Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

I thinnk that Zoblazo is right, but not in the way you think. For me, I think the reason the Dunmer are not involved in the war is because they have no reason to get involved. IT is not about them working or not. Rolff clearly states that he hates them because they refuse to help the rebels, as if he just expected themto join the rebellion just because they live in the rebellion capital. If you want people to help the rebels, appeal to them. With the Dunmer, Racial pride is a good tool.

I have no problem with them not joining the war, that's understandable, it's not their fight. I'm just sick of their complaining to a "plight" that isn't even substantial.


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[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Quite frankly the reason why they're homeless is because they don't get off their lazy asses and get jobs lmao And I wouldn't be throwing that word around if I didn't know what it meant, it's what you guys are doing, just that you don't want to admit it. Want me to stop using that word? Tell your precious leader to stop brainwashing everyone into thinking any outsider doesn't belong in Skyrim and should be shunned into Oblivion. Get out of here you conservative pigs.

He has no problem with other races, obviously if he did he wouldn't want an Elf/Beast/Man other than a Nord in his army.
EDIT: or into his city for that matter

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[Lewsean]

Uhh, the only ones on their high horse are you Stormcloaks, given you put Nords before anyone else as if they're anything special. If you even bothered to properly read our arguments you'd notice no one is asking to give the Dunmers any special treatment or to put them before any other race. Not even the Dunmers themselves. What we ask is that you stop segregating them and stop acting all high and mighty. Stop treating them as petty beings unworthy of sharing the country. That's all there is to it. And quite frankly the reason why no Imperial has ever "acknowledged" that Windhelm is the most "diverse" city in Skyrim is because it's not. And you people have no right bragging about how diverse it is given you can't even properly take care of them. Go travel to any other city and see if it compares. You'll see that we don't discriminate them as trash like you racist scums do. We include them in our cities and treat them as our own, not give them a pl***ty "35%" of our city just so that we can go to sleep at night like you people. We don't throw them in the ghettos and force them to live outside our walls. We don't act like they're not worthy of residing in the lands your oh-so-mighty Talos whom you're supposedly fighting for fought for. You know what, I'm glad I went Imperial, and I was going to give you guys a chance but you've proven to me that you're not fit to rule the country. This argument would go a lot better if you people manned up and stopped being selfish. It was great cutting the flesh of your petty leader and I can't wait to visit Cyrodiil and watch his head adorn the walls of the Imperial city as a sign of our victory

How do we put Nords before everybody else? In case you haven't notice there's homeless Nords in Windhelm whilst Dunmer have homes. I've said this god knows how many times, there is no segregation, you should learn the meaning of the word and then actually take 10 minutes to take a look at the Dunmer (ALL OF THEM) in Windhelm. The whole racist argument is baseless, a racist dictator wouldn't have the race he hates living in his City LOL. All you do is scream 'racist', god damn hippie liberals.

Uhh, the only ones on their high horse are you Stormcloaks, given you put Nords before anyone else as if they're anything special. If you even bothered to properly read our arguments you'd notice no one is asking to give the Dunmers any special treatment or to put them before any other race. Not even the Dunmers themselves. What we ask is that you stop segregating them and stop acting all high and mighty. Stop treating them as petty beings unworthy of sharing the country. That's all there is to it. And quite frankly the reason why no Imperial has ever "acknowledged" that Windhelm is the most "diverse" city in Skyrim is because it's not. And you people have no right bragging about how diverse it is given you can't even properly take care of them. Go travel to any other city and see if it compares. You'll see that we don't discriminate them as trash like you racist scums do. We include them in our cities and treat them as our own, not give them a pl***ty "35%" of our city just so that we can go to sleep at night like you people. We don't throw them in the ghettos and force them to live outside our walls. We don't act like they're not worthy of residing in the lands your oh-so-mighty Talos whom you're supposedly fighting for fought for. You know what, I'm glad I went Imperial, and I was going to give you guys a chance but you've proven to me that you're not fit to rule the country. This argument would go a lot better if you people manned up and stopped being selfish. It was great cutting the flesh of your petty leader and I can't wait to visit Cyrodiil and watch his head adorn the walls of the Imperial city as a sign of our victory

How do we put Nords before everybody else? In case you haven't notice there's homeless Nords in Windhelm whilst Dunmer have homes. I've said this god knows how many times, there is no segregation, you should learn the meaning of the word and then actually take 10 minutes to take a look at the Dunmer (ALL OF THEM) in Windhelm. The whole racist argument is baseless, a racist dictator wouldn't have the race he hates living in his City LOL. All you do is scream 'racist', god damn hippie liberals.

