Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Dagmar]

Execute for High Treason without a Trial. Wow. What a beautiful, flawless Empire you have

What does this irrelevant hollow meaningless statement have to do with the undeniable fact that Ulfric committed High Treason? Here's a newsflash for you, Tamriel isn't Earth. It doesn't observe principles of justice in the current real world. Your notions of due process are inapplicable regardless of whether your mind is incapable of absorbing that fact. Anyone with half a brain and the reading comprehension skills of an average adult can understand that what Ulfric did undeniably irrefutably constitutes High Treason under Imperial Law. Please point out any instance anywhere in Tamriel where the concept of a contemporary right to due process exists in any of the Elder Scrolls series. The Empire is no more flawed in its administration of justice than any other government in Tamriel in over 10 thousand years and even if it were it's completely irrelevant in Ulfric's case. He would have been found guilty of High Treason in any court in the real world if the letter of Imperial Law was applied in a trial.

 

[Dagmar]

Thalmor Headquarters - The Elder Scrolls Wiki

Good to know but still no less irrelevant.

 

[Epic Keith]

I do not deny the fact Ulfric did commit High Treason, but...


"Execute Ulfric Stormcloak, without a trial. The whole of Skyrim would've seen then"
From this quote from Ralof, you can deduce the fact the Empire carries out trials. Now don't start an argument that Ralof is a liar`

You make a good point, but you were merely captured at that point. The Captain ordered your execution after you got off the wagon. Tullius only barely noticed you, and hardly registered your presence. He was more focused on Ulfric than anything.

And how do you know your character had no criminal record?

I'll have to say the same thing. You made a good point. But it still doesn't explain why the Imperials shoved me onto that cart in the first place

There is no Thalmor HQ in Solitude

Good to know but still no less irrelevant.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/73683/2160723-jackiechan_fulloffluff.jpg

 

[Epic Keith]

To be honest this is my face when Dagmar joins the debate

MAY GOD SAVE US ALL

 

[Docta Corvina]

What's the face when I join the debate? I keep being so..overlooked.

Anyway, no need to close this thing down - "Docta Corvina used Phoenix Down on thread". I'll be back for this at my morning break...

 

[Sweet Rolls]

I don't really want to pick but if I had to it'd be the Stormcloak rebellion. Based on what I've heard and seen the Empire seems to be falling and is trying to drag Skyrim down with it. The Dominion is the real ruling empire in Tamriel and the war in Skyrim will lead to the Empire's demise.

Good on the Nords for standing up to a weak empire who can't protect itself but still taxes them, takes away their freedom to worship their most loved God, makes them fight and die for it, pay for a High King to keep everyone brainwashed in to thinking the Empire is strong, and is using Skyrim so the Empire can stay an empire. Skyrim should be free, ruled by a High King who has Skyrim's best interests at heart and wont bow down to anyone no matter how much gold is thrown at him. Skyrim should be independent and peaceful, living happily and trading with neighbouring countries like Hammerfell, living free from the grasp of an empire to weak to rule itself. Skyrim should use its soldiers (probably the best in Tamriel) to fight to protect the country's freedom not keep an empire breathing.

Ulfric is no saint but he is a true Nord and is proud to be leading the fight to free Skyrim and rebuild it to be a strong independent peaceful nation. I support the Stormcloaks and their determination, even if some of them are racist and ignorant.

 

[Sweet Rolls]

Ironically after making us get the crown the Moot is never held. The whole thing becomes a (wait for it) moot point (yes the pun is terrible and fully intended, thank you folks I'll be here all week).

Any way, (spoiler alert) if the war is won by Ulfric he just puts himself on the thrown without holding the Moot, not that it matters as any opposing Jarls have been replaced at that point. If the Imperials win we get the impression that Elisif will become High Queen, but it never actually happens as again, the moot is never held.

In fact finishing the war for either side leaves a few questions in the air. Bethesda could almost release an entire game (DLC idea) resolving the issues.

