Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?
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Mikulas Black-Blade
The Cave Bear
*Drowns it out with Nordic War Horn and Drum combo*
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Gemma: "Did I tell you I got a letter from General Tullius? They've conscripted some more archers and will need..."
Ganna: "Sssssh! That's not something we want everyone to be hearing."
Gemma: "Oh, like the sleepy rebel supporters in this town are going to tell anyone."
Ganna: "Let's just not take the chance. We can talk about this later."
Send them into our arms, little Stormcloaks.
Mikulas Black-Blade
The Cave Bear
Thanks for the info, I'll make sure to kill the bitches next time I'm in my favorite little village in Skyrim.
TheQahnaarin
Son of Skyrim
I don't think any Dragonborn would go on an expedition to say, Atmora, while the war is right around the corner. If you have another prediction for what happens to him/her Id be happy to hear it. But what I mentioned above, having your hero end up brainwashed into reading books with a Daedric Prince or assassinated by the Thalmor would probably make a lot of people depressed.
You seemed very sure the Empire was fine financially without Skyrim, if you win you have to fund the rebuilding of the province, you won't profit off any taxes. And if protecting the citizens was a priority, the Thalmor wouldn't be dragging people off left and right.
Except Skyrim has been a subject lately, hasn't really been standing together as equals.
It's an attachment to life as a soldier. No Nord will stop himself or his child from joining Ulfric because of sentimentalism for the Legion.
Hold security isn't a big problem, LDB has crippled most everyday threats. Considering Whiterun and Solitude are the only capitals actually sieged, it seems like not as many city guard are dead as you may think. There would also be a lot of defectors, or they would just keep working that post, as there's no reason to dispose of them.
Does the rest of the Empire pick up the slack? There are MAJOR leadership issues going on right now in Cyrodiil, I'll be shocked if repairing and securing Skyrim is a priority.
Beirand says "Most of what I make is for folk like you." So he still looks after the everyday citizen, which would include repairs and such. And damage to guardhouses or garrisons (any government or military building) would be something the Jarls would pay to have repaired.
Probably would be easier than a Diplomatic Immunity. Your missing the point though, very successful espionage when all contact with the Empire is severed, now they've got Imperial nobles and generals buttering them up and the Empire's doors are open. And the Thalmor are also learning about security at the same time, and they've very powerful Mages, who knows what they could uncover with just a spell.
Every farm in Whiterun is very successful apparantly, so I wouldn't doubt it.
So you'd agree Skyrim can at least keep its people fed?
A city like Wayrest would be able to supply it's own guards I think.
They shouldn't have been "going about their day." As soon as Balgruuf hands you the axe, he should be making sure civilians are getting to cover. The fact Balgruuf challenges Ulfric, probably prompts Ulfric to use the catapults, in that he's expecting the civilians to be prepared at that point.
Doesn't neccassarily have to be great wizard, probably one whose tampering with something he does not know enough about. I mean Arniel is recreating a sequence that wiped an entire species off the face of the planet.
If you could source the College vs. the Mythic Dawn that be much appreciated, because that actually sounds very interesting.
So...? If Korir were really that bad he could go out of his way to have the place shut down. He's afraid of it, afraid of the unknown. Magic is dangerous after all, and the College is a prime suspect for the Collapse. His city is gone, your College is fine.
TheQahnaarin
Son of Skyrim
The approximate time to to travel from Windhelm to Whiterun. When Ulfric gets the axe, he can't get on a phone and tell his men in Whiterun to start setting up the catapults.
When have I called the Mages monsters? I'd really love to move on from these Colleges arguments, they're way off topic, I just don't see how a couple locals being rightfully upset at the loss of their city makes everyone hate on Korir and them. They're leaving the College alone now, isn't that what the Mages want? Do you expect the Nords to all worship the College or something? Im all for the advancement of knowledge, but when there's danger involved I expect them to take it down a notch. Not a very hard request, I should think.
LegateFasendil
Imperial Legate
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Most likely they vanish after defeating Alduin. Last seen riding a Dragon.
Rebuilding the province with shared resources is a less of a strain on Skyrim. Cyrodiil isn't paying for everything, but the free trade and vast resources will be able to make things go quicker. The Imperial Jarl of Winterhood seeks to use the resources of the Empire to rebuild Winterhold to it's former glory.
The Empire has considerable funds, various worker guilds. Rebuilding Skyrim comes with keeping it as a province, and if the Empire didn't care they wouldn't be wasting time with it.
