One handed or two handed?

[Psiberzerker]

Well, since I confused everyone by focussing on @H in my fist post, let me detail all the ways that 1H is nominally superior that 2. Again, this is purely min-maxing for DPS, while Damage per Strike (Instead of Second, or Speed) is generally higher with 2H.

First up, you can have 2 of them. This means to take advantage of it, you pretty much have to Dual Wield, and say goodby to Block. You can always drop in a shield, if Dual Power Attach after Dual Power Attach gets old, and it's just that king of fight. However, you lose your Dual Flurry/Savagery bonuses, and if you Block at all, you lose your DPS advantage. However, you gain low stamina Stagger, and all the great things in Block, the greatest of which is Elemental Protection, which requires a Shield.

This is the ultimate advantage of 1H. If you perk out that Tree, Block, Destruction, and so on, you can Spellsword, Hack&Bash, or Dual Flurry for wide open Melees, duels with big stompies, and static damage races. (You can also Bash&Burn with a Shield/Spell combo on the same build.) 2H gives you 2H, Bash (Half of Block) and that's it, unless you swap out to something else. Also, the Drawing animation is very slow, on top of retarded running, high Stamina drain from such a heavy weapon, and slow striking speed.

As DarthSpecturm pointed out, Enchantments, and Smithing Improvements are not only multiplied by dual Wielding, but Striking Speed. If you put 15 points of Absorb Health on a Dagger, and a Greatsword, you will hit 3 times to every one with the Dagger/Greatsword. Doesn't matter which material, or smithing tier, all else being equal, you will proc these effects more often with 1H, and double that with DW. (If you use double Power/Attacks.) Dual Flurry just enhances this more, though Elemental Fury only works with weapons that aren't technically Enchanted. (Windshear's Stagger, the Bleed DoT from perked Haxes, the Ebony Blade, and a few others.) Bleed/Burn is particularly effective this way, because each DoT effect stacks, so you can keep piling them on until it's doing more DPS than your Strikes!

Looking at it that way, it appears that Daggers are the most effective weapons possible. However, there's some minor glitches that make this less than so. For instance, Daggers aren't affected by all 1H Perks, Potions, and don't have specialized perks that can further enhance damage. However, if you're just going to Double Attack, daggers (Not counting the Blade of Woe, which swings at Sword speed) in the off-hand give you the fastest Double Attacks, and Dual Flurries. Therefore, you can have a Mace in the primary hand, and just for these two techniques, it will strike just as fast. Also, when you Dual Power Attack (I just say Dual Flurry for short) with a Dagger in the primary hand, there's a grip switch added to the animation which adds a small delay. It's not much, but as it's slower than doing the same thing with a Sword, which does more damage, this strike does significantly less DPS with a primary sword than a dagger. (I have to assume this is intentional.) I prefer a Dagger/Handaxe combo to stack up Hack&Slash bleeding as quickly as possible, either with Elemental Flurry, or a Fire Enchantment to stack on Burning DoT. This is literally the fastest way to kill off anything that's not immune to either effect. (Draugr don't Bleed, but the Burning does more damage to compensate.)

Now, the reasons why I usually go with Blades Sword/Skyforge Steel Handaxe instead is because 1) Sword/Axe makes both of them strike at the same speed, so I can chose one, or the other every attack. It's usually the Axe, because of the bleed, but the Sword is better for Reach with the left hand Power Attack, to make up for the short reach on the hatchet. 2) Both are Steel Tier, so with 1 Perk, and about 31 Smithing, I can get both up to Superior (In 1 crafting session so I don't have to do it again) while they both do more damage than either regular Steel Weapons. 3) with Bleed, and Critical perks, I can enhance both of their damages, and 4) There's more good Enchanted Swords in the game than any other, for upgrades. So, I can grab Windshear for Staggering offhand attacks that don't use stamina (Hack, and Slash with the effect of Hack, and Bash, regular attacks, and higher damage in both hands! Plus Bleed/Crit.) The Drainheart Sword for infinispin, each Dual Flurry recovers stamina so you can do it again, and again, and again until you have to stop, and recharge,or swap for one that isn't dead. (You can get a stack of them, and they're dagger light, though not speed.) The Nightingale Blade I shouldn't have to explain. Drain Health, and Stamina on a stick, only heavier, and up to Daedric damage without Smithing. (Or you can smith it up with 5 less Stamina Drain, and 1 less Base Damage. Leveled Item.)

Unfortunately, there's no scripted handaxes with a decent Enchantment. Sorry, you pretty much have to DiY, find one in Random Loot, or be satisfied with "Just" bleed damage (Which is plenty for me.) Regardless, once you dial into Sword/Axe, the timing and DPS are about optimal. I usually just stick with the starter set, Tachi, Hatchet, Armsman(1-5), Critical Strike91-3) H&S(1-3) Fighting Stance, and Critical Charge handle all the power curve up to OP, once I get the initial Smithing out of the way. Both can be gotten up to equivalent to Ebony with 1 Perk, and 31 Smithing, and unenchanted, you can use Dual Flurry.