Quite frankly the reason why they're homeless is because they don't get off their lazy asses and get jobs lmao And I wouldn't be throwing that word around if I didn't know what it meant, it's what you guys are doing, just that you don't want to admit it. Want me to stop using that word? Tell your precious leader to stop brainwashing everyone into thinking any outsider doesn't belong in Skyrim and should be shunned into Oblivion. Get out of here you conservative pigs.

Yet Dunmer have jobs.. Tell me, why would a racist ruler allow Dunmer to own houses/busineses before a Nord? A racist who doesn't want any foreigner in Skyrim wouldn't have HALF OF HIS GOD DAMN CITY filled with foreigners. Ignorant hippie liberal douche, once again screaming the word racist without using any common sense.

 

[Jeremius]

I thinnk that Zoblazo is right, but not in the way you think. For me, I think the reason the Dunmer are not involved in the war is because they have no reason to get involved. IT is not about them working or not. Rolff clearly states that he hates them because they refuse to help the rebels, as if he just expected themto join the rebellion just because they live in the rebellion capital. If you want people to help the rebels, appeal to them. With the Dunmer, Racial pride is a good tool.

I have no problem with them not joining the war, that's understandable, it's not their fight. I'm just sick of their complaining to a "plight" that isn't even substantial.


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IT is substantial to them. For practical reasons, would you be okay living in a house with holes in the walls to let the cold air in?

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

IT is substantial to them. For practical reasons, would you be okay living in a house with holes in the walls to let the cold air in?

As long as I have a place to live in, with a fireplace and decent furnishings, as opposed to actually living in the cold, yeah I would. Besides that's fixable on your own you don't need to go crying to the Jarl about it.


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[Jeremius]

IT is substantial to them. For practical reasons, would you be okay living in a house with holes in the walls to let the cold air in?

As long as I have a place to live in, with a fireplace and decent furnishings, as opposed to actually living in the cold, yeah I would. Besides that's fixable on your own you don't need to go crying to the Jarl about it.


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Try saying that when you actually are in the Dunmer's situation. The Dunmer have to LIVE in that trash heap. That can get on anyone's nerves if they live there long enough.

It is one thing to say something without experiencing it (on the outside looking in), and another to say the same thing with the same experiences the people you are talking about have. I cannot say Ulfric is indeed racist, because I have not been in his position. Neither can I say anything about Tulius.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Try saying that when you actually are in the Dunmer's situation. The Dunmer have to LIVE in that trash heap. That can get on anyone's nerves if they live there long enough.

It is one thing to say something without experiencing it (on the outside looking in), and another to say the same thing with the same experiences the people you are talking about have. I cannot say Ulfric is indeed racist, because I have not been in his position. Neither can I say anything about Tulius.

Don't you dare say what I haven't experienced, because I have experienced that in real life. Thats probably why I don't have much sympathy for them, I learned to deal with it. They never did and never will unless they are thoroughly ignored.


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[Ivory]

They never did and never will unless they are thoroughly ignored.

You are so full of crap. Should Mayors and Governors ignore people who live in slums too? Because when you ignore a problem, it gets worse.

You're solution is to ignore a problem until it goes away? Don't try to become a political figure in real life if that's how you see things. You'll destroy your people. Hard.

 

[Jeremius]

Try saying that when you actually are in the Dunmer's situation. The Dunmer have to LIVE in that trash heap. That can get on anyone's nerves if they live there long enough.

