Who realistically would win the Civil War?

[Scarefire EU]

if the dragonborn fights against the thalmor the dragons will side with him/her

 

[Necromis]

ok, one question, and then a couple of corrections on some comments people made. If the Native American Indians were to rise up and try to take over the US would that be a civil war, a rebellion, or a revolutionary war? I am thinking I misspoke and it would be a rebellion, as they are rising up against their masters, so to speak.
Now on to some corrections. People say that the Stormcloaks would not have a cavalary AND that the Empire would have support from home. Is everyonr forgetting that most of the stormcloaks were in the legion? Thus they are already trained to be cavalry. Second does no one like to remember that Gen Tullis says that he is getting no reinforcements from home?

So we have two pretty evenly matched forces in size based on these two factors, and growing recruitmenton both sides from people supporting them. This basically means who wants it more is going to win the war. That being said those wanting their freedom will make it too painful for thos who want to occupy. Thus the Stormcloaks should win. Look at Rome trying to hold the british isles, in time they lost to the barbarians because it was too costly to stay.

 

[Tman2177]

I think the battle would be a bit closer than that. Both sides want to win, both sides realize the importance and significance of this conflict; and both sides feel that they are the rightful "Leaders" of skyrim. Allow me to elaborate on that point, Tulius believes that Skyrim is a part of the Empire and must follow its laws and customs including the banishment of Talos worship. Many Nords consider Talos to be not just a god but a hero and a symbol of respect. So it's difficult for them to let that go. Ulfric, on the other hand, believes that the Empire is a shell of it's former self and is not worthy to be a part of Skyrim and seeks independence for Skyrim and her people, the Nords. And if you listen to Ulfric and Galmor stone-fist, they tell you that they used to be proud soldiers in the legion until the Emperor signed the white-gold concordat outlawing Talos worship. That action led ulfric and many other nords to believe that the Empire was weak and no longer worthy to fight for. Well anyways, Ulfric considered Torygg to be a weak pawn of the Empire and killed him to make a point. He believes he is the key to getting Skyrim back into the place it should be, and he should be it"s king.

 

[VictoireXII]

Legate Galmar - He is a true follower of Ulfric.

Did no one notice this? I don't think Galmar will take too kindly at being called a by a legion term.

 

[Will Olmen]

Second does no one like to remember that Gen Tullis says that he is getting no reinforcements from home?

I would just like to point out that Reinforcements means large bodies of men to aid or relieve standing troops or to provide frontline support for engaged areas. It does not cover the full scope of support. While the Empire may not be sending Tullius legions and units of considerable numbers it would be plain dumb to think they're just sending him post cards. "Wish you were here." "Good luck with the Rebels!" I have zero doubt in my mind that he can requisition mages and veterans to train and operate in his army in small, reasonable numbers. That's why I said he has manpower trickling in. But even ten mages from High rock or a half dozen Bosmer archers from the refugee Valenwood legions coming in to help every couple of weeks is a distinct advantage and a great aid to the regular recruitment that both sides have to rely on.

That being said those wanting their freedom will make it too painful for thos who want to occupy. Thus the Stormcloaks should win. Look at Rome trying to hold the british isles, in time they lost to the barbarians because it was too costly to stay.

You're forgetting that the Imperials are nedic breeds that came from Skyrim. Skyrim wasn't occupied or FORCED into the Empire. It WAS the Empire. When the Cyrodiilic Empire formed the nords considered themselves a part of it. The Empire was formed in the lands of Cyrodiil but born in the lands of Skyrim. So the Empire isn't an occupying force. That's especially naive to say when you take five minutes to realize that 70% of the Imperial Legionnaires in Skyrim ARE nords and they are fighting for their homes as well. As far as they're concerned Ulfric is the one trying to take from them the government THEY want and the way of life THEY want. I mean take a good hard look at Solitude compared to Windhelm. Which would you prefer to live in? Solitude, funded by Imperial trade and thriving off it? Or Windhelm; oldest city in Skyrim and it SHOWS?