Ulfric wont just put himself on the throne, he said himself once he won the war (if you play through the Stormcloak side) that he cannot accept the mantle of High King until the Moot declares him so. He's a Nord who respects the traditions of Skyrim

 

[Ritterkreuz]

Ulfric wont just put himself on the throne, he said himself once he won the war (if you play through the Stormcloak side) that he cannot accept the mantle of High King until the Moot declares him so. He's a Nord who respects the traditions of Skyrim

Again though, by the end of that line he's replaced an opposing Jarls with those who would support him. Kind of staking the deck don't you think?

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

I don't really want to pick but if I had to it'd be the Stormcloak rebellion. Based on what I've heard and seen the Empire seems to be falling and is trying to drag Skyrim down with it. The Dominion is the real ruling empire in Tamriel and the war in Skyrim will lead to the Empire's demise.

Good on the Nords for standing up to a weak empire who can't protect itself but still taxes them, takes away their freedom to worship their most loved God, makes them fight and die for it, pay for a High King to keep everyone brainwashed in to thinking the Empire is strong, and is using Skyrim so the Empire can stay an empire. Skyrim should be free, ruled by a High King who has Skyrim's best interests at heart and wont bow down to anyone no matter how much gold is thrown at him. Skyrim should be independent and peaceful, living happily and trading with neighbouring countries like Hammerfell, living free from the grasp of an empire to weak to rule itself. Skyrim should use its soldiers (probably the best in Tamriel) to fight to protect the country's freedom not keep an empire breathing.

Ulfric is no saint but he is a true Nord and is proud to be leading the fight to free Skyrim and rebuild it to be a strong independent peaceful nation. I support the Stormcloaks and their determination, even if some of them are racist and ignorant.

It's not the whole of Skyrim fighting against the Empire, it's the Stormcloaks. A lot of Nords still support the Empire. And when did taxes come into it? And does Ulfric really look like the guy who has Skyrim's best interests? Also, the best warriors in Tamerial are said to be the Redguards, Nords ain't nothing special.

So basically what you are saying, as long as the Nords can worship what god they want, all that racism is A OK.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

It would be interesting to see if there is any correlation between someone's real life Political views, or even religious views and who they supported in the game. I think I smell an idea for a poll

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

It would be interesting to see if there is any correlation between someone's real life Political views, or even religious views and who they supported in the game. I think I smell an idea for a poll

I would do that at your own risk.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

I would do that at your own risk.

Oh I know it would be dangerous, suddenly it would all become personal for people. If someone else is feeling brave then by all means take my idea and run with it.

 

[El Fonz0]

It's not the whole of Skyrim fighting against the Empire, it's the Stormcloaks. A lot of Nords still support the Empire. And when did taxes come into it? And does Ulfric really look like the guy who has Skyrim's best interests? Also, the best warriors in Tamerial are said to be the Redguards, Nords ain't nothing special.

So basically what you are saying, as long as the Nords can worship what god they want, all that racism is A OK.

Seriously, you guys should talk to this one guy on the Elder Scrolls Wiki, named, and I'm not kidding, thedoucheinthenorth, who has quite the expert explanation on just about everything Ulfric and the Stormcloaks do. Here are a few of his points.

The so-called racism that occurs in Windhelm may seem like that due to when you first enter Windhelm, and because of Brunwulf's comments, but why should Ulfric spend extra time and resources on the Dark Elves when they are giving nothing back to the community? Most of them complain and bitch about it. Hlaalu says it perfectly.

The only way to win the Nords' respect is through hard work.

The Stormcloaks have enough to deal with with the War going on, and the Butcher who is quite a problem. They don't have time and resources to contend to some spoiled Dark Elves who want something for nothing. There is also that live-in nanny that the Cruel-Seas have, that Dunmer Bard in the Candlehearth Hall, and the Dunmer sailer, Voldsea.

And about the Argonians, keeping Argonians in the same area as Dark Elves, especially in a city that is clearly torn apart, and not as thriving as Riften, they would tear each other to pieces, which would not be a good thing.

Also, earlier in this thread, someone mentioned some things about crummy neighborhoods and that the only way to make it better was for the people living there standing up and doing something about it. Which is exactly what the Dark Elves should do; stand up and do something about it.

