Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

Yeah but even the Thalmor fear the Thalmor. As noted to what happened to Elenwen's predecessor. They have to maintain that arrogant part, that superior ideology. They slaughter Bosmer for being impure, what do you think they would do to another Thalmor who makes a mistake?

I bet after the Great War, who ever decided to change objectives, and ordered Naarifin deeper into Cyrodiil got a serious spanking.

 

[DrunkenMage]

This is very true and I know exactly where Jeremias is coming from.

Except where he is coming from is going on about military production. Armies need to be fed also, they need large numbers and good equipment and good training to even be a threat to the Thalmor.

So where are they going to get large amounts of good equipment, food and other resources when they're isolated and alone.

They're in no shape to go raiding Morrowind, High Rock, Hammerfell and Cyrodiil for resources like they once did.

 

[NENALATA]

Yeah the Thalmor are alot like the Corporations...

It wouldn't be pretty. Unlike the Legion... very different attitude and atmosphere. In the Legion everyone has this 'magnetic' sense of purpose and duty. The Thalmor have a sense of duty however often times it seems to be overshadowed by them stepping on each other's toes for advancement.

And no ~ It wouldn't be pretty. Might as well defect, pic a direction away from the Dominion and just start running.

 

[Jeremius]

DrunkenMage: Despite this, the Empire ended up actually losing the Great War. The White-Gold Concordant was a surrender paper. What did the Thalmor give up to the Empire? just the ability to overtly own them. The Empire is still owned by the Thalmor thanks to it. it will take a true warmonger like Ulfric or Galmar to get the Empire to break it and ramp up military production to a reasonable level.

No.

The Thalmor gave up large staggering tributes.

I did not know that. Where does it say they gave staggering tributes to the Empire other than not attacking them?

 

[DrunkenMage]

Yeah the Thalmor are alot like the Corporations...

It wouldn't be pretty. Unlike the Legion... very different attitude and atmosphere. In the Legion everyone has this 'magnetic' sense of purpose and duty. The Thalmor have a sense of duty however often times it seems to be overshadowed by them stepping on each other's toes for advancement.

The Legion is organized, set in their duty, working as one.

"Serve the Emperor. Uphold the law. Protect the citizenry."

But onto the thing about the Empire losing the war. They didn't, Thalmor gained banning of Talos and southern Hammerfell. They lost Southern Hammerfell and the banning of Talos was so poorly enforced that you could scream about Talos right where Thalmor Talos-Hunting HQ is for seven days in a row before you get bagged and tagged.

Both the Empire and Thalmor didn't make it well in the Great War. Thalmor lost their holdings gained by the WGC, lost an entire army, Talos was poorly enforced.

Empire lost hammerfell, two legions and are dealing with the Stormcloak rebellion.

Edit: The Thalmor isn't doing any better, their best asset is so incompetent that he got himself captured shortly after starting his rebellion. They had to try and save him.

 

[DrunkenMage]

DrunkenMage: Despite this, the Empire ended up actually losing the Great War. The White-Gold Concordant was a surrender paper. What did the Thalmor give up to the Empire? just the ability to overtly own them. The Empire is still owned by the Thalmor thanks to it. it will take a true warmonger like Ulfric or Galmar to get the Empire to break it and ramp up military production to a reasonable level.

No.

The Thalmor gave up large staggering tributes.

I did not know that. Where does it say they gave staggering tributes to the Empire other than not attacking them?

No they gave up that demand. They demanded the Empire, give them southern hammerfell, disband the blades, outlaw talos and to add more insult to pay the bastards large amounts of money. Thalmor do have balls, none can deny that.

 

[Jeremius]

No.

The Thalmor gave up large staggering tributes.

I did not know that. Where does it say they gave staggering tributes to the Empire other than not attacking them?

No they gave up that demand. They demanded the Empire, give them southern hammerfell, disband the blades, outlaw talos and to add more insult to pay the bastards large amounts of money. Thalmor do have balls, none can deny that.

