Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[The Laoch]

I don't mean the Legion is half the population. Though you are right, I do have a question that may just be bad memory, are Oblivion cities bigger than the ones in Skyrim? It has been awhile since I have played Oblivion but the cities sort of seemed larger, just wondering if they scaled even further down.

I feel they are about the same except the Imperial City is larger compared to Skyrim's average cities.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The cities are not significantly hurt by the sieges. Rather unrealistic but that's what the game presents to you so you can continue doing city related quests (in contrast to Kvatch in ES IV)
Never happens. While a limited number of NPCs have dialogues that indicate they might leave they are not even remotely equatable to half of the population of Skyrim and, in point of fact, they don't actually leave. The populations remain in Skyrim.

Aside from the rather absurd hyperbole (there are far more than a dozen Thalmor Justiciars in Skyrim unless you're about to embrace the literalism that Raijin tried to cling to in his rather lolable argument about available housing in Windhelm) it's a rather extreme act of intellectual dishonesty to characterize the goals and accomplishments of a successful Stormcloak rebellion in this manner.

The Imperial Legion =/= half the population of Skyrim so I don't even now why you put this out there. The point is that those that supported the Empire don't exodus from the Province. That assertion on your part is simply false.

My reference to Raijin has nothing to do with what he may believe about the actual number of Justiciars. It's that he chose to ignore the fact that the cities are scaled down to make the game playable in one of the arguments he tried to present in this thread. You're claim is no better in that you're also ignoring that scaling is also applicable to certain factions such as the Imperial Legion, the Stormcloaks and the Thalmor Justiciars as well as the overall population and size of Skyrim, unless you think there are far less than a thousand combined Imperial Legionaries and Stormcloaks in Skyrim, that the population of Skyrim is smaller than that of a large township in the real world and that the size of Skyrim is smaller than the state of New Jersey. In point of fact there are over a dozen Thalmor Justiciars at Northwatch Keep which is completely occupied and run by them. Their numbers are significant in the province but ultimately it's not even the main point when you try to emasculate and trivialize what a Stormcloak victory accomplishes and the impact that the presence and authority of the Justiciars played in the misery of the population with such a transparently biased distortion of the same.

Though of course what I said was false and biased, it was more of a joke with the use of the postcards at the end, so you have the upper hand. I can't exactly pull a logical and proper argument from what I said. Unless of course you believe I consider the sending of postcards as a valid method some sort of psychological warfare on part of the Stormcloaks.

 

[Dagmar]

Or do you mean that it would be physically difficult to attack Skyrim without violating said treaties because the closest way to it would be through Hammerfell or Cyrodiil? I can see that being a hassle.

It's not the closest way. As a practical matter it's the only way. If we ignore the literal scaling of the provinces in the games, which logic compels because it would make for a world a fraction of the size of the Earth and completely inconsistent with notions of scale presented by lore documents, the distance between the shores of Summerset Isle and the western most shores of Skyrim can be measured in hundreds of miles and several weeks of sea travel.

A naval armada would not only have to be large enough to carry a massive invasion force on top of the regular crew, but provisions to feed them for well over a month for the trip and initial stages of an invasion. If you want to get an idea about why this approach is untenable as a practical matter I recommend the in-game lore document Report: Disaster at Iolnith as reading material. It shows how poorly a quasi-analogous situation played out for the massive Far East Fleet and Expeditionary Force into Akavir under Uriel V.

 

[Dagmar]

...I do have a question that may just be bad memory, are Oblivion cities bigger than the ones in Skyrim? It has been awhile since I have played Oblivion but the cities sort of seemed larger, just wondering if they scaled even further down.

I'm currently playing Oblivion and with the exception of the Imperial City, the larger capital cities of Skyrim (Solitude, Markarth, Whiterun, Winterhold and Riften) are about the same size as the cities of Oblivion.

