Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Raijin]

Neither really, you're just annoying.

Hey no fighting Jeremius, Ozan and DrunkenMage Or else I, a Stormcloak, will make sweet love to Legate Rikke! Don't push me to that direction!

I will be forced to make love to Emperor Titus Mede II if you guys continue.

 

[Jeremius]

Neither really, you're just annoying.

Hey no fighting Jeremius, Ozan and DrunkenMage Or else I, a Stormcloak, will make sweet love to Legate Rikke! Don't push me to that direction!

I will be forced to make love to Emperor Titus Mede II if you guys continue.

The facts make the Empire a lot brighter of a choice than the Stormcloaks. Can't ignore the racial issues that came when Ulfric refused to help his hold, or the fact that the Empire is not being aided by the Thalmor (dossier on the rebel Jarl boss).

 

[Raijin]

Neither really, you're just annoying.

Hey no fighting Jeremius, Ozan and DrunkenMage Or else I, a Stormcloak, will make sweet love to Legate Rikke! Don't push me to that direction!

I will be forced to make love to Emperor Titus Mede II if you guys continue.

The facts make the Empire a lot brighter of a choice than the Stormcloaks. Can't ignore the racial issues that came when Ulfric refused to help his hold, or the fact that the Empire is not being aided by the Thalmor (dossier on the rebel Jarl boss).

The facts makes me want to run on over to the Stormcloaks and theirs no evidence whatsoever indicating that Ulfric is a racists. Theirs really nothing all that wrong with his hold other then the fact that its always snowing.

 

[Jeremius]

Hey no fighting Jeremius, Ozan and DrunkenMage Or else I, a Stormcloak, will make sweet love to Legate Rikke! Don't push me to that direction!

I will be forced to make love to Emperor Titus Mede II if you guys continue.

The facts make the Empire a lot brighter of a choice than the Stormcloaks. Can't ignore the racial issues that came when Ulfric refused to help his hold, or the fact that the Empire is not being aided by the Thalmor (dossier on the rebel Jarl boss).

The facts makes me want to run on over to the Stormcloaks and theirs no evidence whatsoever indicating that Ulfric is a racists. Theirs really nothing all that wrong with his hold other then the fact that its always snowing.

He ignores his hold, primarily the Dunmer who are the ones complaining about the conditions their homes, while Brunwulf is more than willing to help them. and the fact that there a murderer on the loose that Windhelm needs the Dovahkiin to solve as they do not have enough guards thanks to all the young men joining the war.

 

[Raijin]

The facts make the Empire a lot brighter of a choice than the Stormcloaks. Can't ignore the racial issues that came when Ulfric refused to help his hold, or the fact that the Empire is not being aided by the Thalmor (dossier on the rebel Jarl boss).

The facts makes me want to run on over to the Stormcloaks and theirs no evidence whatsoever indicating that Ulfric is a racists. Theirs really nothing all that wrong with his hold other then the fact that its always snowing.

He ignores his hold, primarily the Dunmer who are the ones complaining about the conditions their homes, while Brunwulf is more than willing to help them. and the fact that there a murderer on the loose that Windhelm needs the Dovahkiin to solve as they do not have enough guards thanks to all the young men joining the war.

No he doesn't and all but one are chronic complainers. They should count their blessings that they have a safe place to sleep at night knowing that they're not going to be giant food or food for the bears and wolves, or get mugged by thieves. Same goes for the Argonians as well.

If you're going to go down that route lets talk about that an Imperial supporting Jarl in Markarth who is allowing one of his most wealthy citizens to run the place, and to allow slavery in his hold. If you want to talk about how bad the Dunmers has it in Windhelm lets do a comparisons with the Forsworn in Markarth.

 

[Jeremius]

The facts makes me want to run on over to the Stormcloaks and theirs no evidence whatsoever indicating that Ulfric is a racists. Theirs really nothing all that wrong with his hold other then the fact that its always snowing.

He ignores his hold, primarily the Dunmer who are the ones complaining about the conditions their homes, while Brunwulf is more than willing to help them. and the fact that there a murderer on the loose that Windhelm needs the Dovahkiin to solve as they do not have enough guards thanks to all the young men joining the war.