That is not the Thalmor giving the Empire staggering tributes though. must have read that wrong.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I did not know that. Where does it say they gave staggering tributes to the Empire other than not attacking them?

No they gave up that demand. They demanded the Empire, give them southern hammerfell, disband the blades, outlaw talos and to add more insult to pay the bastards large amounts of money. Thalmor do have balls, none can deny that.

That is not the Thalmor giving the Empire staggering tributes though. must have read that wrong.

My fault, I worded that wrong.

 

[Jeremius]

No they gave up that demand. They demanded the Empire, give them southern hammerfell, disband the blades, outlaw talos and to add more insult to pay the bastards large amounts of money. Thalmor do have balls, none can deny that.

That is not the Thalmor giving the Empire staggering tributes though. must have read that wrong.

My fault, I worded that wrong.

Still, the Empire did surrender to the Thalmor, due to the WGC being just what the Thalmor wanted Mede to surrender to before the Great War.

 

[DrunkenMage]

That is not the Thalmor giving the Empire staggering tributes though. must have read that wrong.

My fault, I worded that wrong.

Still, the Empire did surrender to the Thalmor, due to the WGC being just what the Thalmor wanted Mede to surrender to before the Great War.

Mede didn't go for peace until it was his last option. You do know the Thalmor offered peace to Mede when they had captured the Imperial City?

However, there is a great difference between agreeing to such terms under the mere threat of war, and agreeing to them at the end of a long and destructive war. No part of the Empire would have accepted these terms in 4E 171, dictated by the Thalmor at swords-point. Titus II would have faced civil war. By 4E 175, most of the Empire welcomed peace at almost any price. - Great War

Titus Mede II, was a military genius. The Empire was at a disadvantage from the start, in fact Mede was advised against the war because the Military weakness of the Empire at the time.

Had the Empire actually surrendered there wouldn't be the White-Gold Concordat. It was a temporary peace so the Empire could regain strength, do people in this thread actually believe "Live to fight another day" is cowardly and weak?

It takes a real leader to know when to fight and when not to fight. Had the Empire not signed the White-Gold Concordat then they would have been destroyed internally, bandits and lawlessness was at a high. Skyrim had lost Markarth for two years, their source of silver which pays for majority of the Nine Holds. High Rock lost Wayrest to pirates.

If someone would provide me a better solution than signing the White-Gold Concordat, besides defeat and the death of 15 Legions at under half strength, just so a few old Nords can thump their chests in an Inn hundreds of miles away in Skyrim and go "Good defeat it was, well time for slavery, mass slaughter and a life of pain and misery. Least I already lived a full life."

 

[Jeremius]

My fault, I worded that wrong.

Still, the Empire did surrender to the Thalmor, due to the WGC being just what the Thalmor wanted Mede to surrender to before the Great War.

Mede didn't go for peace until it was his last option. You do know the Thalmor offered peace to Mede when they had captured the Imperial City?

However, there is a great difference between agreeing to such terms under the mere threat of war, and agreeing to them at the end of a long and destructive war. No part of the Empire would have accepted these terms in 4E 171, dictated by the Thalmor at swords-point. Titus II would have faced civil war. By 4E 175, most of the Empire welcomed peace at almost any price. - Great War

Titus Mede II, was a military genius. The Empire was at a disadvantage from the start, in fact Mede was advised against the war because the Military weakness of the Empire at the time.

Had the Empire actually surrendered there wouldn't be the White-Gold Concordat. It was a temporary peace so the Empire could regain strength, do people in this thread actually believe "Live to fight another day" is cowardly and weak?

It takes a real leader to know when to fight and when not to fight. Had the Empire not signed the White-Gold Concordat then they would have been destroyed internally, bandits and lawlessness was at a high. Skyrim had lost Markarth for two years, their source of silver which pays for majority of the Nine Holds. High Rock lost Wayrest to pirates.

If someone would provide me a better solution than signing the White-Gold Concordat, besides defeat and the death of 15 Legions at under half strength, just so a few old Nords can thump their chests in an Inn hundreds of miles away in Skyrim and go "Good defeat it was, well time for slavery, mass slaughter and a life of pain and misery. Least I already lived a full life."

