Using dark powers to do good things?

[Dabiene Caristiana]

Good and Evil is really an illusion. It's a matter of perspective. It's based on intent. If your intention is 'good' but you perform 'evil' deeds in order to facilitate, how do you weigh the action? It's much easier for me to look at it from a different perspective... service to self or service to others. That is the real polarity of the Universe imo.

Vampires are parasites. They cannot exist without serving themselves to another entity's blood. Be it a rat or a human, it makes no difference. Something else must die or suffer a loss in order for the vampire to exist. By default, all vampires are service to self... therefore 'evil'. Blood Potions may seem like a nice workaround but that blood in the potion came from something.

In my opinion...

Since the subject of "what if the source was evil would it be good then?" debate is being discussed...

What about 'regular' people? We have to kill in order to have sustenance. Does that make us evil? We harvest another living creature for it's meat. How is it any different in that context?

Everything needs energy to survive. Thus, in my mind for a vampire that was created in vile circumstances (Lamae Beolfag tale) if they fed off bandits or people that would do harm to innocent people they are inadvertently saving someone's life. However, vampires can snap...

However we're part of nature so... For me as long as the death is quick and nearly painless then I'm fine with it. And the body's resource is made to good used and not wasted it's fine. Then again I grew up in an area full of avid hunters. So... my opinion may be biased. XD

 

[LotusEater]

Good and Evil is really an illusion. It's a matter of perspective. It's based on intent. If your intention is 'good' but you perform 'evil' deeds in order to facilitate, how do you weigh the action? It's much easier for me to look at it from a different perspective... service to self or service to others. That is the real polarity of the Universe imo.

Vampires are parasites. They cannot exist without serving themselves to another entity's blood. Be it a rat or a human, it makes no difference. Something else must die or suffer a loss in order for the vampire to exist. By default, all vampires are service to self... therefore 'evil'. Blood Potions may seem like a nice workaround but that blood in the potion came from something.

In my opinion...

Since the subject of "what if the source was evil would it be good then?" debate is being discussed...

What about 'regular' people? We have to kill in order to have sustenance. Does that make us evil? We harvest another living creature for it's meat. How is it any different in that context?

Everything needs energy to survive. Thus, in my mind for a vampire that was created in vile circumstances (Lamae Beolfag tale) if they fed off bandits or people that would do harm to innocent people they are inadvertently saving someone's life. However, vampires can snap...

However we're part of nature so... For me as long as the death is quick and nearly painless then I'm fine with it. And the body's resource is made to good used and not wasted it's fine. Then again I grew up in an area full of avid hunters. So... my opinion may be biased. XD

If you were denied meat from dead animals for the rest of your life, you would survive. Maybe not as comfortably, but you could survive fairly easily on fruits, veggies, nuts, eggs, various dairy products etc. Vampires on the other hand don't have that luxury. They must drink blood. Period. Vampires don't have the vegetarian option. As far as whether or not eating meat (which I do btw) makes us evil. It's all about honoring the animal and not wasting. Killing an elephant just to get a couple steaks while letting the rest rot... evil. Killing an elephant, feeding a village while honoring the animal... not so much.

 

[Dabiene Caristiana]

According to studies I've read, people do need some solid and direct source of protein. Sure they can survive on nuts, but they wouldn't be as strong. Our ancestors hunted meat. Because they NEEDED it. Otherwise they would die out. Probably being eaten by bears or large cats.

But we can agree to disagree. Honestly everyone has their own personal view of things. However I do enjoy these kinds of discussions... It really makes you think, doesn't it?

 

[Wauten Dayhil]

Well, if the vampire chose to feed on bandits (those who chose the life of banditry because they could, rather than because they must), then that would be feeding on those who are evil. And, if a thief was a thief because he could be, not because he was feeding his family, then that's a sort of evil. However, if the thief is acting as a sort of trickster (moving valuables around a house without actually taking them) or a Robin Hood-like figure (steal from rich, give to poor, yada yada), then that would be questionable and noble, respectively.

 

[Wauten Dayhil]

According to studies I've read, people do need some solid and direct source of protein. Sure they can survive on nuts, but they wouldn't be as strong. Our ancestors hunted meat. Because they NEEDED it. Otherwise they would die out. Probably being eaten by bears or large cats.

But we can agree to disagree. Honestly everyone has their own personal view of things. However I do enjoy these kinds of discussions... It really makes you think, doesn't it?

Actually, our ancestors initially fed solely on vegetables. It was only after we started hunting that we stopped producing a vital enzyme that made it necessary for us to eat meat (we had too much of it from the natural creation and the consumption of the enzyme, so we stopped producing it ourselves).

 

[Dabiene Caristiana]

Actually, our ancestors initially fed solely on vegetables. It was only after we started hunting that we stopped producing a vital enzyme that made it necessary for us to eat meat (we had too much of it from the natural creation and the consumption of the enzyme, so we stopped producing it ourselves).