No he doesn't and all but one are chronic complainers. They should count their blessings that they have a safe place to sleep at night knowing that they're not going to be giant food or food for the bears and wolves, or get mugged by thieves. Same goes for the Argonians as well.

If you're going to go down that route lets talk about that an Imperial supporting Jarl in Markarth who is allowing one of his most wealthy citizens to run the place, and to allow slavery in his hold. If you want to talk about how bad the Dunmers has it in Windhelm lets do a comparisons with the Forsworn in Markarth.

And that family actually supports nobody but themselves. And one of their members is an Ulfric lover. The same man takes over if the Stormcloaks take over, and what does he want to do? SUPPRESS AND ENSLAVE THE FORSWORN!

Point?

 

[Raijin]

He ignores his hold, primarily the Dunmer who are the ones complaining about the conditions their homes, while Brunwulf is more than willing to help them. and the fact that there a murderer on the loose that Windhelm needs the Dovahkiin to solve as they do not have enough guards thanks to all the young men joining the war.

No he doesn't and all but one are chronic complainers. They should count their blessings that they have a safe place to sleep at night knowing that they're not going to be giant food or food for the bears and wolves, or get mugged by thieves. Same goes for the Argonians as well.

If you're going to go down that route lets talk about that an Imperial supporting Jarl in Markarth who is allowing one of his most wealthy citizens to run the place, and to allow slavery in his hold. If you want to talk about how bad the Dunmers has it in Windhelm lets do a comparisons with the Forsworn in Markarth.

And that family actually supports nobody but themselves. And one of their members is an Ulfric lover.

Point?

My point is that you claim that Ulfric is ignoring his hold (which is false since he raises taxes on the Dunmer merchant if you tell the Imperial woman about her stolen ring) and that he treats the Dunmers like crap when theirs far worst going on in Markarth under Imperial control.

Like I said before the Dunmers should count their blessings that they have a safe haven to sleep in.

I rather have Nord drunk spit venomous names at me than to be in the situation that the Forsworn are in.

Oh and one more thing... Tullius sends over a spy to steal documents of cidhna mine from the silver bloods. I find it hard to believe that Tullius full intentions of stealing these documents is to "free" the slaves. Hes going after the silver that is produced in the mine.

 

[Jeremius]

No he doesn't and all but one are chronic complainers. They should count their blessings that they have a safe place to sleep at night knowing that they're not going to be giant food or food for the bears and wolves, or get mugged by thieves. Same goes for the Argonians as well.

If you're going to go down that route lets talk about that an Imperial supporting Jarl in Markarth who is allowing one of his most wealthy citizens to run the place, and to allow slavery in his hold. If you want to talk about how bad the Dunmers has it in Windhelm lets do a comparisons with the Forsworn in Markarth.

And that family actually supports nobody but themselves. And one of their members is an Ulfric lover.

Point?

My point is that you claim that Ulfric is ignoring his hold (which is false since he raises taxes on the Dunmer merchant if you tell the Imperial woman about her stolen ring) and that he treats the Dunmers like crap when theirs far worst going on in Markarth under Imperial control.

Like I said before the Dunmers should count their blessings that they have a safe haven to sleep in.

I rather have Nord drunk spit venomous names at me than to be in the situation that the Forsworn are in.

Oh and one more thing... Tullius sends over a spy to steal documents of cidhna mine from the silver bloods. I find it hard to believe that Tullius full intentions of stealing these documents is to "free" the slaves. Hes going after the silver that is produced in the mine.

WHAT!? Thongvor Silver-blood and his clan are the ones slaving people, and Thongvor wants to expand that to all Forsworn after he becomes Jarl, WHEN THE STORMCLOAKS TAKE MARKARTH!

Speaks Volumes about the "righteous rebels," doesn't it.

And Ulfric's response to his steward about the Dunmer is more like blowing it off to me, especially when, as their Jarl, he should explain to them that he is occupied and needs to take care of other things, and that if they are patient, he will hear them out. Never says that, and probably expects that to be understood, when his wording sounds not so sincere.