It is one thing to say something without experiencing it (on the outside looking in), and another to say the same thing with the same experiences the people you are talking about have. I cannot say Ulfric is indeed racist, because I have not been in his position. Neither can I say anything about Tulius.

Don't you dare say what I haven't experienced, because I have experienced that in real life. Thats probably why I don't have much sympathy for them, I learned to deal with it. They never did and never will unless they are thoroughly ignored.


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Your opinion and mine mean nothing. I wonder why the Dunmer EVER come into this topic, let alone the Grey Quarter. They mean nothing to the larger scheme of things.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

You are so full of crap. Should Mayors and Governors ignore people who live in slums too? Because when you ignore a problem, it gets worse.

You're solution is to ignore a problem until it goes away? Don't try to become a political figure in real life if that's how you see things. You'll destroy your people. Hard.

It's not really anything the Dunmer can't fix themselves, you know. Holes in walls and floorboards are still better than not having floorboards and walls at all


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[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Your opinion and mine mean nothing. I wonder why the Dunmer EVER come into this topic, let alone the Grey Quarter. They mean nothing to the larger scheme of things.

That's fair, but I will still say that the Dunmer aren't justified in their complaints, because everything they complain about they can fix themselves, with a little bit of elbow grease.


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[Raijin]

They're not asking for right away change... They're not even demanding Ulfric hand them every resource, and drop everything. They're asking for basic things to be addressed.

"Well, not yet. The Empire hasn't been in charge for that long, and real change takes time. Still, having a just and honorable man like Brunwulf in charge can only be an improvement. Unlike Ulfric, Brunwulf has shown a great willingness to work with the other races and make us feel more at home here." - Aval Atheron

It isn't hard for their concerns to just be acknowledged. Ignoring them entirely doesn't solve the issue, it creates more issues than it started with.

You further prove my point that the Dunmer's of Windhelm are selfish and egoistical. They believe that their needs goes beyond anyone else. There is a time for everything while theirs the need to halt on any demands until things are cooled down. Why can't the Dunmer practice patience and wait until the civil war is over with before going to Ulfric, and letting him know about the poor condition in the Grayquaters? Ulfric already knows what's going on in the Grey quarters through the consent badgering of Brunwulf Free-Winter, and to be quite frank hes getting a tad bit annoyed with their unrest.

Speaking of Brunwulf Free-Winter. According to the thieves guild Shadowmark on his home

The mark indicates: Loot: Denoting valuables or riches lie inside or nearby.

So while the Dunmers are suffering and living the live in poverty Brunwulf is living the life of luxury, according to the thieves guild, and that is why he is a target for theft to them. If the Dunmer's needs greater attention then why can't Brunwulf sell off his riches and valuables, and use that money to improve the living condition of the Dunmers? After all he shows great compassion to help them... why not use your own wealth to do it?

No they don't. They expect to be treated like any other citizen within Windhelm. Refuse to lend in support? Much of Windhelm don't support the war effort... The Dunmer actually do many services for the city. A) The farm, food goes to the city and to the soldiers. B) They own businesses and make some income, paying taxes which goes into the war. C) They work shipping, bringing in supplies, food, resources and most ironically majority of the money Windhelm sees (Suvaris oversees the operations of Shatter-Shield shipping, more so since the death of Torbjorn's daughter)

Why should a group of people fight for those who treat them as second class citizens? Why should they have to fight at all? They're not soldiers, and have no wish to be killed in a petty Civil War. It is fine when Nords don't fight, but when the Dunmer aren't fighting it is all their fault...

The Thalmor invading Skyrim? Their operations are mainly focused on keeping the Civil War running. "Enthralling Nords" really?... What are they Vampires?

There simply isn't enough Justiciars to take over the entire country. Espionage agents could disrupt and what not, but there is no way the Empire would let an army into Skyrim.

You know the farmer you speak of; Belyn Hlaalu is rather proud of his philosophy. "The best way for us to win the Nords' respect is through hard work." He also comments that the other dark elves in Windhelm complain too much: "Too many dark elves in Windhelm complain about the way we're treated. What good does complaining do?"

