PS3 Imperials or Stormcloaks?

[JCD-Bionicman]

[Revised thread and opinion]

When you look at the big picture it seems as though neither faction is really better than the other, but when you look more closely, the Stormcloaks are the only really logical choice.

The greatest argument against the Stormcloaks is that by separating from the empire they will destroy any long term chance for fighting off the Thalmor. One must consider that by completely surrendering to the Thalmor, and ordering the Blades execution, and allowing the Thalmor complete control over its people and lands the empire is effectively a former shell of its former glory and no longer itself. The empire has no plans at all for driving back the thalmor, and any resistance is ultimately only going to come from movements not backed by the emperor and his government. Skyrim can in the future ally with the empire if they really are so patriotic, but in all liklihood the empire will fight with the Thalmor against Skyrim and then who is the empire then really? They might as well be the Thalmor.

In the end, the Stormcloaks raciness is much more preferable to the Thalmor's heavy oppression and the empire's backing of such oppression. Thalmor abduct anyone who so much as looks at them wrong on a daily basis, torturing and/or killing them.

Also, under the counsel of the Dragonborn, there is potential for Ulfric's views to become more sympathetic to non-nords.

 

[Pete]

I usually choose based on what kind of character I'm playing. I think of it as more like the Germans Clans vs the Romans.

 

[imaginepageant]

I will always support the Stormcloaks, for the sole reason that I cannot support a group that is oppressing the religious freedom of others, which the Empire is doing in extension of the Aldmeri Dominion.

(That is, I personally will always support the Stormcloaks. I do, however, plan to play an Imperial and join the Imperial Legion at some point, so I can experience both sides of that questline.)

 

[ZeroDragon]

I've avoided the decision so far. Does my Nord wish to drink mead and sing bawdy songs in the long hall with Ulfric and his fellow warriors ? Or would he don his fine clothes to pay court to Elisif the Fair ?

 

[The Fallen Hero]

Ulfric is a traitor and the Empire are corrupt and tried to cut my head off. I say neither and only the ones who posses The Way of The Voice should be leaders of Skyrim.

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

Imperial Legion. I refuse to side with those who are intolerant of others, simply based on appearance and race. If Ulfric really wanted to be rid of the Thalmor, he would have found a way to work alongside the Empire and take out the Aldmeri Dominion.

Instead, this needless continuation of the Civil War is only what the Thalmor want. It benefits them, as does this notion of peace with the Empire. I've had Thalmor tell me that the peace they have with the Empire will only continue as long as it benefits them. So, the true enemy is not the Empire. The Empire needs much help if the real threat wants to be taken care of.

But instead of helping, Ulfric throws a temper tantrum like the child that he is.

 

[bulbaquil]

I personally take the Stormcloak side most of the time, but Bethesda made a really good job of making sure both sides had their drawbacks and it wasn't an Obviously Evil Empire vs. Obviously Good Resistance sort of thing.

Imperials-vs.-Stormcloaks polls here have actually turned out very close to 50/50, which seems to indicate to me that they did it quite right.

(Also, if you think Imperials/Stormcloaks is a tough decision to make, "In My Time of Need" is even less straightforward.)

 

[JCD-Bionicman]

Imperial Legion. I refuse to side with those who are intolerant of others, simply based on appearance and race.

My character is a Breton and they welcomed me with open arms. The only people they really hate are the dark elves, and they actually kind of have a legitimate gripe, as it seems all dark elves owe some alleigence however small or large to the Aldmeri Dominion. Of course, there are exceptions, as with the dark elf that helps you infiltrate the embassy. I assume there is a quest or mini quest, or maybe just some dialogue that would show Ulfric's softer side. Also, he lets a person speak on behalf of the other races, and he hasn't killed him or even run him out, he lets him advise. Also, consider ulfric hasn't started another "purging" just yet. He is definitally more tolerant than most nords out there.

If Ulfric really wanted to be rid of the Thalmor, he would have found a way to work alongside the Empire and take out the Aldmeri Dominion.

I dont think that was ever gonna happen. The empire is corrupt to it's core. It's basically a puppet of the Thalmor.

Instead, this needless continuation of the Civil War is only what the Thalmor want. It benefits them.

So long as the fighting continues, but not if the stormcloaks win. There's a dossier that expresses the Thalmor's concern with this.

I've had Thalmor tell me that the peace they have with the Empire will only continue as long as it benefits them. So, the true enemy is not the Empire.

Im sorry but I don't follow. The Thalmor are benefitting from the peace because the leadership of the empire bitched out, and they basically do whatever is asked of them. If the empire showed more resistance to the Thalmor, I would have less of a problem with them.