 

[NENALATA]

Hmmm lolz.

If I was playing as a Dunmer... after reading, "Scourge of the Grey Quarter" and checking out the scene at Windhelm, I wouldn't wait.

If I was a Nord, result is the same. If I were a Breton or High Elf, decision is the same for me.

You cannot take from one and give to another out of personal bias and then call yourself being reasonable. It's rather obvious and documented that the Dunmer's current problem(s) in Windhelm all began and will no doubt end with Ulfric.

This is thing some people are missing on here. Why just the Dunmer? Let's also persecute the Bretons... Check. Then persecute the Nords who aren't one of 'us'... Check. Then let's silently start taking out Khajit and Elves... Check.

When does this end? How many people does Ulfric & Stormcloaks have to kill, oppress or persecute before they're satisfied? There is no way of answering this question because it will never be enough for them.

The Empire was forced to persecute believes in Talos after fighting a war to try and stop it. The Empire though, does not agree with this, they don't have a choice. The Nords have a choice and so far they're doing just what the Thalmor are doing.

Hadvar was in the wrong until he was given an opportunity to change things. When the Empire gets this same opportunity again, alot of this pl*ps will stop. The Stormcloaks however, are choosing to willfully punish/persecute anyone they deem 'beneath them'.

​

​

First they came for the Imperials, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not an Imperial.​

Then they came for the Khajit Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Khajit Trade Unionist.​

Then they came for the Elves, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not an Elf.​

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.​

​

​

Keep in mind ~ The Empire was not enforcing the ban on Talos worship until after the Markarth Incident. The Empire is the moderate in this, caught between two radical parties bent on destroying each other and anyone else in their way.​

​

The Nords Radicalism grows and spreads across the land as the grow in power. The Empire is not radical, they signed one treaty but it was the Thalmor who forced it on them. Although that will change once Titus Mede II *resigns*. The rep from the Elder Council and Gen Tullius both see the damage the WGC Concordant has done. Nothing will change however until The Emperor resigns.​

​

I'll take hope over the certain death any day.​

 

[DrunkenMage]

Oh and one more thing... Tullius sends over a spy to steal documents of cidhna mine from the silver bloods. I find it hard to believe that Tullius full intentions of stealing these documents is to "free" the slaves. Hes going after the silver that is produced in the mine.

They're prisoners in there. Serving time for murder and other things, or they're just framed by the Silver-Bloods. She was sent to get the deed for the prison, either stealing or buying.

They were interested in it because; On my life, I won't allow a group of Stormcloak sympathizers to own the prison to the most notorious criminals of the Reach.- Margret's Journal

It wasn't about the silver, the Empire already gets the silver.

 

[Ozan]

Raijin, did you shave? Its horrifying. ))

DrunkenMage, I am surprised that we found a common annoyance in Ozan.

You seem bitter. Was it something I said or are you always this anal?))

Neither really, you're just annoying.

Geez, not even going to hide your impolite nature. But, whatever, if you want to be rude, then you are allowed to be rude. It doesn't make you right, however.))

The Legionnaire that killed her husband, dies. The Legion which consists of thousands of soldiers isn't going to be perfect, there will always be a few bad [apples].

By your logic, if one person acts up. Entire organization is bad. Like me saying if someone commits murder in your country, your country is bad, should all be killed, cause they're lawless. Doesn't work like that.

You're missing my point. My point is, the Legion didn't investigate it. They send the PC out to collect the deed, not solve a murder. How did they know he was killed without finding a body? How come they didn't look for him when he went missing? How come the legion just collects taxes and not regulate?

Probably because it isn't there job, and it probably won't ever be.

Morrowind was part of the Empire, not an ally. Morrowind being a frontier outpost for the Legion, hard action has to be taken to maintain order. Empire isn't a democracy.

My apologies, how do you expect to work with your own citizens if you blatantly kill them?

That sounds MUCH better, doesn't it?