Even a Dunmer thinks that his own kind complains too much. This is why Ulfric is ignoring them. Not to ignore the situation, but not to reward those who complain to much. When children complain too much the best way to break the habit is to ignore them.

Like I said before their slowly taking their place in Skyrim. When you engage in battle with them they show their true antagonistic form by yelling out ""Behold the Future! Behold the Thalmor!" This to me is an indication that Skyrim is next on their map to take over, and to steal from the Empire to gain even more power and strength.

No Thalmor aren't vampires... but they make their future plans for the Nords of Skyrim quite known while in battle "Soon all the Nords will be thralls of the Thalmor".

The Dunmer do more in Windhelm than Rolff and many Nords do themselves... As I have just provided above. It has nothing to do with the fact "They do nothing!" it has everything to do with the fact they're Dunmer. Rolff just hates them.

The Dunmer in Windhelm think about themselves because they're having issues due to race. But they all work and provide Windhelm with some kind of service.

Stormcloaks being entirely Nord focused is another issue altogether, because they're seeking to rule the country. There are nine other races living within Skyrim, and the Stormcloaks are doing nothing to try unify Skyrim and those within it. Many of the Stormcloak supporters are quite near xenophobic.

Nords alone won't be able to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion.

The only thing that the Dunmers do in Windhelm is complain about how their not living the life of luxury, and that their "force" to live in the slums. The Dunmer are homesick... not being in Morrowind anymore. They're struggling to adapt live in Skyrim.

Like what Niranye says: http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000cdec6
"The dark elves are too proud and naive to understand the way things truly are, and so they continue to dwell in that slum."

 

[Zoblazo]

How do we put Nords before everybody else? In case you haven't notice there's homeless Nords in Windhelm whilst Dunmer have homes. I've said this god knows how many times, there is no segregation, you should learn the meaning of the word and then actually take 10 minutes to take a look at the Dunmer (ALL OF THEM) in Windhelm. The whole racist argument is baseless, a racist dictator wouldn't have the race he hates living in his City LOL. All you do is scream 'racist', god damn hippie liberals.

How do we put Nords before everybody else? In case you haven't notice there's homeless Nords in Windhelm whilst Dunmer have homes. I've said this god knows how many times, there is no segregation, you should learn the meaning of the word and then actually take 10 minutes to take a look at the Dunmer (ALL OF THEM) in Windhelm. The whole racist argument is baseless, a racist dictator wouldn't have the race he hates living in his City LOL. All you do is scream 'racist', god damn hippie liberals.

Quite frankly the reason why they're homeless is because they don't get off their lazy asses and get jobs lmao And I wouldn't be throwing that word around if I didn't know what it meant, it's what you guys are doing, just that you don't want to admit it. Want me to stop using that word? Tell your precious leader to stop brainwashing everyone into thinking any outsider doesn't belong in Skyrim and should be shunned into Oblivion. Get out of here you conservative pigs.

Yet Dunmer have jobs.. Tell me, why would a racist ruler allow Dunmer to own houses/busineses before a Nord? A racist who doesn't want any foreigner in Skyrim wouldn't have HALF OF HIS GOD DAMN CITY filled with foreigners. Ignorant hippie liberal douche, once again screaming the word racist without using any common sense.

Uhm, did you not read what I said? Obviously Dunmers have jobs since they're not lazy unlike those homeless Nords. Aww, are you mad? Is the wittle puppet mad? LMFAOO

Ya'll's ruler is racist.

I'm right. G'day. MUAH :*

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Uhm, did you not read what I said? Obviously Dunmers have jobs since they're not lazy unlike those homeless Nords. Aww, are you mad? Is the wittle puppet mad? LMFAOO

Ya'll's ruler is racist.

I'm right. G'day. MUAH :*

Not really, like we've said one million times before if he was racist he wouldn't even allow any other race in his Hold let alone his city. Your ruler is a puppet of the Thalmor

I'm right G'day MUAH


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[Jeremius]

How do we put Nords before everybody else? In case you haven't notice there's homeless Nords in Windhelm whilst Dunmer have homes. I've said this god knows how many times, there is no segregation, you should learn the meaning of the word and then actually take 10 minutes to take a look at the Dunmer (ALL OF THEM) in Windhelm. The whole racist argument is baseless, a racist dictator wouldn't have the race he hates living in his City LOL. All you do is scream 'racist', god damn hippie liberals.

