Question about upgrading weapons (bow)

[Arrow Slinger]

Hello everyone, I am new to Skyrim (just bought it last week) and have a question about upgrading weapons.

I have to admit I got into Smithing kind of late, like when my character was level 30 (level 42 now), but I have Smithed my way up to about 87 with that skill now and have perks in Ebony and Arcane areas (and their Pre-Reqs of course)

Here is my question - Why can't I upgrade the weapons when I have the available materials? Sometimes I go to upgrade it and it says "You don't have the required skill for this yet". I have the ebony ingots and materials to upgrade it. How soon before I can come back to upgrade it? How long do I have to wait?

Also, is there any reason two of the weapons will have different stats on them after upgrading? Like I have been using an Ebony bow that I upgraded to Exquiste (sp?), then Epic, and then Legendary. It does 177 points of damage. But over the weekend I found another Ebony bow and was going to upgrade it as well, but when I tried it went from the current state directly to Legendary status but it only has 144 point damage. Why would the amount be different?

Thank you so much for responding to my newbie questions, I hope to learn a good bit on here because I have quickly gotten addicted to this game.

 

[Dagmar]

To temper Ebony weapons or armor you don't even need the Ebony Smithing perk. You just wont be able to improve them past Flawless without gear enchanted with Fortify Smithing and/or Fortify Smithing potions. If it says you don't have the requisite skill to improve the item it means you've either already improved it as high as your skill will allow or it's a glitch.

Your displayed damage for any weapon is determined by a formula that applies your skill damage multipler and all your perk and enchantment damage bonuses for the weapon. If there is any change in any of those factors between when you look at one bow and another then the damage will be different. The most common reason for this is a change in the gear you are wearing. Similarly, if you wear Fortify Smithing gear while improving one weapon but not the other the resulting damage bonuses will be different.

 

[Arrow Slinger]

Hi Dagmar, thanks for taking time to respond to my question here (even if it has probably been asked a hundred times before...)

Ok, that makes sense. But I have been wearing Hat/Gauntlets of Fortified Smithing that give a 20% boost each.

So if I get the Fortified Smithing Potion and drink it before sitting down at the Grindstone (for bows) and the workbench (for armor) it will allowed me to upgrade the bow(s) higher then? Let's say I drink the potion to do it and get an upgrade of about 10 points, then when I am finished with this wait until the potion ends (it's only about 30 seconds total) back away, then go back to the grindstone / work bench, drink another potion and it will allow me to upgrade it again? Is that correct?

I have seen some bow stats for Elven Bows that were over 300 points of damage (not counting arrow damage) I would be happy with just something around 200 points.

 

[Streets]

Not sure if you will be able to make heads or tails of this, but I'll post it for your reference anyway.

Skyrim:Smithing - UESPWiki

You can also improve Bow damage by taking 5/5 of the Overdraw perk, and by wearing items of armor that improve Bow damage by a percentage.

The highest level of improvement is "Legendary" but there are many levels of legendary that you can attain. When you have the perk, you can improve something twice as much. Legendary starts being attainable at 91 smithing. Every new "level" of smithing you attain gives you 1.8 more damage to the base of your weapon. Every 17 skill points higher will net you another "level" of improvement. Since Legendary starts at 91, the next damage bump up will be at a smithing score of 108. You can reach this by wearing percentage increase smithing gear and/or drinking smithing potions. The next level is 125, then 142, etc.

If you have maxed enchanting, you should be able to make 4 pieces of gear for smithing 25% each, for a total of 100% increase to smithing. When you have 100 smithing skill, that will mean you have 200 smithing skill after those bonuses. You can also find in the wild or purchase a 50% smithing potion for an even bigger boost to your skill, 250 total. This would take you into "Legendary 9" level, and give you 26 more bonus damage to your BASE (Ebony bow has base 17 damage) than an unimproved weapon.

Hopefully I haven't confused you too much here.

 

[Squirrel_killer-]

When you improve a weapon you instantly improve it instantly to the greatest extent you can improve it to. Meaning if you improve it at level 20 smithing you won't be to improve it again without enchanted gear or until you have better smithing level even if you have the materials.

