Reading the White-Gold Concordat, I think Ulfric is right

[Dagmar]

1. Ulfric Stromcloak stepped up to defend his people from a strait up invasion from the thalmor.

This is a transparent and laughable fabrication based on ridiculous hyperbole. There is no Thalmor invasion of Skyrim. There's a small contingent of the Justiciars stationed there to enforce the White Gold Concordat and the ambassador emissaries of the Aldmeri Dominion.

2. Ulfric Stormcloak is fighting "one" enemy, the only reason he's also fighting the imperials is cuz the cowards are allied with the enemy he's fighting

Do you even understand what a civil war is? Ulfric is waging war on his fellow Nords. The overwhelming majority of the people he is killing are Imperial Legionnaires largely constituted out of the indigenous Nords of Skyrim and Nord veterans as well as the Nord civilians that support the Empire. Even if he wiped out every last Justiciar in Skyrim the impact on the Aldmeri Dominion in terms of manpower would be minimal compared to the devastation he's causing to his countrymen.

3. The imperial legion has banned talos worship "the equivalent of christianity in real life" because the thalmor want none of it, one of the "main" reasons Ulfric is at war with them in the first place.

The last time I checked Christianity was a monotheistic religion. Worship of Talos is nothing like Christianity. If you said this to some evangelicals they would accuse you of being anti-Christian, a heretic, and a blasphemer.

4. Do you even proof read this bullpl*** before u post it?

Hello Pot. You're arguably the dead last person on this entire forum who should be criticizing anyone for lack of proofreading.

 

[HappyFaceClown]

1. Ulfric Stromcloak stepped up to defend his people from a strait up invasion from the thalmor.

No he didn't, lol, he stepped up because they wanted an outright ban on Talos. He did it strictly on principle as well because the Empire very, very, loosely enforced it.

2. Ulfric Stormcloak is fighting "one" enemy, the only reason he's also fighting the imperials is cuz the cowards are allied with the enemy he's fighting.

1+1 = 2. Again, the Empire isn't allied with the Thalmor. Empire is a complete separate entity than the Thalmor. It's been said by Empire characters that The Thalmor are certainly not friends, the treaty is only means to an end.

3. The imperial legion has banned talos worship "the equivalent of christianity in real life" because the thalmor want none of it, one of the "main" reasons Ulfric is at war with them in the first place.

They haven't banned it, they enforce a ban. However, the results being the same they loosely enforce it. Ulfric has put Skyrim and its people in a very, very vulnerable position because of the Talos ban. It becomes clear he's starting his Stormcloak crusade for more than the Talos' ban, however.

4. Do you even proof read this bullpl*** before u post it? lmao

From your petty and childish insults to the spelling of Jarl like Yarl, I could ask you the same thing.

Anyways, yea. Sounds a LOT like William Wallace to me. -_-

Go and watch that movie again, better yet, go and research about William Wallace.

Who cares for fuks sake? No matter how many times i prove u guys wrong on here your still going to give me the same lame excuses, as i said in an earlier post its all how u choose to look at it, its a game after all and if we're honest with ourselves we'll admit that there's evil deeds done on both sides, doesn't mean your opinion is any better than mine so give it a rest please! And dude i've seen Braveheart so many times i can practically quote the movie start to finish which is why i said the character reminds me of William Wallace, perhaps u should take your own advice.
Oh and btw as for my spelling, i wasn't born in america i moved here, English is a second language to me so i'm sorry if i make a few typos now an then, no need to be a grammar nazi.

 

[Crooksin]

Who cares for fuks sake? No matter how many times i prove u guys wrong on here your still going to give me the same lame excuses, as i said in an earlier post its all how u choose to look at it, its a game after all and if we're honest with ourselves we'll admit that there's evil deeds done on both sides, doesn't mean your opinion is any better than mine so give it a rest please!

This sounds like a very different HappyFaceClown that was insulting and throwing his opinion at people on page one, I wonder what happened.

And dude i've seen Braveheart so many times i can practically quote the movie start to finish which is why i said the character reminds me of William Wallace, perhaps u should take your own advice.

You can probably quote it but you clearly don't understand it, like a parrot mimicking its owners.

Oh and btw as for my spelling, i wasn't born in america i moved here, English is a second language to me so i'm sorry if i make a few typos now an then, no need to be a grammar nazi.

