing people for pure pleasure. In fact In Skyrim we all saw how the Imperial legion was willing to execute someone (You) who's name wasn't even on the list. Spare me the excuse because theirs no excuse for what they were about to do.

Calixto Corrium (An Imperial) seems to be doing just fine living in the heart of Stormcloak territory because he comfortably in a mansion.
Nurelion (Altmer) and Quintus Navale (Imperial) seems to be doing just well with their Apothecary shop
Revyn Sadri (OMG a Dunmer!!!!) seems to be doing rather good with his pawn shop. In fact those no good rotten racist Windhelm/Stormcloak supporting guards keeps referencing people to go to his shop “You should unload some of that unwanted gear. Head over to Sadri's Used Wares, talk to the Elf.”
Niranye (Altmer) seems to be doing rather good at her vendor shop. I see Nord NPC's going near her shop all the time.
Viola Giordano (Imperial) Has a nice size mansion in Windhelm. While we don't know for sure what her line of work is in... shes obviously making money to afford the mansion.

You're making an assumption that Stormcloaks are purposely targeting none-Nord shops over 2 people in Whiterun; Arcadia (Imperial) and Adrianne Avenicci (Imperial). I have not seen a shop owner who went out of business over a Stormcloak victory. Perhaps you can guide me to this particular NPC if I am incorrect in my statement. I haven't played Skyrim in such a long time. Feel free to refreshed my memory.

 

[Raijin]

I was not Implying any disrespect, it is just your information is astounding, here is a simple Question
how powerful would a Dragonborn Vampire Lord be lore-wise, if he had defeated Harkon and Miraak?
and defeated Alduin

and I was not Trying to assume ownership of anything, I just said that I would rather not get into this again

What does that have to do with Stormcloak and the Imperial legion?

 

[tx12001]

How powerful exactly Do you think someone who had a more powerful thu'um than Miraak
and was a stronger vampire LordThan harkon would go against say, a Deadric Lord - On Mundus not Oblivion
and he had Storm call and Slow time and Dragon Aspect, infact if he had all shouts and all vampire perks and was at a high level, This is lore wise not game wise so he could most lickly shout in VL form, and neither could summon anything to assist them

 

[dovakiihn@skyrim]

And why should I pick one over the other? So far neither have shown me that one is better or worse than the other, they both have their bad and good qualities. Many say Stormcloaks because the name sounds cool, but I want to side for a reason, not the name.

I'm a male Khajiit (Destruction mage)

Please help me D:

EDIT: I really want to keep being a mage so does one of them have classes or can I just stay been a mage.

I only started playing 4 days ago and i have never played any other TES.

It depends I quess. The Imperial storyline is better though. Besides, you get to kill Ulfric at the end. I'm not sure if you kill the Whiterun Jarls as Stirmcloaks though.

 

[dovakiihn@skyrim]

And why should I pick one over the other? So far neither have shown me that one is better or worse than the other, they both have their bad and good qualities. Many say Stormcloaks because the name sounds cool, but I want to side for a reason, not the name.

I'm a male Khajiit (Destruction mage)

Please help me D:

EDIT: I really want to keep being a mage so does one of them have classes or can I just stay been a mage.

I only started playing 4 days ago and i have never played any other TES.

It's realy just your choice.

 

[tx12001]

It is more logical however if you join the Imperial's if you are an Imperial and a Stormcloak if you are a Nord but their are some nords who fight for the empire, but I don't recall any Imperials fighting for the stormcloaks

 

[tx12001]

And why should I pick one over the other? So far neither have shown me that one is better or worse than the other, they both have their bad and good qualities. Many say Stormcloaks because the name sounds cool, but I want to side for a reason, not the name.

I'm a male Khajiit (Destruction mage)

Please help me D:

EDIT: I really want to keep being a mage so does one of them have classes or can I just stay been a mage.

I only started playing 4 days ago and i have never played any other TES.

It depends I quess. The Imperial storyline is better though. Besides, you get to kill Ulfric at the end. I'm not sure if you kill the Whiterun Jarls as Stirmcloaks though.