The Empire needs much help if the real threat wants to be taken care of.

Yes. The dragonbloodline needs to be reestablished. It's not that I want to see the empire crumble, but until something can be done to change the leadership, making skyrim independant from the cancer is the better option for now.

 

[perkecet]

Imperial Legion. I refuse to side with those who are intolerant of others, simply based on appearance and race. If Ulfric really wanted to be rid of the Thalmor, he would have found a way to work alongside the Empire and take out the Aldmeri Dominion.

Instead, this needless continuation of the Civil War is only what the Thalmor want. It benefits them, as does this notion of peace with the Empire. I've had Thalmor tell me that the peace they have with the Empire will only continue as long as it benefits them. So, the true enemy is not the Empire. The Empire needs much help if the real threat wants to be taken care of.

But instead of helping, Ulfric throws a temper tantrum like the child that he is.

yes yes yes. more must realize this. all these character flaws and poor decisions aside, Ulfric is a terrible general anyway. the only reason they have an advantage is because it's their homeland. if the war was set on equal ground the stormcloaks would be but a silly little insect to be stepped upon.

 

[imaginepageant]

But instead of helping, Ulfric throws a temper tantrum like the child that he is.

Giving the Empire thirty years to right the wrong they did to the people of Tamriel by signing the White-Gold Concordat before finally taking matters into his own hands and fighting for the religious freedom of his people is a temper tantrum?

Wow.

 

[JCD-Bionicman]

"In My Time of Need" is even less straightforward.

Well, yes, yes it is. However the Alik'r captain's story was more convincing to me. He gives you more details and background whereas the woman is very brief and vague. He claims he is not an assassin but an agent where he is telling the truth where the woman claims they are assassins and she is lying.

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

Giving the Empire thirty years to right the wrong they did to the people of Tamriel by signing the White-Gold Concordat before finally taking matters into his own hands and fighting for the religious freedom of his people is a temper tantrum?

Wow.

The Empire had no choice. Clearly if you paid attention, you would know that the Empire did their best to fight against the Aldermi Dominion. Honestly, if the Empire can't take them out, what hope does an independent Skyrim have? 'Cause it worked so well for Hammerfell right? They broke from the Empire, continued to fight against the Thalmor and still ended up signing a Treaty.

Seems like the Aldermi are using the classic tactic divide and conquer. Honestly, smart on their parts.

And just because...

Later, in 4E 171, the Thalmor invaded Hammerfell and Cyrodiil after Titus Mede II rejected their Ultimatum. Aldmeri forces would push deep into both provinces, taking many cities, including the Imperial City. The Thalmor then faced their greatest defeat (later known as the Battle of the Red Ring), in which they lost all of their forces in Cyrodiil. Despite this, due mainly to the exhaustion of the Imperial Legions, the Great War ended with the White-Gold Concordat, which resulted in Talos worship being outlawed in the Empire and a significant portion of southern Hammerfell becoming part of the Dominion. However, Hammerfell rejected the treaty and left the Empire, continuing to fight the Thalmor until 4E 180, when the Second Treaty of Stros M'kai was signed by both sides, resulting in the Aldmeri forces pulling out of Hammerfell and a territorial status quo.

 

[perkecet]

it DID work for hammerfell because their treaty wasnt bending knee to the dominion and giving in. their treaty was due to a victory on their part, ending any and all thalmor presence in hammerfell.

 

[imaginepageant]

Honestly, if the Empire can't take them out, what hope does an independent Skyrim have? 'Cause it worked so well for Hammerfell right?

Uh, yes, actually. It did. Because, as you so helpfully pointed out yourself:

However, Hammerfell rejected the treaty and left the Empire, continuing to fight the Thalmor until 4E 180, when the Second Treaty of Stros M'kai was signed by both sides, resulting in the Aldmeri forces pulling out of Hammerfell and a territorial status quo.

How does this even remotely support your argument?

Hammerfell seceded from the Empire and continued to fight the Aldmeri Dominion independently, eventually driving them out with the Second Treaty of Stros M'Kai, and reclaiming the Hammerfell for the Redguards—becoming the only province to have successfully defeated the Aldmeri Dominion. This proves that a province can become independent successfully, and not require the support of the Empire to fight the Aldmeri Dominion—which is exactly what the Stormcloaks are trying to achieve for Skyrim.

 

[perkecet]

^beat ya to it =P but yeah, the stormcloaks could defeat the empire, and then drive out the thalmor. that's were it would end though. ulfric probably would be content with an independent skyrim, not crossing borders to fight any other war against anybody. at that point the thalmor would take over cyrodiil due to a weakened legion. that would lead to the dominion eventually controlling the continent save skyrim and hammerfell. once that happens, their forces should be strong enough to steamroll the nords and the redguards, ending the reign of humans in tamriel. this is why the empire is the only sensible side to be on.

