PC Skyrim creators should be Blackballed from making games

[Dark Phoenox]

Well. You complain that the game is not like Oblivion or Morrowind.
Have you noticed that it has gone like 200 years since Oblivion Crisis?
I wasn't expecting the game to be like Oblivion or Morrowind and I have to say that Oblivion does not look like Morrowind at all. My opinion is that you are comparing 1 game (skyrim) to 2 other games that are totally unlike. I can't se the logic in that. And you talk about the Horses are better in Oblivion? Do we have to take up a picture of how the "Oblivion" horses Moved and JUMPED? That I call unrealistic.
But I just really fell sorry for you because you don't adore Skyrim as the rest of the 99.8% people playing it.

It's not just the things I can compare to Morrowind and Oblivion. It's not that I want Skyrim to be clones of those, but as every Eldar Scrolls built in complexity on every other game Skyrim did the oppisite. They took shortcuts to make doing things easier, quicker. From leveling up to crafting armor and weapons, enchanting etc. they dumbed the series down in this respect. They made, " An Xbox/Console game" because you cannot have that type of complexity in a console game, only one designed for PC. I think that was a bad move. i know they did it because x-box/comsole sales are up, and this released just before xmas. They did it for the money, when instead, they could have made a much better, deeper game.

 

[PunWisp]

FYi there are 350 locations, you discovered them all?

 

[Onyx]

I will say that I do not personally agree with most of the OP's points but that does not make what they are saying invalid, simply an opinion they are looking to share. Could the original post (Waaaaaaaaaay back) have been constructed better? Imo yes, but I think the idea is clear to all.

Many of the changes that Skyrim has made from the previous titles are the issue as I understand them.
Some of the main ones I see are
- No Durability on Weapons are Armor: I personally like this, lets me play more than worry about repairing. Can see how some people might not like this change though. I think the resoning is to move more towards action (not just violence but generally exploring, speaking, fighting etc) and taking away some of the more "mundane" tasks.

- Horses - It is mentioned they look more realistic in Oblivion...I have to say I disagree here completely, I think the horses in Oblivion looks pretty weird and the movements very stiff, especially compared to something like Red Dead Redemption that had great horse graphics and I personally think Skyrim's horses look better. Agree with the lack of first person view though...cannot explain that one.

- Forts - I cannot really comments because I did not play enough of oblivion to see many of the forts compared to the ones I see in Skyrim but to me the ones I tried in Oblivion and the ones I played in skyrim seem like...forts...not sure what is wrong with them? What details would you like to see brought back?

- Guilds - While I really enjoyed the Dark Brotherhood quests line and found the companion one enjoyable I think I see your point here as even when you finish you are still stuck doing "menial" radiant tasks like killing beasts in people's basements or assassinating X after speaking to Y. Cannot compare to Oblivion, but would be nice to feel more like the leader (perhaps assigning jobs/assignments to underlinds instead of having them jsut stand around and you having to do all by yourself). Could be something Bethesda could have a look at.

General Leveling System - Not sure if this was part of the OP, but something I want to comment on. I LOVE the change to this and is the reason I am still enjoying Skyrim (only game I played since it came out) and the reason why I stopped playing Morrowind/Oblivion after a few days. In the previous titles I just did not have fun as I was constantly having a brain hemorage making sure I was NOT leveling up my Primary Skills (which where not my primary skills, just ones that where easier to level) until I have lvled my secondary skills by x amount. I mean I want to swing a damn sword, but oh cannot do that, have to swing a blunt weapon or my fists at some point as well to get the damn Str modifier.....blah. Sorry, mini rant over, but the point is, for me, Skyrim has taken away all the things that stopped me having fun in the last games and instead seems to focus on allow you, the player to have fun without worrying about being penalised later because of poor leveling.

So to sum up from my perspective, Skyrim is more fun FOR ME because it focus more on allow me to do the things I want instead of constantly having to do something else to make sure I am not gimped somewhere along the line.

Anyways, my longer than expected rambling imput here.

 

[hexperiment]

I'm not taking the game way to seriously. Sometimes the devs design the game to be super realistic. I like that. I simply found in that area Oblivion and Morrowind did a better job than Skyrim, and I miss that.