On that subject, let's consider what would happen to the individual holds, shall we? Let's say Ulfric wins. Well now Markath is screwed. Its primary export is Silver and with the Imperial trade driven off that Silver goes to other holds. But an isolationist government without export will eat away at itself and eventually die. You can only circulate money so long before you need new income from outside. Even CHINA knows this and they're as isolationist as it gets. Whiterun under Ulfric's rule becomes the breadbasket. Without any foodstuffs coming in from the rest of the Empire the Nords must become completely self sufficient. The lands in the frozen north have very limited farmland. So many nords in Dawnstar and Winterhold begin relying on meat as the cost of bread becomes astronomical while Whiterun strains itself to feed a nation almost by itself. These meat diets lead to more meat cooked, more animals killed. And once they've hunted themselves out of food the northernmost holds will start to fall into a light famine. Causing an exodus. Those that leave them arrive at Solitude and Windhelm. Forcing these cities into a crunch for food and water. And Whiterun, whose populace is already rationing grains and in which the quality of life has dropped dramatically as farms are forced to give away more than three fourths of their crops to feed Skyrim and the economic downfall of no longer being able to sell these crops for needed materials, can no longer support all the holds.The Rift, completely free of the threat of Imperial attack, becomes a center for corrupt officials. The Silver being circulated from Markath is horded by aristocrats that control Riften's people like puppeteers. Engaging in underworld trades with Imperial contacts to procure luxury items that they then bilk the general population for to further horde money. Windhelm becomes a massive expense as Ulfric would no doubt wish to see his home city restored to its former glories. So the kindly peasant class finds a large number of themselves working in quarries for very little pay. But hey, with the silver economy dwindling at least it's work right? They might see their families again someday. Maybe. Anyone with a bit of college can tell you working in a quarry during the iron age was like gambling with your life every day. And a lot of people lost.

Now you may ask "If it is so doomed how do you explain Skyrim supporting itself in the earliest years, Will?" And there's an answer to that. Expansion. Under Imperial rule Skyrim was in position to receive great benefits from the Empire. Food, materials, trade, et cetera et cetera. During that long LONG period the added benefit of the Empire bolstered Skyrim. You have to use your imaginations. Cities wouldn't be composed of two or three dozen people as the game displays. You have to imagine there are more beyond the walls you are within. In other worse Whiterun is THOUSANDS of people. Solitude is tens of thousands. And the influx of Imperial wealth and resources during the first couple CENTURIES encouraged this growth. Skyrim was self sufficient before it was a multi-cultural land that traded with the whole of Tamriel for goods and services. If they try to stand alone the nords are faced with 2 options. 1) Kick everybody who is not a nord out, eliminate 65% of the local luxuries and return to a basic way of life in which everybody worked twice as hard to scrape out half as good a living. Nord or not, best of luck getting an entire CIVILIZATION to be okie dokie with that. Imagine someone coming into your house and saying no more internet or TV, we have to spend 7 days a week working 10 hours a day to be sure our crops come in well enough to feed our family and have enough to turn a profit to purchase things we can not grow. The vast majority of people would be a bit pissed. Option 2) Trade outside Skyrim. But Argonia has very little the nords need and Hammerfell is... a desert. They'd certainly be willing to BUY from Skyrim. But in terms of bringing things INTO Skyrim? Sorry. The stuff Skyrim would need would be either in Imperial or Dominion lands. So congratulations Ulfric. You won! Now your stupid ass has to try and play nice to trade with the people you have been spitting on. Best of luck.

You can pretty it up with speeches and propaganda all you like but bottom line is: Stormcloaks bad. They don't know it. They don't mean to be. But they are bad for Skyrim.

And they would not win. They just haven't got the mixed unit versatility that the Empire has. They are rigid. And EVERY Rigid force in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD has lost to a more fluid, modifiable and adaptable military. Vietnam was a great example of rigid military tactics being unable to beat an enemy with a dozen tricks. Iraq is a great example of how a more versatile and prepared military can root out and eliminate even the toughest of enemies gone to ground.

 

[Tman2177]

I agree with you, the Empire has what's best for Skyrim at heart. Skyrim is one of the oldest provinces in the Empire and so it is respected. Solitude is where i would choose to live, if I were to live in Skyrim, sure i would be upset about the outlaw of Talos worship.

But there are better ways to respond to that kind of situation. One thing the Empire has to remember is, honor is highly prized among the Nordic people, and if they feel they've been dishonored, they will fight.

 

[Stone]

I think Imperials, purely because I just feel the Stormcloaks are somewhat weaker.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

Couldn't the Empire just blockade Windhelm with their navy and destroy the bridge? While lobbing cannon shells and fireballs into the city?