The Civil war storyline felt a bit to much like a guild questline
and really at the end of it all what do you have to show for it

 

[tx12001]

Best to just ignore the whole thing, Because Many NPCs will act like ulfric is still alive if you finish the Imperial side, ao will several people act like tullius is still alive after you do the stormcloak side

 

[tx12001]

would you Nords have had the guts to go against a Dragonborn Emporer? like a Septim

 

[original_funk]

Best to just ignore the whole thing

Of course a High Thalmor Justiciar wouldn't want the dragonborn to get involved and put an end to the war

 

[tx12001]

Interesting Quote, the Only Dragonborn I know is a Powerful Imperial Vampire Lord that sided with the Empire

 

[DrunkenMage]

I fail to see Ulfric Stormcloak and his Stormcloak army taking away peoples homes, businesses, snatching peoples children away, and not but least purposely killing people for pure pleasure. In fact In Skyrim we all saw how the Imperial legion was willing to execute someone (You) who's name wasn't even on the list. Spare me the excuse because theirs no excuse for what they were about to do.

No one mentioned killing for pure pleasure. They do however put some businesses on the line to due racial belief.

The Imperial Legion assumed you were a Stormcloak, you and Lokir were thought to be rebels and the only people who knew otherwise was Ralof and the Stormcloaks. Not once did they renounce your involvement, he was willing to let you die for their cause. You as the player do not even say anything, except your name. So spare me the notion of killing for pleasure, even Ulfric Stormcloak considers you a criminal, the Legion thought you were a rebel. You were caught with Ulfric and his top lieutenants / personal bodyguards. You were caught in the same ambush, not six miles down the road.

"So long as your criminal past stays in the past, and you fight for me with honor and integrity, we'll welcome you into our ranks." - Ulfric Stormcloak

Calixto Corrium (An Imperial) seems to be doing just fine living in the heart of Stormcloak territory because he comfortably in a mansion.
Nurelion (Altmer) and Quintus Navale (Imperial) seems to be doing just well with their Apothecary shop
Revyn Sadri (OMG a Dunmer!!!!) seems to be doing rather good with his pawn shop. In fact those no good rotten racist Windhelm/Stormcloak supporting guards keeps referencing people to go to his shop “You should unload some of that unwanted gear. Head over to Sadri's Used Wares, talk to the Elf.”
Niranye (Altmer) seems to be doing rather good at her vendor shop. I see Nord NPC's going near her shop all the time.
Viola Giordano (Imperial) Has a nice size mansion in Windhelm. While we don't know for sure what her line of work is in... shes obviously making money to afford the mansion.

Calixto is quite the serial killer, Niranye has connections and has just arrived into Windhelm. I wouldn't exactly call houses in Windhelm mansions, being inside several of them and seeing the state of that city, it's far from Rosethorn Hall.

Now you are right that they are living there, many of which have lived there before Ulfric became Jarl of Windhelm. Ulfric generally doesn't seem to care much about Windhelm, except forcing Dunmer into a slum and Argonians forbidden from entering the city walls. Though Windhelm isn't the prime example of a lovely society, many Stormcloaks, the majority of Stormcloaks are against outsiders.

You're making an assumption that Stormcloaks are purposely targeting none-Nord shops over 2 people in Whiterun; Arcadia (Imperial) and Adrianne Avenicci (Imperial). I have not seen a shop owner who went out of business over a Stormcloak victory. Perhaps you can guide me to this particular NPC if I am incorrect in my statement. I haven't played Skyrim in such a long time. Feel free to refreshed my memory.

The game doesn't progress much after the Civil War, but it is mentioned those shop owners are struggling by and one thinks of closing up shop.

Well first of all, I would say we don't need you...

Let that sink in for a moment.


Skyrim can take of itself in many ways. True, we'd be crazy to halt all trade coming thru Skyrim but then again, that's more money going back into the country after all right? We don't have to worry about the Imperium stepping in and stripping out all our profits on the tariffs, among other things. You need us. Think about it.

Trade into Skyrim is mostly from the East Empire Company, backed by the Emperor and Empire, officials are generally picked by the Imperium. The East Empire Company is an Imperial influence and is something Stormcloaks are against.

"When we're done rooting out Imperial influence here at home, then we will take our war to the Aldmeri Dominion."

I mean we can go round and round about this, however it was YOUR Emperor who signed that damned treaty (among others treaties I'm sure) without the GD common courtesy of allowing the Nord people or the Jarls or the HIGH KING OF ALL PEOPLE to have any say in this whatsoever. Simply put, this war is going on and will continue because we have no representation in the Imperial Gov.

And look how the Imperials talk about us... like we're some kind of... animals or monsters or something. We're FIGHTING FOR OUR HOMES AND OUR LIVES AND WE ARE DONE FIGHTING FOR YOU.

