Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Jeremius]

Then Ulfric is not a true Nord.

OK.... And what else?

Why die a martyr when that is only hiding the truth? the truth that he surrendered and spat on everything the Stormcloaks stood for?

 

[Vatonage]

Why die a martyr when that is only hiding the truth? the truth that he surrendered and spat on everything the Stormcloaks stood for?

Because that death is more effective. The Empire spat on their history sevenfold when they kneeled to the Aldmeri Dominion. Sometimes the blind route isn't going to be the best one. If he's not a true Nord for helping his people, perhaps not in the traditional way, but the intelligent one, I don't know what is.

 

[Jeremius]

Why die a martyr when that is only hiding the truth? the truth that he surrendered and spat on everything the Stormcloaks stood for?

Because that death is more effective. The Empire spat on their history sevenfold when they kneeled to the Aldmeri Dominion. Sometimes the blind route isn't going to be the best one. If he's not a true Nord for helping his people, perhaps not in the traditional way, but the intelligent one, I don't know what is.

Being a true nord is not surrendering when you know you will lose. It is not fighting only when you know you will win. It is always going down with honor, and surrender stains honor.

 

[Vatonage]

Being a true nord is not surrendering when you know you will lose. It is not fighting only when you know you will win. It is always going down with honor, and surrender stains honor.

Well boohoo. He's alive still. Are the Nords going to burn him at the stake for it? I doubt that.

 

[Jeremius]

Being a true nord is not surrendering when you know you will lose. It is not fighting only when you know you will win. It is always going down with honor, and surrender stains honor.

Well boohoo. He's alive still. Are the Nords going to burn him at the stake for it? I doubt that.

Because no one knows the truth. The stormcloaks spin the truth to make Ulfric look good when he is not at all a good Nord.

 

[Vatonage]

Because no one knows the truth. The stormcloaks spin the truth to make Ulfric look good when he is not at all a good Nord.

Do you have any other arguments? This one is getting us nowhere. History is written by the victors. Stormcloaks win, Ulfric is the true Nord meant to lead them. Empire wins, he was a traitor who deserved to be hanged. Therefore, this is a moot point that is trivial and not going to shake Tamriel. The Nords will gloss over it, the Empire will capitalize on it, small potatoes compared to other things.

 

[Jeremius]

Because no one knows the truth. The stormcloaks spin the truth to make Ulfric look good when he is not at all a good Nord.

Do you have any other arguments? This one is getting us nowhere. History is written by the victors. Stormcloaks win, Ulfric is the true Nord meant to lead them. Empire wins, he was a traitor who deserved to be hanged. Therefore, this is a moot point that is trivial and not going to shake Tamriel. The Nords will gloss over it, the Empire will capitalize on it, small potatoes compared to other things.

Like What? Ulfric killing Torygg in a cheap move, no matter how legal? Ulfric being a blind pawn for the Thalmor unless the DragonBorn gets involved in a war that is not the DragonBorn's fight?

Everything comes back to Ulfric, because Ulfric is the root of the topic of the thread.

 

[Ivory]

Why die a martyr when that is only hiding the truth? the truth that he surrendered and spat on everything the Stormcloaks stood for?

Because that death is more effective. The Empire spat on their history sevenfold when they kneeled to the Aldmeri Dominion. Sometimes the blind route isn't going to be the best one. If he's not a true Nord for helping his people, perhaps not in the traditional way, but the intelligent one, I don't know what is.

I'm going to ask you the same thing I ask every stormcloak.


If a man pointed a gun to your head and told you to renounce your God or you'd die, would you do so (and if Gods are all knowing, your Gods would know you're renouncement is a lie so you'd survive) to take the chance for the gunman to drop his guard and then strike when he does so?

Or would you say no and die a pointless death because you had too much pride to lie?


That's what the Empire is doing. Lying to the gunman so they can lure them into a false state of superiority. It's the same thing you're defending Ulfric for doing. So tell me, will you continue to call the Empire weak and call Ulfric smart when it's the same thing?

 

[Vatonage]

Like What? Ulfric killing Torygg in a cheap move, no matter how legal? Ulfric being a blind pawn for the Thalmor unless the DragonBorn gets involved in a war that is not the DragonBorn's fight?

Are you just going to keep on throwing around already discussed and finished arguments so this can continue until TES 6 comes out?

 

[Vatonage]

I'm going to ask you the same thing I ask every stormcloak.


If a man pointed a gun to your head and told you to renounce your God or you'd die, would you do so (and if Gods are all knowing, your Gods would know you're renouncement is a lie so you'd survive) to take the chance for the gunman to drop his guard and then strike when he does so?

Or would you say no and die a pointless death because you had too much pride to lie?


That's what the Empire is doing. Lying to the gunman so they can lure them into a false state of superiority. It's the same thing you're defending Ulfric for doing. So tell me, will you continue to call the Empire weak and call Ulfric smart when it's the same thing?

I would hold to my God, for the man forcing me to renounce him means his is superior. That is his goal. I have failed. Even striking later, I would have lost my honor. Shall I stand against him, I am victorious.