Protecting citizens is a priority. The Talos Ban is currently law, and people know the consequences of it. Like it or not, they're breaking the law and breaching the treaty. The Empire ignored it, but Ulfric and the Thalmor forced their hand.
Thongvor: "How's the forge today?"
Moth: "It's fine. Much better than the rickety tools I had in the Legion."
Thongvor: "Remember that old rusty sword I had? Damn thing must have had over a hundred chips in it."
Moth: "Well, if you had learned to swing it correctly. A sword is an extension of the arm, not a meat cleaver."
Thongvor: "I was about to say how impressed I was that you always managed to put it back together."
Moth: "Flattery doesn't suit you, Thongvor."
Moth: "Hello, my friend. Come to visit the forge?"
Thongvor: "I grow tired of counting coin all day. Put steel in my hand, not gold."
Moth: "Your family's success burdens you, does it?"
Thongvor: "Sometimes I miss the Legion, back when the Empire stood up for Skyrim."
Moth: "No politics, Thongvor. I told you before."
LDB deals with the Dragon threat. Don't assume every random bandit fort you wipe out or cave you clear in your game, will mean the lore verson follows the same path. Only what happens in the main quest.
Hold security is a big problem. Bandits have grown out of control, majorly. They're raiding farms, and killing far more people than the Thalmor were. Just because parts of the Cviil War were cut, it doesn't mean only Whiterun/Solitude/Windhelm are the only locations fought at. There is dialogue mentioning battles at every city, even a few removed Housecarl's mentioning they killed many of your fellow soldiers etc.
Most city guard were conscripted into the war. Fighting in camps, dying in raids or skirmishes. You also have the various battles in the countryside, which dialogue make out to be fairly big.
What major leadership issues? Titus II being assassinated? That isn't too much of an issue, he only had the power of Veto in Imperial politics anyway. The Elder Council handle resources, legislation, laws etc. Emperor's come and go all the time. You're not a real Imperial Dynasty until someone in your line has been assassinated, or several people.
Nice he says that, except you're not seen as "everyday citizen" you're seen as an adventurer or mercenary. Jarls don't have much money due to the war. Many of their conversations reflect a lack of funds, and little supplies.
Their espionage was successful due to Thalmor Nests, infiltrators, other various agents. It is a risk, and they were getting into high level areas before. Except this has been happening for one hundred and fifty years. The Empire's various agencies have been working to counter what they can. Stormcloak Skyrim lacks zero protection from that, so how much easier will it be for them without facing other agents working against them?
They're not all successful, only two are. Three if you consider Rorikstead.
Maybe. At the moment supplies are scarce, bandits are raiding farms. Large numbers of people are mentioned to be starving and struggling.
So could Markarth. Except it depends, there is conscription in the Empire during times of war.
Of course they should. They would have prepared as best they can, many would be hiding. But, you do get a few who leave their homes quickly. You can never fully prepare for a siege, they don't know what was in store for them.
Ulfric uses catapults, because he can and wants to take the city. Has nothing to do with expecting civilians to be prepared, you're either with Ulfric or against him. He also likens their deaths to getting wheat.
People tamper with things they don't understand all the time. I'd rather it be done at the College around Mages who do have some grasp of what they're doing. How often do you waltz into a ruin, pulling switches, pressing buttons, awakening powerful beings?
After the Oblivion Crisis, it was only natural that the people of Skyrim showed a distrust for mages, even though the vast majority of us actively worked to counter the actions of the Mythic Dawn cult. - Arch-Mage Deneth, On the Great Collapse.
He would shut it down if he could. Except Nords are very superstitious folk, and if they believe these people destroyed an entire massive city... I don't think you could find enough men to gather their pitchforks. Though their hatred and mistrust did run out several Mages.
Mikulas Black-Blade
The Cave Bear
If you're trying to restate the old and faulty Imperial argument that the Thalmor weren't doing anything until Ulfric captured Markarth and reinstated Talos worship, I must humbly disagree.
The fact is, Ulfric most likely wouldn't have reinstated Talos worship had it not been a problem before. If the Empire wasn't cracking down on it and the Thalmor weren't enforcing it, Ulfric most likely would not have asked for said reinstatement of worship. Old Imperial veterans also likely wouldn't join the Stormcloaks, had this not been a problem before Ulfric brought it up.