I never gave two plopss about your spelling or grammar (I don't care as long as I can at least understand your point) until you told me I should proof read my own posts.

 

[HappyFaceClown]

Who cares for fuks sake? No matter how many times i prove u guys wrong on here your still going to give me the same lame excuses, as i said in an earlier post its all how u choose to look at it, its a game after all and if we're honest with ourselves we'll admit that there's evil deeds done on both sides, doesn't mean your opinion is any better than mine so give it a rest please!

This sounds like a very different HappyFaceClown that was insulting and throwing his opinion at people on page one, I wonder what happened.

And dude i've seen Braveheart so many times i can practically quote the movie start to finish which is why i said the character reminds me of William Wallace, perhaps u should take your own advice.

You can probably quote it but you clearly don't understand it, like a parrot mimicking its owners.

Oh and btw as for my spelling, i wasn't born in america i moved here, English is a second language to me so i'm sorry if i make a few typos now an then, no need to be a grammar nazi.

I never gave two pl***s about your spelling or grammar (I don't care as long as I can at least understand your point) until you told me I should proof read my own posts.

Omg u guys are giving me a headache, When did i ever insult anyone? You obviously have me mixed up with "Dagmar" cuz he/she is the only person who has posted any direct insults on this thread so far, "granted they were all to me but still" scroll up and read bro! If your refering to the pic i posted to Drunken it was a joke dude!! I was just playin with him, Lighten the fuk up!! As for forcing opinions on people, i really hope your just joking with that one cuz one of the favorite past times of imperial fanboys i've observed since i joined these forums is labeling anyone who admits they like Ulfric Stormcloak on here a racist, if thats not forcing an opinion on someone i don't know what is, so that would make u like the biggest hypocrite ever. Take me for example, u guys are bloody loving this gang bashing of me, and its ALL cuz i have a different opinion on the videogame then yall do! In others words *Your own actions are proving me right on that one!!*
Crooksin, i like u bro i really do, cuz unlike drunkard or dag i can actually have an intelligent conversation and debate with you without getting bombarded with insults after every comment so instead of continuing this flame fest how about we just agree to disagree? Nobody ever wins arguments of this topic on here which is why i mostly stay out of it, wish to fuk i had done so this time, i should have known better and thats my fault, lesson learned.

 

[DrunkenMage]

1. Ulfric Stromcloak stepped up to defend his people from a strait up invasion from the thalmor.
2. Ulfric Stormcloak is fighting "one" enemy, the only reason he's also fighting the imperials is cuz the cowards are allied with the enemy he's fighting.
3. The imperial legion has banned talos worship "the equivalent of christianity in real life" because the thalmor want none of it, one of the "main" reasons Ulfric is at war with them in the first place.
4. Do you even proof read this bullpl*** before u post it? lmao
Anyways, yea. Sounds a LOT like William Wallace to me. -_-

Being half Scottish myself, I find your analogy between William Wallace and Ulfric Stormcloak to be the dumbest thing I have ever read.

The worship of Talos is nothing like Christianity. You also forget the Eight/Nine Divines were the creation of the Empire, many consider them imposter gods. The Eight Divines were created during the First Empire, worship of Talos came around during the Third Empire.

Unless you somehow got it into your mind that Christianity has the worship of a Military leader many years after the creation of said religion. Talos isn't Jesus. I don't understand why those who consider themselves religious try to make an analogy between Christianity and Talos.

 

[HappyFaceClown]

1. Ulfric Stromcloak stepped up to defend his people from a strait up invasion from the thalmor.
2. Ulfric Stormcloak is fighting "one" enemy, the only reason he's also fighting the imperials is cuz the cowards are allied with the enemy he's fighting.
3. The imperial legion has banned talos worship "the equivalent of christianity in real life" because the thalmor want none of it, one of the "main" reasons Ulfric is at war with them in the first place.
4. Do you even proof read this bullpl*** before u post it? lmao
Anyways, yea. Sounds a LOT like William Wallace to me. -_-

Being half Scottish myself, I find your analogy between William Wallace and Ulfric Stormcloak to be the dumbest thing I have ever read.

The worship of Talos is nothing like Christianity. You also forget the Eight/Nine Divines were the creation of the Empire, many consider them imposter gods. The Eight Divines were created during the First Empire, worship of Talos came around during the Third Empire.