I do not have to prove i'm not a troll to anyone. I stand by my post, I know who's trolling in my thread and it's not me. I don't care if you folks take offense to my harsh language of the game. Those are my valid opinions. If some folks are too sensitive for such mild negative language that are my own opinions, they do not have to reply to my thread.

I find my proposition very reasonable. Don't be surprised that people are not happy with your post. There is a difference between good opinion and bad opinion. Your opinion is not bad because you use provocative words such as pee-on and 8 year olds, though such usage definitely does not help your case. Your opinion is bad (or at least how you presented it) because you criticize the game without much credentials. You are not giving any reason nor explanation why your opinion of the game is quite negative. It sounds like you were merely being stubborn and hateful of the game without much reason (since you have provided none) and nothing will convince you otherwise (since your original post leaves very little room for discussion). That's why it doesn't sound like a valid opinion and more like a troll. There is little to be discussed from your original post so, like I said, it's hard to take it seriously for discussion. You keep saying Oblivion and Morrowind did better job than Skyrim but I have yet to see any reason as to why you think that.
Even after my proposition, I fail to see your willingness to have a decent argument. You are posting on this thread, still without much valid argument. To be fair, you are defending yourself so you are not even much opportunity to make some after the original post but such energy would be better utilized abandoning this thread and discuss your ideas on some other thread where there are already good discussions. As I stated, this thread is bad apple. The only thing that will come from here is drama and frustration. In short, this thread is no longer a decent environment to seek good talk.
I am giving you a benefit of the doubt that you are indeed not trying to troll us. You claim that you are not a troll but even your defense is not really helping your case. Nothing decent will come from this thread so the more you post on this thread, the more you come off as a troll. It's simple since all the negativity in this thread is really going towards you. People are not in the mood for discussion in this thread and so should you. I recommend you again that you go to other thread of criticism. Here, I'll help you find them.
Top 5 HATED things about this game!

Major flaws that constantly bother you

Now, if you don't accept this proposition one more time and continue to accuse 'us' of not being accepting, incapable of handling offensive language and yadda yadda yadda, I'll just end my troll feeding contribution here. I didn't mean to make it sound like a threat because it isn't. I'm saying the only reasonable move is to stop with all this trouble and move on. There is no point in dwelling on this thread longer. I hope you find a better time discussing your criticism somewhere else on this forum.

 

[BlackRat]

Your logic is flawed.

Those things you felt were so wonderful in Oblivion and Morrowind and are "missing from Skyrim, WERE in the console versions of both MW and Oblivion... therefore the consoles were quite capable of handling the *cough* complexity of both games. I am confused by your statement.

I found Oblivion to be a far worse game than either MW or Skyrim. Terrible voice acting, terrible animations, disgustingly poor AI, nauseatingly repetitive level design, with the exact same cavern, exact same room layout, exact same door placement... time and time and time again. Armours and weapons look ridiculously cartoony, and the Horse animation you seem to have loved? I can't find words for it... it was terrible. Character models were awful... the Argonians looked as though they were stolen from a child's colouring book and the Khajiit looked like attendees at a Thundercats Cosplay convention. The orcs? Like Games Workshop art class rejects. Some of the quests were ridiculous... the Arena questline was terrible... the main questline was incredibly dull.

MW's "depth" was smoke and mirrors. Yes, there were a TON of guilds and houses and quests... but all scattered throughout and incredibly sparsely populated world. One of the main quests asked you to take a MONTH of gametime to go "do something else". Poor combat. A very simple main quest. I loved Morrowind... probably played it for about 300 hours all said and done, but it was deeply flawed in many ways.

*MINOR SPOILERS*

Skyrim. Skyrim has it's issues. I do think that the Thieves Guild questline was a bit lame... at least the "return the guild to glory" quests... very repetitive. The DB however... the quest was good. Nazir gives you some low level jobs, certainly... but none of those were given to him by the nightmother. If you recall... the main quest was given to you by the nightmother. The Nightmother sends you to take care of Astrid. The nightmother transmits the dark ritual to you, that's what she does, that is your job as listener. Someone performs it, she tells you, you go do the job. So yes, you do function as the Listener.

