Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Jeremius]

And why don't they pick up and work at a mill that takes time to get to? Why don't they make their own power and actually become slaves to the Nords doing the Nords' will because they live in their city? Why don't they fight for Skyrim when the rebellion has nothing for them as they do not worship Talos like ALL true citzens of Skyrim do? /sarcasm

Is that it Raijin? Because the Dunmer are not Nord, they do not deserve an actual promise or something? Their complaints are not legitimate because they are not worshipers of a god they do not care about?

"The best way for us to win the Nords' respect is through hard work."

"Too many dark elves in Windhelm complain about the way we're treated. What good does complaining do?"

"I'm proud of my farm. It takes no small effort to grow crops in this part of Skyrim."

There is at least 1 decent Dunmer living in Windhelm.

And how can they earn respect when ALL the jobs are taken and they can't find any outside of their rundown ghetto?

 

[Raijin]

If they do not like Skyrim, they can complain it as they do not have the money to do anything but complain about the most basic of needs.

Seriously, Ulfric refuses to even promise to listen to them after the war, which makes it sound like to them that he simply either does not care about his own people, meaning he would not be a good High King, or he is too blind to what is really important as a Jarl, which means he would not be a good High King.

Simply being nice often goes along way in making people like you.

Bethesda did not write the aftermath of the war so that's an irrelevant statement. We truly don't know what happens, nor see direct consequences base on our actions because it was never given to us by Bethesda.

 

[Jeremius]

If they do not like Skyrim, they can complain it as they do not have the money to do anything but complain about the most basic of needs.

Seriously, Ulfric refuses to even promise to listen to them after the war, which makes it sound like to them that he simply either does not care about his own people, meaning he would not be a good High King, or he is too blind to what is really important as a Jarl, which means he would not be a good High King.

Simply being nice often goes along way in making people like you.

Bethesda did not write the aftermath of the war so that's an irrelevant statement. We truly don't know what happens, nor see direct consequences base on our actions because it was never given to us by Bethesda.

game-play is not truth buddy. All he has to do is tell the Dunmer that he WILL listen to them when the war is over. This is a PROMISE for a FUTURE TIME!

You understand what a PROMISE is, Raijin?

 

[Raijin]

And why don't they pick up and work at a mill that takes time to get to? Why don't they make their own power and actually become slaves to the Nords doing the Nords' will because they live in their city? Why don't they fight for Skyrim when the rebellion has nothing for them as they do not worship Talos like ALL true citzens of Skyrim do? /sarcasm

Is that it Raijin? Because the Dunmer are not Nord, they do not deserve an actual promise or something? Their complaints are not legitimate because they are not worshipers of a god they do not care about?

"The best way for us to win the Nords' respect is through hard work."

"Too many dark elves in Windhelm complain about the way we're treated. What good does complaining do?"

"I'm proud of my farm. It takes no small effort to grow crops in this part of Skyrim."

There is at least 1 decent Dunmer living in Windhelm.

And how can they earn respect when ALL the jobs are taken and they can't find any outside of their rundown ghetto?

Since when is it the Nords responsibility to provide jobs to the Dunmers? If they cant find work in Windhelm they need to travel else where to find work. It is their responsiblity., and besides. All of the dunmers are working in Windhelm. They have jobs to put food on the table.

"Farm work is hard work. It's good to relax when I can, but I still have to listen to my brothers harping about 'injustices.'"

"Of course working for Bolfrida isn't my first choice. But what else can a Dunmer do out here?"

"My sister and I both work for the Nords. Our brother is ashamed of us, but at least we can affort to eat."

 

[Raijin]

game-play is not truth buddy. All he has to do is tell the Dunmer that he WILL listen to them when the war is over. This is a PROMISE for a FUTURE TIME!

You understand what a PROMISE is, Raijin?

Why is Ulfric obligated to make a promise to the Dunmers?

Wow just wow. When my house starts to have some maintenance problems I will make a note of it to complain to my cities mayor asking him to fix it for me.

 

[Jeremius]

game-play is not truth buddy. All he has to do is tell the Dunmer that he WILL listen to them when the war is over. This is a PROMISE for a FUTURE TIME!

You understand what a PROMISE is, Raijin?

Why is Ulfric obligated to make a promise to the Dunmers?

Wow just wow. When my house starts to have some maintenance problems I will make a note of it to complain to my cities mayor asking him to fix it for me.

Ulfric is obligated to do so because it is his DUTY as Jarl to take care of the people of his hold, not to be a warmongering general in the Civil War.

 

[Vatonage]

Ulfric is obligated to do so because it is his DUTY as Jarl to take care of the people of his hold, not to be a warmongering general in the Civil War.

Some things you have to hold off in the face of bigger problems. Ulfric has priorities, he can't pay attention to everything.

 

[Jeremius]

Ulfric is obligated to do so because it is his DUTY as Jarl to take care of the people of his hold, not to be a warmongering general in the Civil War.

Some things you have to hold off in the face of bigger problems. Ulfric has priorities, he can't pay attention to everything.