Yes, fair justice. They believed the Ordinators were too prejudiced. Valid considering majority of Dunmer stance towards foreigners. Morrowind justice is rather cruel. Interesting you're defending them.

You know, this seems to be an awfully terrible habit the Empire has. Overruling the laws and customs of their own provinces. They did it here in Morrowind, they did it again in Skyrim. The only laws that are sacred are your own, amirite?

Empire lost control of the provinces. You're ignoring lore, you're bitching about the Empire being too weak to maintain Imperial Authority during civil war when the Elder Council fractured.

Am I? If you recall what they said in Solstheim and how they explain why House Redoran was able to achieve so much was because they stepped up to defend Morrowind during the Oblivion crisis when the Imperials recalled their legions to protect Cyrodiil. Thats also the reason why Hlaalu got black listed.

During the Oblivion Crisis, the Empire withdrew most of its armies from Morrowind to defend Cyrodiil. WhileHouse Redoran was able to organize the Dunmer into an effective fighting force against the Daedra and eventually the Argonians, the Dunmer people's hatred of the Empire greatly increased. Since they couldn't take their anger out on the Empire itself, they targeted House Hlaalu, who had always been staunch Imperialsupporters. The other Great Houses revoked House Hlaalu's Great House status. The House fell into obscurity due to their new-found pariah until it became a mere shadow of its former power.

Yeah, I'm the one who is guilty of ignoring the lore. -I'm- the one.

I pointed out he was a Breton Knight. He isn't a member of the Legion, and no not all guards are part of the Legion in Cyrodiil. Some guards are given to Counts/Countesses to serve them. Majority of them do not have Imperial contracts. So you're wrong. Also bringing out the racist card? Wow you are struggling with an argument here.

First, I'd like to point out that guards tend to count as Imperial Legion folk. They defend the laws of the empire, they defend the people, and they maintain this propaganda. Even if they aren't legion, they are on the same payroll, being payed with Imperial taxes. Second, pointing out his race is moot and unneeded. The fact that you say bringing up the "racist card" as a struggling argument means well over HALF of the Imperial arguments are also signs of struggling. Imperials say all the time that Ulfric is racist, including yourself. Are YOU struggling in this argument? I'll let you decide.

Wait, so they're criminals but the Legion Captain is wrong for cracking down after something valuable was stolen from another city? Given that he had an asset, and had cause to do so. Cracking down on criminals is nothing like genocide. Fact you'd bring that as an example, shows how ignorant you truly are.

If you recall, he didn't do it just once but twice. Don't hide information. And only once he had reason to be there. The Legion is above the law it seems. You lack credibility, and now that I have the ability to GOOGLE plops, I can start linking actual quotes from the wikis.

Suck it! >:3

Still beat you.

Sure did! You information hiding, lore ignoring, champion!

Yet Khajiit practice slavery now. Interesting isn't it. The Empire didn't support slavery, and since Morrowind wasn't taken by Military conquest they had to abide by the treaty. Yes, it took awhile for the slaves to be freed, but if the Legion did it by force. You'd be here bitching about oppression, cause when the Legion uses force for a logical cause, it's all oppression and evil.

Fair enough. Khajiit practice slavery. I promise I won't join them during the civil war in SKYRIM.

Bringing this up is pointless and a waste of time. Go find a different argument and present it.

Are you really that thick? I mean truly ignorant to the point where nothing enters your brain? The Great War was a surprise. Just because you're told about it a few days prior, doesn't make it suddenly expected and we're prepared. The Empire was taken by surprise when war was declared, because they were unprepared and their armies were scattered across four provinces.

There were Imperial defenses on Valenwood, which could have been there for a hundred years for all we know.

Right, I forgot, an entire army can easily be confused for a weather balloon. You're absolutely right, by golly!

The irony of it coming from you.

I have nothing to say to this, I just want this to be quoted to make you look like a pompous ass.

It isn't called being forgetful, it's called learning. There have been past arguments of mine that have been wrong, misinformed. If I'm ignorant for learning what is correct and what isn't, then so be it.

Alright, fair enough. Learn. Just don't be biased about it.))