 

[Anouck]

But how would a Stormcloak victory be what's best for Skyrim? In seceding from the Empire, it will no longer be under the protection of the White-Gold Concordat (because, yes, although the terms are unfavorable, it has at least temporarily stopped the Aldmeri Dominion from openly attacking everyone in sight). They will regain the right to worship Talos, and Skyrim will truly be a land of the Nords, but how long would that last?

You get me wrong: Do you want the best for skyrim or the best for tamriel? If you choose Skyrim you join the Stormcloaks, if you choose Tamriel you join the legion...

 

[Imperial_Templar]

And why should I pick one over the other? So far neither have shown me that one is better or worse than the other, they both have their bad and good qualities. Many say Stormcloaks because the name sounds cool, but I want to side for a reason, not the name.

I'm a male Khajiit (Destruction mage)

Please help me D:

EDIT: I really want to keep being a mage so does one of them have classes or can I just stay been a mage.

I only started playing 4 days ago and i have never played any other TES.

I sided with the Imperials. They are the only ones not racist. I despise the Thalmor. A Unified Skyrim is the only Skyrim that could defeat the Thalmor. I kill every Thalmor I see, I even killed the ones in Markarth. I at least give the Stormcloaks a chance to defend themselves before I kill them.

 

[ArcaneAuthority]

I believe the Imperials are the better faction, it is clear Ulfrics intentions are purely selfish, whereas the Imperials are simply doing their job to maintain the peace, without the Imperials the Thalmor would obliterate Skryim and the Empire would lose a great deal of support in the war, if another great war was to arise, the Empire would most definitely need Skyrim's help to prevail, just in the same sense that Skyrim would need the help of the Empire.
You would think Ulfric would realise that, without the Empires help, Skyrim would be under the control of elven kind, but i suppose his hatred for the elves has blinded him of the truth.

 

[Imperial_Templar]

I believe the Imperials are the better faction, it is clear Ulfrics intentions are purely selfish, whereas the Imperials are simply doing their job to maintain the peace, without the Imperials the Thalmor would obliterate Skryim and the Empire would lose a great deal of support in the war, if another great war was to arise, the Empire would most definitely need Skyrim's help to prevail, just in the same sense that Skyrim would need the help of the Empire.
You would think Ulfric would realise that, without the Empires help, Skyrim would be under the control of elven kind, but i suppose his hatred for the elves has blinded him of the truth.

My point exactly. Ulfric was a tool. He did not realize that the Empire forbade the Worship of Talos to appease the Thalmor. The Empire in reality could care less if Talos were worshiped or not.

 

[Raijin]

It's not a disagreement, it's a fact. In just the first few minutes of the video the author falsely claims that the High King of Skyrim is appointed by the Emperor and that the resistance to the Aldmeri Dominion in Hammerfell is ongoing. I could go on but that in of itself speaks volumes about the ignorance of the author of the video and the resulting fallacies in reasoning that permeate the video.

While some information is partial wrong some of what it's being presented are corrected.

 

[Raijin]

We all know Raijin would have us believe the Thalmor are there in the thousands, while you do see them on the roads, you rarely see them in large numbers unless at the embassy, so I wouldn't count their numbers extremely high.

When did I ever said anything like that? This is new to me. I never once suggested a massive numbers of Thalmor roaming freely in Skyrim. Game mechanics wise theirs not a whole lot of Thalmor out there.

 

[ArcaneAuthority]

My point exactly. Ulfric was a tool. He did not realize that the Empire forbade the Worship of Talos to appease the Thalmor. The Empire in reality could care less if Talos were worshiped or not.

You get this more than most of these people, if it wasn't for the outlaw of talos worship , Skyrim would most likely have been in rubble by the time the dragonborn even appeared on that wagon, and would most likely have been carted by Thalmor instead of the Empire!

 

[Medea]

Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

*which one?

Sorry. Somebody had to do it eventually.

