Thrall Thread : Living with the dead

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Irishman

Well-Endowed Member
Alrite guys, I am going to start this build now. Im sure I will have more questions but thanks again so far and hopefully before too long, I will be contributing a fair bit more to this thread and the Thrall List. Its been too long since I have been a Necromancer and never a 'true' Necromancer at that.

Wish me luck :p
 

iMACobra

Experienced Necromancer
Alrite guys, I am going to start this build now. Im sure I will have more questions but thanks again so far and hopefully before too long, I will be contributing a fair bit more to this thread and the Thrall List. Its been too long since I have been a Necromancer and never a 'true' Necromancer at that.

Wish me luck :p
Good luck and sorry if I swayed your opinion from being a Breton to an Altmer just because of the extra magicka over magic resistance since 100% spell absorption negates all magic damage. In the end, Skyrim should be about having fun not being the best and most OP character in the game (even though the Dragonborn should be the most powerful being...). Roleplaying is fun and that is why some people choose not to be Necromage vampires just because of all the added benefits it gives. Feel free to tell us all about your great stories and endeavors. I should probably start mine too...

EDIT: Oh yeah!!! Something extremely important and beneficial I totally forgot to mention about spell absorption, having 100% absorption will continuously absorb magicka from the Circle of Protection spell essentially giving you a huge Restore Magicka well to stand in. Extremely useful if you have a slow as heck magic regen rate as a result of the Atronach Stone or other things. Its duration is increased by Necromage and it can be dual casted to affect higher level undead than Guardian Circle. Circle of Protection tomes do not start appearing in random loot till level 35+ so you'll have to get your Restoration skill to Expert level and then buy it from Colette Marence.
 

Adam Warlock

Well-Known Member
As a conjurer , I personally don`t prefer the Spell Absorption ability because of it`s effect on summons.
The Game sees these affected spells and shouts as being cast on oneself which is why they are absorbed.
With sufficient magic resistance , you shouldn`t be taking much elemental damage anyway
With passive resist at 65%(Breton+Agent of Mara+Lord Stone), I am quite happy with no more than a Vampire`s additional 50% frost resist and one Resist Fire enchant. There are very few foes who are using powerful Shock at this level but if I happen to be fighting Thalmor Wizards or Miraak for instance , I can just chug a Resist Shock potion or switch to a piece of Resist Shock gear

The kicker for me are the places where Dead Thralls are useless because they won`t travel there , most notably Apochrypha and Sovngarde.
In those locales ,My fail-safe has always been either Storm Atronach, Dremora Lord , or Wrathman but that becomes quite a problem if I`m absorbing my spells.
Why would I want to come back from defeating Alduin with a Call of Valor shout that rarely/never works?

If u go for high passive absorption don`t bother with the far-left branch of the Conjuration perk tree as it will be greatly diminished in value

Leaving myself with a bit of vulnerability keeps me on my toes since my minions typically wipe the floor with most enemies while I am rarely detected.
I think I can count on one hand the times I`ve even felt the need to invoke my Breton`s Dragonskin power

just my opinion mind you but i feel spell absorption to be much better suited for a destruction , Alteration , or restoration mage build.
Illusion ? idk but probably not so much

Fact is that a Breton can have their cake and eat it too.
Dragonskin + Aetherial Crown(Atronach Stone) gives 100% absorption when you really need it but without the long-term consequences
a fine alternative to a heavy perk investment in Alteration
 

Irishman

Well-Endowed Member
I went with the Altmer. He is an aged warlock, Volanaro.

Ive currently been running around getting good staves (paralyse/revenant/wall of flames), I got Illia as a sidekick and I am also collecting ingredients and soul gems. I'm signing up to the College and doing the Azura Quest at the moment.

For the time being Ive set the difficulty right down and have been fast travelling (I will Rp the character later). Ive found that punching people is quite effective on novice difficulty and the hardest thing I have encountered is a Hagraven :p

I'm really trying to go through the build without leveling speech much at all. So far so good, but I can see it will become a lot more difficult as time goes on.
 

Trickstar

New Member
I love the Unofficial Patches, as they fix the absorption thing (among many bugs =P)
Though I agree that absorption is probably not worth the hassle if you are a summoner of any kind. Ideally your summons will be tanking for you. Plus it gives off a little flavor, with a vulnerable chess king controlling his magical pawns.