If I'm an Assassin, I swap between those, Windshear, and Valdir's Lucky Dagger. Still Steel, but faster, and you can still proc Assassin's Blade offhand, then stand up to stunlock everything to death with Crits popping off like corn.

 

[DarthSpecturm]

Well, since I confused everyone by focussing on @H in my fist post, let me detail all the ways that 1H is nominally superior that 2. Again, this is purely min-maxing for DPS, while Damage per Strike (Instead of Second, or Speed) is generally higher with 2H.

First up, you can have 2 of them. This means to take advantage of it, you pretty much have to Dual Wield, and say goodby to Block. You can always drop in a shield, if Dual Power Attach after Dual Power Attach gets old, and it's just that king of fight. However, you lose your Dual Flurry/Savagery bonuses, and if you Block at all, you lose your DPS advantage. However, you gain low stamina Stagger, and all the great things in Block, the greatest of which is Elemental Protection, which requires a Shield.

This is the ultimate advantage of 1H. If you perk out that Tree, Block, Destruction, and so on, you can Spellsword, Hack&Bash, or Dual Flurry for wide open Melees, duels with big stompies, and static damage races. (You can also Bash&Burn with a Shield/Spell combo on the same build.) 2H gives you 2H, Bash (Half of Block) and that's it, unless you swap out to something else. Also, the Drawing animation is very slow, on top of retarded running, high Stamina drain from such a heavy weapon, and slow striking speed.

As DarthSpecturm pointed out, Enchantments, and Smithing Improvements are not only multiplied by dual Wielding, but Striking Speed. If you put 15 points of Absorb Health on a Dagger, and a Greatsword, you will hit 3 times to every one with the Dagger/Greatsword. Doesn't matter which material, or smithing tier, all else being equal, you will proc these effects more often with 1H, and double that with DW. (If you use double Power/Attacks.) Dual Flurry just enhances this more, though Elemental Fury only works with weapons that aren't technically Enchanted. (Windshear's Stagger, the Bleed DoT from perked Haxes, the Ebony Blade, and a few others.) Bleed/Burn is particularly effective this way, because each DoT effect stacks, so you can keep piling them on until it's doing more DPS than your Strikes!

Looking at it that way, it appears that Daggers are the most effective weapons possible. However, there's some minor glitches that make this less than so. For instance, Daggers aren't affected by all 1H Perks, Potions, and don't have specialized perks that can further enhance damage. However, if you're just going to Double Attack, daggers (Not counting the Blade of Woe, which swings at Sword speed) in the off-hand give you the fastest Double Attacks, and Dual Flurries. Therefore, you can have a Mace in the primary hand, and just for these two techniques, it will strike just as fast. Also, when you Dual Power Attack (I just say Dual Flurry for short) with a Dagger in the primary hand, there's a grip switch added to the animation which adds a small delay. It's not much, but as it's slower than doing the same thing with a Sword, which does more damage, this strike does significantly less DPS with a primary sword than a dagger. (I have to assume this is intentional.) I prefer a Dagger/Handaxe combo to stack up Hack&Slash bleeding as quickly as possible, either with Elemental Flurry, or a Fire Enchantment to stack on Burning DoT. This is literally the fastest way to kill off anything that's not immune to either effect. (Draugr don't Bleed, but the Burning does more damage to compensate.)

Now, the reasons why I usually go with Blades Sword/Skyforge Steel Handaxe instead is because 1) Sword/Axe makes both of them strike at the same speed, so I can chose one, or the other every attack. It's usually the Axe, because of the bleed, but the Sword is better for Reach with the left hand Power Attack, to make up for the short reach on the hatchet. 2) Both are Steel Tier, so with 1 Perk, and about 31 Smithing, I can get both up to Superior (In 1 crafting session so I don't have to do it again) while they both do more damage than either regular Steel Weapons. 3) with Bleed, and Critical perks, I can enhance both of their damages, and 4) There's more good Enchanted Swords in the game than any other, for upgrades. So, I can grab Windshear for Staggering offhand attacks that don't use stamina (Hack, and Slash with the effect of Hack, and Bash, regular attacks, and higher damage in both hands! Plus Bleed/Crit.) The Drainheart Sword for infinispin, each Dual Flurry recovers stamina so you can do it again, and again, and again until you have to stop, and recharge,or swap for one that isn't dead. (You can get a stack of them, and they're dagger light, though not speed.) The Nightingale Blade I shouldn't have to explain. Drain Health, and Stamina on a stick, only heavier, and up to Daedric damage without Smithing. (Or you can smith it up with 5 less Stamina Drain, and 1 less Base Damage. Leveled Item.)