Also, to anyone who thinks the emperor and the empire are just little children listening to the dominion no matter what, they're not. most, if not all, of the imperial-appointed jarls in skyrim continue to worship talos behind closed doors. the emperor himself does as well. after one of my characters assassinated him i looked in the wardrobe, amulet of talos. ulfric is just too stuck up to keep his beliefs to himself for the time being until the empire can regain it's strength and slaughter those damn elves.

 

[bulbaquil]

Well, yes, yes it is. However the Alik'r captain's story was more convincing to me. He gives you more details and background whereas the woman is very brief and vague. He claims he is not an assassin but an agent where he is telling the truth where the woman claims they are assassins and she is lying.

There's no way to really know for a fact which side is true and which side isn't, but I generally side with Kematu as well. I'm not sure exactly why "speaking out against the Aldmeri Dominion publicly" would even be a crime in Hammerfell, much less a capital one.

 

[Dylansauce02]

I side with the Empire. I understand that one of their legates tried to cut my head off, but it was just ONE person who was very clearly a highly irritable woman. If Skyrim were to defect from the Empire, that would take away that much force that our leigon has. The Empire plans to find away out of the White Gold Concordant somehow, someday and when we are tearing our brothers apart it just distracts us from the real enemy, the Thalmor. Hell, even the Thalmor supply to the Stormcloaks in ways they don't notice to keep the empire distracted. I understand that the Stormcloaks feel that we are putting ourselves down by agreeing with the Elves rediculous demands but would you rather have that or your whole family killed and your city destroyed by the Thalmor, and you enslaved and tortured? The worship of Talos is outlawed, but just because something is illegal doesn't mean that you should fight against the 'puppets of the Thalmor' who you think caused this. When you use logic, you realize that the Thalmor really left the Empire no choice but to go along with their demands. We need to Empire to be strong and the Stormcloaks to join us to fight against the Thalmor. Skyrim may be the land of the nords, but the Empire is the land of the people.

 

[Flint firestorm]

Ulfric: killer and torturor of civilians of markaerth
Racist
Power hungry
Dishonourable
Murderer
Talmar puppet
Misuses the thuum
Disregards culture
Locks up people who disagree with him
Does not look after his solders

Imperials:defended skyrim
Not racist
Regaining power
Only tried to kill you thinking you were a stormclocks

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

Uh, yes, actually. It did. Because, as you so helpfully pointed out yourself:



How does this even remotely support your argument?

Hammerfell seceded from the Empire and continued to fight the Aldmeri Dominion independently, eventually driving them out with the Second Treaty of Stros M'Kai, and reclaiming the Hammerfell for the Redguards—becoming the only province to have successfully defeated the Aldmeri Dominion. This proves that a province can become independent successfully, and not require the support of the Empire to fight the Aldmeri Dominion—which is exactly what the Stormcloaks are trying to achieve for Skyrim.

It seems like the Stormcloaks are only in it for the Nords and the Nords alone. I seriously doubt the Redguards had the same backing to their war efforts. And if Hammerfall truly defeated the Aldmeri Dominion, then wouldn't the Thalmor be completely wiped out? But, they aren't. They are still around and kicking, and I doubt Ulfric and his toadies going to the Summerset Isle, on the Thalmor's turf would earn such a victory either. Honestly, I think Ulfric would get his ass handed to him.

 

[JCD-Bionicman]

Ulfric: killer and torturor of civilians of markaerth

A-nope.

Racist

Aea somewhat, but more tolerant than most nords.

Power hungry

He seeks power with good intent.

Dishonourable

No

Murderer

No

Talmar puppet

Now I know for a fact that you have no idea what you're talking about, firstly because you misspelled "Thalmor" and secondly because that's false.

Misuses the thuum

Wow... really? Your just as selfrightous as the grey beards. With great power comes great responsibility. If you sit in a temple all day and yell at the wall, what the hell are you accomplishing?

Disregards culture
Locks up people who disagree with him
Does not look after his solders

And no.

Imperials:defended skyrim

No, they defended their interests.

Not racist

You can't say everybody in the empire is automatically not a racist.

Regaining power

They surrender more and more of their power to the Thalmor every day, so no.

Only tried to kill you thinking you were a stormclocks

Nope. You were captured because they didnt have time to sort out all the prisoners because they did so in haste, and they decided to kill you because they wanted to remain in secrecy.