My favorite mod to use is Apocalypse spells as it has tons of varied summons, both undead and not. Of course it also has tons of new spells for every school. I don't want to turn this into a mod discussion thread, so I apologize if I'm being off topic; I'm just mentioning mods for any PC players in this thread.

I love the Conjuration spells and I have frequently used them in various mage characters, but I have yet to make a necromancer. I use SPERG, so it would be a powerful build, not to mention incredibly fun and rewarding for roleplay purposes. I'll follow Irishman and make a pure necromancer my next character. Altmer male, name undecided.
 

iMACobra

Experienced Necromancer
Adam Warlock: I see what you mean by spell absorption is annoying not being able to summon things. My main point in getting spell absorption over magic resistance was so you could save a few perks from putting into magic resist where they could be used elsewhere useful instead of being redundant since having 100% absorption will negate all damage anyway. This would especially be useful with a low leveled character of say 34 because of the limited perks. I also presented the idea that spell absorption can actually give back more magicka than originally casted from the absorbed summons.

This is annoying if you want to use summons but the circumstances you presented (Sovngarde & Apocrypha) are far and few between. You don't even need thralls in Sovngarde because the only thing you fight is Alduin and even then you've got 3 heroes fighting by your side. For Apocrypha, I see that it would be annoying to fight the Seekers/Lurkers by yourself if you're a necromancer then you could just keep trying to cast summons w/the Atronach Stone imbued Aetherial Crown unequipped for a 62% or 70% chanto summon things. All the missed summons might actually benefit you with more magicka regained and if you want the Seekers/Lurkers off your back while you're trying to summon things, then summon an Ash Guardian since that isn't affected by spell absorption. Also conjurers are different from necromancers in that they summon things while necromancers raise the dead, not summon them. You might as well call yourself a conjurer/summoner instead of a necromancer. Now I know there's no widely used definition for what a necromancer really is but that is just my opinion, take it as you will.

@Irishloot the invisible Dawnstar w/o increasing Speech. Loot chest, find Ahkari, hit till aggressive, reload, rinse and repeat.

Trickstar: Yes, the Unofficial Skyrim Patch does fix the spell absorption bug, but I actually use the bug to my advantage to regain more magicka back from trying to summon things with 100% spell absorb since I am trying to become a pure necromancer not summoning things for quick defense and refuge. I go out to find bodies then raise them which I find more challenging. At low levels, enemies are just not strong enough to get you to run away from them to summon things. If there are no dead bodies to raise, rely on your other skills and staves/magic. Alternatively, Ash Guardians can still be summoned and Arvak can be summoned outside.

You'll find most of the users on this thread are most likely on Xbox 360/PS3 instead of PC as no one really talks about mods or console commands. I don't really use any mods because I want to feel as close to the consoles as possible so that any mod conflicts will not affect my game making it seem like I made new discoveries that I present here for console players but only to find out it's because of a mod or mod conflict that messed up my game. The only reason why I don't use the Unofficial Skyrim Patch is because they make dead bodies that were originally permanent disappear. For example, Velehk Sain, a really cool thrall although he sucks, was always permanent in all of my playthroughs. I was so angry of losing him after installing the Unofficial Patch. Not even anchoring him worked. I also found the Old Orc to be unanchorable, disappearing like any normal random encounter would after I fast traveled to and fro a far away location. I always loved the perma corpses because they were so easy to watch over and I didn't have to worry about them disappearing which gave me a lot less stress and a lot of relief. Also, a corpse that I made perma w/o the Unoffical Patch, Susanna the Wicked, did not become perma w/ the Patch the same way a glitched the quest. I don't want to have to worry about losing such great perma corpses as Arondil, Sild, Kornalus, Umana, Sulla etc. because they might be unanchorable.

There is almost nothing you can't fix with console commands. Feel free to talk about spell mods and others because I once used a great necromancy mod called Undeath where at the end you could turn into a lich. One of the Active Effects you could gain from the mod was you'd be able to raise up to 5 corpses with the tradeoff of never being able to summon things for like 3 days.

Again, I don't know the true definition of a necromancer, but I generally think of them as only raising the dead not summoning things otherwise that's a conjurer which is whole different class.
 