Unfortunately, there's no scripted handaxes with a decent Enchantment. Sorry, you pretty much have to DiY, find one in Random Loot, or be satisfied with "Just" bleed damage (Which is plenty for me.) Regardless, once you dial into Sword/Axe, the timing and DPS are about optimal. I usually just stick with the starter set, Tachi, Hatchet, Armsman(1-5), Critical Strike91-3) H&S(1-3) Fighting Stance, and Critical Charge handle all the power curve up to OP, once I get the initial Smithing out of the way. Both can be gotten up to equivalent to Ebony with 1 Perk, and 31 Smithing, and unenchanted, you can use Dual Flurry.

If I'm an Assassin, I swap between those, Windshear, and Valdir's Lucky Dagger. Still Steel, but faster, and you can still proc Assassin's Blade offhand, then stand up to stunlock everything to death with Crits popping off like corn.

YES, finally, I was right when I said BoW swing at normal sword speed, making dragonbone dagger the best.
Now you just proved it.

Anyways, daggers DOES benefit from all the one handed perks, just not any skill increase that is applied through enchantments or potions. You may think it doesn't do to it's initial low damage, causing 20% to not show because skyrim rounds down. Dagger, is the best weapon choice if you have Dragonborn DLC and have gotten the chaos damage enchantment.

The only benefit from dual wielding before receiving the perks is the power attack, which is a 4 hit combo, and increased weapon speed if you have a faster weapon in your off hand, because you can't swing both weapons at the same time in a normal attack. But you are not actually gaining more damage by holding a faster weapon in the off hand because the stamina is calculated by the right handed weapon, you are extra damage is payed for by higher stamina cost.
However, when using a power attack of with a dagger, it will sometimes trigger the power attack animation used for the dagger, which is a lengthy process of first flicking the dagger into an ice pick hold before proceeding to strike the enemy, which would actually slow down your attack speed.

Sword n' Board, could be a bit bland at times, but, if you have the satellite dish they tricked you into believing that it was a shield, Spell Breaker, you would know that you become invincible when blocking; with the right perks.
It takes 50 or more magical damage per second to break the ward, 100 with elemental protection, which means that the spell caster needs to dual cast a expert spell, or use a master leveled spell to break the ward. With the heavy perk, tower of strength, they now only have a 50% chance of breaking your ward even if they do enough damage.
Best of all, the ward on Spell Breaker does not need soul gems or magicka, it is up as long as you hold block.
2 hand weapons can't do that.

Also, the one handed perks that specialize in a particular weapon, like the crit for the sword and the bleed for the axe is useless at later levels, since the critical for the sword is calculated by it's original, pre upgraded damage, and the axe, with rank 3 of the perk, it still only deals 18 damage over 6 seconds, and, if you are fast enough, 54 damage, since it stacks 3 times.

You can put these perks to better use else where.

 

[Psiberzerker]

YES, finally, I was right when I said BoW swing at normal sword speed, making dragonbone dagger the best. Now you just proved it... daggers DOES benefit from all the one handed perks, just not any skill increase that is applied through enchantments or potions. You may think it doesn't do to it's initial low damage, causing 20% to not show because skyrim rounds down. Dagger, is the best weapon choice if you have Dragonborn DLC and have gotten the chaos damage enchantment.

The only benefit from dual wielding before receiving the perks is the power attack, which is a 4 hit combo, and increased weapon speed if you have a faster weapon in your off hand, because you can't swing both weapons at the same time in a normal attack. But you are not actually gaining more damage by holding a faster weapon in the off hand because the stamina is calculated by the right handed weapon, you are extra damage is payed for by higher stamina cost. However, when using a power attack of with a dagger, it will sometimes trigger the power attack animation used for the dagger, which is a lengthy process of first flicking the dagger into an ice pick hold before proceeding to strike the enemy, which would actually slow down your attack speed.

Sword n' Board, could be a bit bland at times, but, if you have the satellite dish they tricked you into believing that it was a shield, Spell Breaker, you would know that you become invincible when blocking; with the right perks. It takes 50 or more magical damage per second to break the ward, 100 with elemental protection, which means that the spell caster needs to dual cast a expert spell, or use a master leveled spell to break the ward. With the heavy perk, tower of strength, they now only have a 50% chance of breaking your ward even if they do enough damage. Best of all, the ward on Spell Breaker does not need soul gems or magicka, it is up as long as you hold block. 2 hand weapons can't do that.

Also, the one handed perks that specialize in a particular weapon, like the crit for the sword and the bleed for the axe is useless at later levels, since the critical for the sword is calculated by it's original, pre upgraded damage, and the axe, with rank 3 of the perk, it still only deals 18 damage over 6 seconds, and, if you are fast enough, 54 damage, since it stacks 3 times.