As for oversimplification? What I have found is that I focus more on playing Skyrim and less on constantly checking my stats. In the previous games, certain stats were just constantly climbing numbers... athletics, agility, strength, use a skill, the stat climbs. Eventually topping out. Same goes for skills. use it, it rises. In Skyrim at least, you can tailor your character as you wish... you have to "practice" a skill to get better, so you can buy your perks. Your perks allow you to customize your character as you see fit.

I could go on, but I have to respectfully disagree with your argument that the game has been oversimplified. I find it to be quite the opposite. With this game, Bethesda has come closer to finally realizing their objective of "play YOUR game". They have a ways to go in some respects, but they are far closer with this one than in others.

But, your argument that consoles can't handle the complexity has been proven false, as your two examples were handled quite well by consoles.

Edit to add:
One f the greatest flaws of both MW and Oblvion were summed up in how I created my characters. It made more sense for me to create my characters such that the skills I wished to use were all "minor" skills, and the skills I didn't want to use as much, I made my "Major" skills. The levelling in both games was mind blowingly retarded, and to me, pretty much game destroying.. As was stated by a previous poster, in Skyrim, I use the skills I use, and they get better. The end.

 

[Towls]

Your opinion is bad but Bethesda made an outstanding game and shouldn't be blackballed because of one person who doesn't like it, here's a tip... Sell it and hope for IV to be similar to oblivion.

 

[Dark Phoenox]

I gave plenty of good examples about where I think this game went wrong.. if you guys are not seeing it, then re-read my posts and keep your eyes and ears open this time.

I'll try again with the quest line problem for example. In Morrowind and Oblivion you had factions/quilds you had to do quests for. There were two type of quests, main quest for the faction or guild and sub quests. You HAD to do the sub quests before you could do and finish all of the main quests for that guild or faction. In Skyrim, you could only do the guild/faction main quest line and never HAVE TO DO the sub quests. ( They should not have let you complete the main quests for the guild or faction untill all subquests were done) This coupled with the fact that at the end of the guild/faction main quests they do not give you perks (like sharing in the spoils you could come back to and get) you really have no good incentive to go back and finish all those sub quests. The game does not compel you to play through it (or it's guild/faction quests) in it's entirety like this. This was a major change in the elder scrolls games and one I think was a bad decision on the devs part.

As each Elder Scrolls game progressed in gameplay complexity, I expected Skyrim to do the same or at least not cut out so much complexity that made the other games in the series so good.

I always stated BlackRat, that it was my belief that they took these things out because the consold didn't have as much power as the PC. I see your point and can concede that i may be wrong however, were that i were right because otherwise it seems to me the devs just didn't care enough about making this game as good as the others. If this cannot be blamed on the consoles, then it was laziness on the devs part or some other force caused them to redesign what was known to work so well. Sure as a standalone, Skyrim might be a fine game, but to me, it's no Elder scrolls game.

 

[brandon]

how did this thread get 4 pages. ill admit i love to argue as much as the next person but for real? the dude has his opinion let him hate the game.

 

[tha420Moose]

Sure you have the Night Mother quests that never end, but as Listener in Skyrim unlike Oblivion you did not do the job of Listener. Nazir did that job instead, always telling you The Listener what jobs to do. This was backward of how it played out in Oblivion. Once you were The Listener, you actually got to take the contracts from The Night Mother and pass them to othgers. After all main dark brotherhood quests were done, you got to still take part in the spoils, as with every other guild. They aren't doing that in Skyrim. There is no incentive to return to any of the guilds after all main quests are done. I think this was a bad decision of the devs. I know they left all these goody extras out because the console platform could not handle as much stuff as the PC platform. Rather, that is my belief.

i will agree with you that in skyrim, as the listener, you do not do what a listener should do from what we learned from oblivion. BUT you have to realize is that this is not the same Dark Brotherhood. In oblivion the listener was known to talk to the night mother and give out contracts. In the new DB, the night mother chooses you to do her work. In short, they are very different and you have to understand the dynamics of the time period/whats going on. But let me get this straight, you'd rather just talk to people and get some gold rather than having an infinite amount of assassination contracts? because i remember in oblivion thinking "man it would be sweet to be able to do more contracts" even if they are meaningless.