Adam Warlock

Well-Known Member
Perhaps I`ve never actually been a pure Necromancer.o_O

More like a Master of Minions the way I enjoy making mixed crews of followers , dead thralls , summons , and even the various helpers who fit in the pet slot.
 

iMACobra

Experienced Necromancer
Perhaps I`ve never actually been a pure Necromancer.o_O

More like a Master of Minions the way I enjoy making mixed crews of followers , dead thralls , summons , and even the various helpers who fit in the pet slot.
Wellllll, now that you say that... I technically used Cicero (dual wield), Serana, Follower No. 3 (usually Frea or Teldryn Sero), 2 Dead Thralls, and a Dwarven Sphere/Riekling for one of my playthroughs... talk about a Party!!! I don't generally like tying down quest followers from finishing there associated quests and I don't add the 2 DB Initiates as additional followers for a total of 5 followers because they are just too generic for me with no personality to travel with.
 

Adam Warlock

Well-Known Member
Sonja and Serana are BFF and as vampires that really means something.
I used the opportunity just after killing Arch-Curate Vyrthur to create an additional follower slot that allows me to obtain/dismiss any other regular follower as I wish.
Not really a fan of the quest followers no matter how powerful they may be . they all remind me of Barbus in that situation
 

iMACobra

Experienced Necromancer
Serana uses the same coding as Cicero and the 2 DB Initiates. You do not have to use the loophole after killing Vyrthur to gain another follower. Anytime, you can get a follower, bring them near Serana, dismiss follower and quickly rehire, exit dialogue prematurely, then get Serana to follow you. You need a bit of good timing for this to work but you don't need to use loopholes in the Dawnguard questline to gain another follower alonside Serana. You dismiss the original follower and get another follower as easily. This works for Cicero and the 2 Initiates so thus I have Serana, Cicero, and another follower slot. I just don't like the 2 generic initiates and it gives less flavor to the team with 3 assassins and only 1 vampire.
 

Irishman

Well-Endowed Member
Invisible chests! Yes, I have never used them but they will come in handy this playthrough.

I am still undecided as to going 100% absorb or 85% resist. You guys make good points and eventually I will not be using atronachs at all. My Thralls will have summoning staves for extra firepower and I will enjoy the challenges of Apocyphra when I get there after breezing through most other battles with my horde.

I would like to go as close to a 'pure' necromancer as I can (after I get set up), even maybe forfeiting followers (I will see how things go 1st).

By the end of today I'm hoping to (glitch) my Alchemy and Enchanting to 100 and have a good start on Conjuration. This will give me a good idea of whether I can get my Alteration to 100 for Atronach Perk.



As a side note on leveling Conjuration, the old age debate of Soul Trap or Bound Sword. The answer is sitting in plain view on the Conjuration UESP page.

Soul Trap gives 215 exp per cast
Bound Sword gives 469 exp per cast

The amount of times I have said I'm sure Bound Sword levels it quicker and people have gone blue in the face disagreeing, it finally puts it to bed (I hope, I'm not misinterpreting this am I? haha). Also the spell tome for Bound Sword is half the price of Soul Trap so that is even better.
 

iMACobra

Experienced Necromancer
Soul Trapping a Corpse

An even faster way to level, although one that exploits a bug, would be to find any sort of dead body and repeatedly cast Soul Trap on it with dual-cast; you can go from level 40 to 91 in less than 10 minutes. If you stand near the big magic well in the College of Winterhold, you will gain additional magicka regeneration. If this is combined with the Altmer's Highborn racial power, your magicka will regenerate extremely quickly.
  • This bug is fixed by the Unofficial Skyrim Patch.
[edit] Soul Trap on your Horse

Alternatively, repeatedly cast Soul Trap on your horse - unlike followers, your horse will not become hostile (or run away) no matter how many times you attack it.

Taken from uesp.net.

If you use summons I would go with magic resist. Don't use summons? Go with spell absortion. Either way, as an Altmer, you'll save 3 perks either way. It'll only makes a difference if you were a Breton. Save 3 perks with spell absorb or save 5 perks with Magic Resist. Which one would you choose?
 