Unless you somehow got it into your mind that Christianity has the worship of a Military leader many years after the creation of said religion. Talos isn't Jesus. I don't understand why those who consider themselves religious try to make an analogy between Christianity and Talos.

I'd try explaining it to u man, but there are some things certain people just can't comprehend.

 

[Falx Carius]

1. Ulfric Stromcloak stepped up to defend his people from a strait up invasion from the thalmor.
2. Ulfric Stormcloak is fighting "one" enemy, the only reason he's also fighting the imperials is cuz the cowards are allied with the enemy he's fighting.
3. The imperial legion has banned talos worship "the equivalent of christianity in real life" because the thalmor want none of it, one of the "main" reasons Ulfric is at war with them in the first place.
4. Do you even proof read this bullpl*** before u post it? lmao
Anyways, yea. Sounds a LOT like William Wallace to me. -_-

Being half Scottish myself, I find your analogy between William Wallace and Ulfric Stormcloak to be the dumbest thing I have ever read.

The worship of Talos is nothing like Christianity. You also forget the Eight/Nine Divines were the creation of the Empire, many consider them imposter gods. The Eight Divines were created during the First Empire, worship of Talos came around during the Third Empire.

Unless you somehow got it into your mind that Christianity has the worship of a Military leader many years after the creation of said religion. Talos isn't Jesus. I don't understand why those who consider themselves religious try to make an analogy between Christianity and Talos.

I'd try explaining it to u man, but there are some things certain people just can't comprehend.[/quote

1. Ulfric Stromcloak stepped up to defend his people from a strait up invasion from the thalmor.
2. Ulfric Stormcloak is fighting "one" enemy, the only reason he's also fighting the imperials is cuz the cowards are allied with the enemy he's fighting.
3. The imperial legion has banned talos worship "the equivalent of christianity in real life" because the thalmor want none of it, one of the "main" reasons Ulfric is at war with them in the first place.
4. Do you even proof read this bullpl*** before u post it? lmao
Anyways, yea. Sounds a LOT like William Wallace to me. -_-

Being half Scottish myself, I find your analogy between William Wallace and Ulfric Stormcloak to be the dumbest thing I have ever read.

The worship of Talos is nothing like Christianity. You also forget the Eight/Nine Divines were the creation of the Empire, many consider them imposter gods. The Eight Divines were created during the First Empire, worship of Talos came around during the Third Empire.

Unless you somehow got it into your mind that Christianity has the worship of a Military leader many years after the creation of said religion. Talos isn't Jesus. I don't understand why those who consider themselves religious try to make an analogy between Christianity and Talos.

I'd try explaining it to u man, but there are some things certain people just can't comprehend.

"when did i ever insult anyone?" this is what they were talking about.

 

[nightmare16]

this is very enlightening from what i have read here is my opinion. ulfric makes a legit case in his war but he is doin nothing but weaken skyrim AND the empire for the 2nd great war. i have to take the empire side solely from what i have read on this thread. if ulfric beats the empire he is only giving skyrim to the thalmor. they will take over and have an even stronger foot hold in tamriel. but if the empire wins the war. the empire would be weakened from the fight with skyrim and the thalmor would be able to easily invade. any way i possibly look at it the thalmor win

 

[DrunkenMage]

this is very enlightening from what i have read here is my opinion. ulfric makes a legit case in his war but he is doin nothing but weaken skyrim AND the empire for the 2nd great war. i have to take the empire side solely from what i have read on this thread. if ulfric beats the empire he is only giving skyrim to the thalmor. they will take over and have an even stronger foot hold in tamriel. but if the empire wins the war. the empire would be weakened from the fight with skyrim and the thalmor would be able to easily invade. any way i possibly look at it the thalmor win

Thalmor won't win, a Bethesda employee even hints so.

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/14...ou-just-hate-the-thalmor-dont-you/?p=22598810

 

[nightmare16]

this is very enlightening from what i have read here is my opinion. ulfric makes a legit case in his war but he is doin nothing but weaken skyrim AND the empire for the 2nd great war. i have to take the empire side solely from what i have read on this thread. if ulfric beats the empire he is only giving skyrim to the thalmor. they will take over and have an even stronger foot hold in tamriel. but if the empire wins the war. the empire would be weakened from the fight with skyrim and the thalmor would be able to easily invade. any way i possibly look at it the thalmor win

Thalmor won't win, a Bethesda employee even hints so.