 

[Jeremius]

Raijin, did you shave? Its horrifying. ))

You seem bitter. Was it something I said or are you always this anal?))

Neither really, you're just annoying.

Geez, not even going to hide your impolite nature. But, whatever, if you want to be rude, then you are allowed to be rude. It doesn't make you right, however.))

It is annoying talking to someone who will not admit the truth when it is in his/her face.

 

[DrunkenMage]

You're missing my point. My point is, the Legion didn't investigate it. They send the PC out to collect the deed, not solve a murder. How did they know he was killed without finding a body? How come they didn't look for him when he went missing? How come the legion just collects taxes and not regulate?

Probably because it isn't there job, and it probably won't ever be.

It isn't the Legions job to handle every matter. They uphold Imperial law and enforce Imperial authority.

My apologies, how do you expect to work with your own citizens if you blatantly kill them?

That sounds MUCH better, doesn't it?

Well if you slander the Legions, and possibly spread lies about the Emperor's forces. You get punished for it, especially if you're in a position of power. It's part of the times they're in.

I've never once said the Legion is perfect, has no faults. But the bad things the Legion did over 200 years ago, matter little.

You know, this seems to be an awfully terrible habit the Empire has. Overruling the laws and customs of their own provinces. They did it here in Morrowind, they did it again in Skyrim. The only laws that are sacred are your own, amirite?

Imperial Law > Province Law. The Empire isn't a democracy, what part of that do you not understand?

Am I? If you recall what they said in Solstheim and how they explain why House Redoran was able to achieve so much was because they stepped up to defend Morrowind during the Oblivion crisis when the Imperials recalled their legions to protect Cyrodiil. Thats also the reason why Hlaalu got black listed.

Yeah, I'm the one who is guilty of ignoring the lore. -I'm- the one.

Nice quote. From Elderscrolls wiki, the worst source of information. House Redoran was building their army during the Oblivion Crisis, it wasn't until after the Oblivion Crisis they formed an army.

Without an Emperor, the Empire beyond the reach of Cyrodiil began to splinter. - Rising Threat, Vol. III

When it is said the Empire 'released it's grasp on Morrowind' that was due to the loss of ability to keep Imperial authority. It wasn't until 4E 17 that the Empire began to stabilize under Emperor Titus Mede.

First, I'd like to point out that guards tend to count as Imperial Legion folk.

No. They do not. There is a difference. Legion =/= County Guard.

They defend the laws of the empire, they defend the people, and they maintain this propaganda.

They defend the laws and authority of the Counts they serve. Belonging to their household.

Even if they aren't legion

So they're not Legion now?

they are on the same payroll, being payed with Imperial taxes.

They're paid by the Counts.

Second, pointing out his race is moot and unneeded.

I was saying he was a Breton Knight. He is in the service of the Count, not the Legion.

The fact that you say bringing up the "racist card" as a struggling argument means well over HALF of the Imperial arguments are also signs of struggling.

No. You brought up that I was being racist, because I said he was a Breton Knight. So quit your bitching.

Imperials say all the time that Ulfric is racist, including yourself. Are YOU struggling in this argument? I'll let you decide.

I call the Stormcloaks xenophobic. I'll let you figure out a difference.

If you recall, he didn't do it just once but twice. Don't hide information. And only once he had reason to be there. The Legion is above the law it seems.

The Legion are the law. Quit yelling the oppression , Lex was doing an investigation and closing down the Thieves Guild operations. Having one of their chief Lieutenants under House Arrest and many other Guild members being arrested.

You lack credibility, and now that I have the ability to GOOGLE pl***, I can start linking actual quotes from the wikis.

You don't even know what wiki to use, so your credibility is about as high as the Stormcloak supporter who was in here ages ago saying the Imperials hide lore.

Sure did! You information hiding, lore ignoring, champion!

Oh, well I guess your credibility is exactly the same as noted above.

Fair enough. Khajiit practice slavery. I promise I won't join them during the civil war in SKYRIM.

Bringing this up is pointless and a waste of time. Go find a different argument and present it.

You don't even know what an argument is. It's all oppression when it comes to you.

