Thrall Thread : Living with the dead

[Ward]

Been lurking for a while here, superb detailed information, best of any forums!

I have a question for all the veteran necromancers

My target is Ulfric Stormcloak

I'm finally going to Thrall that guy......permanently!

I know i must be no higher then level 34 to Thrall him.

I have a question (i think i know the answer) that needs verification.

If i Thrall Ulfric at LVL 34 then level up to a higher level and he dies can he be re-thralled again at this higher level? ( i think no)

I have a VERY tight planned character that will have everything i need (almost) by level 34.

If i decide to stop leveling at 34 i know that attributes will be frozen to that level as well as all skills (i can never change them) however skills can still be raised to 100 just by paying attention to the notification.

Would the game still treat me and all leveled items and enemies as lvl 34? even if i raised skills to 100 later on Without leveling up? MY guess is yes i would only be treated as lvl 34.

Thanks for some answers.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Been lurking for a while here, superb detailed information, best of any forums!

I have a question for all the veteran necromancers

My target is Ulfric Stormcloak

I'm finally going to Thrall that guy......permanently!

I know i must be no higher then level 34 to Thrall him.

I have a question (i think i know the answer) that needs verification.

If i Thrall Ulfric at LVL 34 then level up to a higher level and he dies can he be re-thralled again at this higher levle? ( i think no)

I have a VERY tight planned character that will have everything i need (almost) by level 34.

If i decide to stop leveling at 34 i know that attributes will be frozen to that level as well as all skills (i can never change them) however skills can still be raised to 100 just by paying attention to the notification.

Would the game still treat me and all leveled items and enemies as lvl 34? even if i raised skills to 100 later on Without leveling up? MY guess is yes i would only be treated as lvl 34.

Thanks for some answers.

The pleasure is ours.

He cannot be thralled past level 34 without the use of mods. I don't understand what you mean by "freezing" your skills and etc yet still leveling them to 100 and the notifications and all though...

 

[Ward]

The pleasure is ours.

He cannot be thralled past level 34 without the use of mods. I don't understand what you mean by "freezing" your skills and etc yet still leveling them to 100 and the notifications and all though...

thanks for the fast response Gidian. Let me rephrase, What i mean is i will choose to stop leveling beyond level 34. Meaning i will never open up my skills menu (arrow up)...ever. By never leveling up beyond 34 i ensure i can always raise Ulfric as a dead thrall , i think ill change his gender as well

I was just wondering if by staying at this level and having selected all my skill points, i will continue to raise other skills up to 100 without having to actually level up ( just by watching the notifications )

My question was would the game still treat me as being level 34?

Did that explain it better, sorry if its a little wonky on the wording but i am super tired right now.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

thanks for the fast response Gidian. Let me rephrase, What i mean is i will choose to stop leveling beyond level 34. Meaning i will never open up my skills menu (arrow up)...ever. By never leveling up beyond 34 i ensure i can always raise Ulfric as a dead thrall , i think ill change his gender as well

I was just wondering if by staying at this level and having selected all my skill points, i will continue to raise other skills up to 100 without having to actually level up ( just by watching the notifications )

My question was would the game still treat me as being level 34?

Did that explain it better, sorry if its a little wonky on the wording but i am super tired right now.

Yes, much better. Unfortunately idk. I've never tried before, but the idea crossed my mind from time to time. Try it out tomorrow, after you've had some sleep, and deliver the verdict. Someone else might be able to answer your question though. Sorry I couldn't help. Anyways, I've got to get off and get some shut eye now. Cya.

 

[Adam Warlock]

You can keep Ulfric as long as you don`t level up after 34 since his level is tied to your overall level but not your individual Skills level.
You can get to 100 in each skill but can`t make any of them Legendary.

And yes , those limited aspects of the game which have a higher minimum level to appear like Legendary Dragons , Ebony Warrior , etc. will not be available .

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

You can keep Ulfric as long as you don`t level up after 34 since his level is tied to your overall level but not your individual Skills level.
You can get to 100 in each skill but can`t make any of them Legendary.

And yes , those limited aspects of the game which have a higher minimum level to appear like Legendary Dragons , Ebony Warrior , etc. will not be available .

Never knew that before...

 

[The Phoenician]

I just unlocked the Dead Thrall spell on my lvl 43 mage. Am I to late to have any real fun with thralls

 

[Adam Warlock]

I just unlocked the Dead Thrall spell on my lvl 43 mage. Am I to late to have any real fun with thralls

Absolutely not too late to have a great time with the undead.
My character got DT even later than that !

Just don`t be obsessive about having every single NPC in the game as your thrall.
Lots and lots of thralls who cap at 40 and under to have fun with.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Absolutely not too late to have a great time with the undead.
My character got DT even later than that !