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[Tman2177]

Couldn't the Empire just blockade Windhelm with their navy and destroy the bridge? While lobbing cannon shells and fireballs into the city?

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That would be a good idea, I'm not sure that kind of technology exists at the time the game takes place, however. I think these games are from the midieval era as to where crossbows are a new technological advancement. The Imperials could, however, bombard certain stormcloak territories with catapults using either large stones or burning wood or even hot oil against the stormcloaks. That would be appropriate for the time, i tink.

 

[The Blasphemer]

I'm going to bring some real-life history into my decision, on top of choosing the Stormcloaks to fight for because of what they represent to me, they reminded my of the United State's army in the American Revolution, the Scotts in the Scottish Revolution and so on. These countries all were rag-tag groups that were out numbered, out supplied and out trained, but they all won their freedom through leadership, far superior strategy and knowledge of their landscape. Don't always count out the underdog, history shows us the civil war could have gone either way.

 

[Tman2177]

That is a valid point, but the question here is which faction would be the best for skyrim? The Imperials or the Stormcloaks? I personally think the Empire would be the best choice to lead Skyrim, the Empire has all kinds of goods and services the people of Skyrim would need to survive. What the Stormcloaks have is not what Skyrim needs. If the Stormcloaks win, who will ultimately pay the cost of that war?​

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To me, it is the average citizen of Skyrim that will pay the cost of the conflict, and if the Stormcloaks win, that cost will be much much higher. Do you think the Empire would trade with Skyrim if Ulfric wins? Would the Thalmor? I don't think so, but i may be wrong. I too agree with some of what Ulfric says, about freedom, independence, social liberties including the renewed worship of Talos.​

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But i don't think he can give the people of skyrim what they need, and I'm just talking about the nords. The other races would be a very large problem for skyrim if Ulfric wins. Poverty and famine would be rampant across Skyrim and in most of the holds. In conclusion, the Empire, like it or not, is the better choice for the survival of Skyrim and it's people.​

 

[Jeremius]

CHEESE WOULD WIN THE WAR!!!!! FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!

 

[Tman2177]

I think Sheogorath would appear and take all the cheese back to the Shivering Isles.

 

[bulbaquil]

Who the "best choice" to lead Skyrim is is irrelevant for the terms of the question. It's "who would most realistically win", and it seems set up in my opinion to be pretty close to 50/50 absent the Dragonborn. I.e., "who would win?", not "who should win?".

Sometimes the "best choice" loses.

 

[Dagmar]

Is everyonr forgetting that most of the stormcloaks were in the legion?.

There's nothing really definitive to support this conclusion. While Ulfric and Galmar are veterans of the Imperial Legion, we have no sense regarding the composition of the remaining Stormcloaks. 30 years ago during the Great War it would be fair to estimate that most able bodied young Nords would have been in the Imperial Legion but not during the civil war. There's nothing to indicate that there were any mass defections of Nord Legionnaires in the game either. To the contrary, additional Nords enlist in the Imperial Legion because of the civil war so outside of older Nords that retired from the Imperial Legion like Ulfric and Galmar, it's actually a more natural conclusion to draw that most younger Nords that were in the Imperial Legion remain in the Imperial Legion. It's just as likely that a significant portion of the Stormcloaks are constituted from the local militias as well as untrained recruits.

 

[Omega Dragon]

That is a valid point, but the question here is which faction would be the best for skyrim? The Imperials or the Stormcloaks?​

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Uh, the question here is about who do we think would realistically win. lol

 

[Tman2177]

I was posing another question based off of some things other people were posting on.

 

[Flint firestorm]

The legion has supirior armor.
The legion has a leader experienced in leading troops and tactics where as ulfric was a soldier, not a tactician.
The legion has redgaurds who are the best at melee combat.
The legion has more mages.
The legion in skyrim is the seventh legion, there are at least eleven other legion that the imperials could use if the seventh falls.
The legion has more of the territory in skyrim
The legion can attack from two fronts if they lose skyrim

 

[azali100]

Actually I think there are 20 leigons. So yeah. Even more man power.

 

[kirak95197]

Ulfric would be dead if

Spoiler

Alduin

didn't interfere. With Ulfirc Stormcloak dead the Stormcloaks would lose a great amount of morale and possibly become more disorganized. This would allow the Imperials to demolish the Stormcloaks.