Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

TheQahnaarin said:

Oh my god. So it's ok for Tullius to say essentially the exact same thing to Ulfric, Galmar and you but not ok to for there to be some obscure quote that as far as I know isn't even in the game?

And Tullius is sacrificing the natives and resources of a land he's not even from.

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Tullius does not say the exact same thing. "This is what the Thalmor wanted" is Tullius saying they wanted them to be fighting. Not once does he say the Thalmor want the rebellion to win.

When you storm Castle Dour/Palace of the Kings, you can speak to everyone and they have something to say. I would assume that quote is when Ulfric is on his knees waiting to die.

DrunkenMage said:

Did some digging in the game files.

"But imagine -- fleets of ships sailing from Windhelm, all bearing the Stormcloak flag! It would be glorious!"

You stupid bastards, you're all going to die.

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So I just found its not even referring to Alinor.

Ulfric: "I'm still not sure I understand what you're asking."
Torsten: "A navy, my lord. We could stop the influx of Imperial troops to Solitude, and choke their northern lines."
Ulfric: "But most of their supply routes come south, from Cyrodiil."
Torsten: "But imagine -- fleets of ships sailing from Windhelm, all bearing the Stormcloak flag! It would be glorious!"
Ulfric: "And I suppose the Cruel-Seas would be just the clan to provide ships and men?"
Torsten: "You need but ask."
Ulfric: "I'll think on this, but I make no promises."
Torsten: "I can ask no more. Thank you, my lord!"

I've played both depending on what race my character is. I think I enjoyed the Stormcloak side more than the Imperials. I think the Imperials are too uppity.

TheQahnaarin said:

So I just found its not even referring to Alinor.

Ulfric: "I'm still not sure I understand what you're asking."
Torsten: "A navy, my lord. We could stop the influx of Imperial troops to Solitude, and choke their northern lines."
Ulfric: "But most of their supply routes come south, from Cyrodiil."
Torsten: "But imagine -- fleets of ships sailing from Windhelm, all bearing the Stormcloak flag! It would be glorious!"
Ulfric: "And I suppose the Cruel-Seas would be just the clan to provide ships and men?"
Torsten: "You need but ask."
Ulfric: "I'll think on this, but I make no promises."
Torsten: "I can ask no more. Thank you, my lord!"

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No it is referring to the Civil War. But, what do you do with an entire fleet after victory? Simply leave it behind? Are you relying on Cyrodiil to supply your forces if you march south, if not your supplies depend on Pale Pass which is risky and the mountains would be blocked during winter. Marching from Skyrim all the way to Valenwood/Elsweyr will be a considerable drain on resources alone.

Unless you plan to march from the Rift through the pass around there. Then you double your distance basically.

Edit: Why do you think the Nords never wanted to invade Cyrodiil? The Jerall Mountains are too much of a bitch. So if they found reaching Northern Cyrodiil a pain, imagine their woes when marching all the way to Valenwood.

Looks who's been busy.

DrunkenMage said:

TheQahnaarin said:

So I just found its not even referring to Alinor.

Ulfric: "I'm still not sure I understand what you're asking."
Torsten: "A navy, my lord. We could stop the influx of Imperial troops to Solitude, and choke their northern lines."
Ulfric: "But most of their supply routes come south, from Cyrodiil."
Torsten: "But imagine -- fleets of ships sailing from Windhelm, all bearing the Stormcloak flag! It would be glorious!"
Ulfric: "And I suppose the Cruel-Seas would be just the clan to provide ships and men?"
Torsten: "You need but ask."
Ulfric: "I'll think on this, but I make no promises."
Torsten: "I can ask no more. Thank you, my lord!"

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No it is referring to the Civil War. But, what do you do with an entire fleet after victory? Simply leave it behind? Are you relying on Cyrodiil to supply your forces if you march south, if not your supplies depend on Pale Pass which is risky and the mountains would be blocked during winter. Marching from Skyrim all the way to Valenwood/Elsweyr will be a considerable drain on resources alone.

Unless you plan to march from the Rift through the pass around there. Then you double your distance basically.

Edit: Why do you think the Nords never wanted to invade Cyrodiil? The Jerall Mountains are too much of a bitch. So if they found reaching Northern Cyrodiil a pain, imagine their woes when marching all the way to Valenwood.

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No, no, no. Let them send the fleet of wood.. I mean ships. We can make this work Mage. Let them send the fleet so that's one less problem for the Empire and then we can throw a proper beach party and charity scavenger hunt. Please bring Ulfric & Galmar along too for the skull-keg event later on that evening. Now if you'll excuse me, I will be in meeting with the Maormer ambassage.

The Stormcloaks only really work if they were content on not leaving their borders.

They have a few options.

1) they sail by sea around the Western Coast of Tamriel, which really limits the window time to start their invasion due to the deadly storms in the northern regions. Take a few weeks or months to get to where they're landing, so reinforcements/supplies will take a long time to get to the front lines and communication between the invasion forces and Skyrim will be poor, only being able to send messages every few weeks (Unless you had Battlemages to contact other Battlemages... Which they don't have). You're facing the powerful Aldmeri navy, who carry Battlemages on ships. Besides not having Battlemages, Nord Captains would most likely refuse to even transport Mages due to it being considered bad luck.