 

[Raijin]

Tullius: "The rebellion is over. Ulfric Stormcloak is dead. His head will be sent to Cyrodiil where it will adorn a spike on the walls of the Imperial City. Let this day be a final warning to all who would still call themselves Stormcloaks. We are turning the city over to Brunwulf Free-Winter, an honorable and faithful man. Many of you will be staying in Windhelm to aid the Jarl in restoring order and stamping out any embers of rebellion that may still smolder here. In appreciation for your exemplary service, I am doubling your pay and compensation to the widows of your fallen comrades. I am proud of all of you. All hail the Emperor. All hail his Legionnaires!"

The Empire has a sick fetish for decapitation.

All hail to the red queen! To the glory of the Empire!

In the mean while under Stormcloak victory Both General Tullius and Legate Rikke gets buried in the halls of the dead in solitude, without desecration to their bodies.

 

[Jeremius]

Like What? Ulfric killing Torygg in a cheap move, no matter how legal? Ulfric being a blind pawn for the Thalmor unless the DragonBorn gets involved in a war that is not the DragonBorn's fight?

Are you just going to keep on throwing around already discussed and finished arguments so this can continue until TES 6 comes out?

No, I am trying to get you all to see that discussing this garbage is pointless as arguing is pointless in general.

 

[Jeremius]

Tullius: "The rebellion is over. Ulfric Stormcloak is dead. His head will be sent to Cyrodiil where it will adorn a spike on the walls of the Imperial City. Let this day be a final warning to all who would still call themselves Stormcloaks. We are turning the city over to Brunwulf Free-Winter, an honorable and faithful man. Many of you will be staying in Windhelm to aid the Jarl in restoring order and stamping out any embers of rebellion that may still smolder here. In appreciation for your exemplary service, I am doubling your pay and compensation to the widows of your fallen comrades. I am proud of all of you. All hail the Emperor. All hail his Legionnaires!"

The Empire has a sick fetish for decapitation.

All hail to the red queen! To the glory of the Empire!

In the mean while under Stormcloak victory Both General Tullius and Legate Rikke gets buried in the halls of the dead in solitude, without desecration to their bodies.

Who cares. This mess is pointless vanity anyways.

 

[Vatonage]

No, I am trying to get you all to see that discussing this garbage is pointless as arguing is pointless in general.

Constructive argument is the birthplace of opinions and evaluation of our beliefs.

 

[Jeremius]

No, I am trying to get you all to see that discussing this garbage is pointless as arguing is pointless in general.

Constructive argument is the birthplace of opinions and evaluation of our beliefs.

And beating a dead horse is beating a dead horse.

 

[Vatonage]

And beating a dead horse is beating a dead horse.

So leave. No one is forcing you here. If you know you're wasting your time, you must enjoy this.

 

[Jeremius]

And beating a dead horse is beating a dead horse.

So leave. No one is forcing you here. If you know you're wasting your time, you must enjoy this.

People quote me, I quote them. Mostly because they have their heads up their butts in their opinions to see the truth.

 

[Raijin]

Tullius: "The rebellion is over. Ulfric Stormcloak is dead. His head will be sent to Cyrodiil where it will adorn a spike on the walls of the Imperial City. Let this day be a final warning to all who would still call themselves Stormcloaks. We are turning the city over to Brunwulf Free-Winter, an honorable and faithful man. Many of you will be staying in Windhelm to aid the Jarl in restoring order and stamping out any embers of rebellion that may still smolder here. In appreciation for your exemplary service, I am doubling your pay and compensation to the widows of your fallen comrades. I am proud of all of you. All hail the Emperor. All hail his Legionnaires!"

The Empire has a sick fetish for decapitation.

All hail to the red queen! To the glory of the Empire!

In the mean while under Stormcloak victory Both General Tullius and Legate Rikke gets buried in the halls of the dead in solitude, without desecration to their bodies.

Who cares. This mess is pointless vanity anyways.

Who cares? I do I don't support a bunch of head chopping fools who go all of their way to desecrate a body for their own sick entertainment.

The Empire is mentally ill.

 

[Ivory]

I would hold to my God, for the man forcing me to renounce him means his is superior. That is his goal. I have failed. Even striking later, I would have lost my honor. Shall I stand against him, I am victorious.

No. You are dead. He wins. Everything you are no longer exists. Everything you've ever thought, loved, cared for means nothing now that your life is over. You die in vain while your killer stands over your corpse with power. Compared to a man who is strategic and fights back when the man's guard is dropped. At least he died trying and not dying like a powerless animal.

Sure you die and go to sovrngarde or whatever, but what so what? Your life is cut short because you made the conscious choice to be killed without trying to fight back. Your death is an unnecessary and pointless death. Friends? Family? They continue to be ruled over by this man who killed you, because you chose to die rather than fight.

 

[Vatonage]

People quote me, I quote them. Mostly because they have their heads up their butts in their opinions to see the truth.

Good for you. If you knew it was the truth, then let me believe in what I believe is the truth. I support the Stormcloaks, its not harming anyone.