To be fair, the article was dated. Then again it seems like every day each discovery is made that contradicts the previous one. So honestly, I don't know what to believe anymore. Bottom line, I can't live without a viable source of protein. My body literally weakens. I have to have it every day. I've tried to get off of it, try a different diet just to see. But I'm an omnivorous being. My body type demands meat in some shape or form. I just hope the animal killed for me had a quick death, and enjoy it. Also putting it to good use and exercising to build muscle.... Which I so need to get on track with that lol.

 

[LotusEater]

According to studies I've read, people do need some solid and direct source of protein. Sure they can survive on nuts, but they wouldn't be as strong. Our ancestors hunted meat. Because they NEEDED it. Otherwise they would die out. Probably being eaten by bears or large cats.

But we can agree to disagree. Honestly everyone has their own personal view of things. However I do enjoy these kinds of discussions... It really makes you think, doesn't it?

It's not about whether eating meat is evil. I don't think it is if done properly. I stay far away from processed mystery meat because I don't know what it is really, I don't what mental state the animal was in during slaughter, I don't know what methods were used to kill. I won't ingest that crap.

Vampires take blood and have no use for the rest unless they want to create a slave and thus create another abomination. Most times vampires don't turn their victims. They feed and leave the rest to rot. Evil.

 

[Wauten Dayhil]

Vampires take blood and have no use for the rest unless they want to create a slave and thus create another abomination. Most times vampires don't turn their victims. They feed and leave the rest to rot. Evil.

Not all of them do that. Many iterations of vampires show them as mosquito-type predators. They feed, enough to fill themselves but not enough to kill, and then leave the prey be afterwards, alive and slightly woozy.

 

[LotusEater]

Vampires take blood and have no use for the rest unless they want to create a slave and thus create another abomination. Most times vampires don't turn their victims. They feed and leave the rest to rot. Evil.

Not all of them do that. Many iterations of vampires show them as mosquito-type predators. They feed, enough to fill themselves but not enough to kill, and then leave the prey be afterwards, alive and slightly woozy.

Consumption without consent? I mean if they found someone to have a symbiotic relationship with, where they return the favor in some fashion, I could get behind that. However that would seem to me to be quite the exception in all of vampire lore. Unless you believe the sexy, sparkly Twilight vampires are the rule and not the exception.

 

[Wauten Dayhil]

Consumption without consent? I mean if they found someone to have a symbiotic relationship with, where they return the favor in some fashion, I could get behind that. However that would seem to me to be quite the exception in all of vampire lore. Unless you believe the sexy, sparkly Twilight vampires are the rule and not the exception.

Good point about the consumption without consent, and no -- no, no, no -- I don't consider Twilight vampires to be related to vampires beyond how much they suck. I just remember reading a number of stories of vampires that would feed without killing.

 

[LotusEater]

Consumption without consent? I mean if they found someone to have a symbiotic relationship with, where they return the favor in some fashion, I could get behind that. However that would seem to me to be quite the exception in all of vampire lore. Unless you believe the sexy, sparkly Twilight vampires are the rule and not the exception.

Good point about the consumption without consent, and no -- no, no, no -- I don't consider Twilight vampires to be related to vampires beyond how much they suck. I just remember reading a number of stories of vampires that would feed without killing.

That is a grey area for sure. I mean even consumption without consent would be a debatable sort of evil. It can get confusing. I'm confused now, lol. That's why I try to use the StS/StO metric. Makes this crazy planet a little easier to navigate.

 

[Kohlar the Unkilled]

Good and Evil is really an illusion. It's a matter of perspective. It's based on intent. If your intention is 'good' but you perform 'evil' deeds in order to facilitate, how do you weigh the action? It's much easier for me to look at it from a different perspective... service to self or service to others. That is the real polarity of the Universe imo.

Vampires are parasites. They cannot exist without serving themselves to another entity's blood. Be it a rat or a human, it makes no difference. Something else must die or suffer a loss in order for the vampire to exist. By default, all vampires are service to self... therefore 'evil'. Blood Potions may seem like a nice workaround but that blood in the potion came from something.

In my opinion...

 

[LotusEater]

 

[hershangames]

That's why I try to use the StS/StO metric. Makes this crazy planet a little easier to navigate.

What exactly is that StS/StO you speak of? I googled it, but couldn't really find anything.


And on the other side, on the discussion about whether or not eating meat is evil, I am vegetarian. Not vegan(not in a million years), just vegetarian, and I make some exceptions about seafood.

The thing is, when I started I was really convinced that it was the right thing to do, now I'm not so sure. There's nothing wrong with eating meat, as long as you don't swallow 6 steaks just 'cause you feel like it.


And no, vampires are not inheretly evil to me. They need to feed on human blood, just like any other specie needs to feed on something else. If they could drink any other animal's blood, they would've done so already.

sent by the almighty Hershan from tapatalk

 

[LotusEater]

That's why I try to use the StS/StO metric. Makes this crazy planet a little easier to navigate.