2) March through Hammerfell, going across a desert probably isn't the best idea for Nords. Be a strain on any army, eat up a lot of resources and it would be very slow going. Stopping at the water oases every day/only marching at night.

3) Go through Cyrodiil, the northern passes are a real bitch. They close up all the time, and you're facing issues with supplies like number one. Long distance to cover, harsh environments etc. Unless you're relying on the Empire to supply you, and that really defeats the purpose of going independent and being self sufficient.

"We're done fighting for a corrupt and dying Empire, so weak and oppressive... By the way could you supply us with food, clothes, wood & metal? Be a huge help... Skyrim belongs to the Nords, though."

Less nervous about going Pro-Thalmor now. Seriously Mage, all I have to do now is quote your Pro-Imperial posts when you go Pro-Stormcloaks again.

Rimfaxe96 said:

Less nervous about going Pro-Thalmor now. Seriously Mage, all I have to do now is quote your Pro-Imperial posts when you go Pro-Stormcloaks again.

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Don't worry, Mage will never be a real Stormcloak.
With every post he will write, he'll die a little inside.
It will be like a monstrous storm. All we need to do, is wait it out....

Unless it won't go away!

General Charles Xander said:

Unless it won't go away!

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Well, we could try to manipulate Mage into making a Stormcloak Mage vs Imperial Mage thread. Sooner or later his skull ought to explode.

Rimfaxe96 said:

General Charles Xander said:

Unless it won't go away!

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Well, we could try to manipulate Mage into making a Stormcloak Mage vs Imperial Mage thread. Sooner or later his skull ought to explode.

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That.....is.....brilliant!

The main issue is that no one really considers just how much a drain on resources keeping a medieval army supplied either on march or simply standing around.

They're only moving about ten miles on a very good day. Besides the soldiers, you have your beasts of burden, carts, supply baggage trains and you need your non-combatants to conduct various tasks on the move/setting up camp. Even today in our modern times it is a huge undertaking deploying a large Military force.

DrunkenMage said:

"With me, you kill Skyrim's last hope. Mark my words. You'll all be serving elven masters soon. And know then, that I would have stopped them." - Ulfric Stormcloak

Such vanity... He believes he's Skyrim's last hope and that only he can stop the Thalmor.

His ego will be the death of you all.

"But you're willing to sacrifice thousands for your own selfish ambitions." - General Tullius to Ulfric Stormcloak.

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In the mean time General Tullius had valuable information about the Thalmor that could very well end the civil war, but he kept it back, and let the civil war to go on as long as it could.

Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion." <~~~~ Such irony.

Who has the selfish ambitions now?

Raijin said:

DrunkenMage said:

"With me, you kill Skyrim's last hope. Mark my words. You'll all be serving elven masters soon. And know then, that I would have stopped them." - Ulfric Stormcloak

Such vanity... He believes he's Skyrim's last hope and that only he can stop the Thalmor.

His ego will be the death of you all.

"But you're willing to sacrifice thousands for your own selfish ambitions." - General Tullius to Ulfric Stormcloak.

Click to expand...

In the mean time General Tullius had valuable information about the Thalmor that could very well end the civil war, but he kept it back, and let the civil war to go on as long as it could.

Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion." <~~~~ Such irony.

Who has the selfish ambitions now?

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Well, I'm not defending their excuses however... you do understand the Emperor and majority of Imperial Brass had no other choice than to sign the WGC? Therefore, it doesn't matter what they know, politics dictates they uphold the treaty. All the Imperials have is their word. Something to be said about that actually.

Raijin said:

In the mean time General Tullius had valuable information about the Thalmor that could very well end the civil war, but he kept it back, and let the civil war to go on as long as it could.

Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion." <~~~~ Such irony.

Who has the selfish ambitions now?

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It doesn't end the Civil War, not even close. When Tullius mentions this "valuable information" as you put it, Ulfric and Galmar don't even care in the slighest. He is still executed and every remaining Legionary is to be hunted down if found.

If Ulfric and Galmar are too thick to even work out that the Thalmor gain from the infighting without Tullius informing them... Then Stormcloaks are just deluding themselves about victory against the Aldmeri Dominion.

Valuable information... I don't even know why you try use that as an argument. You're not doing your side any favors.

"Now is not the time to fight amongst ourselves. I fear dark days approach and all of Skyrim's strength will be needed." - Idgrod Ravencrone

If the apparently "crazy old lady" in Morthal can see it and Ulfric can't, he's not even worthy to be a Jarl let alone High King.

Perhaps you Stormcloaks should get out of the "Nord smash! Nord angry!" line of thinking and actually went "Hang on, I wonder.."

DrunkenMage said:

"With me, you kill Skyrim's last hope. Mark my words. You'll all be serving elven masters soon. And know then, that I would have stopped them." - Ulfric Stormcloak

Such vanity... He believes he's Skyrim's last hope and that only he can stop the Thalmor.

His ego will be the death of you all.

"But you're willing to sacrifice thousands for your own selfish ambitions." - General Tullius to Ulfric Stormcloak.

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He is Skyrim's last hope, in a nationalistic sense. With the Empire, Skyrim may very well survive, but it won't be "skyrim" if the Nords have turned into weak, submissive servants.