Anyways, welcome to the forums.

 

[Arrow Slinger]

Ok, I am grasping that... but still a bit confused. How do these people get the bows that do 300+ damage then? Because if I have a Legendary bow already, then I can't improve it anymore, correct?

My character (Wood Elf) is at Level 42. My smithing skill is around 81-83 (not sure exactly but will check when I get home).

 

[osheao]

they often exploit smithing, enchanting and alchemy to create monster weapons and armor.

 

[Streets]

Ok, I am grasping that... but still a bit confused. How do these people get the bows that do 300+ damage then? Because if I have a Legendary bow already, then I can't improve it anymore, correct?

My character (Wood Elf) is at Level 42. My smithing skill is around 81-83 (not sure exactly but will check when I get home).

If you have a Legendary bow, you can't make the name change from Legendary to anything else, but as I said above, every 17 more points in smithing adds another "level" of damage to your weapon. Your Smithing skill is around 80, and you have some gear that improves smithing, taking your effective skill to at least 91 so you can get the "legendary" quality. For ease of math, assuming you have 100 smithing skill: a Gauntlets of 15% smithing will make your effective smithing skill increase 15% or 115 now. That means, your weapon will receive a damage bonus upgrade from your previous 91 level legendary. Every 17 points is a new level of damage improvement, so 91 +17 = 108. 108 Smithing score will get you your next upgrade of damage. You should increase your smithing skill to 100, and use 4 pieces of enchanted smithing increase gear, and drink the highest level blacksmithing potion you can find, you should get at least 180 effective smithing skill.

 

[Nick_Tbolt]

Ok, I am grasping that... but still a bit confused. How do these people get the bows that do 300+ damage then? Because if I have a Legendary bow already, then I can't improve it anymore, correct?

My character (Wood Elf) is at Level 42. My smithing skill is around 81-83 (not sure exactly but will check when I get home).

On my wood elf character, my Dragon Bow does about 550 damage after upgrade. I have 4 items with the fortify smithing enchantment at about 29% each, and with my alchemy skill and 4 items of apparel using the fortify alchemy at +29%, and I can make a fortify smithing potion that does +129%. And on my regular armor I have 4 items that use +46% Archery each. If you know how to do it, its rather easy to create them.

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[Dagmar]

So if I get the Fortified Smithing Potion and drink it before sitting down at the Grindstone (for bows) and the workbench (for armor) it will allowed me to upgrade the bow(s) higher then?

It depends on what your resulting effective Smithing skill is. There are ranges of Smithing skill values for each quality level. For example, if you have the corresponding Smithing perk, Smithing skill from 74 to 90 will produce Epic quality weapons so improving your effective Smithing skill from 75 to 85 wont make a difference while changing it from 75 to 91 (Legendary) will.

I have seen some bow stats for Elven Bows that were over 300 points of damage (not counting arrow damage) I would be happy with just something around 200 points.

The hardcap for an Elven bow's displayed damage is around 510 if you have a full Smithing (100 skill and the appropriate perk), Enchanting (100 skill and 7 perks) and Alchemy (100 skill and 7 perks) build to make sets of Fortify Smithing and Fortify Alchemy gear (to make the Fortify Smithing potions and Fortify Enchanting potions) and wear 4 pieces of Fortify Archery apparel at 47% each and have 100 Archery Skill and all 5 of the Archery damage bonus perks (Overdraw).

You can also further increase your smithing bonus by using exploits. There is the Ancient Knowledge exploit ( a power you gain from doing quest that does something substantially different than what it is supposed to), the Necromage exploit (a perk that boosts enchanting effects on you if you're undead, i.e a vampire, instead of only increasing negative effects on you), the multiple equipment in the same slot exploit (certain head pieces can be dual equipped and enchanted with Fortify Alchemy and a more sophisticated exploit allows you to wear more than one item in each body slot for either Fortify Smithing or Alchemy enchanted gear) and the Fortify Restoration Potion exploit (fortifies all Fortify skill enchantments instead of only increasing the strength of Restoration spells and stacks with each previous use to create Fortify Alchemy gear to produce Fortify Smithing and Enchanting potions with no practical limit in strength). None of these are necessary as 500 plus damage is already overkill but some players don't have the patience and/or knowledge to make and use the full Smithing, Enchanting and Alchemy builds to produce the damage or enchantment strengths they want for weapons.