What exactly is that StS/StO you speak of? I googled it, but couldn't really find anything.


And on the other side, on the discussion about whether or not eating meat is evil, I am vegetarian. Not vegan(not in a million years), just vegetarian, and I make some exceptions about seafood.

The thing is, when I started I was really convinced that it was the right thing to do, now I'm not so sure. There's nothing wrong with eating meat, as long as you don't swallow 6 steaks just 'cause you feel like it.


And no, vampires are not inheretly evil to me. They need to feed on human blood, just like any other specie needs to feed on something else. If they could drink any other animal's blood, they would've done so already.

sent by the almighty Hershan from tapatalk

Undead is not a species, it's an abomination... So that comparison is highly flawed. Sorry.



StS/StO= Service to Self/Service to Others

 

[Wauten Dayhil]

Undead is not a species, it's an abomination... So that comparison is highly flawed. Sorry.

Well, it wouldn't survive if it was an abomination. All creations have a place in the world. Look at vampire bats. They drink blood to survive, and it's just instinct. They may not be undead, but they're still sucking the life force from another creature. So, what if vampires are also driven by instinct? Then the real culprit is the creator of the vampire. Plus, there are people who believe they're vampires, and consciously make the decision to drink blood. So, isn't that more evil than drinking blood to survive?

 

[LotusEater]

Undead is not a species, it's an abomination... So that comparison is highly flawed. Sorry.

Well, it wouldn't survive if it was an abomination. All creations have a place in the world. Look at vampire bats. They drink blood to survive, and it's just instinct. They may not be undead, but they're still sucking the life force from another creature. So, what if vampires are also driven by instinct? Then the real culprit is the creator of the vampire. Plus, there are people who believe they're vampires, and consciously make the decision to drink blood. So, isn't that more evil than drinking blood to survive?

Undead. Undead. UNDEAD. Sorry to sound like an ass but what part of undead do people not understand. God (Creator, Source, Universal Conscience... whatever) didn't create the undead. Humans that are animated corpses that feed on other humans is not justifiable in any context.

Comparing a leech to a vampire is an insult to leeches. I know we've all been bombarded with media glamorizing vampires our whole lives, but seriously?

 

[Wauten Dayhil]

I'm not glamorizing them. The way I see it, if vampires were real, then the first vampires would be egotistical rich folk who didn't know how to give up their life without a fight, so they found a way to become immortal beings. They're monsters. But if they somehow turned other people into vampires, without permission, then the others wouldn't be monsters. They'd be unfortunate souls who then needed to draw on the life force of others to survive. That's not evil.

Now, I don't believe that vampires truly exist, not in the sense that we think, but if they did, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. Assuming a higher power exists, then nothing could exist without its say so. Even if we were to experiment and create an undead being, the potential for that to happen would not exist unless the higher power allowed it. So, really, there are no abominations, not if you consider an 'unholy' creature to be contrary to a 'holy' one.

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[LotusEater]

I'm not glamorizing them. The way I see it, if vampires were real, then the first vampires would be egotistical rich folk who didn't know how to give up their life without a fight, so they found a way to become immortal beings. They're monsters. But if they somehow turned other people into vampires, without permission, then the others wouldn't be monsters. They'd be unfortunate souls who then needed to draw on the life force of others to survive. That's not evil.

Now, I don't believe that vampires truly exist, not in the sense that we think, but if they did, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. Assuming a higher power exists, then nothing could exist without its say so. Even if we were to experiment and create an undead being, the potential for that to happen would not exist unless the higher power allowed it. So, really, there are no abominations, not if you consider an 'unholy' creature to be contrary to a 'holy' one.

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Lots of 'ifs' in that statement. I prefer to stick to actual lore that came before Hollyweird grabbed the narrative. That is a broad statement saying that just because something exists, it must be ok because the Creator allows it. So any atrocity that occurs is 'ok' because the Creator allows it? Not to get in to an esoteric debate but there is a natural progression to things in the 3D world. You live, you learn your lessons, you die, you move on. Vampires disrupt this progression for themselves and, if left unchecked, for many, many others. Vampires don't evolve nor adapt. Without blood and only blood, they are hobbled... catatonic if denied long enough. Living creatures have the power to adapt. If a leech runs out of specimens to drain, it will adapt or perish. A vampire does neither. Even without blood, a vampire will persist in some form on the physical plane, always ready to be reconstituted by blood. There are many ways to end a vampire and none of them involve blood denial. So in truth, a vampire doesn't consume blood for 'life', it consumes it for power.

Whether we are talking about the 'original' vampire or the multitudes of minions, they are all things that should not be.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

So who is to judge whether the victims are evil? It's still consumption of another entity. At what point does one become 'evil' enough to be considered fair game? Is stealing evil? If so does that mean that a thiefs life is automatically forfeit?

Query: why are vampires parasites and not predators?