Now, If you're not saying this, then I apologize for wasting your time
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
After Markarth. That happened way too soon for it to be of any major impact. "It's from that treaty that ended the Great War, remember, when the Emperor was forced by the Thalmor to outlaw Talos worship. We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down. Dragging people off in the middle of the night... one of the main causes of this war, if you ask me." - Alvor
"Sons of Skyrim" is what the Stormcloaks call themselves, they didn't take that title until after the Markarth Incident. When tensions started happeneing between the Empire and Skyrim.
The Thalmor had a presence within Skyrim, but nothing on the scale of what is happening now. Looking at most dialogue, the problems with the Thalmor Justiciars are very recent. They weren't as open as they are now.
"He's always used the ban on the worship of Talos to stir people up against the Empire. He never succeeded in getting much support, so a few months ago he murdered the High King! That got the Empire's attention." - Hadvar
Why would Ulfric go on about it, he believes it isn't good enough to secretly worship or he wants the throne, take your pick. Why would old Nord Legionaries join the Stormcloaks? Many reasons, not everyone is fighting for Talos. Not every ex Legionary is a die hard supporter of the Empire, and not all of the Nords agreed with the treaty.
So why would Legionaries sign up with the Stormcloaks, more correctly, why would Nords join the Stormcloaks? They weren't born Legionaries, they don't feel any differently to those other Nords in the the Stormcloak ranks. Just as people feel the White-Gold Concordat wasn't needed and some feel it was. There were thousands of Nords among the Legion ranks, not all of them would feel the exact same way. Some would be happy the war was just over, others returning home with resentment.
"The 'Great War'- there was nothing great about it. Thousands died on both sides and where did we end up? Did we really save the Empire or did we just plant the seeds for Ulfric's uprising and another war?"
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Rimfaxe96
Well-Known Member
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
On an unrelated note, I mostly kill Imperial Soldiers when playing Skyrim. You just come across them more often, even in Stormcloak controlled Holds. Saw a bunch of them escorting a prisoner just across the road from Windhelm... Talk about balls.
I see three of them sometimes attack Dawnstar too. Had one Imperial Soldier kill a Dawnstar Guard, he did the 'run, jump, stab' kill move while shouting "Send Ulfric my regards!"
Found some attacking an unmarked Forsworn camp, and they thanked me for helping them. Saying not many are willing to take on the Forsworn.
The Legion just seems more active in Skyrim than the so called "True Nords".
I see three of them sometimes attack Dawnstar too. Had one Imperial Soldier kill a Dawnstar Guard, he did the 'run, jump, stab' kill move while shouting "Send Ulfric my regards!"
Found some attacking an unmarked Forsworn camp, and they thanked me for helping them. Saying not many are willing to take on the Forsworn.
The Legion just seems more active in Skyrim than the so called "True Nords".
Mikulas Black-Blade
The Cave Bear
Y'know I run into Stormcloaks quite often as well. Except when I do they don't have a prisoner in rags and binds being "escorted" throughout Skyrim.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Yeah, but you run into three Imperials without a prisoner also.
So far what I have seen is:
- Imperials escorting prisoner
- Imperials patrolling
- Legionary escorting Noble
- Imperials vs Stormcloaks
- Imperials vs Forsworn
- Legionaries attacking unmarked Forsworn camps.
TheQahnaarin
Son of Skyrim
If Bethesda goes for the dystopian-occupied Tamriel I think Thalmor assassination is more likely than them going off on an expedition. "I really don't want to fight against the Thalmor in the next Great War!"- said no Dragonborn ever.
So Motierre and his buddies are trying to reorganize everything, the Thalmor are probably getting ready to go in for the kill, and some Nords gonna walk up and ask for money to fix his house?
The civil war is over though, so the bandits will die down. And the LDB has to go through a lot of bandits for the main quests. Bleak Falls, Ustengrav. The guilds will be canon, even if it wasn't neccassirly the LDB who joined those guilds a lot of those quests involve wiping out dungeons. Stormcloaks are training armies, what better way to train than taking on whatever bandits are remaining?
The Elder Council can usually do that yes, but we don't know if Titus even has an heir. And Motierre is trying to do something big, so that will cause some rough times ahead. I don't think (considering the current political tensions) Bethesda would have you assassinate an Emporer and then say: "oh well the heir took over so it's all good!" Motierre wouldn't arrange it if it didn't open the door for change.
Well it proves that the army isn't his primary customer.