Irishman

Well-Endowed Member
Its bizarre that UESP would say that its quicker when the table above it says that summoning bound sword gives double the exp. Perhaps the UESP Note is taking into account that Soul Trap requires slightly more magicka to cast (ie. regenerate) and Bound Sword is a novice spell compared to an Apprentice spell?

To get the spell absorption requires 100 in Alteration and 70 in Restoration compared to 70 in Alteration.

It will be a fight against leveling my actual level, but I will post my results when I get there :)
 

iMACobra

Experienced Necromancer
I just did some tests to see if it would be possible to be level 34 and have all the perks you wanted. This is the BEST you can do: 100 Conjuration, 70 Restoration, 100 Enchanting, 80 Alchemy, and 70 Alteration will put you just close to the edge of the level 35 mark. With this you won't even be able to reach 90 Illusion for buffing magic on thralls. The highest you can reach in Illusion as an Altmer before turning lv. 35, if you disregard leveling Alteration altogether, is 72 Illusion. Everything presented here is if you don't level any other skills AT ALL... So don't just level Alchemy to 100 right away, do it up to 80 and then raise it up all the way when you have all the other perks you wanted. As of now, I think it is better to go with 3/3 magic resist if you want to stay under lv. 35. The buffing illusion magic is not really needed if you are going to enchant thrall gear anyway.

EDIT: Skill levels I mentioned about is if you used 4 perks up to Twin Souls in Conj, 3 perks up to Necromage in Resto, 8 perks on the middle branch in Ench, 7 perks up to the right side in Alch, and 5 perks up to 3/3 Magic Resist. With this, you'll have 6 perks leftover to use elsewhere before turning lv. 35.
 

iMACobra

Experienced Necromancer
Its bizarre that UESP would say that its quicker when the table above it says that summoning bound sword gives double the exp. Perhaps the UESP Note is taking into account that Soul Trap requires slightly more magicka to cast (ie. regenerate) and Bound Sword is a novice spell compared to an Apprentice spell?

To get the spell absorption requires 100 in Alteration and 70 in Restoration compared to 70 in Alteration.

It will be a fight against leveling my actual level, but I will post my results when I get there :)
I believe the reason why using Soul Trap(w/the bug) over Bound Sword is faster at leveling conjuration because not only can you not dual-cast(w/o the perk) Bound Sword for double the exp. gain, you have to continually sheathe it which takes more time than with Soul Trap where you CAN dual-cast it(again w/o perk) for double exp. gain AND it's just repeatedly dual-casting casting it unlike where you have to single cast, sheathe, single cast, sheathe, single cast...
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
Invisible chests! Yes, I have never used them but they will come in handy this playthrough.

I am still undecided as to going 100% absorb or 85% resist. You guys make good points and eventually I will not be using atronachs at all. My Thralls will have summoning staves for extra firepower and I will enjoy the challenges of Apocyphra when I get there after breezing through most other battles with my horde.

I would like to go as close to a 'pure' necromancer as I can (after I get set up), even maybe forfeiting followers (I will see how things go 1st).

By the end of today I'm hoping to (glitch) my Alchemy and Enchanting to 100 and have a good start on Conjuration. This will give me a good idea of whether I can get my Alteration to 100 for Atronach Perk.



As a side note on leveling Conjuration, the old age debate of Soul Trap or Bound Sword. The answer is sitting in plain view on the Conjuration UESP page.

Soul Trap gives 215 exp per cast
Bound Sword gives 469 exp per cast

The amount of times I have said I'm sure Bound Sword levels it quicker and people have gone blue in the face disagreeing, it finally puts it to bed (I hope, I'm not misinterpreting this am I? haha). Also the spell tome for Bound Sword is half the price of Soul Trap so that is even better.
Have you tried the stone outside Whiterun? I picked it up on a larf last night just 'cause I was going past and it was a hoot! I went in to Broken Knife and killed everyone but the Chief, then used the power to raise them again and they ALL attacked him. Needless to say, he didn't last long (although he did take out quite a few). It does have quite an area affect to it, especially in a small space. I'm back to the Lady Stone again, but I might pick it up on my Aetherium Crown since I'm headed for Dawnguard Volkahirism soon. :)
 