Right, I forgot, an entire army can easily be confused for a weather balloon. You're absolutely right, by golly!

I don't even know what you're on about here? Imperial defenses on Valenwood weren't attacked from Valenwood. They were attacked from hidden camps in Elsweyr.

I have nothing to say to this, I just want this to be quoted to make you look like a pompous ass.

Better an ass, than to share your ideology.

 

[Raijin]

WHAT!? Thongvor Silver-blood and his clan are the ones slaving people, and Thongvor wants to expand that to all Forsworn after he becomes Jarl, WHEN THE STORMCLOAKS TAKE MARKARTH!

Speaks Volumes about the "righteous rebels," doesn't it.

And Ulfric's response to his steward about the Dunmer is more like blowing it off to me, especially when, as their Jarl, he should explain to them that he is occupied and needs to take care of other things, and that if they are patient, he will hear them out. Never says that, and probably expects that to be understood, when his wording sounds not so sincere.

Igmund (as the Jarl) is responsible for what goes on in his city. He is responsible for what goes on inside the prison inside of his city. He is responsible for law and order. The Jarl is so greased up with Silver-blood's coin that it's despicable. Same goes for the Jarl in Riften.

And as far as Ulfric responding to his Steward about the Dunmer situation:

Skyrim is in shambles. The Empire allowed the Thalmor to essentially be stationed in Solitude (Under Imperial protection) so they can send their Thalmor justiciars to hunt down and harass Talos worshipers (Not to mention exterminate the rest of the remanding members of the blades) due to the treaty that they have with the Empire. Ulfric has personal experience with the Thalmor and knows exactly what they can do. Can you not blame him for not dealing with such minor issues that the Dark elves are having? theirs bigger fish to catch then to deal with petty things.

They're prisoners in there. Serving time for murder and other things, or they're just framed by the Silver-Bloods. She was sent to get the deed for the prison, either stealing or buying.

They were interested in it because; On my life, I won't allow a group of Stormcloak sympathizers to own the prison to the most notorious criminals of the Reach.- Margret's Journal

It wasn't about the silver, the Empire already gets the silver.

The Forsworn and the Stormcloaks seems to have a lot in common despite them hating each other.

"I fight for my people impoverished to pay the debts of an Empire too weak to rule them, yet brands them criminals for wanting to rule themselves!" - Jarl Ulfric Stormcloak

"You want to know who the Forsworn are? We are the people who must pillage our own land. Burn our own ground. We are the scourge of the Nords. The axe that falls in the dark. The scream before the gods claim your soul. We are the true sons and daughters of the Reach. The spirits and hags have lived here from the beginning, and they are on our side. Go back. Go back and tell your Empire that we will have our own kingdom again. And on that day, we will be the ones burying your dead in a land that is no longer yours." - Cortoran -Forsworn

And no. The Forsworn are political prisoners at best.

 

[DrunkenMage]

And no. The Forsworn are political prisoners at best.

They're not political prisoners, most of them were arrested years after the Markarth Incident. Lore wise, not everyone in the Mine is Forsworn, many are criminals. The mine makes them hardened, sometimes joining Forsworn.

 

[Jeremius]

WHAT!? Thongvor Silver-blood and his clan are the ones slaving people, and Thongvor wants to expand that to all Forsworn after he becomes Jarl, WHEN THE STORMCLOAKS TAKE MARKARTH!

Speaks Volumes about the "righteous rebels," doesn't it.

And Ulfric's response to his steward about the Dunmer is more like blowing it off to me, especially when, as their Jarl, he should explain to them that he is occupied and needs to take care of other things, and that if they are patient, he will hear them out. Never says that, and probably expects that to be understood, when his wording sounds not so sincere.

Igmund (as the Jarl) is responsible for what goes on in his city. He is responsible for what goes on inside the prison inside of his city. He is responsible for law and order. The Jarl is so greased up with Silver-blood's coin that it's despicable. Same goes for the Jarl in Riften.

What do you expect Igmund to do? the guards are in the Silver-bloods' coin purses. They hire mercenaries to scare people into submission and the Jarl cannot do a thing because he has no real power.