Just don`t be obsessive about having every single NPC in the game as your thrall.
Lots and lots of thralls who cap at 40 and under to have fun with.

In my case , I had to return to previously-visited locations to retrieve the permanent bodies of thralls like Orchendor , Umana , Sild , etc..
If you`ve done some quests like that already , your new minion is waiting there for you!

 

[The Phoenician]

In my case , I had to return to previously-visited locations to retrieve the permanent bodies of thralls like Orchendor , Umana , Sild , etc..
If you`ve done some quests like that already , your new minion is waiting there for you!

Cool thanks

Right now Im in the process of finding a better staff for Kornalus

 

[Adam Warlock]

Cool thanks

Right now Im in the process of finding a better staff for Kornalus

Try Fort Amol.

 

[Adam Warlock]

If you enjoy having powerful mages as your back-up , consider rolling with a level 34 Forsworn Ravager (Shaman) , popularly known as " Ice Queen".

One of the few mages to wear a full set of armor , they are incredibly powerful and loaded with perks and special spells.
Not many thralls will summons a Frost Atronarch on their own as these will

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Forsworn_Ravager#Forsworn_Ravager

Add Magicka+ enchants to headdress and gauntlets , health to armor , and whatever u like on boots.

Combat AI is similar to archers and other mages with backpedaling to remain at range if they have room.

Note that dagger should have frost or chaos enchant(preferably stalhrim) to take advantage of her Destruction augments , but in my experience weapon is seldom used unless they have been cornered.

Their Atromancy perk should also extend the time limit for Fire or Storm Atronachs they summons if you give them Scroll to do that.

They do moan and will respawn but when you want to leave them behind , you can remove their interchangeable gear and pick up another thrall at a later time to re-equip.

Found at many Forsworn lairs , there is one who regularly respawns at the Smithing station of Karthspire Camp.

 

[The Phoenician]

Im gonna have to try that. Right now I'm trying to find a good balance for my squad. Kornalus is pretty good w/o a staff I just needed him to not use Chain Lightening. I did pick up a bandit cheif to test out as a tank.

 

[Ward]

Gidian or Adam Warlock you guys have been helping people here for a while, again let me personally thank you for that. Let me ask you guys directly, are there any absolutely don't take your thralls into places? In other words kill them before going to these places or these quests?

i know The Statue to Meridia and Broken Oar Grotto are both places to get rid of your thralls before attempting them.

What other areas or places event should i avoid with a Dead Thrall?

I guess i am asking because if i ever want to go higher then lvl 34 and keep Ulfric as a thrall i better get specific quests out of the way so i wont loose Ulfric as a thrall.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Gidian or Adam Warlock you guys have been helping people here for a while, again let me personally thank you for that. Let me ask you guys directly, are there any absolutely don't take your thralls into places? In other words kill them before going to these places or these quests?

i know The Statue to Meridia and Broken Oar Grotto are both places to get rid of your thralls before attempting them.

What other areas or places event should i avoid with a Dead Thrall?

I guess i am asking because if i ever want to go higher then lvl 34 and keep Ulfric as a thrall i better get specific quests out of the way so i wont loose Ulfric as a thrall.

Good question.
There are a few places where thralls will not enter like the DB Sanctuary , the basement of Anise`s Cabin , Twilight Sepulcher , Valerica`s Study , Nightcaller Temple, Apochrypha ,etc. but in my experience , thralls were waiting upon exit and were not deactivated.
These may not cause trouble for you but I don`t know for certain on that.

Forced or voluntary conversion to a Werewolf or Vampire Lord form certainly to be avoided.
That would involve the Companion`s Main quests be partly completed and alraedy accepting Harkon`s Gift if joining vampire faction.
Ill Met By Moonlight quest ?

I didn`t try to keep a thrall active during the Rise in the East quest to Japhet`s Folly but I know thralls won`t go there.
Likewise with the trip to Sovngarde after capturing Ohdahving.
Perhaps another reader can provide insight.


My tips are:

1. Save often . Especially when entering a new site or quest where you may have concerns.
2. Add as much Health as you can to Ulfric`s clothes and don`t forget to heal him after batlles before moving on even if he is still standing. Give him good healing potions/scrolls though he may not always use them in time to avoid another death.
3. Absorb Health Enchants on weapons !
4. Provide your best improved heavy shield with health enchantment attached(plus Magic Resist if you have Extra Effect perk in Enchanting)

I figure you want to keep him for role-playing purposes because he really isn`t as useful a thrall as many other NPC who have lower level caps.
Practically no armor rating because his Heavy Armor skills are mismatched to his light armor bracers which can`t be tempered. Recommend giving him some Alteration Scrolls that may provide some Mage Armor protection during combat

His shout is fairly unique but really doesn`t do much damage.