Skyrim's protection from that is their xenophobia.
Pelagia has a nice house so I'd imagine he's successful, and then there's Battle-Borns and Nazem's. Those are in fact the only farms you see in Whiterun.
But Markarth's all went to join the Legion, Wayrest fell way after the end of the war.
If Ulfric truly cared that little for Whiterun, why don't the Stormcloaks loot everything? Why aren't the Battle-Borns executed?
Think of it as living next to nuclear power plant, where safety is more or less an afterthought.
TheQahnaarin
Son of Skyrim
Yes, the freedom-fighting badass Vikings with a leader who can split you apart with his voice and generals wearing bears for armor are way less interesting than the orderly, oppressive government led by an uncultured sickly old general.
Mikulas Black-Blade
The Cave Bear
Now I'll definitely agree that Tensions increased after the Incident, but that's about it. It certainly sounds nothing like the Thalmor to simply not enforce a law thy feel so strongly about.
I feel as though there is a possibility that the Thalmor were a huge problem in the East but not so in the west. It would explain why the Western holds disagree with Ulfric and the Eastern ones don't. Hell, even Falkreath, the hold closest to Cyrodiil mind you, was supposed to be a Stormcloak hold until you sneaky buggers interfered.
The war was going on for quite some time before Ulfric killed Deadking Torygg. Obviously though, when he did take some affirmative action he got quite a bit more support from the more heh "ardent" haters of the Empire.
As you said if the Empire wasn't cracking down on it, it really wouldn't have been very secretive, would it? Nords would walk out on the streets and say something like: "Talos is my righteous protector!" And nothing would happen. That would mean there would be no reason for Ulfric to want Talos worship back if the Thalmor weren't doing anything and the Empire wasn't cracking down. Now if it was secretive worship then that's no way for a Nord to live. That's cowardly, at least to a Nord it is.
That wasn't the point I was trying to make. What I was trying to say was, if there were Nords old enough to remember when Talos was illegal to worship but everyone still did so freely, why would so many join Ulfric's cause?
Mikulas Black-Blade
The Cave Bear
Well said, brother!
LegateFasendil
Imperial Legate
When you two 'fellas' have a moment, haven't you ever considered the possibility that Ulfric's lieing? I mean, anyone who looks at Ulfric the wrong way ends up either in prison or crushed beneath the ruins of liberty.
Have you considered the possibility that you're both being taken for fools?
Seeing how someone brought this up, I remember seeing Stormcloaks calmly being led away in chains even in Eastmarch, while Thalmor took a winter's day stroll thru the Riften Stormcloak camp that sits on the road from Helgen just past that ice pass.
lolz
You're using this defense of culture and brovado as an excuse for blatant ignorance and laziness.
Like I said, when Empire is gone, who is going to pay the bills to keep the lights on and the internet working?
What's even more worrisome, (not like I care really) is the fact that you're so stuck on your cutlure and way of life - what do you do when freedom from Empire and Dominion requires you to sell some things... you throw away your lives into the Imperial war machine, but, what about making REAL sacrifices.
Judging by the responses I've seen, I honestly don't think the Nords are mature enough for Freedom yet. Although, Stormcloaks don't want Freedom they want to rule... a big difference.
But I digress. I enjoyed fighting for the Empire, but the Empire doesn't have all the answers. Although Skyrim is a hell of alot better off in the Empire than left to it's own devices.
And that's not even taking the Empire's side. Just saying. Jarl Ulfric is the Nord's pimp.
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Mikulas Black-Blade
The Cave Bear
Don't know where you're getting that info. There are plenty of people in Stormcloak controlled land, even Stormcloak Jarls, who hate Ulfric and nothing happens to them. At all. But, if anyone speaks out against the Empire they're due for a meeting with the Headsman's axe.
Pretty positive that's a game bug. I mean Everytime Stormcloaks and Thalmor meet up thy always duke it out. I've seen it with my own eyes. Never once have I seen the Thalmor walk through Eastmarch and not have at least one man fight them.
No that's what we're fighting for. Meanwhile you're fighting to make sure the Empire stays on his damn throne
the many loyal taxpayers in Skyrim.
I think we have plenty of Natural Resources to trade before we have to worry about selling things off.
That's only when your damn Imperial arrogance gets the better of you, Legate. Almost as bad as the Thalmor with that plops
Oh he's a pimp alright:
Oh how the ladies love him