 

[Nick_Tbolt]

I have Krosis equipped +20%, necklace at +43%, a ring at +43%, Worn Cowl at +47%, and Worn Gloves at +47% Archery.

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[Arrow Slinger]

I have Helmet 30%, Gauntlets 30%, (both of these I found), Ring and Necklace 22% each.

I don't think I could make 47% items.

But a 500+ bow??? Wow! I would be happy (for a while I would think) with just a 250 one.

 

[Nick_Tbolt]

I have Helmet 30%, Gauntlets 30%, (both of these I found), Ring and Necklace 22% each.

I don't think I could make 47% items.

But a 500+ bow??? Wow! I would be happy (for a while I would think) with just a 250 one.

If I put on my alchemy helmet my bow does 605, all you have to do is get enchanting to 100 and get Enchanter 5/5 and insightful enchanter and that gives you +40%, then i made enchanting potions at +31% enchanting and that is how I got 47%. But I play on Master so its still fun

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[Arrow Slinger]

I am working on the Enchanting now with doing little stuff before I sell it.

 

[Psiberzerker]

In answer to one of the original questions, is the Bow Enchanted? If so, it would require the Arcane Enchanter Perk. If not, or you already have that, then Dagmar is right, it's probably a glitch.

As for the 2 Ebony Bows, one was Tempered twice, while the other only once. If you improve one, then your skill goes up, and you improve it again, then it will have higher damage than one that was improved only once. You can't improve it further until you level Smithing again.

 

[Arrow Slinger]

Ok, one more question (I promise) this is something else I am confused about - compare these two scenarios :

1 - I am level 20, find an Ebony bow and upgrade it only once. The stats are XXX
2 - I am level 60, find an Ebony bow and upgrade it only once. The stats are YYY

Will the stats be the same no matter when I upgrade it? (Let's not take into account any Fortifying Smithing Potions or % increase from items worn)

 

[Psiberzerker]

Is that skill level, or character level? You aren't going to get the Ebony Smithing perk at level 20, but yes, the amount of improvement goes up with skill level. Character level doesn't affect it.

 

[Nick_Tbolt]

Both should be the same damage as long as both get upgraded at the sane time, upgrade the bow at level 20, find another at level 60, then upgrade both and they should be the sane damage

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[Arrow Slinger]

Thanks for replying everyone, I am beginning to grasp how this works.

If you don't mind, here is another example.

(Keep in mind that Perks/Skills/Potions are the same. This helps me understand a bit better instead of having to factor in all these extras)

Suppose I find an Ebony bow when I reach level 30. I upgrade it when I reach Level 40, Level 50, Level 60. (just using this for a scenario, I realize it may not be correct.) After these three upgrades the Bow now has Legendary status.

While at Level 60, I find another Ebony bow. I upgrade it ONCE and it reaches Legendary status after only one upgrade.

My question is will the two bows have the same stats? Remember no potions/skills/perks factored in. (While it may be impossible to do it without these, this is just a "what if" type question so please bear with me.)

 

[Nick_Tbolt]

Thanks for replying everyone, I am beginning to grasp how this works.

If you don't mind, here is another example.

(Keep in mind that Perks/Skills/Potions are the same. This helps me understand a bit better instead of having to factor in all these extras)

Suppose I find an Ebony bow when I reach level 30. I upgrade it when I reach Level 40, Level 50, Level 60. (just using this for a scenario, I realize it may not be correct.) After these three upgrades the Bow now has Legendary status.

While at Level 60, I find another Ebony bow. I upgrade it ONCE and it reaches Legendary status after only one upgrade.

My question is will the two bows have the same stats? Remember no potions/skills/perks factored in. (While it may be impossible to do it without these, this is just a "what if" type question so please bear with me.)

Yes, they should have the same damage after upgrading as long as they are upgraded a the same time

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