Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Jeremius]

Implying that building a house is as easy and inexpensive as making a batch of pancakes.

Jeremius, pull your head out of your ass and talk some sense.

I do not like what is going on in windhelm as much as the next guy, But I resigned myself to the fact that that is how things are in Windhelm unless I join the legion, which I have stated before, all the reasons given here are made to sound like Ulfric did those things to the posters personally. I say, if you do not like what is going on, stay away from the Stormcloak HQ.

 

[Mr1cammando]

I do not like what is going on in windhelm as much as the next guy, But I resigned myself to the fact that that is how things are in Windhelm unless I join the legion, which I have stated before, all the reasons given here are made to sound like Ulfric did those things to the posters personally. I say, if you do not like what is going on, stay away from the Stormcloak HQ.

And, like the logical person you are, decided that they should just up and build some godamn new houses. Wouldn't it just be easier to let the Dunmer leave their district and enforce a higher pay?

 

[Balerion Blackdread]

I do not like what is going on in windhelm as much as the next guy, But I resigned myself to the fact that that is how things are....

"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - attributed to Edmund Burke

"In Germany, they first came for the gypsies, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a gypsy. Then they came for the Bolsheviks, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Bolshevik. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics. I didn't speak up then because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me....
.....and there was no one left to speak up." - Martin Niemoller

“If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now...... when?” - Hillel

 

[Jeremius]

And, like the logical person you are, decided that they should just up and build some godamn new houses. Wouldn't it just be easier to let the Dunmer leave their district and enforce a higher pay?

I was talking about the people in this thread that hate what is going on in Windhelm, don't like don't go there.

Plus, If the elves don't actually get up and do something, I do not see how saying this should happen or that should will help.

 

[Bogs]

Same way the Aldmeri Dominion did so against the Empire when the Dominion was full of Blades spies. Kill the spies first.

hehe, yeah that is the most obvious answer, locating all of the Thalmor would be a problem I would think. Makes me think though, if most of the Legion is stationed on the Dominion's border (Valenwood, Elsweyr?) what part will Argonia play? I suppose the situation gets much worse if Skyrim becomes independant as that would leave only High Rock and Cyrodiil in the Empire, not to mention no common border connecting the two.

 

[Jeremius]

"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - attributed to Edmund Burke

"In Germany, they first came for the gypsies, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a gypsy. Then they came for the Bolsheviks, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Bolshevik. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics. I didn't speak up then because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me....
.....and there was no one left to speak up." - Martin Niemoller

“If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now...... when?” - Hillel

Listen, the Dunmer are the ones who aren't doing anything. If they REALLY wanted change, then why don't they offer to help protect Eastmarch, to replace the guard that are off to war? or go out as mercenaries or something other than, "Oh woe is me, I am being treated like dung and have no will to change it myself, I need someone to change things for me."hange starts with a

change starts with a desire to do something, not just a complaint.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

Listen, the Dunmer are the ones who aren't doing anything. If they REALLY wanted change, then why don't they offer to help protect Eastmarch, to replace the guard that are off to war? or go out as mercenaries or something other than, "Oh woe is me, I am being treated like dung and have no will to change it myself, I need someone to change things for me."

The holds laws keep them in a second class position. And they fled the eruption of Red Mountain. They were seeking sanctuary, not a war. Of course they should contribute and prove themselves worthy, but it simply isn't their fight. That doesn't mean they won't farm or craft or do various jobs of value.

 

[Jeremius]

The holds laws keep them in a second class position. And they fled the eruption of Red Mountain. They were seeking sanctuary, not a war. Of course they should contribute and prove themselves worthy, but it simply isn't their fight. That doesn't mean they won't farm or craft or do various jobs of value.

I was talking more along the lines of "Our people want this, and are prepared to offer this in return." Not joining the army itself, but like some volunteer guards in exchange for a little more respect.

People like Ulfric won't do anything unless there is something in it for him, Bear of Markarth is an example of that. this war is an example of it.

 

[Raijin]

Listen, the Dunmer are the ones who aren't doing anything. If they REALLY wanted change, then why don't they offer to help protect Eastmarch, to replace the guard that are off to war? or go out as mercenaries or something other than, "Oh woe is me, I am being treated like dung and have no will to change it myself, I need someone to change things for me."hange starts with a

change starts with a desire to do something, not just a complaint.

The Dark elves has no intentions whatsoever in helping out the people of Eastmarch. Look how one of the Dark elves, The owner of the Tavern, shows little to no remorse to the woman Nord that was recently murdered. Unless if it was another Dark elf he can careless about it... even if they support their kind.

Rolff Stone-Fist has a point in his argument. The Dark elves hasn't done anything to help Skyrim's freedom from a weaken Empire.

Rolff: "They're parasites. They're living our city, under our protection, but what do they do for us? Nothing!"

Perhaps if the Dark elves help contruibe to the cause then maybe the local nords would think differently of them.

 

[Raijin]

The holds laws keep them in a second class position. And they fled the eruption of Red Mountain. They were seeking sanctuary, not a war. Of course they should contribute and prove themselves worthy, but it simply isn't their fight. That doesn't mean they won't farm or craft or do various jobs of value.

The Dark elves are busy worshiping the Empire in Windhelm (The HQ of the Stormcloaks) in their secret empire shrine in their tavern rather than to actually help out. Is it no wonder they get treated badly? Perhaps Rolff is right about them being an Imperial spies.

 

[Jeremius]

The Dark elves are busy worshiping the Empire in Windhelm (The HQ of the Stormcloaks) in their secret empire shrine in their tavern rather than to actually help out. Is it no wonder they get treated badly? Perhaps Rolff is right about them being an Imperial spies.