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/14...ou-just-hate-the-thalmor-dont-you/?p=22598810

wow THAT REALLY GETS ME EXCITED FOR TES6!!!!! whether that will be in the lore or the actual game idk. anyway that is an eye opener but like i said that is what i took from this particular thread i factored nothing else into this opinion at least i tried not to

 

[adge05]

First post.

There is one thing I haven't seen argued re: Ulfric Stormcloak and whether or not he is honourable.

He killed Toryyg (spelling?) using The Voice, an extremely powerful and extremely rare form of power. The challenge to a duel may be as honourable as you like, but to bring a Abrams to the knife fight is not honourable.

Granted, that analogy is probably rather poor and stretched, but it serves to highlight a very important point. The slaying of the former High King was not honourable, and not the actions of an honourable man. To me, using such an extremely powerful means of attack in a 1-on-1 "honour" battle vs. an opponent you know is unable to defend against it, that's the actions of an opportunistic megalomaniac.

(saying that, however, I alternate between Stormcloaks and Imperials depending on my RP style/character build. After all - it's only a game )

 

[Crowley]

I honestly thought they wouldn't let you finish the Thalmor so that they could peddle the TES Online game. I do hope there's a part 6, but I can wait. Wouldn't want them to rush it and end up with even more bugs. I think it could be set during the second Great War, as there's no way to tell so far, how long it would take for all sides to be ready for it.

 

[Blackdoom59]

Yeah Ulfric is right, the white gold concordant is the way the elves are planning to usurp Skyrim and the men on Tamriel. His methods, however is what I dont agree with. He's waging war against the Empire instead of taking the fight to the real enemy, thus indirectly helping the Thalmor. On top of that he's racist as fluff.

The Empire is quite dumb as well, the entire civil war is like a two-year old kid's fight. There are the Thalmor who intend to rule over Tamriel, and then there is Skyrim and Cyrodiil, both hating it. Ulfric challanged and defeated the High King, and the Empire, instead of striking a truce with him, sends an army to fight him. Regardless of the outcome, either the united empire or stormcloak-ish skyrim will be weakened by the war, open for a Thalmor invasion.

I imagine looking at what happens in skyrim the high elfs must plops their pants from laughing.

 

[Crowley]

I think you're right

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Empire never sent an army, the garrison has always been in Skyrim. Ulfric never wanted a truce, as evident in Season Unending where he considers it a sign of weakness.

Ulfric knew exactly what would happen if he killed the High King, he was a Jarl and had served in the Imperial Legion. After he killed the High King, he fled back to Windhelm and called upon his supporters already having his private army he formed years back he declared war on the Western Holds. The Legion stepped in as the Holds and Jarls started picking sides to restore order.

It is called a Civil War for a reason, it's between the Nords. Cyrodiil and High Rock haven't got involved.

 

[Crowley]

The Empire wants it stopped, though, and they would send more soldiers. They did send up Tullius, so in a way, they are involved.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Empire hasn't completely got involved, which is why the Stormcloaks have come as far as they have.

"We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's cousin is getting married! If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire." - Ulfric Stormcloak

 

[Crowley]

I think that while the Empire does still send troops (and good point, by the way), if it did go all-in against Ulfric, it would prove him right all along, as well as gain the interest of the Aldmeri Dominion. It also goes a way to explaining why they changed their minds about giving Ulfric a trial of any kind before trying to execute him.
So what's the best thing to do there? Send up just enough soldiers and supplies etc to ensure the Stormcloaks lose. It's really the only way for the Empire to save face, given what the Stormcloaks have been accusing them of. Ok, with the Talos ban, the Empire lightly enforced it, but light enforcement is still enforcement, you know? It has a lot of trust building to do in order to help get rid of the schism that's going on, and would still do after the civil war has ended. It never did get to the aftermath.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Thalmor need Ulfric alive, they were in Helgen to try stop the execution. Tullius couldn't return to Cyrodiil the pass was blocked. It isn't opened until the Stormcloaks start winning the war and it is mentioned a new Imperial force is assembling in the South (Cyrodiil).

But sadly the letter that informs Ulfric of this new force is never sent.

 

[Blackdoom59]

If the Empire felt like it, they would just name Ulfric High King and leave it like that, then they could unite to strike at their bitter enemy- The Thalmor.