You do not even need to war after the Great War. The Thalmor were just as beaten, and the Empire knew it. Even if they only knew it after the mess in Hammerfell, they knew it, and could have thrown off the shackles at any time. Your Elder Council is corrupt and willing to sell themselves into slavery just for a few years to "Recuperate and rebuild" which they squander on useless stuff instead of full on ramping up production for the "next Great War."

 

[DrunkenMage]

You do not even need to war after the Great War. The Thalmor were just as beaten, and the Empire knew it. Even if they only knew it after the mess in Hammerfell, they knew it, and could have thrown off the shackles at any time. Your Elder Council is corrupt and willing to sell themselves into slavery just for a few years to "Recuperate and rebuild" which they squander on useless stuff instead of full on ramping up production for the "next Great War."

The Empire still had to invade three provinces, so throwing off the 'shackles' any time they wanted?

You think the Empire has been doing nothing the past twenty six years? They placed nearly the entire Imperial army on the Dominion's border preparing for the next outbreak of war. They must have amassed a large enough force if they're on the border to invade Valenwood and Elsweyr. Valenwood alone is one of the hardest provinces to invade, so the Empire must believe they're close to go forward with such a provocative course of action.

Going up in Military production? Smith in Solitude all he makes is weapons and armor for the Imperial Legion, the smith in Whiterun is given a large order to create weapons for the Imperial Legion.

What are the Stormcloaks doing for Military production?Oh right, they're actually giving smiths less business if they're non-Nords. Empire doesn't discriminate, steel from an orc is the same as steel from a Nord.

The Empire is mass producing weapons and armor, that is just one small part of Skyrim, when the Empire gains complete control they will more than likely use every smith. You still have the production in High Rock and Cyrodiil.

 

[Jeremius]

You do not even need to war after the Great War. The Thalmor were just as beaten, and the Empire knew it. Even if they only knew it after the mess in Hammerfell, they knew it, and could have thrown off the shackles at any time. Your Elder Council is corrupt and willing to sell themselves into slavery just for a few years to "Recuperate and rebuild" which they squander on useless stuff instead of full on ramping up production for the "next Great War."

The Empire still had to invade three provinces, so throwing off the 'shackles' any time they wanted?

You think the Empire has been doing nothing the past twenty six years? They placed nearly the entire Imperial army on the Dominion's border preparing for the next outbreak of war. They must have amassed a large enough force if they're on the border to invade Valenwood and Elsweyr. Valenwood alone is one of the hardest provinces to invade, so the Empire must believe they're close to go forward with such a provocative course of action.

Going up in Military production? Smith in Solitude all he makes is weapons and armor for the Imperial Legion, the smith in Whiterun is given a large order to create weapons for the Imperial Legion.

What are the Stormcloaks doing for Military production?Oh right, they're actually giving smiths less business if they're non-Nords. Empire doesn't discriminate, steel from an orc is the same as steel from a Nord.

The Empire is mass producing weapons and armor, that is just one small part of Skyrim, when the Empire gains complete control they will more than likely use every smith. You still have the production in High Rock and Cyrodiil.

And how many men are being outfitted with those weapons? Hoe many soldiers are being trained to be the best that the legion will need to not get bested by a group of magic-slinging, milk-drinking elves? I fail to see how weapons is producing an army. if anything, it is producing more mercs that you do not need.

 

[AlmightyGoose]

I, more often than not, join the Stormcloaks. Joining with people who tried to chop off my head doesn't sit well with me.

 

[DrunkenMage]

And how many men are being outfitted with those weapons? Hoe many soldiers are being trained to be the best that the legion will need to not get bested by a group of magic-slinging, milk-drinking elves? I fail to see how weapons is producing an army. if anything, it is producing more mercs that you do not need.

So you mean to tell me, that in all three provinces. No one is joining the Imperial Legions? Also Mercenaries are good, the Empire actually hires large numbers mercenaries. Many are already fighting for the Empire, many mercenaries from the East Empire Company are fighting in the Civil War also.