Or it could mean that particular Dark Elf is a former legion soldier and wants to never forget his service. Thought of that?

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

Has anyone here ever reconsider the notion that the reason why theirs segregation in Windhelm is to perhaps to avoid a conflict between races? If you look at the lore you soon realize that their was a conflict going on between both the Dunmer and the Argonians.

4E 6 — The Argonians invade southern Morrowind after the eruption of Red Mountain.


Pocket Guide to the Empire, 1st Edition/Morrowind


Brunwulf Free-Winter mentions that the Argonians must remain outside of the city simply for their own safety. He didn't get into a specific details, but perhaps the large part of it is because theirs bad blood between the Dunmers and the Argonians.

This is nothing but an assumption, and considering how the segregation serves only to create further disdain and hatred between the races it's also a fallacious assumption. This also negates the fact that conditions are terrible for the Dunmer, and whether or not it's because they support Ulfric is besides the point because it's well and clear they don't support him because he's the same man that forces them to live in impoverished filth.

Why would I be willing to die for someone who looks down upon my kind?

 

[Jeremius]

This is nothing but an assumption, and considering how the segregation serves only to create further disdain and hatred between the races it's also a fallacious assumption. This also negates the fact that conditions are terrible for the Dunmer, and whether or not it's because they support Ulfric is besides the point because it's well and clear they don't support him because he's the same man that forces them to live in impoverished filth.

Why would I be willing to die for someone who looks down upon my kind?

Maybe Ulfric would rescind the law if the Dunmer offered something in exchange? and I am not talking about joining the war, but offering, like, volunteer guards or something.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

Maybe Ulfric would rescind the law if the Dunmer offered something in exchange? and I am not talking about joining the war, but offering, like, volunteer guards or something.

Operative word being maybe.

What Ulfric would do is unknown, unclear and not worth fretting over.

 

[Jeremius]

Operative word being maybe.

What Ulfric would do is unknown, unclear and not worth fretting over.

IF past actions are indicators of future ones, then It is likely he would make a deal that benefitted both sides, like back in the Markarth incident, Where Ulfric basically refused to help Ingmund until he got free open talos worship in the rift. And the Civil war, where he frees Skyrim from the fear and the tyranny of the WGC in exchange for becoming high king.

 

[Raijin]

Or it could mean that particular Dark Elf is a former legion soldier and wants to never forget his service. Thought of that?

taken off of Skyrim:Brina Merilis - UESPWiki

Brina: "Divines sake, Skald. Who do you think we're threatening with our old war wounds? We're not soldiers, anymore."
Skald: "Your man Horik is wearing his old Legion armor. What should I make of that?"
Brina: "He's proud of his service, Skald. The Legion taught us loyalty. And we're loyal to Dawnstar."

When you go inside their house, they do not have an Empire shrine the way the Dark elves do in Windhelm... and besides if the Dark elf is a former legion soldier then what is he doing in Windhelm? and if he is truly loyal to the empire then why isn't he wearing his old uniform like what Horik is doing?

After you complete the Rise in the East quest theirs a woman imperial,Adelaisa Vendicci, who walks around windhelm wearing her imperial legion uniform. If you're proud of what you do then you're not afraid to reveal it.

 

[Jeremius]

taken off of Skyrim:Brina Merilis - UESPWiki

Brina: "Divines sake, Skald. Who do you think we're threatening with our old war wounds? We're not soldiers, anymore."
Skald: "Your man Horik is wearing his old Legion armor. What should I make of that?"
Brina: "He's proud of his service, Skald. The Legion taught us loyalty. And we're loyal to Dawnstar."

When you go inside their house, they do not have an Empire shrine the way the Dark elves do in Windhelm... and besides if the Dark elf is a former legion soldier then what is he doing in Windhelm? and if he is truly loyal to the empire then why isn't he wearing his old uniform like what Horik is doing?

After you complete the Rise in the East quest theirs a woman imperial,Adelaisa Vendicci, who walks around windhelm wearing her imperial legion uniform. If you're proud of what you do then you're not afraid to reveal it.

He might not have been proud of some of the things he did, but wants to remember not to make the same mistakes again? and you can be an empire supporter in the Stormcloak HQ, as long as you are quiet about it.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

The Dark elves has no intentions whatsoever in helping out the people of Eastmarch. Look how one of the Dark elves, The owner of the Tavern, shows little to no remorse to the woman Nord that was recently murdered. Unless if it was another Dark elf he can careless about it... even if they support their kind.

Rolff Stone-Fist has a point in his argument. The Dark elves hasn't done anything to help Skyrim's freedom from a weaken Empire.

Rolff: "They're parasites. They're living our city, under our protection, but what do they do for us? Nothing!"

Perhaps if the Dark elves help contruibe to the cause then maybe the local nords would think differently of them.

They have a shop, inn and tavern open to any race who'd care for their services. To not use them and say they do nothing is ridicules.

 

[Raijin]

He might not have been proud of some of the things he did, but wants to remember not to make the same mistakes again? and you can be an empire supporter in the Stormcloak HQ, as long as you are quiet about it.

This is why I hate not having the option to save Roggvir, to which later you can fight with him. At least he wasn't quiet about what he truly believes in.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

IF past actions are indicators of future ones, then It is likely he would make a deal that benefitted both sides, like back in the Markarth incident, Where Ulfric basically refused to help Ingmund until he got free open talos worship in the rift. And the Civil war, where he frees Skyrim from the fear and the tyranny of the WGC in exchange for becoming high king.

Please remember that the WGC was a peace treaty. No fear or tyranny should be involved. The only reason the Empire has to enforce it is because people aren't dying in the Great War anymore.