 

[Adam Warlock]

^ Upon further thought , I may have to revise the above advice.

This is based on the fact that once you`ve passed Level 34 , you will no longer have access to Ulfric`s inventory to add additional items or recharge enchanted weapons.
Give him as many as you can of potions and scrolls while you have the opportunity.
Multiple copies of Magic Staffs also recommended as he will switch from one to another as charges run out.

Biggest problem is melee weaponry as my thralls won`t typically switch from their initial weapon to a back-up simply because the enchant charges have been exhausted.
May want to consider weapons that don`t lose their effects based on how long they are used.
Fully charged Ebony Blade comes to mind.
Also might use a Legendary(or otherwise improved) Dawnguard Rune Axe(higher physical dmg) but be aware it`s permanent sun damage has an area of effect that may cause hostility from undead friendlies.


The only "forever" enchants for a bow I`m aware of is the faster drawing speed of Zephyr or the ignore 50% armor on enhanced crossbow.

Of course , you could always use the Resto/alchemy loop described earlier in this thread to give him 5000 hp if your man-crush is that intense
lol

 

[Ward]

man-crush LOL to funny, more like his eternal Penance for his arrogance.

As always your insights are amazing Adam. I recently, like 2 days ago, finally completed my first play-through on the Stormcloaks side of the civil war. Everyone has their own opinions of the struggle, i despise the Thalmor, Maven Black Briar, and just the concept of outlawing Talos Worship and your own review of Likke in this thread as a really good Dead Thrall. I thought that would be enough for me to side with the Stormcloaks. Short of it was It wasn't enough. The speeches given by Likke and Tulius at the end made me realize how wrong Ulfric really was is.

The guy is an SOB through and through.

I wish I could of been the leader and assembled all the Stormcloaks and covertly allied with the Imperial army, or just been given a nod by General Tulius to secretly amass an army, maybe bolstered by the Argonians and take the fight to the Thalmor. Ulfric betrayed the Grey Beards, was manipulated by the Thalmor to weaken the Empire for invasion, and has the "chosen people" disease thinking Skyrim is for the Nords exclusively.


The only honor i will give him is to give him a fast dispatch to Sovngarde.

Did i mention i don't like Ulfric?

I must admit my current play-though is extremely difficult as i can't level any armor skills and still max out by skill trees for level 34, so i had to sacrifice

using normal rules with a minimum of exploits I'll explain below;

I WILL use both

Necromage Synergies and the use the Flamer/Penntius Occulus/Jagged Crown oversights since all races can use these two features and they were not officially removed by Bethesda.

I draw the line at


Restoration alchemy glitch
Argonian, Khajit multiple headgear


I absolutely REFUSE to use those glitches/cheats.


Anyways with these two caveats and since you have shared your considerable knowledge I'll share what i have been doing.

Using just Normal Alchemy and Enchanting Skills skills (see build below)
and the fantastic Dragonborn bonuses including

Ahzidal's Genius ability and

The Black Book The Sallow Regent
Seeker of Might
Seeker of Sorcery
Seeker of Shadows

i have been able to squeeze out

+60% Enchant Potions
+239% Smithing Potions

these make for devastating items

So yes i plan to give Ulfric a

+106 Fortify Health
+33% Magic Resist
Dragonbone Shield (i just couldn't afford to get to Deadric without sacrificing to many other skills, i will still hit the armor cap however and far surpass it with the above potions without any points into light or heavy armor skills)

oops i just realized with this build i can't upgrade Stalrhim items, oh well ill probably give Ulfric a one handed Dragonbone Sword with Chaos Damage and Absorb Health for major help. Since ill be using Azuras Black Star ill just conjure familiar after every fight (since that will bring him back to full health) and take his weapon and recharge it if needed.

​

Anyways i really spent some time trying to tweak my level 34 build and make it have only the ESSENTIALS i deem necessary, but i an truly humbled by your knowledge of Dead Thrall Adam so i greatly value your opinions.

Check out my build here and please critique them;

http://www.ign.com/builds/the-elder...000000000005000000000000000000000000000510001

or here (this site for me doesn't always work to well);

http://skyrimcalculator.com/#289259

That is the best i can do with a lvl 34 build. You'll notice i can only have 1 Dead Thrall and yes i plan on Leveling Conjuration to 100 after i hit and STOP at lvl 34 with no Skill points in Conjuration.

It's been very hard tweaking this build and even harder playing it.

Trying to lvl Enchant without using Conjuration or not purchasing or selling items to avoid level speech is a real trick.

Any advice on my lvl 34 build is appreciated and/or a pat on the back accepted gladly

 

[Adam Warlock]

Re: build
Seems to me that your Enchanting strength and the Extra Effect perk should make up for most of the shortfalls from not leveling.
possible up to 400+ health added if you carry a shield
it will be easy to make a collection of equipment to be able to cast any spells you want for free

Idk what the #s are on your Fortify Alchemy crafting gear but I assume the potions to augment your attacks/attributes are incredibly powerful.
There`s not much in the perk trees that can`t be made up for with good potions.
and as you say , magic resistance is no problem.

You might consider adding Fortify Heavy Armor to Ulfric`s gauntlets(or clothes) since at lvl 34 he may not have as high a Skill level there as he would at his capped level 50.

Good build.
Lean and Mean.

I don`t forsee any huge problems for you in battles since the world around you is frozen at level 34 just like Ulfric.
Some of the special bosses may remain tough to defeat at first but as your individual combat/magic skills rise fights should become easier not harder.

Get Twin Souls and drop the last 1h augment(#5) perk.
That #2 thrall , atronarch , or dremora lord may be the one who pulls Ulfric`s ass out of the fire sometime.
Twin souls just makes the game so much more fun to watch and allows you to easily transport any other thralls you have while ulfric`s still with you
The loss of 20% in your melee attacks can be readily replaced by equipment enchant(s) and/or potions.


Think of it this way.
Get Ulfric and then when you`ve finished the Main quest , I`ll tell you how to get ELENWEN too and you can pair them up !

If you really want to torture your undead buddy , that is..

 

[Ward]

Thanks for the critique Adam, pairing Ulfric and ELENWEN is beyond hilarious!!! I think (from reading your previous post) you can get her after the optional Season Unending quest is that right?

I'm going to play around with the build, but to get twin souls like you said i had to dump all point except 1 in two handed. I'm playing on Legendary Setting with Dragon Combat Overhaul and Deadly Dragons on Insane Setting and i REALLY need to have ridiculous amounts of damage to even get a dent into Dragons on these settings. I actually don't want to keep Thralls for damage, and like you said i want to RolePlay Ulfric penance more then anything

but that Elenwen idea is sooooo flippin tempting

The Enchants on Followers and Thralls are sort of limiting, will Ulfric equip any rings or amulets i enchant and place on him? Or is it only what he is currently wearing when i send him to Sovngarde that can be equipped?

I forgot are you playing on Legendary difficulty and are you on the PC with any mods?

Thanks again for all the info.

 

[JayW]

Adams covered most everything but I thought a couple more points might help.

As a quick critique of your build I would probably avoid allocating perks to smithing entirely. Dragonbone weapons are cool but they take up a lot of levels you could probably better use elsewhere. From your choice of the Light armour branch I assume you prefer light armour. You can obtain any light armour you want in the course of wandering Skyrim. You can level smithing after you've reached 34 and only have to do without dragonbone weapons.

If you need to keep your level low while hitting your desired level 34 build (no armour levelling) and without using the fortify restoration glitch then there is another exploit you might consider using. Combining a staff of paralysis with the machine gun punch trick will let you deal crazy damage to most low level enemies and if you have the gloves of the pugilist enchant then you can take out pretty much any enemy unarmed with no trouble. This is great for moulding a level 34 build choosing only the perks you want without having extraneous skills.

Although Stahrim is kept from you in a 34 build, if you are sneaky then you can still get a stahlrim axe without any other stahlrim turning up - your companion should have one from the Dragonborn quest (just swap with her). Ebony weapons can also be found in a couple of fixed locations as well (including at least one two handed weapon stuck in ice next to a half frozen mammoth if two handed are your preference).

It may be an idea to ditch the alteration tree points you seem to have focussed on for defence and opt for Conjuration instead. Once you have the sigil stone then you can obtain daedric weapons without any smithing or armour skill. With the right enchantments you can probably hit the damage resistance level cap without having to add perks to armour. (only put on the armour once you've hit level 34 to allow progress in other skill trees you want the perks from then never level up again).

I note you have no points allocated to Conjuration. I take it you are using scrolls to keep Ulfric as a dead thrall which is a viable and clever option. It means you can only keep one dead thrall but Ulfric has a tendency to aggravate any second thralls you might keep through his shouts. If you have the latest patch then duplicating the scrolls might be difficult though - so use sparingly or only thrall Ulfric after you hit the 34 cap.

Don't forget to nab necromatic healing from the Dawnguard DLC. If you aren't going down the Fortify Restoration Loop route then this will probably be your new favourite spell. Also remember to pick up the Aetherial Crown as the extra stone powers can make life a lot easier in a limited skill levelling build.

If you don't care much for other skills then most of the above is pretty useless. I tend to use these tricks to allow me to get Dead thrall Ulfric and Vyrthur / the Traveler without having to do forego other skill tree perks I enjoy. There is very little you need do without at level 34 - its the necromancer's sweet spot.