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

Big giant wall of text

I'm not just talking about the conditions in Windhelm, but also how Ulfric conducts himself as a Jarl. Sending aid to only Nords and not doing the same for Non-Nords shows that Ulfric is bad at his job. And it also shows what he can potentially do if he became High King. He's supposed to protect all those living in his Hold, but doesn't.

 

[El Fonz0]

I'm not just talking about the conditions in Windhelm, but also how Ulfric conducts himself as a Jarl. Sending aid to only Nords and not doing the same for Non-Nords shows that Ulfric is bad at his job. And it also shows what he can potentially do if he became High King. He's supposed to protect all those living in his Hold, but doesn't.

And your only source of this is someone who clearly does not like Ulfric. So maybe he's lying to you.

 

[Epic Keith]

Seriously, you guys should talk to this one guy on the Elder Scrolls Wiki, named, and I'm not kidding, thedoucheinthenorth, who has quite the expert explanation on just about everything Ulfric and the Stormcloaks do. Here are a few of his points.

The so-called racism that occurs in Windhelm may seem like that due to when you first enter Windhelm, and because of Brunwulf's comments, but why should Ulfric spend extra time and resources on the Dark Elves when they are giving nothing back to the community? Most of them complain and bitch about it. Hlaalu says it perfectly.

The Stormcloaks have enough to deal with with the War going on, and the Butcher who is quite a problem. They don't have time and resources to contend to some spoiled Dark Elves who want something for nothing. There is also that live-in nanny that the Cruel-Seas have, that Dunmer Bard in the Candlehearth Hall, and the Dunmer sailer, Voldsea.

And about the Argonians, keeping Argonians in the same area as Dark Elves, especially in a city that is clearly torn apart, and not as thriving as Riften, they would tear each other to pieces, which would not be a good thing.

Also, earlier in this thread, someone mentioned some things about crummy neighborhoods and that the only way to make it better was for the people living there standing up and doing something about it. Which is exactly what the Dark Elves should do; stand up and do something about it.

Yes! Finally some reinforcements, and tell thedouchinthenorth he is a boss!

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

And your only source of this is someone who clearly does not like Ulfric. So maybe he's lying to you.

Really? That's the best counterargument you can give? Going by Ulfric's past and his current track record and how his city is, I'd say it isn't hard to believe he would only favor helping Nord Caravans. And why would Bethesda make a NPC lie without giving the player an option to figure out he was lying?

Fail argument is fail.

 

[El Fonz0]

Really? That's the best counterargument you can give? Going by Ulfric's past and his current track record and how his city is, I'd say it isn't hard to believe he would only favor helping Nord Caravans. And why would Bethesda make a NPC lie without giving the player an option to figure out he was lying?

Oh please. Like you know what it's like.

Besides, what villages have you come across that have NO Nords?

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

Oh please. Like you know what it's like.

Besides, what villages have you come across that have NO Nords?

What is like what?

And what towns, cities, and villages have you come across that were all Nord? And what does that have to do with Ulfric doing his job?

 

[Docta Corvina]

It's not even just one NPC who says that Ulfric is disinterested in the plight of the Dark Elves. No one is saying that he has to be enamored with them. No one is saying that the Dark Elves should be entitled to "want something for nothing". To be honest, I STILL do not understand what that argument really means and what exactly anyone thinks they should be doing that they're not. Aside from kissing Stormcloak behind and actively aiding their war effort, that is. Obviously they're making their own way in the city, running the Corner Club, being a nanny, etc. I don't see anyone giving them any handouts - if I've missed that, please do inform me of where to see it happening. I honestly like to be as informed as possible.

It's fine and dandy to say, "Hey there, you live in squalor and abysmal poverty - WORK HARDER!". But until you're there, in those circumstances, busting your ass (or struggling to have even the chance to do so) to little effect because of an overlaying situation compounded by the attitudes of those hostile or at best apathetic to you...well, I can certainly have sympathy for the Dunmer in Windhelm.