How do we put Nords before everybody else? In case you haven't notice there's homeless Nords in Windhelm whilst Dunmer have homes. I've said this god knows how many times, there is no segregation, you should learn the meaning of the word and then actually take 10 minutes to take a look at the Dunmer (ALL OF THEM) in Windhelm. The whole racist argument is baseless, a racist dictator wouldn't have the race he hates living in his City LOL. All you do is scream 'racist', god damn hippie liberals.

Quite frankly the reason why they're homeless is because they don't get off their lazy asses and get jobs lmao And I wouldn't be throwing that word around if I didn't know what it meant, it's what you guys are doing, just that you don't want to admit it. Want me to stop using that word? Tell your precious leader to stop brainwashing everyone into thinking any outsider doesn't belong in Skyrim and should be shunned into Oblivion. Get out of here you conservative pigs.

Yet Dunmer have jobs.. Tell me, why would a racist ruler allow Dunmer to own houses/busineses before a Nord? A racist who doesn't want any foreigner in Skyrim wouldn't have HALF OF HIS GOD DAMN CITY filled with foreigners. Ignorant hippie liberal douche, once again screaming the word racist without using any common sense.

Just going to say, racism is more than just kicking out other races. Ulfric's focus on a Nord/human cause can be seen as racist, due to the fact that he is not pay attention to the needs of the non-Nord/non-human population.

 

[DrunkenMage]

You further prove my point that the Dunmer's of Windhelm are selfish and egoistical. They believe that their needs goes beyond anyone else.

No. They don't believe their needs go above everyone else. They're asking that their needs be addressed, and they're asking for real basic things afforded to any citizen.

There is a time for everything while theirs the need to halt on any demands until things are cooled down. Why can't the Dunmer practice patience and wait until the civil war is over with before going to Ulfric, and letting him know about the poor condition in the Grayquaters?

Changing the name "Gray Quarter" back to "Snow Quarter" I don't see why that requires much effort. They're just asking that Ulfric acknowledges their problems, instead he ignores them.

Ulfric already knows what's going on in the Grey quarters through the consent badgering of Brunwulf Free-Winter, and to be quite frank hes getting a tad bit annoyed with their unrest.

The Argonians have problems with Ulfric too. Unrest can quickly turn into revolt if left unchecked. Especially if those concerned believe they're being racially targeted.

Speaking of Brunwulf Free-Winter. According to the thieves guild Shadowmark on his home

The mark indicates: Loot: Denoting valuables or riches lie inside or nearby.

... Really? That symbol is on many buildings, even in the Gray Quarter if I remember.

So while the Dunmers are suffering and living the live in poverty Brunwulf is living the life of luxury, according to the thieves guild, and that is why he is a target for theft to them.

Everyone is a target for the Thieves Guild... You even rob beggars in the Guild.

If the Dunmer's needs greater attention then why can't Brunwulf sell off his riches and valuables, and use that money to improve the living condition of the Dunmers? After all he shows great compassion to help them... why not use your own wealth to do it?

What wealth? Brunwulf is an ex soldier. He doesn't have thousands upon thousands of Septims to repair the city.

You know the farmer you speak of; Belyn Hlaalu is rather proud of his philosophy. "The best way for us to win the Nords' respect is through hard work." He also comments that the other dark elves in Windhelm complain too much: "Too many dark elves in Windhelm complain about the way we're treated. What good does complaining do?"

Even a Dunmer thinks that his own kind complains too much. This is why Ulfric is ignoring them. Not to ignore the situation, but not to reward those who complain to much. When children complain too much the best way to break the habit is to ignore them.

Yet the Dunmer that actually brings Windhelm majority of the money. Is being bullied by Rolff and threatened with torture or worse.