iMACobra

Experienced Necromancer
Have you tried the stone outside Whiterun? I picked it up on a larf last night just 'cause I was going past and it was a hoot! I went in to Broken Knife and killed everyone but the Chief, then used the power to raise them again and they ALL attacked him. Needless to say, he didn't last long (although he did take out quite a few). It does have quite an area affect to it, especially in a small space. I'm back to the Lady Stone again, but I might pick it up on my Aetherium Crown since I'm headed for Dawnguard Volkahirism soon. :)
If you stick the Ritual Stone on the Aetherial Crown you can have unlimited uses a day by unequipping and reequiping after use unless that was what you were saying because I didn't quite understand.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
Have you tried the stone outside Whiterun? I picked it up on a larf last night just 'cause I was going past and it was a hoot! I went in to Broken Knife and killed everyone but the Chief, then used the power to raise them again and they ALL attacked him. Needless to say, he didn't last long (although he did take out quite a few). It does have quite an area affect to it, especially in a small space. I'm back to the Lady Stone again, but I might pick it up on my Aetherium Crown since I'm headed for Dawnguard Volkahirism soon. :)
If you stick the Ritual Stone on the Aetherial Crown you can have unlimited uses a day by unequipping and reequiping after use.
Yup. It's still there, but I had to reverse the order since it's the oldest that ends up on the crown. I had to go back and get the Lady in order to get the Ritual on the crown. :) I don't know if I'll use it very often since I like my +70 regen -28% destruct circlet, but, hey, it's good to have on hand, eh?
 

iMACobra

Experienced Necromancer
Have you tried the stone outside Whiterun? I picked it up on a larf last night just 'cause I was going past and it was a hoot! I went in to Broken Knife and killed everyone but the Chief, then used the power to raise them again and they ALL attacked him. Needless to say, he didn't last long (although he did take out quite a few). It does have quite an area affect to it, especially in a small space. I'm back to the Lady Stone again, but I might pick it up on my Aetherium Crown since I'm headed for Dawnguard Volkahirism soon. :)
If you stick the Ritual Stone on the Aetherial Crown you can have unlimited uses a day by unequipping and reequiping after use.
Yup. It's still there, but I had to reverse the order since it's the oldest that ends up on the crown. I had to go back and get the Lady in order to get the Ritual on the crown. :) I don't know if I'll use it very often since I like my +70 regen -28% destruct circlet, but, hey, it's good to have on hand, eh?
There is a way to glitch equipping 2 circlets at the same time. It depends on what race you are. I know for sure that the vampire forms of Bretons, Dark Elves, Argonians, and Khajiits can do it. For Bretons you have to equip a Thieves Guild Hood and then the 2 circlets. The Hood should drop off right after. For the other 3 races, they have to equip the the Ancient Shrouded Cowl and then the 2 circlets. This all works if you're a vampire.

Although, this exploit is useless for you because you are going to be reequipping the Crown which will always make the other circlet drop off.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
If you stick the Ritual Stone on the Aetherial Crown you can have unlimited uses a day by unequipping and reequiping after use.
Yup. It's still there, but I had to reverse the order since it's the oldest that ends up on the crown. I had to go back and get the Lady in order to get the Ritual on the crown. :) I don't know if I'll use it very often since I like my +70 regen -28% destruct circlet, but, hey, it's good to have on hand, eh?
There is a way to glitch equipping 2 circlets at the same time. It depends on what race you are. I know for sure that the vampire forms of Bretons, Dark Elves, Argonians, and Khajiits can do it. For Bretons you have to equip a Thieves Guild Hood and then the 2 circlets. The Hood should drop off right after. For the other 3 races, they have to equip the the Ancient Shrouded Cowl and then the 2 circlets. This all works if you're a vampire.

Although, this exploit is useless for you because you are going to be reequipping the Crown which will always make the other circlet drop off.
I tend to use a circlet & a falmer helmet most of the time (when I'm not out in public). It works well for me. :) Interesting glitch. Unfortunately I never play any of those races: Bretons - too short and dumpy and can't make 'em look pretty; Dark Elves - just creep me out waaaaaayyyyy to much; Argo's & Khajit - I luv but can never RP them appropriately - to me it just doesn't make any sense that they would be welcomed with open arms when the natives of Skryim are such bigots in general. Oh well... Hmm... I wonder if an Assajj Ventrus build would be a dark elf? Could be...
 

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