Priorities he wants to be priorities. HIS duty is as a Jarl, not a rebel general. He needs either step down as Jarl, because he clearly is too busy to do his actual duties that should take precedence over the War, or place Galmar in charge of the War the way Tullius is for the Empire.

 

[Vatonage]

Priorities he wants to be priorities. HIS duty is as a Jarl, not a rebel general. He needs either step down as Jarl, because he clearly is too busy to do his actual duties that should take precedence over the War, or place Galmar in charge of the War the way Tullius is for the Empire.

Well, I don't see any riots in the streets.

 

[LegateFasendil]

There is a lore reason for the empire side, as Uflric drained the Coffers. Uflric I guess just got too busy trying to be High King pre-moot to deal with his own hold.

OK, your point being that Ulfric should tell the Dunmer he'll help eventually.

OK, and...?

What big, momentous change will it bring? Will it cull all unrest? Will it liberate Skyrim?

No?

Then its not that important.

I would think as Jarl his city and his people come first. Take Jarl B for example

And complaints that are legitimate are annoying? OR are they annoying because you simply do not care about the situation. That is what I think Ulfric was trying to say about the Dunmer situation when he told his steward to tell them he "had more important things to deal with."

Ulfric does not have to do anything more that have the steward tell them that "Skyrim's freedom is the main situation right now as it encompasses more than just the hold, but Ulfric promises to help you out after the war when he can, if you are just patient." That might get them on his side more than "Shut up I am busy" or something much more similar.

What is so legitimate about their complaints? That theirs trash laying around? Why don't they pick up the trash themselves and and make their little compound a little more presentable to others instead of allowing it to look like a slum.

Yeah Ulfric doesn't care about minor complaints. He has bigger fish to fry instead of dealing with such minor cases. If the Dunmers can just be patient then perhaps Ulfric will hear them out.

The time length for one. These problems

And why don't they pick up and work at a mill that takes time to get to? Why don't they make their own power and actually become slaves to the Nords doing the Nords' will because they live in their city? Why don't they fight for Skyrim when the rebellion has nothing for them as they do not worship Talos like ALL true citzens of Skyrim do? /sarcasm

Is that it Raijin? Because the Dunmer are not Nord, they do not deserve an actual promise or something? Their complaints are not legitimate because they are not worshipers of a god they do not care about?

"The best way for us to win the Nords' respect is through hard work."

"Too many dark elves in Windhelm complain about the way we're treated. What good does complaining do?"

"I'm proud of my farm. It takes no small effort to grow crops in this part of Skyrim."

There is at least 1 decent Dunmer living in Windhelm.

Right. This goes back to what I was saying before. Yes, you have 1 Dunmer here who owns his own land and has the *opportunity* to work.

Obviously, 99.9% of the Dark Elves don't have these two things and are being denied them by Ulfric with their situation in general becoming worse when Ulfric became Jarl.

Riften is on the Morrowind border and they don't have these problems.

 

[Raijin]

Ulfric is obligated to do so because it is his DUTY as Jarl to take care of the people of his hold, not to be a warmongering general in the Civil War.

Ulfric is taking care of his people of his hold. The Dunmers all have work and doing good.

 

[Raijin]

Right. This goes back to what I was saying before. Yes, you have 1 Dunmer here who owns his own land and has the *opportunity* to work.

Obviously, 99.9% of the Dark Elves don't have these two things and are being denied them by Ulfric with their situation in general becoming worse when Ulfric became Jarl.

Riften is on the Morrowind border and they don't have these problems.

Sounds like the Dunmers needs to move to Riften, as I've been saying all this time.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Right. This goes back to what I was saying before. Yes, you have 1 Dunmer here who owns his own land and has the *opportunity* to work.

Obviously, 99.9% of the Dark Elves don't have these two things and are being denied them by Ulfric with their situation in general becoming worse when Ulfric became Jarl.

Riften is on the Morrowind border and they don't have these problems.

Sounds like the Dunmers needs to move to Riften, as I've been saying all this time.

But why? I mean... alright you claim same as all Stormcloaks that the Nords are fighting for Freedom. Freedom from Oppression, freedom from Tyranny. So why then, should I believe you when you're the Oppressor yourself? Just because you fight for Freedom and Justice does not give you the right to take away Freedom and PREVENT justice from being dealt to other people.

To hell with whether you're a true Nord or not. Dark Elves or not those are Ulfric's citizens and the fact that we're even having those conversation proves the Stormcloaks are not mature enough to handle this Freedom and Skyrim still needs the Empire.

"Force resettlement" is something that comes under Fascism btw.

 

[Vatonage]

But why? I mean... alright you claim same as all Stormcloaks that the Nords are fighting for Freedom. Freedom from Oppression, freedom from Tyranny. So why then, should I believe you when you're the Oppressor yourself? Just because you fight for Freedom and Justice does not give you the right to take away Freedom and PREVENT justice from being dealt to other people.

To hell with whether you're a true Nord or not. "Force resettlement" is something that comes under Fascism btw.

Forced? They can stay under these conditions, or leave. Its one sided, but not like the guards are holding them at the sword in the matter. If they wanna stay, that's their fault.