You can put these perks to better use else where.

{Sigh} Look, I didn't write all that hoping someone would just come along, and troubleshoot it and make it "Better." All right? It may not be your personal opinion of the be all, and end all of utlimate optimality, and that's ok. And yet, with the inevitability of death, and taxes, sure enough, here you are, repeating everything I just said, and trying to "prove" something. I have nothing to prove, the question is "Which do you like best, and why?" And MY answer is, I like 2H builds, and 1H builds, this is how I do it, and this is why. There's not reason to argue with it, because it's what I like. if you don't like it, then don't play it. Play your way, and I will continue Not saying my way is "better." However, since you decided to CORRECT me needlessly, allow me to point out where you're incorrect, and why.:

1st of all, a dagger doesn't benefit from ALL Perks, no weapon does, Swords have Bladesman, Handaxes Hack&Slash, and Maces have Skull Crusher. Daggers don't benefit from any of them. Up next, the Stamina Cost is determined by the Right Handed Weapon, but the Animation Speed is governed by the Left Handed weapon, just like I said. Load up your DW character, and try the following combos: (Left/Right) Dual Daggers, Dagger/Sword, Dagger/Axe, Dagger/Mace. Now, do 4 Dual Power Attacks. If you get the gripswitch animation, only the Dual Daggers are slower. The Sword, Axe, and Mace each do more damage per strike, all else being equal, so you are doing more damage with the Dual Power Attacks with those combos with a dagger,, and any other weapon than with 2 daggers, just like I said. Same Materials, same Smithing tier, same enchantments, more damage with Dual Power Attacks. it's just that simple. Same goes for the Dual Attack, except for the gripswitch animation, but you're still doing more damage in the exact same time, so yet again, higher DPS with a Dagger, and any other weapon. Now, do the same thing with Sword/Axe, and Axe/Mace. While you are at it, try the regular non-power attacks with each hand, they strike at the same speed, so you can use the same timing with either hand with any of those combos, just like I said. As for Stamina, there's lots of ways around that, one of my favorites is Absorb Stamina. It doesn't do more damage, but you can spin away with Dual power Attacks, and if you use a Drainheart Sword, it weighs less than a Daedric Dagger. Doesn't do as much damage, but again, you're the one who seems to think that this is the Only useful attack, so it might be nice if you could do it indefinitely, even if it ment not doing quite as much damage per individual strike.

Now what? Ah yes, Spellbreaker, I love that thing, and abuse it way better than that petty unimaginative little bit you put up there. You got dragonborn, I see. Have you tried that "Sattelite dish they call a shield" with Ahzidal's Gauntlets yet? And Ward Absorb? it's awesome.

Aaaannnd ye olde' weapon specialization perks debate. I like them, you can't debate that. Why? You did the math, I tried with, and without, I still like them. I'm sure you can only stack up 3 instances of 18DPS in 3 seconds, but with an offhand dagger, Dual Flurry, Elemental Fury, and 2 Dual Power Attacks, I can more than double that. So, more than 100 damage every Dual power Attack isn't enough extra damage to impress you, but the random chance to possibly do an extra Chaos Enchantment is enough to make 2 daggers better for everyone ever playing this game than a greatsword in every fight? Hmm, I can't figure out if you haven't thought this through enough, or you've thought about it too much after you already decided that daggers are really really cool. If you think that's enough to make up for only being able to hit people right in front of you, being unable to shift targets mid animation because you already committed to your Dual Power Attacks, randomly adding an extra unneeded move to your favorite attack that lowers your DPS, which is the only combined statistic in the entire game that is worth considering in your optimization, and depending on a randomly proccing nifty new enchantment that can just as easilly pick the wrong element, and burn an enemy that's immune to Fire, then more power to you. I can only hazard a guess that you never actually playtested anything else, and that's why you've deluded yourself into the assumption that it's actually the most DPS that's possible to get?

That's fine, I'm going to keep playing Skyforge Steel War Axe, and Tachi because I like it. Not because it does the highest DPS out of all the possible combinations in the game, (It doesn't) but because it's easy to get at low level, does enough damage in the end game with 1 perk in Smithing, has 7 attacks I use with regularity, 3 more I can pull out if I need them, and procs a set of 3 perks I happen to be worth the 3 Points. I'll also keep using Greatswords, mostly because I think they're fun, and I know how to use Reach. You don't agree with me? You don't have to, but before you Correct me, you might want to make sure you are, in fact, correct.

 

[Andre2807]

Here's my opinion. If you use one handed weapons or two handed weapons... do they kill? They do what they are supposed to do. Lets see: What do you do with a sword, dagger, mace, axe, war hammer, greatsword and war axe?

If your answer is: To kill, there is no need for this debate as all comes down to personal preference. TO EACH IS OWN. Both weapon types do exactly the same thing, just in a different manner. End of discussion.