 

[Anouck]

You get this more than most of these people, if it wasn't for the outlaw of talos worship , Skyrim would most likely have been in rubble by the time the dragonborn even appeared on that wagon, and would most likely have been carted by Thalmor instead of the Empire!

I think it's all about pride. Ulfric Stormcloak probably knows that surrendering was the only thing the Empire could do. But Nords, who consider honor and pride a very important part of their being, rather die.
The White Gold Concordat saved Skyrim but that doesn't mean people are glad about the way things turned out. I joined the Legion but I understand the Stormcloaks and their views.

 

[ArcaneAuthority]

At the end of the day, regardless of your playthroughs, the Stormcloaks are a rebellion, destined to be crushed or have their cause lost eventually, the Empire is well, an Empire.. it is the authority and will always prevail.. a band of soldiers with a lost cause don't stand a chance against such an organised supported unit like the Empire.

 

[ArcaneAuthority]

I think it's all about pride. Ulfric Stormcloak probably knows that surrendering was the only thing the Empire could do. But Nords, who consider honor and pride a very important part of their being, rather die.
The White Gold Concordat saved Skyrim but that doesn't mean people are glad about the way things turned out. I joined the Legion but I understand the Stormcloaks and their views.

I understand their views too, but their stupidity is the thing weakening the Empire and in the meantime Skyrim by distracting the Empire in the war, if Ulfric could have learned to set aside his differences with the Empires decisions their would be a much bigger chance of victory against the Aldmeri Dominion!

 

[Anouck]

At the end of the day, regardless of your playthroughs, the Stormcloaks are a rebellion, destined to be crushed or have their cause lost eventually, the Empire is well, an Empire.. it is the authority and will always prevail.. a band of soldiers with a lost cause don't stand a chance against such an organised supported unit like the Empire.

The Empire is not as strong as it used to be

There is a theory that the Aldmeri Dominion is glad with the Stormcloaks because the civil war weakens the Empire. And a weak Empire is a defenseless one.

 

[Anouck]

I understand their views too, but their stupidity is the thing weakening the Empire and in the meantime Skyrim by distracting the Empire in the war, if Ulfric could have learned to set aside his differences with the Empires decisions their would be a much bigger chance of victory against the Aldmeri Dominion!

I agree with you.
That's why I think Ulfric only cares about Ulfric. I think he's smart enough to know what's the best way to keep the Dominion out of Skyrim. But that way involves the Legion and no personal glory for Ulfric..

 

[ArcaneAuthority]

The Empire is not as strong as it used to be

There is a theory that the Aldmeri Dominion is glad with the Stormcloaks because the civil war weakens the Empire. And a weak Empire is a defenseless one.

I agree, it is most definitely not as strong as it was in the time of the oblivion crisis, all the more reason to set aside their differences and support each other at least until the end of the war with the Aldmeri Dominion.. i could have guessed the Thalmor were pleased with the Civil war.. as they are the only faction in skyrim that actually gets an advantage from it.

 

[ArcaneAuthority]

I agree with you.
That's why I think Ulfric only cares about Ulfric. I think he's smart enough to know what's the best way to keep the Dominion out of Skyrim. But that way involves the Legion and no personal glory for Ulfric..

I agree, he did fight in the Great War, perhaps he seeks glory that he did not obtain in said war? i don't know, at the end of the day he is a selfish man, single-handedly offering the Aldmeri Dominion victory on a plate due to his actions.. thankfully in my playthrough, i cut him down like the dog he was, and even ignored General Tullius's orders to use his sword, and used my own, plops got personal with me and old Ulfric!

 

[Anouck]

I agree, he did fight in the Great War, perhaps he seeks glory that he did not obtain in said war? i don't know, at the end of the day he is a selfish man, single-handedly offering the Aldmeri Dominion victory on a plate due to his actions.. thankfully in my playthrough, i cut him down like the dog he was, and even ignored General Tullius's orders to use his sword, and used my own, pl*** got personal with me and old Ulfric!

I shouted Ulfric to death, like he did with Torygg