They're oppressing themselves.

 

[LegateFasendil]

But why? I mean... alright you claim same as all Stormcloaks that the Nords are fighting for Freedom. Freedom from Oppression, freedom from Tyranny. So why then, should I believe you when you're the Oppressor yourself? Just because you fight for Freedom and Justice does not give you the right to take away Freedom and PREVENT justice from being dealt to other people.

To hell with whether you're a true Nord or not. "Force resettlement" is something that comes under Fascism btw.

Forced? They can stay under these conditions, or leave. Its one sided, but not like the guards are holding them at the sword in the matter. If they wanna stay, that's their fault.

They're oppressing themselves.

I wonder... how many Armenians were explained this by the Turks before they were handed their travel papers. How many Jews *foolishly* believed this garbage before pl*ps got real.

 

[Vatonage]

I wonder... how many Armenians were explained this by the Turks before they were handed their travel papers. How many Jews *foolishly* believed this garbage before pl*ps got real.

You honestly think the Stormcloaks will go Dunmer hunting, Gestapo style?

I'd think that's the Thalmor, buddy.

 

[LegateFasendil]

I wonder... how many Armenians were explained this by the Turks before they were handed their travel papers. How many Jews *foolishly* believed this garbage before pl*ps got real.

You honestly think the Stormcloaks will go Dunmer hunting, Gestapo style?

I'd think that's the Thalmor, buddy.

I'm neither Jewish nor Armenian yet I have been oppressed. Regardless of the reason I know the feeling well and there's no Civil authority which cares about their people that would allow this to go on unless they (Ulfric) either doesn't see or doesn't care. We know he sees it, he knows what's going on so he doesn't care and not caring when you could lift a *FINGER* to stop the abuse is JUST AS BAD as Mr Rolff and his 3:00am home invasion party. And with that aside, it's not like the discrimination against the Dark Elves and Argonians just started at the time of Helgen.

Seeing how this is all joke to you, there's really not much left to say.


LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE

 

[Raijin]

But why? I mean... alright you claim same as all Stormcloaks that the Nords are fighting for Freedom. Freedom from Oppression, freedom from Tyranny. So why then, should I believe you when you're the Oppressor yourself? Just because you fight for Freedom and Justice does not give you the right to take away Freedom and PREVENT justice from being dealt to other people.

To hell with whether you're a true Nord or not. Dark Elves or not those are Ulfric's citizens and the fact that we're even having those conversation proves the Stormcloaks are not mature enough to handle this Freedom and Skyrim still needs the Empire.

"Force resettlement" is something that comes under Fascism btw.

So what you're telling me that the Nords are oppressing the Dunmers? Is that what you're trying to tell me? Taking away freedom? I must be high on reese peanut butter cups, but I never recall Ulfric taking away a Dunmers their freedom. We must be playing the wrong game.

Also Dunmers don't like being called a "Dark elf" it's an offensive term to them.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dunmer_of_Skyrim

Dunmer. That is our name. Yet you deny us even this courtesy. You, the white-skinned, jaundice-haired apes of this godsforsaken frozen wilderness.

 

[Vatonage]

I'm neither Jewish nor Armenian yet I have been oppressed. Regardless of the reason I know the feeling well and there's no Civil authority which cares about their people that would allow this to go on unless they (Ulfric) either doesn't see or doesn't care. We know he sees it, he knows what's going on so he doesn't care and not caring when you could lift a *FINGER* to stop the abuse is JUST AS BAD as Mr Rolff and his 3:00am home invasion party. And with that aside, it's not like the discrimination against the Dark Elves and Argonians just started at the time of Helgen.

Seeing how this is all joke to you, there's really not much left to say.


LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE

This is fictional. Compared to those, this is nothing. I don't see the Stormcloaks endorsing the murder of Dunmer. I don't see them going into their homes and taking everything. Their oppression is rather light compared to your examples, especially the damn Nazis.

Ulfric simply can't help them, yet you act as if he champions their extermination.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

I wonder... how many Armenians were explained this by the Turks before they were handed their travel papers. How many Jews *foolishly* believed this garbage before pl*ps got real.

You honestly think the Stormcloaks will go Dunmer hunting, Gestapo style?

I'd think that's the Thalmor, buddy.

I'm neither Jewish nor Armenian yet I have been oppressed. Regardless of the reason I know the feeling well and there's no Civil authority which cares about their people that would allow this to go on unless they (Ulfric) either doesn't see or doesn't care. We know he sees it, he knows what's going on so he doesn't care and not caring when you could lift a *FINGER* to stop the abuse is JUST AS BAD as Mr Rolff and his 3:00am home invasion party. And with that aside, it's not like the discrimination against the Dark Elves and Argonians just started at the time of Helgen.

Seeing how this is all joke to you, there's really not much left to say.


LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE

If Ulfric's hate was on par with rl examples such as Hitler, the Dark Elves and High Elves would NOT have ANY jobs PERIOD. They would not own their own land, their own stores, and they would be doing slave labor. Your logic is invalid with that example.