The treaty was signed, and accepted by the Elder Council who would have done the terms. The Kings and Queens of High Rock and the High King of Skyrim who accepted the treaty. High King Istlod. There is representation of Skyrim in Imperial politics, the High King, members of the Elder Council who represent Skryim. The Legion you're fighting are fighting for what they believe in, they're fighting for their homes too, 95% are locally recruited from Skyrim. 'My' Emperor?

"The Emperor of Skyrim. Dead. These are dark times my friend - dark times indeed..." Appears the Guards of Skyrim think he's their Emperor. The Mede Dynasty is especially Skyrim's Emperor, it was Skyrim that endorsed Titus Mede as Emperor.

Your Empire is thusly that, your Empire. You guys don't even understand us anymore, the Imperial politicians such as the Emperor and what there is of an "Elder Council" shows no conscience or respect for the heros who SAVED YOUR EMPIRE. Never mind that, our contributions in the war shouldn't matter, we're citizens and as such we should be treated like citizens. Not people who you go to when you need something done and shun, run your mouth about rest of the time. Skyrim is not Cyrodil, ya'll can't understand this.

The Empire is Skyrim, it is High Rock and it is Cyrodiil. Skyrim fought in the Great War like all provinces of the Empire, the Nord Legions fought bravely and they fought well, but so to did Breton, Imperial and all races who are a part of the Imperial Army.

Annnd another thing. Please don't try and lecture me on being "FREE" or "FREEDOM" because this Empire and anyone who is willingly a member of it doesn't understand what it means to be free. Not saying you're lieing, I'm sure you have a point but you don't understand what you're saying. That's like saying we "kill more Nords than the Thalmor", this is the kind of garbage you guys keep telling people! Whose putting Nords in cages just for believing in Talos or fighting for their homes? Whose chopping off heads at Helgen without a fair trial by their peers? Who is the ones allowing those Thalmor DEVILS to freely walk around in OUR HOMES and CITIES unopposed ~ So they can drag our friends and family members off in the night to be raped and beaten for no other reason! And according to the Thalmor under Imperial law they really don't need a reason. They can do whatever they want to us.

Forced freedom is another form of oppression. You're forcing your belief onto half the population of Skyrim. "With us or Against us" Hardly the words of a group fighting for freedom.

There are no trials in Skyrim, sitting in a Court room talking for ages isn't something Nords are really into.

I hardly believe the Thalmor are raping Stormcloaks and Talos worshipers... They believe in Elven superiority and purity. Though having a look at many Thalmor women, I wouldn't call it rape.

Tell me more about how the wonderful Empire is KEEPING THE DOMINION OUT OF SKYRIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TELL ME MORE ABOUT WHAT A MONSTER ULFIC IS FOR LEADING THE TRUE EMPIRE OF TALOS AGAINST THOSE WHO WOULD BRAND US CRIMINALS FOR WANTING TO RULE OURSELVES!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?

The Dominion is being kept out of Skyrim, the Thalmor are not the Dominion, had the Dominion been in Skyrim there would be Elven Lords, populations of other races would be slaughtered in large numbers and there wouldn't be Imperial Soldiers but Altmer and Bosmer troops. The Dominion is being kept out of Skyrim, a few Thalmor Agents do not equal the Aldmeri Dominion.

Ulfric is a traitor who has already broken two oaths of loyalty, one to the Empire and the Emperor another of fealty to his High King which he killed. Nords breaking oaths, now that is quite dishonorable. Ulfric is leading his war out of hatred, since the death of his father he is blinded by anger.

Honestly, after what the Empire has done... I think Cyrodil should become Xenophobic and try and hide it's shame from the free world. Sit down and be silent, because you DO NOT wish to be free and we do not require nor ask for your council. Neither do we wish to be reconciled with our former Imperial "brothers". For us, it's not enough to just "survive". God(s) made us all Free Men and Free Men we are.

You go fight your wars and let us fight ours.


FREEDOM OR SOVNARDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Empire created the Eight/Nine Divines from the Aldmeri pantheon with very watered down Nordic Gods. Talos isn't worshiped by all Nords, many Nords stay true to their real religion, not the "Imposter" Gods of the Empire. By all means if you love and revere the words and Gods of the Imperial Cult, good for you.

 

[original_funk]

Interesting Quote, the Only Dragonborn I know is a Powerful Imperial Vampire Lord that sided with the Empire

plops, well that would put down the Stormcloaks quick smart.

Exactly what the Thalmor fear, because then the Empire will soon turn their fury towards the Dominion. Unlike what Ulfric and his Stormcloaks think, the Empire haven't forgotten Talos and they haven't forgiven the elves.

Especially if they use Legions full of Powerful Vampire Lords, hungry for Elven blood...