Even Black Marsh is selling weapons to the Empire.

What are the Stormcloaks doing for training against magic slinging elves? Oh right they shun magic, and wizards. The Empire has Legions of Battlemages.

You have no argument other than grasping at straws.

Edit: The Mede Dynasty has Eighteen numbered Legions, throw in the Shadow Legions (Battlemages), throw in Auxiliary Legions and then throw in a plops load of mercenaries. Then if we're getting further into it, add in the entire West Imperial Navy, throw in mercenary naval ships. The list will go on.

What do the Stormcloaks have, tell me? You want to talk about Military production.

 

[Jeremius]

And how many men are being outfitted with those weapons? Hoe many soldiers are being trained to be the best that the legion will need to not get bested by a group of magic-slinging, milk-drinking elves? I fail to see how weapons is producing an army. if anything, it is producing more mercs that you do not need.

So you mean to tell me, that in all three provinces. No one is joining the Imperial Legions? Also Mercenaries are good, the Empire actually hires large numbers mercenaries. Many are already fighting for the Empire, many mercenaries from the East Empire Company are fighting in the Civil War also.

Even Black Marsh is selling weapons to the Empire.

What are the Stormcloaks doing for training against magic slinging elves? Oh right they shun magic, and wizards. The Empire has Legions of Battlemages.

You have no argument other than grasping at straws.

Edit: The Mede Dynasty has Eighteen numbered Legions, throw in the Shadow Legions (Battlemages), throw in Auxiliary Legions and then throw in a pl*** load of mercenaries. Then if we're getting further into it, add in the entire West Imperial Navy, throw in mercenary naval ships. The list will go on.

What do the Stormcloaks have, tell me? You want to talk about Military production.

I am saying that weapons and armor do not make an army. at best you have an "army" of peasants who "join up" for the free food and money to feed their family.

But I never actually said anything about Stormcloaks. I said a warmonger LIKE Ulfric or Galmar.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I, more often than not, join the Stormcloaks. Joining with people who tried to chop off my head doesn't sit well with me.

True. Though joining the side that practices racial segregation, xenophobia and means to put in place slavery. Doesn't sit well with me.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I am saying that weapons and armor do not make an army. at best you have an "army" of peasants who "join up" for the free food and money to feed their family.

You're really grasping for the straws here, aren't you?

You're right that weapons and armor don't make an army, except a high demand of weapons and armor, generally translates to... Oh I don't know perhaps the need to outfit the soldiers you have and are receiving?

If there was a lack of soldiers, there wouldn't be a huge demand for weapons and armor.

Logic 101, class dismissed.

 

[Jeremius]

I am saying that weapons and armor do not make an army. at best you have an "army" of peasants who "join up" for the free food and money to feed their family.

You're really grasping for the straws here, aren't you?

You're right that weapons and armor don't make an army, except a high demand of weapons and armor, generally translates to... Oh I don't know perhaps the need to outfit the soldiers you have and are receiving?

If there was a lack of soldiers, there wouldn't be a huge demand for weapons and armor.

Logic 101, class dismissed.

Except the legion in Skyrim is in fact a militia. Shows how much effort the legion is recruiting.

maybe in a few hundred years, you guys will finally have had enough of you elven masters telling you what to do and finally get your butts in gear and mass produce that legendary army.

Nords were the ones who crushed the Dominion, by the way. Considering that it was not until the Skyrim legion, likely made up of 70-90% Nords showed up that the Empire started winning those battle the "legions" won.

 

[AlmightyGoose]

I, more often than not, join the Stormcloaks. Joining with people who tried to chop off my head doesn't sit well with me.

True. Though joining the side that practices racial segregation, xenophobia and means to put in place slavery. Doesn't sit well with me.

Fair enough. I have no argument for that. Except, that they don't really want to enslave as much as exile anyone who isn't a nord. The Empire seems to forget that the founders of their "Great Empire" were Nords.