And as far as Ulfric responding to his Steward about the Dunmer situation:

Skyrim is in shambles. The Empire allowed the Thalmor to essentially be stationed in Solitude (Under Imperial protection) so they can send their Thalmor justiciars to hunt down and harass Talos worshipers (Not to mention exterminate the rest of the remanding members of the blades) due to the treaty that they have with the Empire. Ulfric has personal experience with the Thalmor and knows exactly what they can do. Can you not blame him for not dealing with such minor issues that the Dark elves are having? theirs bigger fish to catch then to deal with petty things.

Malthyr: "You've seen how we live -- cramped alleys, run-down buildings, few guard patrols. Even the name 'Gray Quarter' is an insult."

sounds like a minor issue huh? the cramped alley slum, run-down buildings, and the fact that the guards rarely, if at all patrol the place are small fry to the civil war started because the Thalmor manipulated it to happen that way.

 

[Raijin]

And no. The Forsworn are political prisoners at best.

They're not political prisoners, most of them were arrested years after the Markarth Incident. Lore wise, not everyone in the Mine is Forsworn, many are criminals. The mine makes them hardened, sometimes joining Forsworn.

If they were arrested for being a Forsworn, then yes. They're there for political reasons and are in fact considered P.O.W

 

[Jeremius]

And no. The Forsworn are political prisoners at best.

They're not political prisoners, most of them were arrested years after the Markarth Incident. Lore wise, not everyone in the Mine is Forsworn, many are criminals. The mine makes them hardened, sometimes joining Forsworn.

If they were arrested for being a Forsworn, then yes. They're there for political reasons and are in fact considered P.O.W

If you talk to some of them, they tell you they joined the forsworn in prison, which is run by the Silver-Bloods, who needed the bodies to work the mine without pay.

 

[Raijin]

What do you expect Igmund to do? the guards are in the Silver-bloods' coin purses. They hire mercenaries to scare people into submission and the Jarl cannot do a thing because he has no real power.

I expect him to do his job and run his city, not getting his hands wet in silver-bloods wealth. He is suppose to be the man with power in his city, not the Silver-bloods.

sounds like a minor issue huh? the cramped alley slum, run-down buildings, and the fact that the guards rarely, if at all patrol the place are small fry to the civil war started because the Thalmor manipulated it to happen that way.

Poor poor pooooooooor Dunmers. Lets throw the people who actually work hard for their mansions out, and give it to the dunmers for free to live in.

The Dunmers aren't prisoners in Windhelm. They can leave at any given time. Perhaps they can find an empty fort to live in, or become one of Mavens workers in Riften. I'm sure she welcomes such cheap labor.

 

[Jeremius]

What do you expect Igmund to do? the guards are in the Silver-bloods' coin purses. They hire mercenaries to scare people into submission and the Jarl cannot do a thing because he has no real power.

I expect him to do his job and run his city, not getting his hands wet in silver-bloods wealth. He is suppose to be the man with power in his city, not the Silver-bloods.

The Silver-blood's power comes from coin. As long as they own the mine, Igmund can't do anything to them at all. They own Markarth, not Igmund, he is just sitting in the chair.

sounds like a minor issue huh? the cramped alley slum, run-down buildings, and the fact that the guards rarely, if at all patrol the place are small fry to the civil war started because the Thalmor manipulated it to happen that way.

Poor poor pooooooooor Dunmers. Lets throw the people who actually work hard for their mansions out, and give it to the dunmers for free to live in.

The Dunmers aren't prisoners in Windhelm. They can leave at any given time. Perhaps they can find an empty fort to live in, or become one of Mavens workers in Riften. I'm sure she welcomes such cheap labor.

Anything that sparks dissent and potential rebellion should always be taken seriously. If Ulfric actually tried to talk to the Dunmer in a way they will understand, and actually promise to listen to their complaints later, I might understand. He does not say that at all, however, just tells his steward to tell the Dunmer that he is busy with a war started by the Thalmor manipulating Skyrim.