 

[Suleku]

lol @ This thread...

 

[brandon]

i will agree with you that in skyrim, as the listener, you do not do what a listener should do from what we learned from oblivion. BUT you have to realize is that this is not the same Dark Brotherhood. In oblivion the listener was known to talk to the night mother and give out contracts. In the new DB, the night mother chooses you to do her work. In short, they are very different and you have to understand the dynamics of the time period/whats going on. But let me get this straight, you'd rather just talk to people and get some gold rather than having an infinite amount of assassination contracts? because i remember in oblivion thinking "man it would be sweet to be able to do more contracts" even if they are meaningless.

also you have to remember this branch of the db is the last branch in all of tamriel. the guild hadnt heard anything from the night mother in yrs. there is no listener they have to wait to hear rumors of people trying to contact the night mother. hence how you start the quest. the db was trying to keep the guild alive and running. as a leader your trying to bring the guild together to be able to start back up and get more work. so you have to get your hands dirty. that being said i would like to be able to train the new recruits so they can start doing jobs too. and the contracts you get from nazir are the contracts he hears about not the night mother. all in all it all fits with the story and history of this peice of the db

 

[ill wil]

its his opinion guys, although I don't like fact that theres no fist person for horses or werewolves.

Wearwolves are in the game...

 

[Dark Phoenox]

I find my proposition very reasonable. Don't be surprised that people are not happy with your post. There is a difference between good opinion and bad opinion. Your opinion is not bad because you use provocative words such as pee-on and 8 year olds, though such usage definitely does not help your case. Your opinion is bad (or at least how you presented it) because you criticize the game without much credentials. You are not giving any reason nor explanation why your opinion of the game is quite negative. It sounds like you were merely being stubborn and hateful of the game without much reason (since you have provided none) and nothing will convince you otherwise (since your original post leaves very little room for discussion). That's why it doesn't sound like a valid opinion and more like a troll. There is little to be discussed from your original post so, like I said, it's hard to take it seriously for discussion. You keep saying Oblivion and Morrowind did better job than Skyrim but I have yet to see any reason as to why you think that.
Even after my proposition, I fail to see your willingness to have a decent argument. You are posting on this thread, still without much valid argument. To be fair, you are defending yourself so you are not even much opportunity to make some after the original post but such energy would be better utilized abandoning this thread and discuss your ideas on some other thread where there are already good discussions. As I stated, this thread is bad apple. The only thing that will come from here is drama and frustration. In short, this thread is no longer a decent environment to seek good talk.
I am giving you a benefit of the doubt that you are indeed not trying to troll us. You claim that you are not a troll but even your defense is not really helping your case. Nothing decent will come from this thread so the more you post on this thread, the more you come off as a troll. It's simple since all the negativity in this thread is really going towards you. People are not in the mood for discussion in this thread and so should you. I recommend you again that you go to other thread of criticism. Here, I'll help you find them.
Top 5 HATED things about this game!

Major flaws that constantly bother you

Now, if you don't accept this proposition one more time and continue to accuse 'us' of not being accepting, incapable of handling offensive language and yadda yadda yadda, I'll just end my troll feeding contribution here. I didn't mean to make it sound like a threat because it isn't. I'm saying the only reasonable move is to stop with all this trouble and move on. There is no point in dwelling on this thread longer. I hope you find a better time discussing your criticism somewhere else on this forum.

There is no reason for me to go to other threads and post. I made this thread to share my opinions. I will post in this thread. Not posting in other threads does not make me a troll. If you don't like it, I invite you not to read my threads. I didn't come here to fight with anyone, I came to tell of my views on the game. I will do so in the this thread for that purpose. No need to go elsewhere. If I went elsewhere I would be quilty of cross posting.

You guys really need to study the definition of internet troll because you are trying to apply to me a term that does not apply.