Like I said before their slowly taking their place in Skyrim. When you engage in battle with them they show their true antagonistic form by yelling out ""Behold the Future! Behold the Thalmor!" This to me is an indication that Skyrim is next on their map to take over, and to steal from the Empire to gain even more power and strength.

And Nords in battle yell that other races don't belong. Why do you even care what the Thalmor shout? They're mostly full of plops anyway.

Also the Civil War effectively weakens Skyrim anyway, chances are either victory Skyrim will be unable to do anything next war.

No Thalmor aren't vampires... but they make their future plans for the Nords of Skyrim quite known while in battle "Soon all the Nords will be thralls of the Thalmor".

You're right Raijin, they're coming to get you. Make it easier for them, kick out the Empire and allow the Thalmor to conduct infiltration and espionage freely.

The only thing that the Dunmers do in Windhelm is complain about how their not living the life of luxury, and that their "force" to live in the slums. The Dunmer are homesick... not being in Morrowind anymore. They're struggling to adapt live in Skyrim.

Show me your source. Where do the Dunmer complain about not living in luxury?

"You've seen how we live -- cramped alleys, run-down buildings, few guard patrols. Even the name 'Gray Quarter' is an insult."

So if you ever complained about poor street conditions, buildings falling apart and few police patrolling through your neighborhood. You're just being a selfish person who just bitches?

Even Nords comment about them being forced to live there.

"The Dark Elves were all forced to live in a slum called the Grey Quarter. The Argonians can't even live inside the walls. They're all stuck out on the docks." - Alfarinn

And he is with no faction allegiance.

Like what Niranye says: http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000cdec6
"The dark elves are too proud and naive to understand the way things truly are, and so they continue to dwell in that slum."

Yes, the Dark Elves should turn to crime and bribe the guards. Being able to smuggle in items for those with coin.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Not really, like we've said one million times before if he was racist he wouldn't even allow any other race in his Hold let alone his city.


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That would be extreme racism. You can be a racist, without being an extremist.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

That would be extreme racism. You can be a racist, without being an extremist.

If he isn't ignoring people that aren't Dunmer and then ignoring Dunmer that would be racist, but he doesn't do that he doesn't give a handou to anyone


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[Zoblazo]

Quite frankly the reason why they're homeless is because they don't get off their lazy asses and get jobs lmao And I wouldn't be throwing that word around if I didn't know what it meant, it's what you guys are doing, just that you don't want to admit it. Want me to stop using that word? Tell your precious leader to stop brainwashing everyone into thinking any outsider doesn't belong in Skyrim and should be shunned into Oblivion. Get out of here you conservative pigs.

Yet Dunmer have jobs.. Tell me, why would a racist ruler allow Dunmer to own houses/busineses before a Nord? A racist who doesn't want any foreigner in Skyrim wouldn't have HALF OF HIS GOD DAMN CITY filled with foreigners. Ignorant hippie liberal douche, once again screaming the word racist without using any common sense.

Just going to say, racism is more than just kicking out other races. Ulfric's focus on a Nord/human cause can be seen as racist, due to the fact that he is not pay attention to the needs of the non-Nord/non-human population.

*Falsetto* Thank you~

 

[Raijin]

Just going to say, racism is more than just kicking out other races. Ulfric's focus on a Nord/human cause can be seen as racist, due to the fact that he is not pay attention to the needs of the non-Nord/non-human population.

So many things can be taken out of context. It totally blows my mind away when I read these debates from here and on other forums.

It's so easy to call a white blonde haired Nord a racist for focusing on human/Nord cause (Thalmor wants to enslave all human race) yet the sounds of crickets spreads when a Dunmer says something racist.

Ulfric is a racist but not the Dunmers? Yet so many Imperial/Empire lovers and supporters wants to victimized the Dunmers by calling Ulfric a racist for not spending highly needed resources for their needs. What is the FRICKEN LOGIC behind this?

I need to remind myself to shave my head prior to coming to this particular thread so I don't damage my hair follicles through physically ripping them out from my scalp from the inconsistent logic that is being spread.