 

[BlackRat]

"They should not have let you complete the main quests for the guild or faction untill all subquests were done) This coupled with the fact that at the end of the guild/faction main quests they do not give you perks (like sharing in the spoils you could come back to and get) you really have no good incentive to go back and finish all those sub quests"

First, I consider "story" and "gameplay" to be better incentives than imaginary gold coins. A quest gives me something to do in my (real life) spare time... collecting coins for nothing gives me... umm... nothing.

Second, I beg to differ. I currenty have 4 half-naked people hanging from the walls in the sanctuary, coughing up their hidden life savings whenever I give 'em the gears. I have a corpse in a coffin giving me new quests. I have an alchemy garden for hard to find ingredients. I have a merchant in the Thieves Guild with 4000 septims for buying my loot, plus 4 other merchants for a grand total of about 10,000 septims worth of buying power. How did I get the buying power? By finishing the subquests.

I am compelled to finish, because I enjoy the game. Not because I want imaginary spoils.

You don't like it, I get it...and your reasons are your own. But the things you list as "strengths", are actually what many consider flaws. It's a sandbox game... it's not meant to club you over the head and "force" you to do anything. Do what you want to do.

If i had to score the last three TES games out of ten? (not gonna bother scoring Arena or Daggerfall... though I did play them. Yeah... I'm way older than you. WAY older)

At the time I played them?
MW: 9.5
Oblivion: 8
Skyrim: 9.5

After time has passed?
MW: 8 (about 300 hours)
Oblivion: 7 (about 250 hours.. the ONLY quest left unfinished was the main quest... in Xbox terms... that's also the only "achievement" I didn't get)
I've got about 100 hours into Skyrim so far... and it's still a 9.5. The ".5" is due to some coninuity flaws and minor issues.

 

[Gandalf The Boss]

Wearwolves are in the game...

Read that again... He said there is no FIRST PERSON for Werewolfs and Horses.

 

[ill wil]

Read that again... He said there is no FIRST PERSON for Werewolfs and Horses.

ohhhhhhhhhhhh...lol

 

[Rena]

Umm yeah you're on a site full of Skyrim freaks that not only discuss the game, and yes also talk about flaws (proof in one of my threads) but greatly admire it. If you come to this forum and spew such blasphemy you will get burned for it. Plain and simple. And what I love about the Elder Scrolls is that EACH game is a masterpiece in its way. Does Skyrim have flaws? Yes. Could it have been better? Yes. I can see these things but I didn't put Skyrim up on a pedestal until I played it. I didn’t fill my head with a bunch of grand (or in your case dull) expectations. I can't compare it to Oblivion because it's in a different time, so things have changed in the government and society. And it's in a whole new country so I can't compare the places. The forts and ruins were built by different people. You have to look at it as a reality and not what Bethesda did differently. You said you wanted Skyrim to be clones of Oblivion and Morrowind. Everything about the characterization has improved. And also with environment/cities/ruins: It'd be very boring if everything was cloned. Why bother buying the new at all then? If they're all going to be the same I might as well stick just to Morrowind, right?
And you don't make threads and invite people to post things; we are free to comment on what we want to. You can see that in my thread I calmly talk about what’s bothersome even though those things are really annoying to me. If you come and completely piss all over the game and its creators, people are going to snap at you. What did you expect? This, right? Did you get enough attention or should we continue?
Skyrim is worthy of our praise and obsession whether you're too thick to understand why or not.
Yes, that was a jab but after all this I believe a well deserved jab. To quote you, Mr. Phoenox.

 

[Rena]

.....I think I fit in well here

 

[Rena]

Horses were way better in Oblivion, they looked and moved more realistic than Skyrim.Not to mention the fact you cannot ride in first person what a stupid move that was on the devs part. No realism at all. The horses move like cartoon characters.

No they don't! Oblivion was the cartoon-ish game and these horses look the way they do because they're mountian horses. Thicker and hairier and the horses in Oblivion couldnt run! It was lame! Oblivion's horses were HORRIBLE. They should've made them like Red Dead Redemption's, Gun's, or Assassin's Creed II's horses.

 

[Towls]

Mmm this thread will last forever... hmm Skyrim is epic... Oblivion is epic... Morrowind is epic... BETHESDA IS EPPPPPIIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCc